Pest Control - Inspection by Terminix

Author

Inspection by Terminix

LurfysMa

2005-11-02, 3:21 pm

The guy from Terminix was just here. He seemed like a nice guy. Not
pushy or a know-it-all.

He looked at the pellets and the damaged wood, which is exposed by the
remodeling. Here is his opinion:

They are definitely drywood termites. They like wet wood and are
attracted by moisture. So, get rid of moisture and they will go away
or be considerably controlled.

They would probably never do structural damage. If we choose to do
nothing at all, we probably will never have a problem.

The only "cure" is fumigation. That would be 99.99% effective and
should last for 10-15 years. Measuring the house, he came up with
76Kcu ft. That would be about $3,000 - including the detached garage.

Does that sound right?

--
For email, use Usenet-20031220@spamex.com

Lar

2005-11-02, 4:21 pm

In article <bb3im19n55o0g6aij1ce0j2p0lsdvro403@4ax.com>,
invalid@invalid.invalid says...

They are definitely drywood termites. They like wet wood and are

attracted by moisture. So, get rid of moisture and they will go away

or be considerably controlled.

They would probably never do structural damage. If we choose to do

nothing at all, we probably will never have a problem.

The only "cure" is fumigation. That would be 99.99% effective and

should last for 10-15 years. Measuring the house, he came up with

76Kcu ft. That would be about $3,000 - including the detached garage.

Let me premise the statement by that I am in the Dallas areas and have
come across dry wood only 4 times in over 17 years and only one of those
were in structure.....

dry wood termites are what their name implies...they live in dry
wood...if I recall they can get their moisture from wood that has
moisture content as little as 3%. There are different treatment methods
that can be effective.

You might try dropping an email here HawaiiFumigation@aol.com
she could answer thoroughly any question you may have on dry wood
termite work.
--
Lar

to email....get rid of the BUGS

Hawaii Fumigation

2005-11-02, 11:21 pm

The first thing I have to say after reading the original post is my
usual statement: "Misinformation is as dangerous as misapplication".
With that said, much of the information that was offered is entirely
inaccurate. The objective of my reply is to educate you so that you
are empowered to choose the services that are right for you, and to
choose the service provider that is best suited and experienced to meet
your requirements.

1. Drywood termites DO NOT prefer moist wood. They prefer dry wood
(thus their name) and require far less moisture than subteranean
termites.

2. Removing mositure from wood WILL NOT reduce, control or eliminate a
drywood termite infestation.

3. Drywood termites, while not as voracious as subterranean termites,
WILL and CAN cause structural damage, especially to homes comprised of
untreated lumber and/or treated lumber that was cut and not recoated at
the ends.

4. Fumigation is 100% effective IF performed properly. Failed
fumigations are attributable to fumigator error, failure to monitor or
any number of improper procedures. You should inquire with your
fumigator as to what factors would cause a fumigation to fail. I can
assure you that any possible ACCURATE answer he gives you will
ultimately fall square on the shoulders of the fumigator or the
company. NO EXCUSES!

5. Fumigation does not last for 10-15 years. In fact, fumigation is
designed as a treatment method versus a preventive method. The
fumigation process offers no residual mode of action and it leaves no
residue behind. It is strictly intended to eradicate existing
infestations of the target pest.

6. Is $3000 fair for 76 MCF? It depends on how you look at it and
what your expectations are. Overall, it seems like a fair price,
however you must also consider any additional costs you may incur for
annual warranty renewal fees. These are not inexpensive fees. See my
notes below about warranties.

In regard to your previous inquiry about Premise Foam, this is a good
product but it certainly cannot surpass the effectiveness of a properly
conducted fumigation. Efficacy studies on both Premise and Vikane
(fumigant) prove this point. That is not to say that Premise is not an
appropriate choice. In certain situations Premise is the better choice
if an infestation is determined to be minor and isolated and all areas
of infestation have been detected.

Applications of Premise Foam are typically considered as spot
treatments. Spot treatments can be effective, but they are limited to
only those areas where the product is delivered and/or within an area
where infected termites are likely to travel. Obviously, any areas of
termite infestation that have not been detected and treated will go
unabated and will continue to expand, whereas a properly performed
fumigation will provide for 100% eradication throughout the structure,
regardless of whether an infestation was or was not previously
detected.

Warranties are of significant importance when a consumer considers
fumigation and service proposals. A consumer will find that some
companies may not include any type of warranty, while another company
may offer one automatically, and another may offer one at additional
cost. Some warranties provide for spot treatment only, others provide
for refumigation, and then others provide for a combination of both.

It is important to note that some companies include clauses in their
warranty which state (in so many words or similarly) that if termites
are found due to ineffective treatment, the company will refumigate IF
it deems necessary. This is term that a homeowner should carefully
consider. In the event that infestation is found due to ineffective
treatment, the clause ultimately allows the company to say that the
area can be spot treated and that THEY do not deem refumigation to be
necessary.

Further, some warranties include terms that delineate the
disqualification of a warranty. This is often in the form of events or
situations that, if the homeowner creates or allows to occur, will
automatically disqualify the structure from warranty even if fees have
been paid. Unfortunately, many of the disqualifying factors are
commonly commited by homeowners/layperson who simply do not know any
better. In some cases, it almost paves the way for an "easy out" for
the company. In the event that an infestation is discovered due to
ineffective treatment, they could simply find a violating factor on the
property to disqualify the structure from warranty.

The best advice I can give is to read your contract thoroughly and
compare companies comprehensively. Do not expect answers... DEMAND
THEM - you have every right to do so and it is often the key element
that will ensure that you are properly prepared and that your service
expectations are met. Companies that are ill prepared, unable, or
unwilling to answer your questions are the very ones to avoid. Those
who embrace the opportunity to give you a better understanding of the
procedure, reasonable expectations, and limitations are the ones that
are most likely to be there for you throughout the process and well
into the future.

Hope this information helps!

C. Madawi-Plasman
www.hawaiifumigation.com

Lar

2005-11-03, 12:21 am

In article <1130984382.265963.309410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
hawaiifumigation@aol.com says...

The first thing I have to say after reading the original post is my

usual statement: "Misinformation is as dangerous as misapplication".

With that said, much of the information that was offered is entirely

inaccurate. The objective of my reply is to educate you so that you

are empowered to choose the services that are right for you, and to

choose the service provider that is best suited and experienced to meet

your requirements.

1. Drywood termites DO NOT prefer moist wood. They prefer dry wood

(thus their name) and require far less moisture than subteranean

termites.

2. Removing mositure from wood WILL NOT reduce, control or eliminate a

drywood termite infestation.

3. Drywood termites, while not as voracious as subterranean termites,

WILL and CAN cause structural damage, especially to homes comprised of

untreated lumber and/or treated lumber that was cut and not recoated at

the ends.

4. Fumigation is 100% effective IF performed properly. Failed

fumigations are attributable to fumigator error, failure to monitor or

any number of improper procedures. You should inquire with your

fumigator as to what factors would cause a fumigation to fail. I can

assure you that any possible ACCURATE answer he gives you will

ultimately fall square on the shoulders of the fumigator or the

company. NO EXCUSES!

5. Fumigation does not last for 10-15 years. In fact, fumigation is

designed as a treatment method versus a preventive method. The

fumigation process offers no residual mode of action and it leaves no

residue behind. It is strictly intended to eradicate existing

infestations of the target pest.

6. Is $3000 fair for 76 MCF? It depends on how you look at it and

what your expectations are. Overall, it seems like a fair price,

however you must also consider any additional costs you may incur for

annual warranty renewal fees. These are not inexpensive fees. See my

notes below about warranties.

In regard to your previous inquiry about Premise Foam, this is a good

product but it certainly cannot surpass the effectiveness of a properly

conducted fumigation. Efficacy studies on both Premise and Vikane

(fumigant) prove this point. That is not to say that Premise is not an

appropriate choice. In certain situations Premise is the better choice

if an infestation is determined to be minor and isolated and all areas

of infestation have been detected.

Applications of Premise Foam are typically considered as spot

treatments. Spot treatments can be effective, but they are limited to

Ms. C., I get all tingly when you get on a roll....hope all is well in
paradise and have a safe holiday season coming up.
--
Lar

to email....get rid of the BUGS

LurfysMa

2005-11-03, 6:21 pm

On 2 Nov 2005 18:19:42 -0800, "Hawaii Fumigation"
<hawaiifumigation@aol.com> wrote:

>The first thing I have to say after reading the original post is my
>usual statement: "Misinformation is as dangerous as misapplication".
>With that said, much of the information that was offered is entirely
>inaccurate. The objective of my reply is to educate you so that you
>are empowered to choose the services that are right for you, and to
>choose the service provider that is best suited and experienced to meet
>your requirements.
>
>1. Drywood termites DO NOT prefer moist wood. They prefer dry wood
>(thus their name) and require far less moisture than subteranean
>termites.
>
>2. Removing mositure from wood WILL NOT reduce, control or eliminate a
>drywood termite infestation.
>
>3. Drywood termites, while not as voracious as subterranean termites,
>WILL and CAN cause structural damage, especially to homes comprised of
>untreated lumber and/or treated lumber that was cut and not recoated at
>the ends.
>
>4. Fumigation is 100% effective IF performed properly. Failed
>fumigations are attributable to fumigator error, failure to monitor or
>any number of improper procedures. You should inquire with your
>fumigator as to what factors would cause a fumigation to fail. I can
>assure you that any possible ACCURATE answer he gives you will
>ultimately fall square on the shoulders of the fumigator or the
>company. NO EXCUSES!
>
>5. Fumigation does not last for 10-15 years. In fact, fumigation is
>designed as a treatment method versus a preventive method. The
>fumigation process offers no residual mode of action and it leaves no
>residue behind. It is strictly intended to eradicate existing
>infestations of the target pest.
>
>6. Is $3000 fair for 76 MCF? It depends on how you look at it and
>what your expectations are. Overall, it seems like a fair price,
>however you must also consider any additional costs you may incur for
>annual warranty renewal fees. These are not inexpensive fees. See my
>notes below about warranties.
>
>In regard to your previous inquiry about Premise Foam, this is a good
>product but it certainly cannot surpass the effectiveness of a properly
>conducted fumigation. Efficacy studies on both Premise and Vikane
>(fumigant) prove this point. That is not to say that Premise is not an
>appropriate choice. In certain situations Premise is the better choice
>if an infestation is determined to be minor and isolated and all areas
>of infestation have been detected.
>
>Applications of Premise Foam are typically considered as spot
>treatments. Spot treatments can be effective, but they are limited to
>only those areas where the product is delivered and/or within an area
>where infected termites are likely to travel. Obviously, any areas of
>termite infestation that have not been detected and treated will go
>unabated and will continue to expand, whereas a properly performed
>fumigation will provide for 100% eradication throughout the structure,
>regardless of whether an infestation was or was not previously
>detected.
>
>Warranties are of significant importance when a consumer considers
>fumigation and service proposals. A consumer will find that some
>companies may not include any type of warranty, while another company
>may offer one automatically, and another may offer one at additional
>cost. Some warranties provide for spot treatment only, others provide
>for refumigation, and then others provide for a combination of both.
>
>It is important to note that some companies include clauses in their
>warranty which state (in so many words or similarly) that if termites
>are found due to ineffective treatment, the company will refumigate IF
>it deems necessary. This is term that a homeowner should carefully
>consider. In the event that infestation is found due to ineffective
>treatment, the clause ultimately allows the company to say that the
>area can be spot treated and that THEY do not deem refumigation to be
>necessary.
>
>Further, some warranties include terms that delineate the
>disqualification of a warranty. This is often in the form of events or
>situations that, if the homeowner creates or allows to occur, will
>automatically disqualify the structure from warranty even if fees have
>been paid. Unfortunately, many of the disqualifying factors are
>commonly commited by homeowners/layperson who simply do not know any
>better. In some cases, it almost paves the way for an "easy out" for
>the company. In the event that an infestation is discovered due to
>ineffective treatment, they could simply find a violating factor on the
>property to disqualify the structure from warranty.
>
>The best advice I can give is to read your contract thoroughly and
>compare companies comprehensively. Do not expect answers... DEMAND
>THEM - you have every right to do so and it is often the key element
>that will ensure that you are properly prepared and that your service
>expectations are met. Companies that are ill prepared, unable, or
>unwilling to answer your questions are the very ones to avoid. Those
>who embrace the opportunity to give you a better understanding of the
>procedure, reasonable expectations, and limitations are the ones that
>are most likely to be there for you throughout the process and well
>into the future.
>
>Hope this information helps!
>
>C. Madawi-Plasman
>www.hawaiifumigation.com

Wow. Thanks for all that detail.

It sounds like the Terminix guy did not have many of his basic facts
straight. Certainly does not induce confidence in his recommendations.

I have another company coming tomorrow and a third on Monday. I guess
we'll see.

Here's one thing that bothers me about all of this.

The remodelers pulled back the stucco from two corners and found
termites in one. It seems unlikely that we happened to hit the only
infestation just by chance. There are clearly pellets in the
(detahced) garage. So there is very likely, I would think, that there
are termites in other parts of the house.

This house was built in 1940 -- 65 years old. I am fairly sure it has
never been treated for termites other than some spraying. For sure not
in the last 30 years.

There are thousands of homes in this very highly developed area. Many
of them are as old or older than ours. Most of them have never been
fumigated. They are not falling down. None of my friends have ever had
a termite inspection other than when buying or selling. I know because
I asked around for recommendations and referrals.

So I am wondering what can happen if I do nothing? I will treat the
spot we found and replace any damaged wood. But even that is probably
not necessary. The main damage was inside the plywood siding. The
structural members had only minor surface damage.

If termites were causing severe structural damage, I would think there
would be a lot more tenting and a lot more houses falling down. No?

--
For email, use Usenet-20031220@spamex.com

Hawaii Fumigation

2005-11-04, 12:21 am

Yes and no.

In Hawaii, we still have old coffee shacks as well as newer homes.
Many of these old coffee shacks, while severely aged and ugly, are very
sound and have limited termite damage compared to some of the newer
homes. This is often attributable to the age of the structure.

Long ago, lumber was harvested and cured when the timbers were dead and
practically dried out, whereas newer homes incorporate lumber that is
younger and cured differently. Homes with the older style of lumber
offer termites very limited nutrient since most of the nutrient they
seek and need was depleted before/during the harvesting and curing
process. This is not so much the case with today's lumber process.
Lumber bought off the shelves today are still young and nutrient rich.

With booming populations and housing demands, today's society does not
have the luxury of waiting for the natural dying and harvesting of
forest timbers for lumber. Nor does our society have the patience to
wait for the old style of curing processes. Too bad for us. Good for
termites.

If you've spotted more than two areas of activity it is likely that
other infestations exist within the structure. Drywood termites,
however are slow eaters compared to subterranean termites and their
colony number are drastically much smaller as well.

You could definitely attempt spot treatment with something like Premise
if you feel comfortable with that avenue. But just keep in mind that
it is considered a remedial method of control and can't be relied upon
to ensure 100% eradication. Eventually, fumigation will be needed. As
far as structural integrity goes, this would be best determined by a
structural engineer or a home inspector who is licensed and qualified
to render an opinion pertaining to structural integrity.

C. Madawi-Plasman
www.hawaiifumigation.com

entophile

2005-11-04, 9:21 am

Hawaii Fumigation wrote:
> Yes and no.
>
> In Hawaii, we still have old coffee shacks as well as newer homes.
> Many of these old coffee shacks, while severely aged and ugly, are very
> sound and have limited termite damage compared to some of the newer
> homes. This is often attributable to the age of the structure.
>
> Long ago, lumber was harvested and cured when the timbers were dead and
> practically dried out, whereas newer homes incorporate lumber that is
> younger and cured differently. Homes with the older style of lumber
> offer termites very limited nutrient since most of the nutrient they
> seek and need was depleted before/during the harvesting and curing
> process. This is not so much the case with today's lumber process.
> Lumber bought off the shelves today are still young and nutrient rich.
>
>
> With booming populations and housing demands, today's society does not
> have the luxury of waiting for the natural dying and harvesting of
> forest timbers for lumber. Nor does our society have the patience to
> wait for the old style of curing processes. Too bad for us. Good for
> termites.
>
> If you've spotted more than two areas of activity it is likely that
> other infestations exist within the structure. Drywood termites,
> however are slow eaters compared to subterranean termites and their
> colony number are drastically much smaller as well.
>
> You could definitely attempt spot treatment with something like Premise
> if you feel comfortable with that avenue. But just keep in mind that
> it is considered a remedial method of control and can't be relied upon
> to ensure 100% eradication. Eventually, fumigation will be needed. As
> far as structural integrity goes, this would be best determined by a
> structural engineer or a home inspector who is licensed and qualified
> to render an opinion pertaining to structural integrity.
>
> C. Madawi-Plasman
> www.hawaiifumigation.com
>
Where did you get this info from? I've heard of lumber from older trees
having more heartwood and consequently being more resistant to
termites, but I don't see how the curing process would effect feeding
preference...especially for drywood termites.

Hawaii Fumigation

2005-11-04, 3:21 pm

Entophile:

I guess I was not clear. It was not my intent to suggest that the
curing process had any direct effect on termite preference or their
ability to infest. Rather, I was commenting on our society's demands
(in comparison to ready supply) and impatience that leads to a
difference in the kind of lumber incorporated in newer homes versus
older homes (younger versus naturally aged).

The curing process is primarily an exposure of harvested lumber to an
additional drying process (whether through kiln or other moisture
depletion source). I'd think that really dried lumber, whether young
or aged would still be susceptible, especially in locations with
humidity or other means for drywood termites to derive the very small
amounts of moisture they need.

And then, as is the case here, even a home with the oldest lumber is
still susceptible. Drywood termites will eat that wood too if that is
the only option they have found or have.

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