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Help with information on 'termite protection' please
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| Hello,
We have a five year old wood frame/stucco home in Southern Arizona. Termites
are a big problem here, or so "they" say. I have not seen a home tented
yet, though I saw many in my hometown in central California.
Our initial treatment (the one the builder had done) is up and we are being
pressured to retreat and get another 5 year contract. I refuse to go with
the company that did the initial treatment and looked at quite a few
companies. They all do the Sentricon baits, chemical barriers (Premise), or
some combination of the two. Orkin had some serious consumer
complaints when I checked online and with the BBB, so I eliminated them.
Truly Nolen seems okay, they drill a hole every eighteen inches around your
foundation and inject termiticide treatment and then you renew your
"insurance" every year for about $175. Their big treatment is $805, half
the cost of Orkin's, but they do nothing inside the home and Orkin treats
around the plumbing inside.
One company, Five Star, does something different. They drill holes above
the foundation and inject a foam barrier into the walls. They say it
poisons the wood and the termites can't eat it. Of course, all of the
companies badmouth the others and claim their way is the best way.
I should state that there is NO detectible termite activity around our home
and it has been inspected by quite a few companies in the course of my
research.
I have many questions, but my main concern is this: Is this really
necessary, or is the preventative re-treatment and annual "insurance"
renewal fee just a way to bilk consumers out of money? It is better to do
something on your own, or nothing at all and keep watch for any activity? I
don't like having my only source of information come from the people who
have a vested interest in pushing the treatments.
I also don't like the fact that they are going to drill quarter sized holes
every 18" in my newly laid front brick walk and fill them with concrete.
Much thanks for anyone with any insight.
Dawn
| |
|
| In article <128efntii9tjo87@news.supernews.com>, im_out_there_20
@yahoo.com says...
 Hello,
We have a five year old wood frame/stucco home in Southern Arizona. Termites
are a big problem here, or so "they" say. I have not seen a home tented
yet, though I saw many in my hometown in central California.
Tenting a home is for a type of termite that nests in the home itself
mainly done in California, Florida, the Gulf Coast and Hawaii, your new
area probably has subterranean termites where the treatment is in the
soil around and under the home itself.
Our initial treatment (the one the builder had done) is up and we are being
pressured to retreat and get another 5 year contract. I refuse to go with
the company that did the initial treatment and looked at quite a few
companies.
Not sure I would spend the money if termites are not there, guess it
would depend on the cost of the "re treatment". If you go with another
company you will be basically be spending the money as if it was never
done before.
They all do the Sentricon baits, chemical barriers (Premise), or
some combination of the two. Orkin had some serious consumer
complaints when I checked online and with the BBB, so I eliminated them.
Truly Nolen seems okay, they drill a hole every eighteen inches around your
foundation and inject termiticide treatment and then you renew your
"insurance" every year for about $175. Their big treatment is $805, half
the cost of Orkin's, but they do nothing inside the home and Orkin treats
around the plumbing inside.
This is the tricky part trying to decide what is best for your
situation. If a company uses a product called Termidor, you would
probably be OK with an exterior only treatment as long as they are sure
there is no inside activity, any other product I would want to have the
interior plumbing and bath traps treated.
One company, Five Star, does something different. They drill holes above
the foundation and inject a foam barrier into the walls. They say it
poisons the wood and the termites can't eat it. Of course, all of the
companies badmouth the others and claim their way is the best way.
Foaming is just another aid in termite control...it won't make a
treatment any better over another.
I should state that there is NO detectible termite activity around our home
and it has been inspected by quite a few companies in the course of my
research.
I have many questions, but my main concern is this: Is this really
necessary, or is the preventative re-treatment and annual "insurance"
renewal fee just a way to bilk consumers out of money? It is better to do
something on your own, or nothing at all and keep watch for any activity? I
don't like having my only source of information come from the people who
have a vested interest in pushing the treatments.
You can pay for the time of an inspection each year, just means if they
find termites they will try to sell their service to you. Depending on
what was originally used your treatment is probably still effective, I
probably wouldn't spend the money until termites were found and at that
point the way termites work, very little damage if any true damage will
be found. When you decide to treat the home look for a company that
extends the warranty year to year rather than running out in 5
years...probably can do better than $175 a year too.
I also don't like the fact that they are going to drill quarter sized holes
every 18" in my newly laid front brick walk and fill them with concrete.
Actually the label probably says they should be doing it on a 12 inch
stretch.... but 18 won't fail a treatment and I am sure they know their
soil and what works best for them.
--
Lar
| |
|
|
"Lar" <larflu@comcastBUGS.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ef11a05d6a5a2549898d7@netnews.comcast.net...
> In article <128efntii9tjo87@news.supernews.com>, im_out_there_20
> @yahoo.com says...
> Hello,
>
> We have a five year old wood frame/stucco home in Southern Arizona.
> Termites
> are a big problem here, or so "they" say. I have not seen a home
> tented
> yet, though I saw many in my hometown in central California.
>
> Tenting a home is for a type of termite that nests in the home itself
> mainly done in California, Florida, the Gulf Coast and Hawaii, your new
> area probably has subterranean termites where the treatment is in the
> soil around and under the home itself.
I figured that out after doing some more research. We definitely have the
subterranean type.
>
> Our initial treatment (the one the builder had done) is up and we are
> being
> pressured to retreat and get another 5 year contract. I refuse to go
> with
> the company that did the initial treatment and looked at quite a few
> companies.
>
> Not sure I would spend the money if termites are not there, guess it
> would depend on the cost of the "re treatment". If you go with another
> company you will be basically be spending the money as if it was never
> done before.
The company the builder used is going to charge us as if it's never been
done before as well, so we might as well find a company that isn't going to
just use Sentricon. $1500 to insert Sentricon baits around our 2400 sq. ft.
house is a bit steep, IMHO.
>
> They all do the Sentricon baits, chemical barriers (Premise), or
> some combination of the two. Orkin had some serious consumer
> complaints when I checked online and with the BBB, so I eliminated
> them.
> Truly Nolen seems okay, they drill a hole every eighteen inches around
> your
> foundation and inject termiticide treatment and then you renew your
> "insurance" every year for about $175. Their big treatment is $805,
> half
> the cost of Orkin's, but they do nothing inside the home and Orkin
> treats
> around the plumbing inside.
>
> This is the tricky part trying to decide what is best for your
> situation. If a company uses a product called Termidor, you would
> probably be OK with an exterior only treatment as long as they are sure
> there is no inside activity, any other product I would want to have the
> interior plumbing and bath traps treated.
They are not using Termidor, they're using Premise. Is that not a good
product? Perhaps I need to call some more companies because all the ones I
called are using Premise.
>
>
> One company, Five Star, does something different. They drill holes
> above
> the foundation and inject a foam barrier into the walls. They say it
> poisons the wood and the termites can't eat it. Of course, all of the
> companies badmouth the others and claim their way is the best way.
>
> Foaming is just another aid in termite control...it won't make a
> treatment any better over another.
>
We decided against that company because of their terrible track record with
the BBB.
> I should state that there is NO detectible termite activity around our
> home
> and it has been inspected by quite a few companies in the course of my
> research.
> I have many questions, but my main concern is this: Is this really
> necessary, or is the preventative re-treatment and annual "insurance"
> renewal fee just a way to bilk consumers out of money? It is better
> to do
> something on your own, or nothing at all and keep watch for any
> activity? I
> don't like having my only source of information come from the people
> who
> have a vested interest in pushing the treatments.
>
> You can pay for the time of an inspection each year, just means if they
> find termites they will try to sell their service to you. Depending on
> what was originally used your treatment is probably still effective, I
> probably wouldn't spend the money until termites were found and at that
> point the way termites work, very little damage if any true damage will
> be found. When you decide to treat the home look for a company that
> extends the warranty year to year rather than running out in 5
> years...probably can do better than $175 a year too.
They originally used Prevail at .25%, treated the ground under the slab, and
used 328 gallons to cover 3065 sq.ft and 54 linear ft. (all from the
original paperwork--wasn't sure what you would need).
>
> I also don't like the fact that they are going to drill quarter sized
> holes
> every 18" in my newly laid front brick walk and fill them with
> concrete.
>
>
> Actually the label probably says they should be doing it on a 12 inch
> stretch.... but 18 won't fail a treatment and I am sure they know their
> soil and what works best for them.
> --
> Lar
I'm not convinced they do, but I haven't been impressed with any of the
companies I've talked to. I just get this nagging feeling they're in it for
the volume and not to really provide a service.
Thanks so much for your feedback! You've been a huge help. I hope none of
the information I provided changes your opinion that we probably don't need
to do the big treatment now.
Dawn
| |
| gpsman 2006-06-08, 12:21 am |
| Dawn wrote: <brevity snip>
> They originally used Prevail at .25%, treated the ground under the slab, and
> used 328 gallons to cover 3065 sq.ft and 54 linear ft. (all from the
> original paperwork--wasn't sure what you would need).
If those numbers are correct you shouldn't have to worry about
subterranean termites for 10 years (or better) from the date of the
treatment. If the PCO's know this it's no wonder there's such
competition for your business.
-----
- gpsman
| |
| bugs@bugs.com 2006-06-08, 12:21 am |
| Dawn, I got your email and I am working on your request and will have you an
answer shortly by return email.
I want to address a couple of things that Lar has already addressed to you
but I want to just re-affirm what he has said. If you do not have termites
at this point in time I would not spend the money and have a treatment done.
You can call just about any company out on a yearly basis and have your
house checked and some will do it for free some will charge you a small fee,
but whichever it will be much less than a treatment.
The foaming you mentioned will add very little to your treatment and is
really a big selling point. I know when I worked for one of the big
Nationals they sell foaming like it is the end of all ends and their foamers
didn't even work most of the time. There are some times I will use foam
don't get me wrong but I don't ever sell it as a treatment benefit. I just
don't feel it will add that much value to a treatment.
If you do have a treatment I would want it treated with Termidor, Phantom,
or Premise and that is the order I would choose, but others may choose
differently and if they do that's their opinion. I like all three products
and use all three products. They are all great products, they will all kill
termites but from what I have seen Termidor works a little better and the
mode of action, How it works, I like Termidor better.
If you ever do have it treated I would recommend a liquid treatment over the
baits, however there are some great baits being made these days. If you are
looking for a baiting system look at the Advance baits. They are getting
rave reviews. I am getting ready to put them around my own house to test
them out.
Drilling is part of a termite treatment and they may be able to use a
smaller bit if you show them the area you are talking about and tell them
why you don't want the larger holes drilled in it. Usually it takes the
larger holes but at times they may be able to use a smaller one. Remember we
have houses and most of us have wives and understand if you don't want your
sidewalk drilled, our wives wouldn't want them drilled either so we can make
concessions for the wife we can make them for the customers. Talk to your
PCO and see if they are willing to work with you.
12 inches 18 inches it really isn't going to matter like Lar said they know
the soil and what their treatment will require so I wouldn't worry to much
about that. If treating I would however want the plumbing penetrations
treated though.
With that said I will get to your email in the next couple of days so don't
give up on me ok? I am busy right now so please hold on a couple of days.
--
I wish you all the best
Tim Wise
www.onepest.com
www.askourpros.com
| |
|
| In article <128f246ao7iah22@news.supernews.com>, im_out_there_20
@yahoo.com says...
They are not using Termidor, they're using Premise. Is that not a good
product? Perhaps I need to call some more companies because all the ones I
called are using Premise.
Premise is one of the better products but...I have had recalls on homes
I have treated with it before...I have found active termites on homes
that other companies have treated with Premise, while I was doing a WDI
report for real estate transaction...and I have actually treated 3 homes
the last month all had been treated with Premise, one was three years
ago the other two, 4 years ago. Where with termidor I have yet to have a
call back on homes I have treated with it, have yet to find active
termites while doing a WDI report that was previously treated with
Termidor and I have never been called to do termite work on a home that
had been previously treated with termidor.
They originally used Prevail at .25%, treated the ground under the slab, and
used 328 gallons to cover 3065 sq.ft and 54 linear ft. (all from the
original paperwork--wasn't sure what you would need).
Prevail is not one of the top line products, but if they actually used
the amount that they stated I would think you are in good shape....there
is no way to know if after the treatment the soil was disturbed allowing
a break in the treatment, but, I myself would not pay for another
treatment at this time and as gpsman stated, probably not for a number
of years yet.
> I also don't like the fact that they are going to drill quarter sized
> holes
> every 18" in my newly laid front brick walk and fill them with
> concrete.
>
>
I guess I missed this until Tim responded to you, but I don't think I
ever heard of someone drilling a quarter sized hole, the standard
treating rod is 1/2 inch.
--
Lar
| |
| valuepest@gmail.com 2006-06-08, 10:21 am |
| Personally, based on what I have read about the toxicity of the
breakdown by-products, and some comments made by different individuals
supposedly "in the know", I would not allow Termidor to be used around
MY house, and I have stopped using Termidor in my services. But,
understand, that is just me, and <U>in my opinion</U>, would rather
have a product like Premise or IMaxx Pro (same active as Premise) used
near my home.
Usually, termite baits like Sentricon are priced WAY out of line. We
prefer to use a newer bait system - Advance Termite Bait made by
Whitmire Microgen. I use it around hundreds of homes in my area, and
with good success, and I can come in at about 1/2 or 1/3 the cost of
Sentricon.
Use Advance for termite monitoring and elimination after detection. It
will work, but find someone that isn't looking to get rich off your
home.
| |
| valuepest@gmail.com 2006-06-08, 10:21 am |
| Personally, based on what I have read about the toxicity of the
breakdown by-products, and some comments made by different individuals
supposedly "in the know", I would not allow Termidor to be used around
MY house, and I have stopped using Termidor in my services. But,
understand, that is just me, and <U>in my opinion</U>, would rather
have a product like Premise or IMaxx Pro (same active as Premise) used
near my home.
Usually, termite baits like Sentricon are priced WAY out of line. We
prefer to use a newer bait system - Advance Termite Bait made by
Whitmire Microgen. I use it around hundreds of homes in my area, and
with good success, and I can come in at about 1/2 or 1/3 the cost of
Sentricon.
Use Advance for termite monitoring and elimination after detection. It
will work, but find someone that isn't looking to get rich off your
home.
| |
|
|
<bugs@bugs.com> wrote in message
news:dO2dnejc5NmnDBrZnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@adelphia.com...
> Dawn, I got your email and I am working on your request and will have you
> an
> answer shortly by return email.
>
> I want to address a couple of things that Lar has already addressed to you
> but I want to just re-affirm what he has said. If you do not have termites
> at this point in time I would not spend the money and have a treatment
> done.
> You can call just about any company out on a yearly basis and have your
> house checked and some will do it for free some will charge you a small
> fee,
> but whichever it will be much less than a treatment.
>
> The foaming you mentioned will add very little to your treatment and is
> really a big selling point. I know when I worked for one of the big
> Nationals they sell foaming like it is the end of all ends and their
> foamers
> didn't even work most of the time. There are some times I will use foam
> don't get me wrong but I don't ever sell it as a treatment benefit. I just
> don't feel it will add that much value to a treatment.
>
> If you do have a treatment I would want it treated with Termidor, Phantom,
> or Premise and that is the order I would choose, but others may choose
> differently and if they do that's their opinion. I like all three products
> and use all three products. They are all great products, they will all
> kill
> termites but from what I have seen Termidor works a little better and the
> mode of action, How it works, I like Termidor better.
>
> If you ever do have it treated I would recommend a liquid treatment over
> the
> baits, however there are some great baits being made these days. If you
> are
> looking for a baiting system look at the Advance baits. They are getting
> rave reviews. I am getting ready to put them around my own house to test
> them out.
>
> Drilling is part of a termite treatment and they may be able to use a
> smaller bit if you show them the area you are talking about and tell them
> why you don't want the larger holes drilled in it. Usually it takes the
> larger holes but at times they may be able to use a smaller one. Remember
> we
> have houses and most of us have wives and understand if you don't want
> your
> sidewalk drilled, our wives wouldn't want them drilled either so we can
> make
> concessions for the wife we can make them for the customers. Talk to your
> PCO and see if they are willing to work with you.
>
> 12 inches 18 inches it really isn't going to matter like Lar said they
> know
> the soil and what their treatment will require so I wouldn't worry to much
> about that. If treating I would however want the plumbing penetrations
> treated though.
>
> With that said I will get to your email in the next couple of days so
> don't
> give up on me ok? I am busy right now so please hold on a couple of days.
>
> --
> I wish you all the best
> Tim Wise
>
> www.onepest.com
> www.askourpros.com
Thanks so much, Tim. I appreciate you taking the time to help me. We're
going to hold off on treatment for now and focus on eliminating, or at least
greatly reducing, our burgeoning recluse spider population. That should be
fun. No chemicals, just glue traps, cleaning, and lots of vacuuming. I
hear they don't like lemon, either, so that may come into play. I would
still appreciate any company recs you can send me so I'll have them for the
future.
Thanks again!
Dawn
| |
| Happybattles 2006-06-08, 2:21 pm |
|
valuepest@gmail.com wrote:
> Personally, based on what I have read about the toxicity of the
> breakdown by-products, and some comments made by different individuals
> supposedly "in the know", I would not allow Termidor to be used around
> MY house, and I have stopped using Termidor in my services. But,
> understand, that is just me, and <U>in my opinion</U>, would rather
> have a product like Premise or IMaxx Pro (same active as Premise) used
> near my home.
Termidor is a fine product. My company only uses it for ants though,
and it's been a godsend. We use Premise 75 or Premise 2 for our
termite treatments. We stay with Premise, because Bayer used to own
Termidor... and for some reason dropped it to BASF... makes ya' wonder
why.
>
> Usually, termite baits like Sentricon are priced WAY out of line. We
> prefer to use a newer bait system - Advance Termite Bait made by
> Whitmire Microgen. I use it around hundreds of homes in my area, and
> with good success, and I can come in at about 1/2 or 1/3 the cost of
> Sentricon.
My branch has stopped offering baiting altogether. We've learned that
baits are only effective some of the time... not all of the time.
Also, the termites have to find the bait whereas Premise is completely
surrounding the structure.
>
> Use Advance for termite monitoring and elimination after detection. It
> will work, but find someone that isn't looking to get rich off your
> home.
I too would wait until the termites finally show up... but I'll tell
you... Northern Arizona has a serious problem with subterranean AND
drywood termites. As they say, "An ounce of prevention is worth a
pound of cure." Termites can go undetected for many years and can do
some serious damage in that time.
The original poster sounded like they had some termite experience and
knew to look for mud-tubes or pellets. However, since none of us have
x-ray vision, and termites can either fly in or enter through plumbing
traps or cracks in the slab as small as 1/32", you really don't know if
there are termites there until damage is done.
True, damage will be insignificant at first, but if you don't spot them
in time, damage can be severe.
"I have many questions, but my main concern is this: Is this really
necessary, or is the preventative re-treatment and annual "insurance"
renewal fee just a way to bilk consumers out of money?"
Termiticides only last so long. Gone are the days where Chloridane
could protect a home for 30+ years. Re-treatments are necessary if you
want to keep your home termite-free. Research shows that the average
acre of land in AZ has 10-20 individual, geneticly-seperate colonies.
Once one colony is killed, another will take its' place. If its been
5+ years, chances are the termiticide has at least partially worn off.
So - yes, a 5-year retreat is necessary.
Annual fees to maintain a termite contract are necessary too. If you
get plumbing work done, plant anything near your foundation, have a
plant which grows near your foundation, change your landscaping,
remodel your home or various other things, you can BREAK the barrier
proteting your home. If the termites find the break, they're back in
your home. If you don't keep your renewal up, any company would be
happy to charge you full price for treating again. Lets do the math:
For instance:
Initial treatment cost: $1000
Renewal rate: $200
Year 1: $1000
Year 2: $200
Year 3: $200
Year 4: $220 (price increase)
Year 5: $220
Total cost: $1840 for 5 years guarantee.
Homeowner's Insurance: $550/year... and they don't cover termites.
Or, let's say they have to retreat at year 5 and you didn't keep your
guarantee:
Total Cost (with expected price increases): $2200
Insurance is a funny thing. You're betting you will have a fire, while
the insurance company is betting you won't. If you do have a fire, you
win. If you don't, they win. Would you really take the gamble of not
having fire insurance? Of course not!
If you want to avoid paying for termite protection, you should move to
Alaska, which does not have termites. But - they DO have fires
occasionally... so there we are.
| |
|
| In article <1149785415.915332.162940@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
happybattles@yahoo.com says...
and it's been a godsend. We use Premise 75 or Premise 2 for our
termite treatments. We stay with Premise, because Bayer used to own
Termidor... and for some reason dropped it to BASF... makes ya' wonder
why.
When Aventis, the maker of Termidor merged with Bayer, the maker of
Premise, the courts ruled they had to get rid of one of the two
products. Bayer chose to stick with Premise(Imidichloprid) even though
the patent was close to running out, they had much more of the different
markets already covered with it, where Termidor at the time was still
making it's place in the market. Hmm sure there is a better way of
enplaning it than that
--
Lar
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