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Home > Archive > Pest Control > April 2006 > Minor Termite Problem - Overkill solution?
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Minor Termite Problem - Overkill solution?
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| Don Cohen 2006-03-02, 2:21 pm |
| Hi,
My home is about 25 years old. While doing some other repair work in my
garage, a worked noted what he thought might be termites present in one of
the walls. (He doesn't do pest control, so no incentive to "find"
problems.)
I have had 3 outfits out since then (Orkin, Terminix, and a local company
Mantis PC). All confirm his suspicions, agreeing that termites had at least
been in the walls, but didn't find any evidence of structural damage. Some
live termites were seen near the garage door, and in some landscape timber a
few feet away. The involved wall has backyard on the other side, not a room
in my home.
Some evidence of termites was also found in a loose piece of wood on the
ground in the crawlspace, and old presence in the wood door to the
crawlspace. Nothing else was found.
Recommendations included local treatment under the garage wall (liquid,
foam), removing the solitary piece of wood in the crawlspace, and local
treatment in the area of the crawlspace door. Also recommended was
installation of the bait system around the entire perimeter of the house,
quarterly inspections, etc. Orkin also recommended liquid/trench treatment
along the foundation both within the crawlspace and outside it as well.
Total cost around $1700 to $1900, with annual contract following the first
year for $360 to $400. Linear feet around house is approximately 266.
I guess my main question is whether or not this is overkill treatment, for a
fairly localized problem, of recent onset, with no evidence of structural
involvement/damage either in the garage wall, or anywhere else.
Would local treatment of the known areas be sufficient, or would this be
short-sighted, and risking long-term and more serious problems?
This is my first experience with termites, and I've done a lot of
learning/reading, but don't have prior knowledge and experience to draw on.
Any thoughts, perspectives, recommendations, etc. appreciated.
--
Don Cohen
Photo Website at:
http://www.dlcphoto.com
[Remove the "lens cap" for email]
| |
|
| In article <79idneIDYvqOtJrZRVn-iQ@adelphia.com>, doncohen@lens-
cap.alltel.net says...
 I guess my main question is whether or not this is overkill treatment, for a
fairly localized problem, of recent onset, with no evidence of structural
involvement/damage either in the garage wall, or anywhere else.
Would local treatment of the known areas be sufficient, or would this be
short-sighted, and risking long-term and more serious problems?
This is my first experience with termites, and I've done a lot of
learning/reading, but don't have prior knowledge and experience to draw on.
Any thoughts, perspectives, recommendations, etc. appreciated.
Effective liquid treatment will depend on what products they may use. If
it is the older liquid products, a partial treatment won't protect the
home from termites. It will stop them where they are at, but may push
them to the untreated areas of the home. Maybe within 6 weeks maybe not
until six years no way of knowing. The newer products of Termidor and
Phantom better protect the home on partial treatments, though it would
still be possible for termites to appear in the untreated area, just not
as likely due to the nature of termite activity and the way these
products work. Many companies are now pushing the baiting for different
reasons. It creates a larger treatment cost, generates year round
revenue that was not there 10 years or so ago and greatly cuts labor
costs and risks that were involved in termite work. A win/win for the
companies. You will see companies treat the home with termidor for the
protection, then place bait for the additional revenues. Or see
companies treat only the areas of activity and place baits, knowing when
termites show up again (when ever that may be) they can address the
problem and continue on collecting the premiums for baiting. My personal
preference for the consumer would be to have the home treated with
Termidor and that's all. Impossible to say what is involved in your
house without seeing it, but would guess a perimeter treatment and
treating key areas under the house would be all that is needed for years
of protection. Homes with foundation around 2000 sq ft and less around
the country seem to run around $800-$1000 for treatments and re-
treatment renewals of $100-$150 a year.
--
Lar
Oh, if only Noah would of been a bit more wise,
he surely would of swatted those two flies.
to email....get rid of the BUGS
| |
| Don Cohen 2006-03-02, 3:21 pm |
| Hello Lar,
> Effective liquid treatment will depend on what products they may use.
Orkin was talking about using Phantom; Terminix said Termidor.
> My personal
> preference for the consumer would be to have the home treated with
> Termidor and that's all. Impossible to say what is involved in your
> house without seeing it, but would guess a perimeter treatment and
> treating key areas under the house would be all that is needed for years
> of protection. Homes with foundation around 2000 sq ft and less around
> the country seem to run around $800-$1000 for treatments and re-
> treatment renewals of $100-$150 a year.
This sounds like an interesting option. What exactly do you mean by
"retreatment renewals of $100-$150 a year"? If the initial treatment would
be let's say $1000, what is done on the annual retreatments that it's only
$100 to $150? You're not talking about the baiting type contract with
quarterly inspections, I assume, so I'm not completely clear on what the
annual retreatments would constitute.
--
Don
Photo Website at:
http://www.dlcphotography.net
[Remove the "lens cap" for email]
| |
|
| In article <yfydnSWM-Yx0oZrZRVn-gA@adelphia.com>, doncohen@lens-
cap.alltel.net says...
Hello Lar,
> Effective liquid treatment will depend on what products they may use.
Orkin was talking about using Phantom; Terminix said Termidor.
I have not used Phantom for termite control, but it has surpassed all
claims the distributor made about it for ant and roach control where I
have used it, along with most the P.H.D type that I have heard speak
about it, grades it as high and sometimes higher than Termidor. So
either product should be fine. The problems I see so far is the
companies you have a choice of....... :/
This sounds like an interesting option. What exactly do you mean by
"retreatment renewals of $100-$150 a year"? If the initial treatment would
be let's say $1000, what is done on the annual retreatments that it's only
$100 to $150? You're not talking about the baiting type contract with
quarterly inspections, I assume, so I'm not completely clear on what the
annual retreatments would constitute.
Different parts of the country requires different type of termite
protection, I'm in Texas where the choice is 1. Damage Guarantee (what
Terminix offers), where if termites show up, not only is the problem
area treated again any damage caused by returning termites is paid
for..in theory. I usually get one or two new termite customers a year
that have been with Terminix a number of years and have termite return
and find out Terminix isn't going to repair damage after all.
Apparently lots of loop holes in their contract. or 2. Retreat Only
Contract, what I and most the companies offer where the initial
treatment is done and then after would be an annual inspection. If
termites are found during the inspection or show back up throughout the
year, the area of activity is retreated. The main reason I go this route
is cost savings to the customer. For example, an old Orkin survey
stated that the average damage repair cost across the country was under
$300. (Will assume today it's closer to $500 per repair) Our area
Terminix charges a minimum $2400 on the initial and $350 seems to be the
lower end of the yearly renewals. Most of my initial treatments seem to
run less than $1000 and on the high side the yearly renewal is $150
(have a few on the books at $145, but most are $100-$115) So at those
rates in a 5 year period a customer would of saved $1400 on the initial
and at least another $1000 in the next 5 years.
--
Lar
to email....get rid of the BUGS
| |
| Don Cohen 2006-03-03, 1:21 am |
| Hello Lar,
> I have not used Phantom for termite control, but it has surpassed all
> claims the distributor made about it for ant and roach control where I
> have used it, along with most the P.H.D type that I have heard speak
> about it, grades it as high and sometimes higher than Termidor. So
> either product should be fine. The problems I see so far is the
> companies you have a choice of....... :/
I've started with those because of name recognition. I have no problem
going with a private, smaller, local company per se, but it's harder for me
to know who is/isn't good, reliable, etc.
> Different parts of the country requires different type of termite
> protection,
> snip <
> Most of my initial treatments seem to
> run less than $1000 and on the high side the yearly renewal is $150
> (have a few on the books at $145, but most are $100-$115) So at those
> rates in a 5 year period a customer would of saved $1400 on the initial
> and at least another $1000 in the next 5 years.
Understood and appreciated. It seems that most companies today are oriented
toward maximing their own profit margins, not saving their customers money.
Always good to know this is not universal ;-)
I'm in NC, north of Charlotte. Any suggestions on how to go about finding a
viable option to Orkin/Terminix, while trying to minimize the risk of
dealing with someone who doesn't possess the excellent customer orientation
you describe?
--
Don
Photo Website at:
http://www.dlcphotography.net
[Remove the "lens cap" for email]
| |
| valuepest@gmail.com 2006-03-03, 12:21 pm |
| > I'm in NC, north of Charlotte. Any suggestions on how to go about finding a
> viable option to Orkin/Terminix, while trying to minimize the risk of
> dealing with someone who doesn't possess the excellent customer orientation
> you describe?
Don, you need to call Bob Jones at 1-866-366-8683. He will treat your
home, including installing baits, for only $399. He offers a completely
different service option than your other companies, and he offers a
$25,000 damage warranty. He operates in Charlotte - based in Monroe.
Give him a call.
Also, speaking from personal experience, termite baits are an effective
way to control termites, not just pad the pocketbook. Baits combined
with a local application of a non-repellant product (I MaxxPro,
Premise, Termidor, Phantom) are a very effective way to control termite
populations. Full liquid treatments are old technology, used since the
1950's. Other companies usually charge very high prices for bait
systems, so give Bob a call.
Jeff
| |
|
| In article <6b2dnY09XZksXprZnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@adelphia.com>,
doncohen@lens-cap.alltel.net says...
I'm in NC, north of Charlotte. Any suggestions on how to go about finding a
viable option to Orkin/Terminix, while trying to minimize the risk of
dealing with someone who doesn't possess the excellent customer orientation
you describe?
I know a guy in Monroe I'll get in touch with. If he doesn't get out
your way he may know someone that he would recommend. After you settle
on a name or two you can get better ideas how they operate or know if
there had been any complaints that had to be dealt with by the NC Dept
Of Ag by faxing a request with the names. Fax 919 733 0633
--
Lar
Oh, if only Noah would of been a bit more wise,
he surely would of swatted those two flies.
to email....get rid of the BUGS
| |
| Don Cohen 2006-03-03, 1:21 pm |
| Hi Jeff,
> Don, you need to call Bob Jones at 1-866-366-8683. He will treat your
> home, including installing baits, for only $399. He offers a completely
> different service option than your other companies, and he offers a
> $25,000 damage warranty. He operates in Charlotte - based in Monroe.
> Give him a call.
>
> Also, speaking from personal experience, termite baits are an effective
> way to control termites, not just pad the pocketbook. Baits combined
> with a local application of a non-repellant product (I MaxxPro,
> Premise, Termidor, Phantom) are a very effective way to control termite
> populations. Full liquid treatments are old technology, used since the
> 1950's. Other companies usually charge very high prices for bait
> systems, so give Bob a call.
I appreciate the input. Are you affiliated with him in any way, a customer,
or other connection?
Additional information on his company (how long in business, etc.) also
appreciated.
--
Don
Photo Website at:
http://www.dlcphotography.net
[Remove the "lens cap" for email]
| |
| Don Cohen 2006-03-03, 1:21 pm |
|
> I know a guy in Monroe I'll get in touch with. If he doesn't get out
> your way he may know someone that he would recommend. After you settle
> on a name or two you can get better ideas how they operate or know if
> there had been any complaints that had to be dealt with by the NC Dept
> Of Ag by faxing a request with the names. Fax 919 733 0633
Many thanks. Is the Monroe guy the Bob Jones that the post above
referenced, or somebody else?
Good idea about contacting the NC Dept of Agriculture (or even BBB) for
complaints, issues.
Best,
--
Don
Photo Website at:
http://www.dlcphotography.net
[Remove the "lens cap" for email]
P.S. Just curious - presumably you're in this business full-time? If so,
other than the competition from the big names, what are your main complaints
about the Orkin, Terminix, and similar outfits?
| |
|
| In article <F7Gdnc8XtouL8pXZnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@adelphia.com>,
doncohen@lens-cap.alltel.net says...
Many thanks. Is the Monroe guy the Bob Jones that the post above
referenced,
ummmm no
Good idea about contacting the NC Dept of Agriculture (or even BBB) for
complaints, issues.
--
Lar
Oh, if only Noah would of been a bit more wise,
he surely would of swatted those two flies.
to email....get rid of the BUGS
| |
| valuepest@gmail.com 2006-03-03, 2:21 pm |
| Lar was probably speaking of Keith Lewallen. Bob Jones is owner of
ValuePest in Monroe, NC. I own a franchise of ValuePest in Kansas. Bob
has been in business since the 1980's. Good to call the Ag Dept. and
BBB, but remember that everyone, sooner or later, will face an unhappy
customer or deal with State regulatory issues. Don't fall for the "slam
the competition" stuff that PCO's do to divert you away from another
PCO, just look for a good company with a good price. Bob will take care
of you - he has over 2,500 happy customers now.
Jeff
| |
| Don Cohen 2006-03-03, 3:21 pm |
| Hi Jeff,
> Lar was probably speaking of Keith Lewallen. Bob Jones is owner of
> ValuePest in Monroe, NC. I own a franchise of ValuePest in Kansas. Bob
> has been in business since the 1980's. Good to call the Ag Dept. and
> BBB, but remember that everyone, sooner or later, will face an unhappy
> customer or deal with State regulatory issues. Don't fall for the "slam
> the competition" stuff that PCO's do to divert you away from another
> PCO, just look for a good company with a good price. Bob will take care
> of you - he has over 2,500 happy customers now.
I appreciate the reply and info.
I agree with not unfairly judging any company because of complaints from
others. I'm a physician, and goodness knows there are plenty of baseless
lawsuits made against fully competent physicians. But there are at times
legitimate complaints, and it is helpful to have good info.
I checked BBB about the ValuePest operation in Monroe, and found this:
"Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record
with the Bureau due to failure to respond to one or more complaints and or
two or more otherwise unresolved complaints."
While this is not completely damning, it is of concern to me.
FWIW, I checked on the individual you mentioned. In business since 1993, is
a member of BBB, with 0 complaints in the last 3 years.
What to do...what to do...
--
Don
Photo Website at:
http://www.dlcphotography.net
[Remove the "lens cap" for email]
| |
| valuepest@gmail.com 2006-03-03, 3:21 pm |
| If there is that information, base your decision on what you feel is
best to do. Make sure you get the service you need from whomever you
choose.
| |
| Rodney Marshall 2006-03-04, 12:21 am |
| I would probably go with the perimeter treatment on the exterior, the
treatment of the soil in the crawlspace and eliminate any wood to ground
contact. And make sure you have vents in your crawlspace and all water
runoff systems are working properly. Then you should be ok. Rock
"Don Cohen" <doncohen@lens-cap.alltel.net> wrote in message
news:79idneIDYvqOtJrZRVn-iQ@adelphia.com...
> Hi,
>
> My home is about 25 years old. While doing some other repair work in my
> garage, a worked noted what he thought might be termites present in one of
> the walls. (He doesn't do pest control, so no incentive to "find"
> problems.)
>
> I have had 3 outfits out since then (Orkin, Terminix, and a local company
> Mantis PC). All confirm his suspicions, agreeing that termites had at
least
> been in the walls, but didn't find any evidence of structural damage.
Some
> live termites were seen near the garage door, and in some landscape timber
a
> few feet away. The involved wall has backyard on the other side, not a
room
> in my home.
>
> Some evidence of termites was also found in a loose piece of wood on the
> ground in the crawlspace, and old presence in the wood door to the
> crawlspace. Nothing else was found.
>
> Recommendations included local treatment under the garage wall (liquid,
> foam), removing the solitary piece of wood in the crawlspace, and local
> treatment in the area of the crawlspace door. Also recommended was
> installation of the bait system around the entire perimeter of the house,
> quarterly inspections, etc. Orkin also recommended liquid/trench
treatment
> along the foundation both within the crawlspace and outside it as well.
> Total cost around $1700 to $1900, with annual contract following the first
> year for $360 to $400. Linear feet around house is approximately 266.
>
> I guess my main question is whether or not this is overkill treatment, for
a
> fairly localized problem, of recent onset, with no evidence of structural
> involvement/damage either in the garage wall, or anywhere else.
>
> Would local treatment of the known areas be sufficient, or would this be
> short-sighted, and risking long-term and more serious problems?
>
> This is my first experience with termites, and I've done a lot of
> learning/reading, but don't have prior knowledge and experience to draw
on.
>
> Any thoughts, perspectives, recommendations, etc. appreciated.
>
> --
> Don Cohen
> Photo Website at:
> http://www.dlcphoto.com
>
> [Remove the "lens cap" for email]
>
>
| |
| Don Cohen 2006-03-04, 12:21 am |
| Rock,
>I would probably go with the perimeter treatment on the exterior, the
> treatment of the soil in the crawlspace and eliminate any wood to ground
> contact. And make sure you have vents in your crawlspace and all water
> runoff systems are working properly. Then you should be ok. Rock
That seems to be the direction I'm heading, based on the input here, and the
reading I've been doing. The vents are ok, moisture at acceptable levels in
the crawlspace, so I think I'm ok there.
Appreciate the advice!
--
Don
Photo Website at:
http://www.dlcphotography.net
[Remove the "lens cap" for email]
| |
| bugs@bugs.com 2006-03-13, 9:21 pm |
|
On 3-Mar-2006, "Don Cohen" <doncohen@lens-cap.alltel.net> wrote:
> I'm a physician
Fellas I can't help but respond to this. I have kept my comments to myself
for so long it is about to kill me.
Why does it not surprise me that this guy is a physician? I wonder what he
would do if someone came into his office after waiting in his witing room
for 2 hours and then gets his report that he wants x-rays, ct scans, blood
work, an ekg, and your life history before he will do any minor procedures
on you and he is talking about what we do is overkill? Give me a break. He
needs to have a spot treatment done for a couple hundred dollars and let the
termites continue to work. Evidently he doesn't care about his house or he
would have not hesitated and would have called Bob Jones and had him treat
the house but even at Bob's price he is still waiting. So what if Bob has an
unanswered complaint with the BBB, he called Orkin didn't he, I wonder if he
checked the BBB about them, now there would be an eye opener. Same goes for
Terminix. Bob at Valuepest is squeaky clean when compared to these two
companies. But like I said even with Bob's price this guy waits.
I have to say it if he is anything like 99% of the physicians I know he
thinks he should get it done for free or close to it. When was the last time
he got into a bidding war on his services? I would like for him to respond
to that, how many times do you cut your cost to get a patient, or how many
times does a patient say they don't want to have all the tests you want them
you and you agree and proceed as planned anyway?
--
I wish you all the best
Tim Wise
www.onepest.com
www.askourpros.com
| |
| Don Cohen 2006-03-20, 9:21 pm |
| Tim,
> Why does it not surprise me that this guy is a physician? I wonder what he
> would do if someone came into his office after waiting in his witing room
> for 2 hours and then gets his report that he wants x-rays, ct scans, blood
> work, an ekg, and your life history before he will do any minor procedures
> on you and he is talking about what we do is overkill? Give me a break. He
> needs to have a spot treatment done for a couple hundred dollars and let
> the
> termites continue to work. Evidently he doesn't care about his house or he
> would have not hesitated and would have called Bob Jones and had him treat
> the house but even at Bob's price he is still waiting. So what if Bob has
> an
> unanswered complaint with the BBB, he called Orkin didn't he, I wonder if
> he
> checked the BBB about them, now there would be an eye opener. Same goes
> for
> Terminix. Bob at Valuepest is squeaky clean when compared to these two
> companies. But like I said even with Bob's price this guy waits.
>
> I have to say it if he is anything like 99% of the physicians I know he
> thinks he should get it done for free or close to it. When was the last
> time
> he got into a bidding war on his services? I would like for him to respond
> to that, how many times do you cut your cost to get a patient, or how many
> times does a patient say they don't want to have all the tests you want
> them
> you and you agree and proceed as planned anyway?
Very unfair, and uncalled for, Tim. I posted here as I had no previous
experience dealing with Termites and their treatment, and wanted to
understand more so I could treat the problem in a thorough and
cost-effective manner. It's called "doing your homework." I never accused
anybody of "overkill." I simply asked what treatment was appropriate for my
situation.
I am sure that the termite treatment industry has its share of scoundrels
who take advantage of their customers, just as I will acknowledge that there
are physicians who do the same. Human nature is human nature, regardless of
what profession we are talking about.
I have no problem paying a fair price for the service I need. But I do want
to avoid paying an excessive price, or getting unnecessary services, because
I hadn't done my homework.
As it turns out, I will be doing business with one of the individuals
recommended here, as I found him to be fair, knowledgeable, and
professional, which is all I was looking for.
Your personal attack is simply neither justified nor appropriate. If you've
had experience with dishonest physicians, who recommend unnecessary
services, I am genuinely sorry, and am ashamed that other members of my
profession do not have the same high ethical standards that I expect of
myself, and those with whom I do business.
--
Don
Photo Website at:
http://www.dlcphotography.net
[Remove the "lens cap" for email]
| |
| bugs@bugs.com 2006-04-15, 1:21 am |
| Don I too apologize for being harsh to judge you. I don't know you
personally and shouldn't have judged you from my personal experiences with
other doctors. Let me tell you what has recently happened with some other
doctors that you may understand why I feel as I do. I recently lost my
father, two weeks ago this past Monday in fact and when we took him to the
hospital we told them his entire history. He had had Alzheimer's for 12
years and he had suffered enough, we wanted him made comfortable and
peaceful and allowed to pass without discomfort. So what did the doctors
order for my dad first off a CT scan to find out why his mental state was in
the state it was in, then they ordered blood work every 4 hours and had a
catheter (sp) put in him. His kidneys had already shut down for Gods sake.
The ordered not one but 3 flu swabs on him. Shots every morning in his
stomach of a blood thinner to help thin his blood. They even called in
Physical Therapy to try and come in and rehabilitate him so he could walk
again. He died 4 days later. All of this stuff was against our wishes and
our direct orders to stop it all. The doctors had ordered every bit of it.
They even came in and tried to take blood from him after Hospice had taken
over his care. Hospice put a stop to everything thank God.
Yes I have a very bad taste in my mouth about Doctors and it isn't just over
this situation I could go on and on. I have epilepsy and a doctor in Florida
cost me my job, my means of supporting my family and damn near cost me my
family so I don't have much good to say about the profession. But as a
person I don't know you and I judged you to harshly. For that I apologize. I
hope you dealt with Bob Jones out of Charlotte because he will do a good job
for you and he is a sizeable operation so he will be around for a long time
to service your needs.
What really pisses me off more than anything about Doctors and I will tell
you this and it is just some food for thought, is having an appointment at
say 10:15 and not getting in until 2 or 3 hours later. I used to wait but I
don't anymore and my doctors know I wont wait. My time is just as valuable
as theirs is so the schedule me when they know I can come in and will wait
maybe 15 minutes tops. If I hit the 30 minute mark I walk. Unless the doctor
is a surgeon and is tied up in surgery or has an emergency surgery, but
stacking appointments on top of each other, that is complete BS so why do
you guys do it?
--
I wish you all the best
Tim Wise
www.onepest.com
www.askourpros.com
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