Heating and air conditioning - Adding a gas furnace to a heat pump

Author

Adding a gas furnace to a heat pump

avpman

2005-10-11, 11:21 pm

I have a split 3 ton heat pump system installed in my house. I want to
add a natural gas furnace to this system so the heat pump will get
"help" from gas when the temperature drops below 30 degrees outside.
What are my options? Can this be done as an "add on" process without
replacing the existing air handler? All info is greatly appreciated!

Noon-Air

2005-10-11, 11:21 pm

"avpman" <avpman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1129080660.376634.174320@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I have a split 3 ton heat pump system installed in my house. I want to
> add a natural gas furnace to this system so the heat pump will get
> "help" from gas when the temperature drops below 30 degrees outside.
> What are my options? Can this be done as an "add on" process without
> replacing the existing air handler? All info is greatly appreciated!

Dude, you need to do some homework and find out how the system components
work...... then insert $$$$$$$$

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-11, 11:21 pm

On 11 Oct 2005 18:31:00 -0700, "avpman" <avpman@comcast.net> wrote:

>I have a split 3 ton heat pump system installed in my house. I want to
>add a natural gas furnace to this system so the heat pump will get
>"help" from gas when the temperature drops below 30 degrees outside.
>What are my options? Can this be done as an "add on" process without
>replacing the existing air handler? All info is greatly appreciated!

alt.home.repair, not here.

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Bubba

2005-10-11, 11:21 pm

gofish@gonefishin.net

2005-10-11, 11:21 pm

On 11 Oct 2005 18:31:00 -0700, "avpman" <avpman@comcast.net> wrote:

>I have a split 3 ton heat pump system installed in my house. I want to
>add a natural gas furnace to this system so the heat pump will get
>"help" from gas when the temperature drops below 30 degrees outside.
>What are my options? Can this be done as an "add on" process without
>replacing the existing air handler? All info is greatly appreciated!

If we can put men on the moon, you can add a new gas furnace to your existing
split heat pump system.......however it would be far more cost effective to
remove your air handler and in its place install a new 92% 2 stage gas furnace.
The existing heat pump coil could be installed in a custom fabricated sheet
metal enclosure that is down stream of the furnace discharge, or you could
purchase a new coil that is designed to fit the new furnace.

Here's a novel idea. Pick up the phone and call 3 local ac contractors to come
to your home and give you a written proposal.

gofish

gofish@gonefishin.net

2005-10-11, 11:21 pm

> alt.home.repair, not here.

why not here?

Is this yet another hvac topic that is over your head?

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-12, 12:21 am

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:14:51 GMT, gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:

>
>
> why not here?
>
> Is this yet another hvac topic that is over your head?

STFU, XXXXXXX.

BTW, your salespitch to the guy was pathetic, just like you.

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

gofish@gonefishin.net

2005-10-12, 12:21 am

>
> STFU, XXXXXXX.
>
LOL so you dont deny it....the topic is WAAAAAY over your head.

HeatMan

2005-10-12, 9:21 am

Read what GoFish said. He's got it right.

"avpman" <avpman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1129080660.376634.174320@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I have a split 3 ton heat pump system installed in my house. I want to
> add a natural gas furnace to this system so the heat pump will get
> "help" from gas when the temperature drops below 30 degrees outside.
> What are my options? Can this be done as an "add on" process without
> replacing the existing air handler? All info is greatly appreciated!
>

Power's Mechanical

2005-10-12, 8:21 pm

Did someone not tell you what "gas" is going to cost this season or
did you drill a hole in the ground and find a "pocket of gas"?
Bubba

xxxx

NG is still going to be cheaper than electric heat strips for back up.
Unless you think electricity is going to go down.

To the OP you will need to do as gofish says.

Bubba

2005-10-12, 9:21 pm

On 12 Oct 2005 16:14:23 -0700, "Power's Mechanical"
<pusher100@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Did someone not tell you what "gas" is going to cost this season or
>did you drill a hole in the ground and find a "pocket of gas"?
>Bubba
>
>xxxx
>
>NG is still going to be cheaper than electric heat strips for back up.
>Unless you think electricity is going to go down.
>
>To the OP you will need to do as gofish says.

Id say Id have to disagree.
In our area, gas is going up 71% this season over last season (already
40%). I even heard one other report say it was going to top out at
125% over last year although I havent found any confirmation on that
one yet.
Im not argueing, Im just saying, I think Im going to have to start
putting some figures together to see which way in this area is going
to be most economical.
On another topic, we did just do the figures on three diff systems in
a home.
100K btu 90 2 stg var gas with 3 ton 12 Seer AC $4100
12 SEER heat pump $3300
27 SEER geothermal $1300
Those are all annual heating/cooling costs of the same home.
The 100k is existing and only a couple yrs old. Guess what is getting
ripped out and what is getting installed?
Bubba

Power's Mechanical

2005-10-12, 11:21 pm

Id say Id have to disagree.
In our area, gas is going up 71% this season over last season (already
40%). I even heard one other report say it was going to top out at
125% over last year although I havent found any confirmation on that
one yet.
Im not argueing, Im just saying, I think Im going to have to start
putting some figures together to see which way in this area is going
to be most economical

xxxx

I havent crunched any numbers but the COP of electric heat is one. NG
is much better than one. In my area NG is going up 40 something
percent.

You can bet your XXX as ng goes up the electric companies will follow
suit even if it means shutting down some power generating stations to
create low supply. You know like the oil companies do. Reduce
refinery capacity and raise the price of gasoline. An internal memo
from Shell oil brags about reducing capacity by 3% and increasing
margins by 48%.

geoman jr

2005-10-13, 12:21 am

"Bubba" <ReMoVeLikealake@iname.com> wrote in message
news:bn6rk15dq0g6735c5gah5pdbrneovcu6po@4ax.com...
> On 12 Oct 2005 16:14:23 -0700, "Power's Mechanical"
> <pusher100@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Id say Id have to disagree.
> In our area, gas is going up 71% this season over last season (already
> 40%). I even heard one other report say it was going to top out at
> 125% over last year although I havent found any confirmation on that
> one yet.
> Im not argueing, Im just saying, I think Im going to have to start
> putting some figures together to see which way in this area is going
> to be most economical.
> On another topic, we did just do the figures on three diff systems in
> a home.
> 100K btu 90 2 stg var gas with 3 ton 12 Seer AC $4100
> 12 SEER heat pump $3300
> 27 SEER geothermal $1300
> Those are all annual heating/cooling costs of the same home.
> The 100k is existing and only a couple yrs old. Guess what is getting
> ripped out and what is getting installed?
> Bubba
>
I gotta agree with you Bubba, if he's on an all electric heat pump rate- no
way is gas gonna be cheaper than electric strip backup. He may think he's
covering all the bases but do you really think ng will come back down----
don't think so. Electric utilities have a lot of unused capacity in the
winter and will be able to hold their pricing structure steadier.

Jake

2005-10-13, 12:21 am

>
> You can bet your XXX as ng goes up the electric companies will follow
> suit even if it means shutting down some power generating stations to
> create low supply. You know like the oil companies do. Reduce
> refinery capacity and raise the price of gasoline. An internal memo
> from Shell oil brags about reducing capacity by 3% and increasing
> margins by 48%.
>

Most electrical utilities are very heavily regulated, unlike oil
companies. "Low supply" is much more harmful to the utility-owned
transmission systems, which is many times more valuable then the hedge
they could get in small price increases. Electrical utilities are not
gonna create a short supply on purpose... there's no profit in it.

Grids that have nuclear plants will fare best, however.

Taking a generator down is a very expensive process... that's why most
utilities keep them spinning even when demand is low... there is almost
always extra capacity, except in the depths of summer.

In Indiana, we've got coal supplemented by nat. gas for generation...
the regulations will let the utilities increase rates somewhat... but
nowhere near nat. gas itself is going.

Electrical utilities are far different from oil companies.

Jake

gofish@gonefishin.net

2005-10-13, 10:21 am

>Most electrical utilities are very heavily regulated, unlike oil
>companies. "Low supply" is much more harmful to the utility-owned
>transmission systems, which is many times more valuable then the hedge
>they could get in small price increases. Electrical utilities are not
>gonna create a short supply on purpose... there's no profit in it.

Obvioously you have not experienced first hand California's de-regulation of the
electrical utilities. If there's no profit in it, why is the state persuing
something like 6 billion dollars in price gouging?

>
>Grids that have nuclear plants will fare best, however.

Even better than hydo-power?

Jake

2005-10-13, 9:21 pm

gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
>
>
> Obvioously you have not experienced first hand California's de-regulation of the
> electrical utilities. If there's no profit in it, why is the state persuing
> something like 6 billion dollars in price gouging?

No, thankfully I have not experienced the craziness that has continued
to go on in California.

There have been a lot of things written about what went wrong with
California's great 'deregulation experiment'. First off... it wasn't
true deregulation. It didn't effect consumers at all until the utilities
were nearly broke. Wholesale deregulation was a major mistake in
California as it discouraged the local utilities from owning and
operating power plants, and legally separated owners of
transmission/distribution systems from each other. California thought it
was a 'cute' idea to buy power from other entities and thus avoid those
nasty pollution spewing generators in-state.

And the generators, the transmission providers and others got rich
selling power to California. In some cases, power that was generated
WITHIN California was 'theoretically' transmitted out of state and then
back in at a profit... all while the local utilities lost money
hand-over-fist.

Just finished reading the book "Conspiracy of Fools", which details what
happened with Enron. Interesting reading, and there is subject matter
specifically dealing with the problems in California and how the inept
Gov. Davis chose to deal with them. I recommend the book.

>
>
> Even better than hydo-power?

Hydro is great... we just don't have a lot of it here. Maybe you guys
can get a big one going on the infamous Los Angeles river (-;.

Jake

PrecisionMachinisT

2005-10-13, 10:21 pm

"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:wGC3f.244115$084.201914@attbi_s22...
> gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
>
> Hydro is great... we just don't have a lot of it here. Maybe you guys
> can get a big one going on the infamous Los Angeles river (-;.
>

BPA raised the rates to ALL customers along the ENTIRE northwest grid in
order to supply them more hydro-power......IOW, California's follies with
'deregulation' appear to have ended up costing ME money, and I live two
fricking states north of there....

Every so often I hear plans about how they would like to appropriate water
from the Columbia and or Willamette rivers for use as drinking and
irrigation water....tough shit, let em put in some de-salination plants or
something--if you choose to live in a desert then you should expect water to
be scarce.

--

SVL

gofish@gonefishin.net

2005-10-14, 12:21 am

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:14:17 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT"
<precisionmachinist@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>news:wGC3f.244115$084.201914@attbi_s22...

I still get a huge laff about the rivers down here, 3 major ones all in fairly
close proximity...The LA river, the San Gabriel river, & the Santa Ana
river....all nothing more than big concrete lined ditches. At least the SA
river has a sandy bottom & multiple holding ponds. The only thing flowing into
the ocean out of the SA river is the effluent from the sewage plant located at
its mouth...yummy.
[color=darkred]
>
>BPA raised the rates to ALL customers along the ENTIRE northwest grid in
>order to supply them more hydro-power......IOW, California's follies with
>'deregulation' appear to have ended up costing ME money, and I live two
>fricking states north of there....
>
>Every so often I hear plans about how they would like to appropriate water
>from the Columbia and or Willamette rivers for use as drinking and
>irrigation water....tough shit, let em put in some de-salination plants or
>something--if you choose to live in a desert then you should expect water to
>be scarce.

Some big outfit from back east wants to build a $100 million de-salination
drinking water plant next to Edison's AES power plant in Huntington Beach (Surf
City USA) but the NIMBY's down here are nixing the idea.

SVL- you havent heard? Ca is going to divert the water out of the second
Bacon Siphon from going into Banks Lake and pipe it down to Mono Lake. ;)

PrecisionMachinisT

2005-10-14, 1:21 am

<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:d76uk1hsbce9msumi4nucjttrl7hrl1ec1@4ax.com...
>
> SVL- you havent heard? Ca is going to divert the water out of the
second
> Bacon Siphon from going into Banks Lake and pipe it down to Mono Lake. ;)

Hell, might just as well buy it ALL from Canada before it even enters the
states then...<G>

--

SVL

Carolina Breeze HVAC

2005-10-14, 2:21 pm

<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:m8vok1pf5jc9il4t95gu0m0sjfhee35f9d@4ax.com...
>
> LOL so you dont deny it....the topic is WAAAAAY over your head.

You guys are STILL at it?

gofish@gonefishin.net

2005-10-14, 7:21 pm

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:08:51 -0400, "Carolina Breeze HVAC"
<steve@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote:

>
><gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
>news:m8vok1pf5jc9il4t95gu0m0sjfhee35f9d@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>You guys are STILL at it?
>

well now that you mention it.....

what's YOUR impression of a guy who swears up and down he created alt.hvac (and
we all know hvac stands for heating, ventilating & air conditioning) and yet he
is completely f*cking clueless on the heating and ventilation aspects of
hvac.....I'd say he's more than intimidated on those topics, and as such, tells
the OP to take it to alt.home.repair....Point being, if you lack the first hand
experience to jump in on a thread,then lurk & learn. But then again, if you're
a control freak, that option never enters your pea brain.

wanna go further? at best, I'd say he's never been more than half a tech.
clueless on heating, clueless on ventilation. yawn. who cares?

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-20, 10:21 am

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:09:00 GMT, Jake <jkelleyus@insightbb.com>
wrote:

>Hydro is great... we just don't have a lot of it here. Maybe you guys
>can get a big one going on the infamous Los Angeles river (-;.

ROTFL!

Then, during the dry summer months, they can flood the San Fernando
Valley by opening up the Van Norman Sam a little bit. That'll give
'em some power. :-)

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-22, 10:21 pm

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 05:45:41 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
<nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:

>Van Norman Sam

Van Norman Dam.

Me and my fat fingers.

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-23, 1:21 am

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:10:09 GMT, gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:

>If we can put men on the moon,

I don't want to hear it.

They left Hasselblads up there, fer crissakes!

I kid you not.

--
-john

In order to define poor, we must define good, and good is subjective at best, at times.

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-23, 2:21 am

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:36:56 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
<nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:10:09 GMT, gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
>
>
>I don't want to hear it.
>
>They left Hasselblads up there, fer crissakes!
>
>I kid you not.

Joe Hasselblads ???

Damn, I didn't even know he was on the flight !

Somna XXXXX owed me 20 bucks, I guess now he's off the hook
..... :-(

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Power's Mechanical

2005-10-23, 11:21 am

Ellie May Milligan wrote.

Joe Hasselblads ???

Damn, I didn't even know he was on the flight !

Somna XXXXX owed me 20 bucks, I guess now he's off the hook

xxxx

Uh oh, sounds like the lot rent is going to be late again huh.

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-24, 2:21 am

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 04:02:31 GMT, ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:36:56 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
><nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>
>
> Joe Hasselblads ???
>
> Damn, I didn't even know he was on the flight !
>
> Somna XXXXX owed me 20 bucks, I guess now he's off the hook
>.... :-(
>

No, silly.... Hasselblad cameras.

I'll pay you twenty bucks to fly me to the moon and back, though.
I want those Hassy's!

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-24, 10:21 am

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:35:32 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
<nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 04:02:31 GMT, ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>
>No, silly.... Hasselblad cameras.
>
>I'll pay you twenty bucks to fly me to the moon and back, though.

Sorry, I'm not that kind of boy.

>I want those Hassy's!

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

LinkBot