Pest Control - Carpenter Ant Treatment. Was I ripped off?

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Carpenter Ant Treatment. Was I ripped off?

Yank_fan_2965

2005-08-20, 8:21 pm

OK. I have a sunroom attached to the back of my house- it's supported
by a brick pillar at each corner, so there is a space underneath the
room that is somewhat inaccessable.

I recently noticed frass on the sunroom floor underneath a window,
which was coming from the crack between the window trim and the wall. I
swept it up and it reaccumulated in a week = carpenter ants.

I called a pest control company (#1 on Angie's list). Here is what
they did:

1. Sprayed CB DForce TM HPX w/Deltamethrin into the crack along all of
the window trim.

2. Sprayed Phantom (BASF) from a pressurized sprayer all along base of
the walls of the sunroom and all around the perimeter of the house and
garage.

"All" this for $179. It took him about 10 minutes.

As far as I can tell, an entire can of the CB DForce costs $18, and a
bottle of concentrated Phantom (makes 10 gallons) costs $70(he used
about $10 worth of it at the most).

Question 1: Is such a superficial treatment typical when you know there
are ants in the wall?

Question: Should I just buy a non-repellant dust, such as Timbor, and
apply to the wall cavity via small holes. Or is this overkill? Seems
like I should be treating inside the wall.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Hawaii Fumigation

2005-08-21, 3:21 am

When you hired your tech, was it your intention to pay for their time
and the products they use or was it your intention to pay for results?
If, like most people, you secured services with the hope for good
results, you'll need to see what type of results you get before you can
determine if you've been "ripped off".

bugs@bugs.com

2005-08-21, 2:21 pm

On 21-Aug-2005, "Hawaii Fumigation" <hawaiifumigation@aol.com> wrote:

> When you hired your tech, was it your intention to pay for their time
> and the products they use or was it your intention to pay for results?
> If, like most people, you secured services with the hope for good
> results, you'll need to see what type of results you get before you can
> determine if you've been "ripped off".

Exactly. You have to wait to see what the results are before you can say you
were ripped off. The only thing I may have done different, and this is
without seeing the house, is I may have looked outside to see if Termidor
could have been used and added it along with the other products you
mentioned. If you go trying to do things on your own you may do something to
spoil the treatment that has alreadt been performed. I would give it a
couple of weeks at least and see if things get better, if they do then you
will know your money was well spent. If they dont then call the company back
and have them come do an extra service, it should be done at no additional
cost.

--
I wish you all the best
Tim Wise

www.onepest.com
www.askourpros.com

Yank_fan_2965

2005-08-21, 6:21 pm

Thanks to everyone who replied. I suppose I shouldn't have used the
words "ripped off". I mean, even if I was, it's my own damn fault for
not doing enough research beforehand.

Essentially, I am questioning the application of Phantom around the
perimeter of the floor when I told the guy that I never see ants in the
room, with the exception of a few swarmers during the spring. Ants
must walk though this stuff in order to kill them and other ants back
at the nest. So how does spraying where they don't walk help? He did
spray outside on the ground around the sun room, but not around the
crawlspace under it, where the ants could be exiting the sunroom to
forage.

What I wanted to know was whether you guys thought this type of
treatment is usually enough to treat carpenter ants, or whether they
are more resistant and require more treatment, like dusting in the
walls. This is an experience type question that only you guys can
answer. Tim sort of answered it, but not fully. Listen, I know you guys
do not want to bash your colleagues, and I can appreciate that. It's
like trying to get a physician to say another physician did something
wrong. It would be really helpful if you could answer one question:

If you came to a house where it seemed apparent that carpenter ants
were nesting in a wall (and if frass and a few swarmers does not clinch
the diagnosis of carpenter ants nesting in your wall, please correct
me!), would you, in your professional opinion, strart by drilling the
wall and dusting within it, or would you only use a quality spray like
Phantom in the manner that my exterminator did? Thanks again. Sorry
for being so wordy.

Hawaii Fumigation

2005-08-21, 6:21 pm

Yank fan:

I realize that it may seem as though the tech did very little in his
effort to address your problem. Of course you'll have to await the
results, but for the most part it would appear that this treatment was
quite methodical and targeted. It would have been beneficial if your
tech had taken the time to educate you and explain his process. Once a
consumer understands what is being done, how, and why, it opens the
door to empowerment for both consumer and technician.

Ultimately, when your tech applied D-Force HPX he did so with two clear
objectives:

1. Kill the pests on contact if they were close within range of the
liquid trajectory.

2. Flush/fog out any other pests that were not within range of the
liquid projectory.

Once the D-Force dries it leaves a residual behind. However, when a
pest crosses over a residual it does not automatically mean
instantaneous death. They may be able to survive for a short period of
time, enough to where they could make a roundtrip to and from the
colony nest.

As you may know, Phantom is a non-repellant pesticide that offers a
transfer effect. His application of Phantom at the base of the walls
was also designed with two clear objectives:

1. Prevent establishment of a new colony by any pests that had not yet
entered the compromised area

2. Layout a non-repellant residual so that any pests surviving the
D-Force HPX and exiting the colony origin would cross over the Phantom
and carry it back to the colony, thus infecting any remaining survivors
within that colony.

There is a heirarchy within an ant colony. The ants that people see
are only a small portion of the actual colony population. While
foragers are often visible, there is a large portion of the colony that
"lays in wait" and rarely, if ever make their presence known. For
those that lay in wait, their primary objective is to ensure survival
of the species; they maintain the shelter, protect the queen, and care
for the eggs and offspring.

If applications are made to target only the pests we see, the majority
of the colony will continue to survive and eventually, the visible
problem will resurface as the colony continues to reproduce.

With all of that said, the goal of your technician was to provide a
method by which he could target the entire colony. In the event that
his D-Force HPX application is insufficient to reach the nest, he has
created a backup with the Phantom base. And at the same time, the
Phantom base will disable newly entering pests from forming a new
colony.

Overall, it sounds as though your technician used appropriate logic to
address your problem, but again, your results will be the benchmark
sign of how effective that approach was (give it about 2 to 3 weeks to
be fair).

Eradication and control of carpenter ants can be tricky and in some
cases may required more than one attempt. As Tim mentioned above, if
you don't see results within a reasonable amount of time, contact your
technician for a follow-up, which is typically done at no cost (review
your service agreement).

Hope this info helps.

Hawaii Fumigation

2005-08-21, 7:21 pm

Yank fan:

Sorry. I posted my reply above before I caught your most recent post.
To answer your question, typically I would first attempt with
non-repellant residuals. I'd resort to dusting the walls as a 2nd
option if spraying did not produce appropriate results. For extreme
(rare) cases fumigation would be the very last resort because it is a
costly service.

Also, keep in mind that most carpenter ant species are nocturnal so day
time sightings are usually limited. Additionally, carpenter ant PARENT
colonies are often located outdoors while the satellite colonies are
indoors. Typically, both colonies interact and interchange ants. This
is where the perimeter and base treatments would become most effective.

Yank_fan_2965

2005-08-21, 7:21 pm

Hawaii, thanks for your reply.

Lar

2005-08-22, 12:21 am

In article <1124579357.225089.161280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
silver909us@yahoo.com says...

"All" this for $179. It took him about 10 minutes.

As far as I can tell, an entire can of the CB DForce costs $18, and a

bottle of concentrated Phantom (makes 10 gallons) costs $70(he used

about $10 worth of it at the most).
You might of "shopped" around more for a better price. More and more
companies lower there costs of carp ant work because it is no longer all
that tricky a job since the newer products have come out.

Question 1: Is such a superficial treatment typical when you know there

are ants in the wall?

Since termidor/phantom has come the answer is yes.

Question: Should I just buy a non-repellant dust, such as Timbor, and

apply to the wall cavity via small holes. Or is this overkill? Seems

like I should be treating inside the wall.
Timbor won't be a non repellant for you. Overkill probably for the
carp ants but the wall void would be the type of place to apply it for
other insects.
--
Lar

to email....get rid of the BUGS

bugs@bugs.com

2005-08-22, 12:21 am

On 21-Aug-2005, "Yank_fan_2965" <silver909us@yahoo.com> wrote:

> If you came to a house where it seemed apparent that carpenter ants
> were nesting in a wall (and if frass and a few swarmers does not clinch
> the diagnosis of carpenter ants nesting in your wall, please correct
> me!), would you, in your professional opinion, strart by drilling the
> wall and dusting within it, or would you only use a quality spray like
> Phantom in the manner that my exterminator did?

Drill outs for Carpenter Ants are just about a thing of the past, they have
been since the Carpenter Ant baits came out several years ago. Now that
there are Termidor and Phantom they are even more of a thing of the past.
Carpenter ant treatments are normally handled with Phantom on the inside and
Termidor on the outside. I have done one this year where I used dust in a
wall void and the reason was it was on the second floor and Termidor is not
allowed there according to the label, it can only be used 1 foot up and 1
foot out from the structure. So I drilled in one wall void where the frass
was coming out and injected a dust called Drione and it ended the ant
problem on the second floor.

I am not trying to protect another PCO I just think they did a good job and
it will take care of your problem.

I hope this helps somewhat as well.

--
I wish you all the best
Tim Wise

www.onepest.com
www.askourpros.com

Yank_fan_2965

2005-08-22, 2:21 am

Again guys, thanks for the help. I appreciate it.

Hawaii Fumigation

2005-08-22, 2:21 am

Girls too? lol

Yank_fan_2965

2005-08-22, 2:21 am

Yes, of course!

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