Heating and air conditioning

Author

refrigeration

Jerry Furman

2005-10-12, 12:21 am

Noon-Air

2005-10-12, 12:21 am

question.... why R-414b?? unless thats all you had.... Personally I like to
use MP-39 for reach-in cooler replacement for R-12.
To me, it looks like your superheat is a bit low... maybe bring the SH up to
5degrees, then look for a little bigger delta T on the evap.
is the temp controlled by suction pressure?? or t-stat?? Whats product is
the cooler being used for??
While I am at it... is the expantion device a TXV or cap tube(s)??

"Jerry Furman" <jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote in message
news:11kotkshk38gocf@corp.supernews.com...
> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
> been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi.
> Low pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
> evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
> evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
> up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
> suggestions?
>

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-12, 12:21 am

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:54:41 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net>
wrote:

>question.... why R-414b?? unless thats all you had.... Personally I like to
>use MP-39 for reach-in cooler replacement for R-12.
>To me, it looks like your superheat is a bit low... maybe bring the SH up to
>5degrees, then look for a little bigger delta T on the evap.
>is the temp controlled by suction pressure?? or t-stat?? Whats product is
>the cooler being used for??
>While I am at it... is the expantion device a TXV or cap tube(s)??

HE'S RUNNING A 20 degree COIL ! WTF difference does all that
other shit make ??? You got 20 degrees, YOU GOT FUCKING ICE !!!!

Kee-rist .... go do some residential bullshit AC and stop
trying to play refer-man.

>
>"Jerry Furman" <jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote in message
>news:11kotkshk38gocf@corp.supernews.com...
>

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-12, 12:21 am

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:36:03 -0500, "Jerry Furman"
<jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote:

> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
>been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
>pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
>up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
>suggestions?
>

Seeing as you're running a 20 degree evap, I suppose you could
EXPECT some freaking ice, huh ?

So, check and fix your defrost problem, whether it be
off-cycle or heaters.

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

TURTLE

2005-10-12, 11:21 am

<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:hquok1tu9e6g6oodb608192dd5hqu8f32k@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:54:41 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> HE'S RUNNING A 20 degree COIL ! WTF difference does all that
> other shit make ??? You got 20 degrees, YOU GOT FUCKING ICE !!!!
>
> Kee-rist .... go do some residential bullshit AC and stop
> trying to play refer-man.
>
>

This is Turtle.

Hey Pie Face , When a professional in the HVAC/R business speaks you should
listen and maybe you would learn something. There is several ways to control a
20ºF coil which you have no ideal of how if you would listen , you would find
out. OR you could ask one of your cats and they could tell you. Pie Face you
don't have a clue !

TURTLE

TURTLE

2005-10-12, 12:21 pm

<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:unuok1hiee8npnbrsojpchfr8uft7f62dg@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:36:03 -0500, "Jerry Furman"
> <jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote:
>
>
> Seeing as you're running a 20 degree evap, I suppose you could
> EXPECT some freaking ice, huh ?
>
> So, check and fix your defrost problem, whether it be
> off-cycle or heaters.
>

This is Turtle

Pie Face your guessing again here. These 3 door coolers like he is describing
are usely controlled by cold control thermostat. If you knew what they was
controlled by you could speak on the subject, but as you just guessing on these
reach in coolers you just bullshitting again. These Reach in coolers are
controlled by a cold control thermostat and does not have a defrost timer or
defrost system. Steve was tring to get at the system messing up and rule out the
cold control thermostat. if you want me to explain the cold control thermostat
to you just ask. Now i wish you would stop trouble shooting these type boxes
when you don't have a clue.

TURTLE

Noon-Air

2005-10-12, 12:21 pm

"TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:_693f.5097$Ls.2420@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
> <..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> news:unuok1hiee8npnbrsojpchfr8uft7f62dg@4ax.com...
>
> This is Turtle
>
> Pie Face your guessing again here. These 3 door coolers like he is
> describing are usely controlled by cold control thermostat. If you knew
> what they was controlled by you could speak on the subject, but as you
> just guessing on these reach in coolers you just bullshitting again. These
> Reach in coolers are controlled by a cold control thermostat and does not
> have a defrost timer or defrost system. Steve was tring to get at the
> system messing up and rule out the cold control thermostat. if you want me
> to explain the cold control thermostat to you just ask. Now i wish you
> would stop trouble shooting these type boxes when you don't have a clue.
>
> TURTLE

In a private e-mail, the OP said that the cooler only has an air temp type
stat and cap tubes. I recommended that he install a cold control. For the
benifit of Paul and others, a cold control is a pressure switch that
maintains temp by cycling on suction pressure, not air temperature. When
cycling on suction pressure with a cold control, and the superheat is
correct, a reach-in cooler will not normally ice up.

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-12, 12:21 pm

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:00:46 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net>
wrote:

>
>"TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:_693f.5097$Ls.2420@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
>In a private e-mail, the OP said that the cooler only has an air temp type
>stat and cap tubes. I recommended that he install a cold control. For the
>benifit of Paul and others, a cold control is a pressure switch that
>maintains temp by cycling on suction pressure, not air temperature. When
>cycling on suction pressure with a cold control, and the superheat is
>correct, a reach-in cooler will not normally ice up.

Gee, thanks so FUCKING much for trying to explain that fancy
complicated control to me. Too bad you got it FUCKING WRONG, as
usual.

If you had ever worked on one, you would know that you can ice
up EASILY with a pressure cycle control ( layman's term - 'cold
control' ). Try maintaining a 34 F box and see what happens.

NOW, you fucking moron, the OP needs to stop emailing hacks
like you, and go buy himself a fucking PARAGON TIMER, and set up an
OFF CYCLE DEFROST of 20 minutes, 3 times a day.

To the OP - this means you cut the compressor off via the
control circuit, and leave the evap fans running. If 20 minutes isn't
enough, increase to 30 minutes.

Moron.

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

TURTLE

2005-10-12, 2:21 pm

<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:ib9qk19cmnaiv7et868ssl02kfk5r7n3mp@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:00:46 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> Gee, thanks so FUCKING much for trying to explain that fancy
> complicated control to me. Too bad you got it FUCKING WRONG, as
> usual.
>
> If you had ever worked on one, you would know that you can ice
> up EASILY with a pressure cycle control ( layman's term - 'cold
> control' ). Try maintaining a 34 F box and see what happens.
>
> NOW, you fucking moron, the OP needs to stop emailing hacks
> like you, and go buy himself a fucking PARAGON TIMER, and set up an
> OFF CYCLE DEFROST of 20 minutes, 3 times a day.
>
> To the OP - this means you cut the compressor off via the
> control circuit, and leave the evap fans running. If 20 minutes isn't
> enough, increase to 30 minutes.
>
> Moron.
>

This is Turtle.

What you just suggested here is for this customer to add about $500.00 to the
cost of his cooler by installing defrost clock and defrost system and not fix
the cold control the manufactor had installed in it which they have worked good
for 50 years doing it this way. I think you should send this e-mail to copland
and true manufactor of reach in cooler and change their design to your design at
a cost of a extra $500.00 to the box when a simple cold control would do the
same job. ]

My LORD Paul , your calling a Pressure fan control a cold control thermostat
with your words [[[[[[[[[[ If you had ever worked on one, you would know that
you can ice up EASILY with a pressure cycle control [ layman's terms - ' cold
control' ] then try maintaining a 34ºF in a box and see " . Really Paul you
need to talk this over with billy bob and find how these boxes work ]]]]]]]]].

Really Pie Face if you really worked on these boxes you would know that these
manufactors have been using cold control thermostat running these box for 50+
years and doing a good job and you come alone and want to add $500.00 to the
cost of it and then call a cold control thermostat a pressure fan control.

Now let me cut you off here when you say or try to explain to me how the cold
control thermostats work for i have been working on them everysince i was a kid
and probley before you could spell freon. Yes i know your going to have to lie
to get out of this one but if there was ever such a thing as getting cought in a
bullshit of a lier , this is one. That is a good one when you bullshitting and
said a cold control thermostat will not maintain a 34ºF temp on a cooler with
nothing else on it to control it.

Now let me hear you try to bullshit your way out of this one ? Oh Paul , I work
on them and you don't.

TURTLE

Noon-Air

2005-10-12, 2:21 pm

Stormin Mormon

2005-10-12, 4:21 pm

Remove the bulb from the cold control off the back wall. Tiestrap it to the
suction line inside the evaporator housing.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..

"Jerry Furman" <jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote in message
news:11kotkshk38gocf@corp.supernews.com...
I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

Geoman1

2005-10-12, 6:21 pm

"TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:9Na3f.13314$5l.2168@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> <..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> news:ib9qk19cmnaiv7et868ssl02kfk5r7n3mp@4ax.com...
>
> This is Turtle.
>
> What you just suggested here is for this customer to add about $500.00 to
> the cost of his cooler by installing defrost clock and defrost system and
> not fix the cold control the manufactor had installed in it which they
> have worked good for 50 years doing it this way. I think you should send
> this e-mail to copland and true manufactor of reach in cooler and change
> their design to your design at a cost of a extra $500.00 to the box when a
> simple cold control would do the same job. ]
>
> My LORD Paul , your calling a Pressure fan control a cold control
> thermostat with your words [[[[[[[[[[ If you had ever worked on one, you
> would know that you can ice up EASILY with a pressure cycle control [
> layman's terms - ' cold control' ] then try maintaining a 34ºF in a box
> and see " . Really Paul you need to talk this over with billy bob and find
> how these boxes work ]]]]]]]]].
>
> Really Pie Face if you really worked on these boxes you would know that
> these manufactors have been using cold control thermostat running these
> box for 50+ years and doing a good job and you come alone and want to add
> $500.00 to the cost of it and then call a cold control thermostat a
> pressure fan control.
>
> Now let me cut you off here when you say or try to explain to me how the
> cold control thermostats work for i have been working on them everysince i
> was a kid and probley before you could spell freon. Yes i know your going
> to have to lie to get out of this one but if there was ever such a thing
> as getting cought in a bullshit of a lier , this is one. That is a good
> one when you bullshitting and said a cold control thermostat will not
> maintain a 34ºF temp on a cooler with nothing else on it to control it.
>
> Now let me hear you try to bullshit your way out of this one ? Oh Paul , I
> work on them and you don't.
>
> TURTLE

Turtle, sorry buddy, but your post is way off base, I suggest you re-read
what Paul said because he was absolutly correct. I think you totally
misunderstood him.

First, I have a dozen defrost clocks in stock that I will be glad to sell to
you for, lets say, $400? Thats a deal if you are paying $500.

Also, Paul never said that that a cold control thermostat was a pressure
"fan" control, he was speaking of a low suction pressure controller. Your
the one who mentioned that it was a pressure switch, Paul was saying that
during defrost the fans would stay on which is correct. BTW, your wrong in
your post as this being a thermostat if indeed the switch is reading
pressure. If its reading pressure then its a PRESSURE switch and NOT a
thermostat. If the manufacturer calls it a thermostat they are wrong.

Are you sure that your 'cold control' is a pressure switch which reads
suction pressure and not a thermostat? If its a pressure type and this guy
is getting 34F then I'm sorry to inform you, your coil will have ice on it.
How do you get the air to become 34F unless you have a colder medium to
remove the heat and lower the temperature? You have posted in the past when
working on A/C units that you have a "15" or a "20" degree split, well, this
is true with refrigeration as well. To get a 34 degree box temp your coil is
going to be about 19F or lower, and at these temperatures you will have ice.
The problem comes when the box doesn't get warm enough to melt the ice
before the compressor turns on. This problem is controllable with a pressure
switch, with a thermostat it is controllable with a larger differential.

If it is a pressure control that is maintaining the on and off of this box
then it may be a defective control, or its out of adjustment. However, I
have seen many units requiring defrost clocks even with a 'cold control
thermostat'.

>

Barry

2005-10-12, 6:21 pm

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:36:03 -0500, "Jerry Furman"
<jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote:

> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
>been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
>pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
>up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
>suggestions?
>

Why don't we try the easy stuff first. Check your door gaskets
for air infiltration. Is the compressor running continuously or most
of the time. No off cycle no defrost. Or, go buy a Johnson control
remote sensor, programmable stat (not expensive). Mount it outside
the box, it has an adjustable differential control. Nice digital
display and customers like to see the temp. Real good seller when I
was in business for my self.

Barry

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-12, 6:21 pm

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:41:43 -0400, "Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote:

>Turtle, sorry buddy, but your post is way off base, I suggest you re-read
>what Paul said because he was absolutly correct. I think you totally
>misunderstood him.

Rich - thanks, but you're wasting perfectly good air arguing
with the weasel and his hack buddy from MS.

>First, I have a dozen defrost clocks in stock that I will be glad to sell to
>you for, lets say, $400? Thats a deal if you are paying $500.

No shit :-) Of course, Weasel doesn't know what a 'truck
stock normal every day Paragon timer' **IS**, let alone how and when
and why to use one.. He thinks it's a special order 'high falutin'
college-boy special order fancy-pants part'.

BTW - Anyone wants to buy 'em from me, I bet I can even beat
Rich's price some :-)

>Also, Paul never said that that a cold control thermostat was a pressure
>"fan" control, he was speaking of a low suction pressure controller. Your
>the one who mentioned that it was a pressure switch, Paul was saying that
>during defrost the fans would stay on which is correct. BTW, your wrong in
>your post as this being a thermostat if indeed the switch is reading
>pressure. If its reading pressure then its a PRESSURE switch and NOT a
>thermostat. If the manufacturer calls it a thermostat they are wrong.

Weasels and hacks just call them 'cold controls', that way
they don't have to worry about nasty details like 'how they actually
work'.

>Are you sure that your 'cold control' is a pressure switch which reads
>suction pressure and not a thermostat? If its a pressure type and this guy
>is getting 34F then I'm sorry to inform you, your coil will have ice on it.

No shit.

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Geoman1

2005-10-12, 7:21 pm

"Barry" <b2b2ss@#earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e7tqk190t02ci082pqsef9ai5pq47qlhj3@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:36:03 -0500, "Jerry Furman"
> <jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Why don't we try the easy stuff first. Check your door gaskets
> for air infiltration. Is the compressor running continuously or most
> of the time. No off cycle no defrost. Or, go buy a Johnson control
> remote sensor, programmable stat (not expensive). Mount it outside
> the box, it has an adjustable differential control. Nice digital
> display and customers like to see the temp. Real good seller when I
> was in business for my self.
>
> Barry

wow, all very good points that I failed to think of. Man, I'm
slipping............

Also, Turtle, I wasn't responding negatively to your post, so don't take it
that way. I honestly think you mis-read Paul's post and your post was way
off to what he was saying. Man, I wish you two would bury the
hatchets.......... I guess that's never going to happen.......... It
makes it difficult to post and not get into the middle. Heck, I like the
bottom!!! (Ok Mike, another reason to call me a pagan!)

Rich

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-12, 8:21 pm

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:13:51 -0400, "Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote:

>
>"Barry" <b2b2ss@#earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:e7tqk190t02ci082pqsef9ai5pq47qlhj3@4ax.com...
>
>wow, all very good points that I failed to think of. Man, I'm
>slipping............
>
>Also, Turtle, I wasn't responding negatively to your post, so don't take it
>that way.

You called 'bullshit' on his sorry weaseling hack XXX when you
saw it, just like I do. You called him 'Liar' when you saw his lies,
just like I do. Don't apologise for it. We need MORE people to stand
up for what's right, not fewer.

> I honestly think you mis-read Paul's post and your post was way
>off to what he was saying. Man, I wish you two would bury the
>hatchets.......... I guess that's never going to happen..........

Not while he posts his hack thievery crap here. 'Cut out the
brand new factory system because he dosn't understand it and throw a
fan control in' ( which he also doesn't understand ) and such .....

>makes it difficult to post and not get into the middle. Heck, I like the
>bottom!!! (Ok Mike, another reason to call me a pagan!)

I WAS gonna call you somehting *else*, but I'll leave it to JR
to play THAT card !!! :-)

'Like the bottom' ????????

Geez, Rich .........

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Power's Mechanical

2005-10-12, 8:21 pm

I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that
has
been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi.
Low
pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then
builds
up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have
any
suggestions?

xxxx

Sounds like its overcharged by the presures you listed. 205 @ 80F
ambient is to high. Take some refrigerant out until the head is
about150psi. Or you can block or stop the evap fans, slowley charge it
till the suction line starts to frost. Start the fans back up and it
should be close. Make sure the condenser is clean.

Make sure the door gaskets are ok. Take a dollar bill and close it in
the door. If it slides though easily your gaskets are letting in too
much outside air and the compressor is running to long causing the
icing.

Hot Shot (414) is a good choice for medium temp boxes but you need to
be careful you dont over charge it which is easy to do. Normally you
will see about a 10 degree differance between inlet and outlet air. At
the temps you are running there is no way you need a defrost clock.
Putting one on is masking the real problem and only a hack would
suggest such a thing.

Your bottom line two problems are over charged and too long of a run
cycle for whatever reason. Normally the run time is about 2/3 on 1/3
off over a 24 hr period.

And yes you can run it down to 34f with a pressure control no problem
no matter what that other dill hole says.

Bubba

2005-10-12, 9:21 pm

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:45:10 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Remove the bulb from the cold control off the back wall. Tiestrap it to the
>suction line inside the evaporator housing.

I have a better idea.
How about after removing that bulb off the back wall we "Tiestrap"
your XXX to the suction line until you reach 20 degrees? Then after
you are all good and frozen solid, we take your fat frozen colored
blind XXX out into the parking lot and we all get a free swing at you
with a large sledgehammer?
Now THAT'S my idea of a good time.
Bubba

Power's Mechanical

2005-10-12, 11:21 pm

We need MORE people to stand
up for what's right, not fewer.

xxxx

If that was the case you would be getting reamed all day long XXXXXXX.

DiDo

2005-10-12, 11:21 pm

Since you already have dozens of replays I Have decided
to put my two sense in.
First it does not matter what type system (box, cooler is)
refrigeration is refrigeration.
I do not know where are you taking readings but your
bloody superheat is unbelievable unless you want to pump
the liquid. ideal superheat is around 10 degrees.
As for freezing up? access or the (use of cooler)must be
taken in consideration gasket around the door
ambient humidity on the sight ETC.
If you cooler using Tst. for control it should be change
or you can add Low side pressure switch to turn compressor
on/off. you adjust this switch to turn compressor off just as some
frost start to show up anywhere on evaporator or use
Thermocouple and measure temperature on evaporator
suction line, as temperature get to between 30 and 32
degrees you compressor should be turn off.
There is advantage and disadvantage to this set up because
if cooler happen to be in large use temperature will start
to go up. question is with which one you customer can live with
one side icing up you loss temperature on the other
with pressure switch excessive use, you also will have loss
of temperature but you will not have frozen evaporator
Note: you can use both switch in series for control
on some conditions it may even work better.
I say Good luck from Dido

"Jerry Furman" <jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote in message
news:11kotkshk38gocf@corp.supernews.com...
> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has been
> converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
> pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
> evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
> evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds up
> ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
> suggestions?
>

TURTLE

2005-10-13, 12:21 am

"Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kIWdneDgaZoT3dDeRVn-2Q@comcast.com...
>
> "TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:9Na3f.13314$5l.2168@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> If he really worked on the stuff, he would also know that the cold control
> doesn't actually control the evap fans.
>
>
> Turtle,
>
> Paul isn't worth the effort. The only time I even see his babbling is when
> somebody includes it in their posts.
> I would like to see how he goes about setting up a box for 34 - 38 degrees @
> 90 - 95% RH. I have several customers that have coolers with those particular
> requirements. OTH..... oh, never mind..... its just something else that Paul
> doesn't know anything about.

This is Turtle.

i just can't believe Pie Face is tring to tell Freezer jockey how things work
and does not have a clue as to what or how they are set up. Shut Up Billy Bob
you still don't know shit ! You know i think it is one of those cats pie faces
has , that is telling him about how to work on the reach in boxes. now it could
be Billy bob calling him or e-mailing him and tring to call the shots from
Sumberville.

That poor Devil Paul tring to talk the Walk and never has walk the walk.

TURTLE

TURTLE

2005-10-13, 12:21 am

"Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message news:4ImdnZD3PJ6Y6NDeRVn-tg@adelphia.com...
>
> "TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:9Na3f.13314$5l.2168@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> Turtle, sorry buddy, but your post is way off base, I suggest you re-read what
> Paul said because he was absolutly correct. I think you totally misunderstood
> him.
>
> First, I have a dozen defrost clocks in stock that I will be glad to sell to
> you for, lets say, $400? Thats a deal if you are paying $500.
>
> Also, Paul never said that that a cold control thermostat was a pressure "fan"
> control, he was speaking of a low suction pressure controller. Your the one
> who mentioned that it was a pressure switch, Paul was saying that during
> defrost the fans would stay on which is correct. BTW, your wrong in your post
> as this being a thermostat if indeed the switch is reading pressure. If its
> reading pressure then its a PRESSURE switch and NOT a thermostat. If the
> manufacturer calls it a thermostat they are wrong.
>
> Are you sure that your 'cold control' is a pressure switch which reads suction
> pressure and not a thermostat? If its a pressure type and this guy is getting
> 34F then I'm sorry to inform you, your coil will have ice on it. How do you
> get the air to become 34F unless you have a colder medium to remove the heat
> and lower the temperature? You have posted in the past when working on A/C
> units that you have a "15" or a "20" degree split, well, this is true with
> refrigeration as well. To get a 34 degree box temp your coil is going to be
> about 19F or lower, and at these temperatures you will have ice. The problem
> comes when the box doesn't get warm enough to melt the ice before the
> compressor turns on. This problem is controllable with a pressure switch, with
> a thermostat it is controllable with a larger differential.
>

Snip info

This is Turtle.

Let me inlighten you about a true COLD CONTROL THERMOSTAT. The True Cold Control
has a set point of 18ºF to 30ºF and then has a automatic set point of cut back
in at 39ºF. No matter where you set the thermostat from 18ºF to 30ºF at cut out
point , it will always get back to 39ºF before hitting cut back in temperature.
The Service man or Rookie of today will usely be sticking in clocks with the
coil to read the temperature of the coil and will not let it freeze up by going
back to 39ºF with every cycle. This cold control thermostat would replace
clocks, heaters or anything on reach in coolers but now a days they want to
complicate the reach in boxes with all sorts of electric devices as paul was
speaking about. Paul was speaking of a clock , time out devices , and everything
when the TRUE COLD CONTROL will take care of it and add nothing to it.

now you are very much wrong about Paul calling a pressure control the same thing
as a Layman terms ''cold control' . I will after this post single out his
quote for you to read where he referres to a pressure controller as a cold
control. He called a pressure controller a cold Control in his own words. it
will follow in another post behind this one. read it slow and you will see.

TURTLE

TURTLE

2005-10-13, 12:21 am

<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:7rtqk1d8frel50rhkppjj6hvvcp9u10h35@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:41:43 -0400, "Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote:
>
>
> Rich - thanks, but you're wasting perfectly good air arguing
> with the weasel and his hack buddy from MS.
>
>
> No shit :-) Of course, Weasel doesn't know what a 'truck
> stock normal every day Paragon timer' **IS**, let alone how and when
> and why to use one.. He thinks it's a special order 'high falutin'
> college-boy special order fancy-pants part'.
>
> BTW - Anyone wants to buy 'em from me, I bet I can even beat
> Rich's price some :-)
>
>
> Weasels and hacks just call them 'cold controls', that way
> they don't have to worry about nasty details like 'how they actually
> work'.
>
>
> No shit.
>

This is Turtle.

your dancing good here but you can't bullshit your way out of this LIE.

Oh Pie Face , You say you would rewire a 3 door reach in cooler add a Paragon
timer at about $100.00+ , 3 Hour Labor, and as you say cost $400.00 to $500.00
which all you have to do it put the correct cold control back on it for $34.00.
You like them clocks don't you.

TURTLE

TURTLE

2005-10-13, 12:21 am

[color=darkred]

This is Turtle

Second Reply with PIE FACE's Blunder in it.

Pressure Cycle Control [ layman's terms - ' cold control' ]

Is a Pressure Cycle Controller a cold control ?

TURTLE

geoman jr

2005-10-13, 12:21 am

TURTLE

2005-10-13, 12:21 am

"Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message news:LrWdneqXqs4AF9DeRVn-qw@adelphia.com...
>
> "Barry" <b2b2ss@#earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:e7tqk190t02ci082pqsef9ai5pq47qlhj3@4ax.com...
>
> wow, all very good points that I failed to think of. Man, I'm
> slipping............
>
> Also, Turtle, I wasn't responding negatively to your post, so don't take it
> that way. I honestly think you mis-read Paul's post and your post was way off
> to what he was saying. Man, I wish you two would bury the hatchets..........
> I guess that's never going to happen.......... It makes it difficult to post
> and not get into the middle. Heck, I like the bottom!!! (Ok Mike, another
> reason to call me a pagan!)
>
> Rich

This is Turtle.

if you really read what Pie Face writes it is just out of a book somewhere and
does not go together. He calls a Pressure cycle controller a cold control and
you believe it , WOW. If i was off here please explain to me what the words i
just wrote mean other than paul's bullshit.

Look Rich , i don't take any offence from you the way you talk but you are
straight forward and don't try to bullshit your way out a lie like paul does. i
welcome any respectiable correction that is really trueful and not just flaming
me. Paul is a bullshitter that does not like anybody that does not let him tell
bullshit like he wants to and says something about it which he does not like to
be corrected for being wrong. All you have to do is correct him one time and
your gone or he will flame you till your gone. Pie Face must be a fool thinking
i'm going somewhere with his little flame he can put out by him and his 3
XXXXXXX buddys.

Check up what a True Cold Control is used on old refrigerators with freezer box
inside the cooler area. these are a example of a true cold control.

TURTLE

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-13, 1:21 am

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:01:31 GMT, "DiDo" <aseput@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Since you already have dozens of replays I Have decided
>to put my two sense in.
>First it does not matter what type system (box, cooler is)
>refrigeration is refrigeration.
>I do not know where are you taking readings but your
>bloody superheat is unbelievable unless you want to pump
>the liquid. ideal superheat is around 10 degrees.

Not for refrigeration near a satisfied box, moron. Not even
close.

>As for freezing up? access or the (use of cooler)must be
>taken in consideration gasket around the door
>ambient humidity on the sight ETC.
>If you cooler using Tst. for control it should be change
>or you can add Low side pressure switch to turn compressor
>on/off. you adjust this switch to turn compressor off just as some
>frost start to show up anywhere on evaporator or use
>Thermocouple and measure temperature on evaporator
>suction line, as temperature get to between 30 and 32
>degrees you compressor should be turn off.

Like Weasel and his hack butt-buddy from MS, you've obviously
never done refrigeration, so STFU.

XXXXXXX, how do you think you're going to going to drive a box
to 35 if you don't let your coil get below 32 ?????

>There is advantage and disadvantage to this set up because
>if cooler happen to be in large use temperature will start
>to go up. question is with which one you customer can live with
>one side icing up you loss temperature on the other
>with pressure switch excessive use, you also will have loss
>of temperature but you will not have frozen evaporator

And you box will be lucky to see 45 F.

>Note: you can use both switch in series for control
>on some conditions it may even work better.
>I say Good luck from Dido
>
>
>
>"Jerry Furman" <jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote in message
>news:11kotkshk38gocf@corp.supernews.com...
>

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-13, 1:21 am

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:27:32 GMT, ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:

> how do you think you're going to going to drive a box
>to 35 if you don't let your coil get below 32 ?????

Oh, ho, ho, it's magic, you know...
live and believe it's not so.
-Pilot

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

Bill

2005-10-13, 3:21 am

In article <%dj3f.10659$AR1.339@trndny09>, "DiDo" <aseput@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> If you cooler using Tst. for control it should be change
> or you can add Low side pressure switch to turn compressor
> on/off. you adjust this switch to turn compressor off just as some
> frost start to show up anywhere on evaporator or use
> Thermocouple and measure temperature on evaporator
> suction line, as temperature get to between 30 and 32
> degrees you compressor should be turn off.
> There is advantage and disadvantage to this set up because
> if cooler happen to be in large use temperature will start
> to go up. question is with which one you customer can live with
> one side icing up you loss temperature on the other
> with pressure switch excessive use, you also will have loss
> of temperature but you will not have frozen evaporator
> Note: you can use both switch in series for control
> on some conditions it may even work better.
> I say Good luck from Dido

I suggest you take some RSES courses.

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

Bill

2005-10-13, 3:21 am

In article <1129158573.311182.276320@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Power's Mechanical" <pusher100@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Sounds like its overcharged by the presures you listed. 205 @ 80F
> ambient is to high. Take some refrigerant out until the head is
> about150psi. Or you can block or stop the evap fans, slowley charge it
> till the suction line starts to frost. Start the fans back up and it
> should be close. Make sure the condenser is clean.
>
> Make sure the door gaskets are ok. Take a dollar bill and close it in
> the door. If it slides though easily your gaskets are letting in too
> much outside air and the compressor is running to long causing the
> icing.
>
> Hot Shot (414) is a good choice for medium temp boxes but you need to
> be careful you dont over charge it which is easy to do. Normally you
> will see about a 10 degree differance between inlet and outlet air. At
> the temps you are running there is no way you need a defrost clock.
> Putting one on is masking the real problem and only a hack would
> suggest such a thing.
>
> Your bottom line two problems are over charged and too long of a run
> cycle for whatever reason. Normally the run time is about 2/3 on 1/3
> off over a 24 hr period.
>
> And yes you can run it down to 34f with a pressure control no problem
> no matter what that other dill hole says.

No wonder the union doesn't do commercial refrigeration. LOL

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

Bill

2005-10-13, 3:21 am

In article <1129166277.315855.226370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Power's Mechanical" <pusher100@hotmail.com> wrote:

> We need MORE people to stand
> up for what's right, not fewer.
>
> xxxx
>
> If that was the case you would be getting reamed all day long XXXXXXX.

That why you're always on your knee's mikey?

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

Bill

2005-10-13, 3:21 am

In article <VvCdnc1ZxYKCuNDeRVn-oQ@comcast.com>,
"Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote:

>
> In a private e-mail, the OP said that the cooler only has an air temp type
> stat and cap tubes. I recommended that he install a cold control. For the
> benifit of Paul and others, a cold control is a pressure switch that
> maintains temp by cycling on suction pressure, not air temperature. When
> cycling on suction pressure with a cold control, and the superheat is
> correct, a reach-in cooler will not normally ice up.

Not on a cap tube system. As soon as it shuts off the pressures equalize
and kicks it right back on.

You, weasel and mikey are entertaining. Should be even funnier watching
you tap dance out of this one.

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-13, 3:21 am

NOTE: This reply applies specifically to the use of Hotshot (R414b):

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:09:36 -0400, "geoman jr" <mwalk2@comcast.net>
wrote:

You did charge LIQUID into the system, and not GAS, I hope?

What is weird, is, an overcharge shouldn't cause iceing.
But the temperature glide of a zeotropic blend can be quite befuddling
at times.

30 lb suction is too high for 414b for low temp, and could be about
right for med temp continuous run systems. But systems vary. In any
event, your coil is =probably= overfeeding. Take out some of the
refrigerant... from the DRYER TAP or LIQUID LINE.

NOTE: With R414b, always charge and discharge LIQUID, NEVER with
GAS. Otherwise, you run the risk of fractionation, which not only
will require an evacuation and recharge of the affected system, but
in extreme cases, can spoil your whole 25 lb can! You can wind up
with mostly all R22 in your system, and less than 50% R22 in the can.
This is not good! R22 will ice up at 30 pounds suction, and
superheat will be real low. Such is fractionation.

Use a charging glass, if possible. Yes, you can still get them. :-)
By volume, it's close enough to R12 on the scale to be within a half
an ounce at one pound, plus 17%. If you weigh it in, then you will
likely be 17% ocvercharged!!! Use the glass, not the scale, and use
the R12 markings on the glass. Start with a slight undercharge, and
adjust (add refrigerant if necessary) after a day or so.
[color=darkred]
> Gee if you really want to make it easy why the fuck convert it in the first
>place. This unit probably had less than two pounds of gas in it. Was it
>really worth the hassle and have you condemned this compresser to an early
>death?? There's still R-12 around-

R414b (aka "Hotshot") is a blend specifically designed as an R12
replacement. It works great in low temp /med temp R12 boxes.
I've used Hotshot in quite a few compressor swaps in domestic boxes ,
and have never had one come back yet.

One caveat is, Hotshot is a blend, as it is nowhere near azetropic,
and so it is very easy to accidentally overcharge with it, if using
pressure/superheat as a guide during charging.

Superheat is meaningless in charging a fixed cap tube system, anyway,
until temps have stabilized, which can take anywhere from 8 to 24
hours, or maybe longer, so it should be used for *initial charging*
with many blends such as Hotshot.

I usually kill the evap fan and watch the frost pattern, then start
the fan, and slowly add a little more Hotshot if needed.

Watch the glass. If you have added 3 lbs to a 2 lb system, and still
have crazy temps/pressures, well... you shouldn't have gone that far
in the first place.

>sometimes you gotta bite the bullet, fix
>whatever caused the original problem ( why it was converted) clean the
>system up, recharge it and walk away.

Bad compressor, probably?

>Cap tubes can be a XXXXX with the
>newer refrigerants.

I agree.
Sometimes it's more of a XXXXX to deal with than doing a TXV
conversion. But that's a catch-22 in and of itself, when dealing
with zeotropic blends... :-)

>Do you want the headaches??? Just my opinion :-)

If we don't LOVE a challenge, then perhaps we shouldn't be doing
refrigration (especially field retrofitting). <g>

IHTH.

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

Bill

2005-10-13, 4:21 am

In article <SHj3f.6811$Ls.3454@bignews2.bellsouth.net>,
"TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> Let me inlighten you about a true COLD CONTROL THERMOSTAT. The True Cold
> Control
> has a set point of 18ºF to 30ºF and then has a automatic set point of cut
> back
> in at 39ºF. No matter where you set the thermostat from 18ºF to 30ºF at cut
> out
> point , it will always get back to 39ºF before hitting cut back in
> temperature.
> The Service man or Rookie of today will usely be sticking in clocks with the
> coil to read the temperature of the coil and will not let it freeze up by
> going
> back to 39ºF with every cycle. This cold control thermostat would replace
> clocks, heaters or anything on reach in coolers but now a days they want to
> complicate the reach in boxes with all sorts of electric devices as paul was
> speaking about. Paul was speaking of a clock , time out devices , and
> everything
> when the TRUE COLD CONTROL will take care of it and add nothing to it.
>
> now you are very much wrong about Paul calling a pressure control the same
> thing
> as a Layman terms ''cold control' . I will after this post single out his
> quote for you to read where he referres to a pressure controller as a cold
> control. He called a pressure controller a cold Control in his own words. it
> will follow in another post behind this one. read it slow and you will see.
>
> TURTLE

weasel a Low Pressure Control can and is used as a temperature control.
But not on cap-tube systems.
Maybe you should read up on where cap-tubes equalize pressure on the off
cycle.
Ranco has hundreds of "cold controls". Maybe you should let them know
how they all work.
Be sure to tell them you have 45+ years in the trade.

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

Bill

2005-10-13, 4:21 am

In article <7rtqk1d8frel50rhkppjj6hvvcp9u10h35@4ax.com>,
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:41:43 -0400, "Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote:
>
>
> Rich - thanks, but you're wasting perfectly good air arguing
> with the weasel and his hack buddy from MS.
>
>
> No shit :-) Of course, Weasel doesn't know what a 'truck
> stock normal every day Paragon timer' **IS**, let alone how and when
> and why to use one.. He thinks it's a special order 'high falutin'
> college-boy special order fancy-pants part'.
>
> BTW - Anyone wants to buy 'em from me, I bet I can even beat
> Rich's price some :-)

I suggest Grasslin timers and I think I could beat your price by a
dollar or two. :-)

I think you have to rub weasel's nose in the basics more. Even
considering he's a moron. He just don't get it.
Noon posted the OP had a cap-tube system and still they all rattled on.

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

Bill

2005-10-13, 4:21 am

In article <kIWdneDgaZoT3dDeRVn-2Q@comcast.com>,
"Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote:
> Turtle,
>
> Paul isn't worth the effort. The only time I even see his babbling is when
> somebody includes it in their posts.
> I would like to see how he goes about setting up a box for 34 - 38 degrees @
> 90 - 95% RH. I have several customers that have coolers with those
> particular requirements. OTH..... oh, never mind..... its just something
> else that Paul doesn't know anything about.

Like a LPC on a cap-tube system? Explain how that works noonie.

Then you can explain how to set up a box for 34 - 38 degrees @ 90 - 95%
RH.

You can barely handle residential noonie, so this should be good.

Use all the blank space below here that you need.

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-13, 4:21 am

I posted before I saw this reply:

On 12 Oct 2005 16:09:33 -0700, "Power's Mechanical"
<pusher100@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that
>has
>been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi.
> Low
>pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
>evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
>evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then
>builds
>up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have
>any
>suggestions?
>
>xxxx
>
>Sounds like its overcharged by the presures you listed.

I concur. Else, it is fractionated, which throws extra R22 into the
system.

>205 @ 80F
>ambient is to high. Take some refrigerant out until the head is
>about150psi. Or you can block or stop the evap fans, slowley charge it
>till the suction line starts to frost. Start the fans back up and it
>should be close. Make sure the condenser is clean.

Damn! I forgot the condenser! :-)

>Make sure the door gaskets are ok. Take a dollar bill and close it in
>the door. If it slides though easily your gaskets are letting in too
>much outside air and the compressor is running to long causing the
>icing.

Doubtful, but still possible.

>
>Hot Shot (414) is a good choice for medium temp boxes but you need to
>be careful you dont over charge it which is easy to do. Normally you
>will see about a 10 degree differance between inlet and outlet air. At
>the temps you are running there is no way you need a defrost clock.

Yep.

>Putting one on is masking the real problem and only a hack would
>suggest such a thing.

Icing up at 30 lbs gage on suction tells me the charge is fractionated
(too much R22). Hotshot is only supposed to be 50% R22.

>Your bottom line two problems are over charged and too long of a run
>cycle for whatever reason. Normally the run time is about 2/3 on 1/3
>off over a 24 hr period.

Yes.

>And yes you can run it down to 34f with a pressure control no problem
>no matter what that other dill hole says.

Absolutely.

It is either overcharged, fractionated, or both.

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~~~~~~~~
Always listen to experts. They will explain what
can't be done and why. Then do it. - Robert Heinlein
~~~~~~~~

Bill

2005-10-13, 4:21 am

In article <RHj3f.6810$Ls.4480@bignews2.bellsouth.net>,
"TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> i just can't believe Pie Face is tring to tell Freezer jockey how things work
> and does not have a clue as to what or how they are set up. Shut Up Billy Bob
> you still don't know shit ! You know i think it is one of those cats pie
> faces
> has , that is telling him about how to work on the reach in boxes. now it
> could
> be Billy bob calling him or e-mailing him and tring to call the shots from
> Sumberville.
>
> That poor Devil Paul tring to talk the Walk and never has walk the walk.

weasel you're a pathetic old hack. You aren't even faintly amusing.

Paul will always run circles around your ignorant XXX weasel because you
are a hack.
Leave it alone weasel. You said you aren't willing to learn and that you
are going to retire.
Everytime you post you show your stupidity. Quit while you're behind
hack boi.

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

Bill

2005-10-13, 4:21 am

In article <eq0sk15lsv6f5o875b39fmoidgck1rpifb@4ax.com>,
~^Johnny^~ <nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>And yes you can run it down to 34f with a pressure control no problem
>no matter what that other dill hole says.
> Absolutely.
>
> It is either overcharged, fractionated, or both.

Cap tube system. Think about it.

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-13, 4:21 am

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:11:16 -0500, "TURTLE"
<turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>"Geoman1" <Geo1> wrote in message news:LrWdneqXqs4AF9DeRVn-qw@adelphia.com...
>
>This is Turtle.
>
>if you really read what Pie Face writes it is just out of a book somewhere and
>does not go together. He calls a Pressure cycle controller a cold control and
>you believe it , WOW. If i was off here please explain to me what the words i
>just wrote mean other than paul's bullshit.
>
>Look Rich , i don't take any offence from you the way you talk but you are
>straight forward and don't try to bullshit your way out a lie like paul does. i
>welcome any respectiable correction that is really trueful and not just flaming
>me. Paul is a bullshitter that does not like anybody that does not let him tell
>bullshit like he wants to and says something about it which he does not like to
>be corrected for being wrong. All you have to do is correct him one time and
>your gone or he will flame you till your gone. Pie Face must be a fool thinking
>i'm going somewhere with his little flame he can put out by him and his 3
>XXXXXXX buddys.
>
>Check up what a True Cold Control is used on old refrigerators with freezer box
>inside the cooler area. these are a example of a true cold control.
>
>TURTLE
>

This is John

Hey, Terry, what has all your BS got to do with the REAL problem?
The OP has a specific scenario, which you fail to address.

I've seen you give intelligent answers before, but they have been few
and far between, and this isn't one of them.

You seem to be too busy arguing semantics, and flaming, and
generally being a smartass.

Have you been drinking again?

JOHN

Bill

2005-10-13, 5:21 am

In article <eq0sk15lsv6f5o875b39fmoidgck1rpifb@4ax.com>,
~^Johnny^~ <nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>
> Absolutely.

Cap tube system. Think about it.

> It is either overcharged, fractionated, or both.

Fractionation almost never occurs in a running system. That's old info.
ICOR has a free seminar and might have one in your area. Check their
website calendar.
Some of the recent information that's available about the newer
refrigerants and oils is worth looking into.
ICOR is coming here next week.
The RSES convention had multiple speakers that addressed the various
issues. Sporlan, ICOR, Zero Zone and National Refrigerants.
The information was excellent!

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-13, 5:21 am

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:31:35 -0400, Bill <bill@hvac2.com> wrote:

>Fractionation almost never occurs in a running system. That's old info.

I'm talking about charging, not running with leaks.
That's another story. :-)

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
~~~~~~~~
The keeper at the gate is blind
so you'd better be prepared to pay
-Steve Earle
~~~~~~~~

Bill

2005-10-13, 5:21 am

In article <7l3sk1tce5obe27aduu8elo1e36u2k587i@4ax.com>,
~^Johnny^~ <nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:31:35 -0400, Bill <bill@hvac2.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm talking about charging, not running with leaks.
> That's another story. :-)

True. :-)

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-13, 5:21 am

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:57:18 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
<nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:

>Icing up at 30 lbs gage on suction tells me the charge is fractionated
>(too much R22). Hotshot is only supposed to be 50% R22.

Funny, the chart I looked it up on told me that was 20 degrees
SST for this refrigerant. Last I heard, you get ice below 32.

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-13, 5:21 am

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:52:18 GMT, ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:57:18 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
><nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>
>
> Funny, the chart I looked it up on told me that was 20 degrees
>SST for this refrigerant. Last I heard, you get ice below 32.

OK, that's SST. But he's running at 30 PSIG, and still icing up.
And is he at sea level? <g>

All joking aside:

Fractionation. Improper charging procedures.
Newly repaired system. No fucking run-time
leaks in the equation!

OK, I could be wrong.
It wouldn't be the first time.

Never mind what Mac Davis said...

Bill

2005-10-13, 7:21 am

In article <11kotkshk38gocf@corp.supernews.com>,
"Jerry Furman" <jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote:

> I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
> been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
> pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
> evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
> evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
> up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
> suggestions?

Post the raw numbers. Liquid line etc. Like the air in and out of
condenser? Need the full list of numbers.

How long ago was the conversion?

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

geoman jr

2005-10-13, 8:21 am

"~^Johnny^~" <nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote in message
news:mhnrk1hee4de1cvqrfavjp1vs2ca9augr2@4ax.com...
> NOTE: This reply applies specifically to the use of Hotshot (R414b):
>
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:09:36 -0400, "geoman jr" <mwalk2@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> You did charge LIQUID into the system, and not GAS, I hope?
>
> What is weird, is, an overcharge shouldn't cause iceing.
> But the temperature glide of a zeotropic blend can be quite befuddling
> at times.
>
> 30 lb suction is too high for 414b for low temp, and could be about
> right for med temp continuous run systems. But systems vary. In any
> event, your coil is =probably= overfeeding. Take out some of the
> refrigerant... from the DRYER TAP or LIQUID LINE.
>
>
> NOTE: With R414b, always charge and discharge LIQUID, NEVER with
> GAS. Otherwise, you run the risk of fractionation, which not only
> will require an evacuation and recharge of the affected system, but
> in extreme cases, can spoil your whole 25 lb can! You can wind up
> with mostly all R22 in your system, and less than 50% R22 in the can.
> This is not good! R22 will ice up at 30 pounds suction, and
> superheat will be real low. Such is fractionation.
>
> Use a charging glass, if possible. Yes, you can still get them. :-)
> By volume, it's close enough to R12 on the scale to be within a half
> an ounce at one pound, plus 17%. If you weigh it in, then you will
> likely be 17% ocvercharged!!! Use the glass, not the scale, and use
> the R12 markings on the glass. Start with a slight undercharge, and
> adjust (add refrigerant if necessary) after a day or so.
>
>
> R414b (aka "Hotshot") is a blend specifically designed as an R12
> replacement. It works great in low temp /med temp R12 boxes.
> I've used Hotshot in quite a few compressor swaps in domestic boxes ,
> and have never had one come back yet.
>
> One caveat is, Hotshot is a blend, as it is nowhere near azetropic,
> and so it is very easy to accidentally overcharge with it, if using
> pressure/superheat as a guide during charging.
>
> Superheat is meaningless in charging a fixed cap tube system, anyway,
> until temps have stabilized, which can take anywhere from 8 to 24
> hours, or maybe longer, so it should be used for *initial charging*
> with many blends such as Hotshot.
>
> I usually kill the evap fan and watch the frost pattern, then start
> the fan, and slowly add a little more Hotshot if needed.
>
> Watch the glass. If you have added 3 lbs to a 2 lb system, and still
> have crazy temps/pressures, well... you shouldn't have gone that far
> in the first place.
>
>
> Bad compressor, probably?
>
>
> I agree.
> Sometimes it's more of a XXXXX to deal with than doing a TXV
> conversion. But that's a catch-22 in and of itself, when dealing
> with zeotropic blends... :-)
>
>
> If we don't LOVE a challenge, then perhaps we shouldn't be doing
> refrigration (especially field retrofitting). <g>
>
We do a lot of conversions and I do enjoy a challenge but sometimes even
the manufacturer will tell you not to fuck with it.The new blends will often
act like a cleaner in the system, cause havoc with already iffy cap tubes,
and guess where else all this scavenged crap is going to end up :-))

>
> IHTH.
>
>
> --
> -john
> wide-open at throttle dot info

geoman jr

2005-10-13, 9:21 am

"geoman jr" <mwalk2@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:SNOdnYVCetpKo9PenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "~^Johnny^~" <nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote in message
> news:mhnrk1hee4de1cvqrfavjp1vs2ca9augr2@4ax.com...
> We do a lot of conversions and I do enjoy a challenge but sometimes even
> the manufacturer will tell you not to fuck with it.The new blends will
> often act like a cleaner in the system, cause havoc with already iffy cap
> tubes, and guess where else all this scavenged crap is going to end up
> :-))
>
Also a constant cut in control with the bulb inserted in the coil may
help in this situation. It will force an off cycle defrost and will not let
the compresser start untill the coil is free of ice ( usually :-) )
>
>

Jerry Furman

2005-10-13, 10:21 am

Sorry not to have added more info sooner. I have been reading the posts and
have learned a little about refrigeration and a lot about human nature. Some
more info. The box is a randell sandwich prep table. It has a cap tube. I
did charge liquid. I am in Kansas and humidity is very high.

TURTLE

2005-10-13, 12:21 pm

"Bill" <bill@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434dfcf8$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <SHj3f.6811$Ls.3454@bignews2.bellsouth.net>,
> "TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> weasel a Low Pressure Control can and is used as a temperature control.
> But not on cap-tube systems.
> Maybe you should read up on where cap-tubes equalize pressure on the off
> cycle.
> Ranco has hundreds of "cold controls". Maybe you should let them know
> how they all work.
> Be sure to tell them you have 45+ years in the trade.
>
>

This is Turtle.

if you knew what was going on you would know what a cold control was and a
pressure controller was and like you and Pie Face don't know the difference.
Also it would take a dumby like Paul to think of putting a pressure controller
on a cap tube for it would be out of the question before you got it out of the
box.

You and the fellow on the end of your dick needs to call Ranco and Johnson
Control and ask them what a cold Control is and what a pressure controller is.
They are not the same as you and your butt buddy thinks. Are you still coming
over this friday to Pauls house to butt fuck him again. he needs it this week
with no sales of the software and being bitched at on the internet.

There is one point before before , I let a fool go here ! You claim to be a
freezer box jockey but you will never get openly get into a discussion of the
operation of the stuff and discuss trouble shooting types. You alway put people
down for what you think is not right but never explain anything. Are you really
in the HVAC or R business at all ? Just wonder !

TURTLE

Geoman1

2005-10-13, 1:21 pm

"geoman jr" <mwalk2@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:AIadnb3jGaCn2dPeRVn-rw@comcast.com...
>
> "geoman jr" <mwalk2@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:SNOdnYVCetpKo9PenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Also a constant cut in control with the bulb inserted in the coil may
> help in this situation. It will force an off cycle defrost and will not
> let the compresser start untill the coil is free of ice ( usually :-) )

Mark, the problem with this is many don't know how to set that scenario up
:-) If they think the coil doesn't go below freezing they will soon learn
by using this method ! :-)

>
>

Jabs

2005-10-13, 3:21 pm

Steve,
Your probably right that the superheat is too low and needs to adjust the
TXV, but I also think he may need to raise the cut-in setting on the his Low
Pressure Control and/or install an off-cycle timer to help assure a complete
off-cycle air-defrost. Also, I can tell that you've never used 414B in a
walk-in cooler because I have found that it performs much better than MP39 &
409A. BTW I used MP39 & 409A for years until I ran into 414B.

Jabs

"Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ruCdnZRckbVu59HeRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> question.... why R-414b?? unless thats all you had.... Personally I like
> to use MP-39 for reach-in cooler replacement for R-12.
> To me, it looks like your superheat is a bit low... maybe bring the SH up
> to 5degrees, then look for a little bigger delta T on the evap.
> is the temp controlled by suction pressure?? or t-stat?? Whats product is
> the cooler being used for??
> While I am at it... is the expantion device a TXV or cap tube(s)??
>
> "Jerry Furman" <jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote in message
> news:11kotkshk38gocf@corp.supernews.com...
>
>

Jabs

2005-10-13, 3:21 pm

Oooops, a 3 door cooler? Never mind my previous reply and used this one
instead:

If it has a cap-tube as a metering-device, and the superheat is only 1½ºF
the system is probably overcharged with refrigerant. Also, the frost and
ice build-up could probably be solved by installing a "constant cut-in"
thermostat (Ranco #A12-700) with the sensing element inserted into the
evaporator coil. It will sense the evaporator temperature and will not
cycle the compressor back on until the evaporator temperature rises up to
37ºF...... regardless of the setting of the thermostat. This assures the
coil temperature raises up to 37ºF before the compressor can cycle back on
(regardless if the setting of the thermostat, whether minimum or maximum
setting) it *constantly* cuts-in at 37ºF. Remember, the sensor needs to be
inserted into the evaporator coil to sense the coil temperature.

Jabs

"Jabs" <NoSpam@NoSpam.Com> wrote in message
news:K_w3f.459$Hs.410@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> Steve,
> Your probably right that the superheat is too low and needs to adjust the
> TXV, but I also think he may need to raise the cut-in setting on the his
> Low Pressure Control and/or install an off-cycle timer to help assure a
> complete off-cycle air-defrost. Also, I can tell that you've never used
> 414B in a walk-in cooler because I have found that it performs much better
> than MP39 & 409A. BTW I used MP39 & 409A for years until I ran into 414B.
>
> Jabs
>
>
>
> "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ruCdnZRckbVu59HeRVn-tw@comcast.com...
>
>

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-13, 3:21 pm

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:40:58 GMT, "Jabs" <NoSpam@NoSpam.Com> wrote:

>Steve,
>Your probably right that the superheat is too low and needs to adjust the
>TXV,

On this CAP TUBE SYSTEM ?????

> but I also think he may need to raise the cut-in setting on the his Low
>Pressure Control and/or install an off-cycle timer to help assure a complete
>off-cycle air-defrost.

My god, jabski, from the depths of your eternal despair, you
finally saw the light and agreed with me !!!! :-)

CONGRATULATIONS !!!!!!

> Also, I can tell that you've never used 414B in a
>walk-in cooler because I have found that it performs much better than MP39 &
>409A. BTW I used MP39 & 409A for years until I ran into 414B.
>
>Jabs
>
>
>
>"Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:ruCdnZRckbVu59HeRVn-tw@comcast.com...
>

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Stormin Mormon

2005-10-13, 4:21 pm

The couple sandwich tables I've serviced (two) have the temp sensor bulb
screwed to the back wall. Try my advice -- you might just find it works.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..

"Jerry Furman" <jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote in message
news:11ksm71g8bb82cc@corp.supernews.com...
Sorry not to have added more info sooner. I have been reading the posts and
have learned a little about refrigeration and a lot about human nature. Some
more info. The box is a randell sandwich prep table. It has a cap tube. I
did charge liquid. I am in Kansas and humidity is very high.

Stormin Mormon

2005-10-13, 4:21 pm

No one has asked -- is it a captube system, or TXV?

What have you done to clean the condensor? That won't help with freezing,
but it will save the customer electricity.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..

"Jerry Furman" <jfurman@tctelco.net> wrote in message
news:11kotkshk38gocf@corp.supernews.com...
I have a 3 door cooler that is freezing up. It is a R-12 system that has
been converted to R-414b. Ambient temp = 80. High pressure =205 psi. Low
pressure = 30 psi. Superheat = 1.5 Subcooling = 8. Drop across the
evaporator 6. Box temp = 36 to 41. There is good air flow through the
evaporator. Under these conditions it runs good for three days then builds
up ice on the evaporator and box temperature climbs. Does anyone have any
suggestions?

PrecisionMachinisT

2005-10-13, 4:21 pm

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_Nx3f.43223$K91.42958@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

>
> No one has asked -- is it a captube system, or TXV?
>

Most everyone here except for you appears to already realize the depth of
your ignorance is bottomless......otherwise, why you would set about proving
this on a daily basis is completely beyond me.

>
> What have you done to clean the condensor? That won't help with freezing,
> but it will save the customer electricity.
>

I know you wanna suggest sanding it down and then spraying acid all over
it--go ahead....might as well.....resistance is futile...

<shrug>

--

SVL

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-13, 5:21 pm

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:49:43 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT"
<precisionmachinist@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:_Nx3f.43223$K91.42958@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
>
>Most everyone here except for you appears to already realize the depth of
>your ignorance is bottomless......otherwise, why you would set about proving
>this on a daily basis is completely beyond me.

Gives him something to do, keeps him off the streets -
overall, a benefit to society.

>
>
>
>I know you wanna suggest sanding it down and then spraying acid all over
>it--go ahead....might as well.....resistance is futile...
>
><shrug>

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Power's Mechanical

2005-10-13, 6:21 pm

>refrigeration is refrigeration.
>I do not know where are you taking readings but your
>bloody superheat is unbelievable unless you want to pump
>the liquid. ideal superheat is around 10 degrees.

Not for refrigeration near a satisfied box, moron. Not even
close.

xxxx

Bullshit XXXXXXX. A txv will have a steady 10 degrees all thought the
run cycle Be specific when you try to show how much you think you
know.

Power's Mechanical

2005-10-13, 6:21 pm

No wonder the union doesn't do commercial refrigeration. LOL

xxxx

Thats what you think. I could run circles around your lame XXX any day
of the week fuck face.

Power's Mechanical

2005-10-13, 6:21 pm

That why you're always on your knee's mikey?

--

xxxx

Look willie junior if you got something to say why dont you drag your
XXX up here and say it in person you little chicken shit cunt.

Bill

2005-10-13, 7:21 pm

In article <1129236274.333933.31180@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Power's Mechanical" <pusher100@hotmail.com> wrote:

> No wonder the union doesn't do commercial refrigeration. LOL
>
>
> xxxx
>
> Thats what you think. I could run circles around your lame XXX any day
> of the week fuck face.

Putting LPC's on cap-tube systems? lol. Go back to school idiot.

If not for your steward duties you would be warming the bench mikey.

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

Bill

2005-10-13, 7:21 pm

In article <1129236404.272127.139130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Power's Mechanical" <pusher100@hotmail.com> wrote:

> That why you're always on your knee's mikey?
>
> --
>
>
> xxxx
>
> Look willie junior if you got something to say why dont you drag your
> XXX up here and say it in person you little chicken shit cunt.

FOD mikey. You are a POS and not worth anybody's time.

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

Bill

2005-10-13, 7:21 pm

In article <0su3f.6955$Ls.4442@bignews2.bellsouth.net>,
"TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> This is Turtle.
>
> if you knew what was going on you would know what a cold control was and a
> pressure controller was and like you and Pie Face don't know the difference.
snipped weasels usual stupidity and bullshit

> There is one point before before , I let a fool go here ! You claim to be a
> freezer box jockey but you will never get openly get into a discussion of the
> operation of the stuff and discuss trouble shooting types. You alway put
> people
> down for what you think is not right but never explain anything. Are you
> really
> in the HVAC or R business at all ? Just wonder !

Isn't my job to train your ignorant XXX weasel. You're too cheap and too
stupid to learn so why waste my breath.
You said you are content to be a hack. So be it.

I learned there are two rules in life.
Rule #1: Don't tell people everything you know.

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-13, 8:21 pm

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:11:06 -0400, Bill <bill@hvac2.com> wrote:

>In article <0su3f.6955$Ls.4442@bignews2.bellsouth.net>,
> "TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> snipped weasels usual stupidity and bullshit
>
>
>Isn't my job to train your ignorant XXX weasel. You're too cheap and too
>stupid to learn so why waste my breath.
>You said you are content to be a hack. So be it.
>
>I learned there are two rules in life.
>Rule #1: Don't tell people everything you know.

What if Rule # 1 **IS** all someone knows ????

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Bill

2005-10-13, 8:21 pm

In article <vantk1p2lv26d56c04penennc2ph1b57nm@4ax.com>,
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:

>
> What if Rule # 1 **IS** all someone knows ????

You wind up in a Louisiana swamp hacking shit up.

--

Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

TURTLE

2005-10-13, 10:21 pm

"Bill" <bill@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434e05d9$1_2@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <RHj3f.6810$Ls.4480@bignews2.bellsouth.net>,
> "TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> weasel you're a pathetic old hack. You aren't even faintly amusing.
>
> Paul will always run circles around your ignorant XXX weasel because you
> are a hack.

Snip the Bullshit.

This is Turtle.

I can see where you will stand up for pie face because he being your lover. i
think you should go back to women and see for it is much better in respect when
it is known. But if not the best of wishes to the two of you.

TURTLE

TURTLE

2005-10-13, 10:21 pm

"Bill" <bill@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434e0267$1_4@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <kIWdneDgaZoT3dDeRVn-2Q@comcast.com>,
> "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Like a LPC on a cap-tube system? Explain how that works noonie.
>
> Then you can explain how to set up a box for 34 - 38 degrees @ 90 - 95%
> RH.
>
> You can barely handle residential noonie, so this should be good.
>
> Use all the blank space below here that you need.
>

This is Turtle.

what you don't know about --- Don't try to explain it to others.

TURTLE

TURTLE

2005-10-13, 10:21 pm

"Bill" <bill@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434ede89$1_1@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <vantk1p2lv26d56c04penennc2ph1b57nm@4ax.com>,
> ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>
>
> You wind up in a Louisiana swamp hacking shit up.
>

This is Turtle.

You have to know how it should be done correctly before you can know what a hack
job it. So that leaves you out.

TURTLE

TURTLE

2005-10-13, 10:21 pm

"Bill" <bill@hvac2.com> wrote in message news:434df988$1_5@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In article <VvCdnc1ZxYKCuNDeRVn-oQ@comcast.com>,
> "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Not on a cap tube system. As soon as it shuts off the pressures equalize
> and kicks it right back on.
>
> You, weasel and mikey are entertaining. Should be even funnier watching
> you tap dance out of this one.
>

this is Turtle.

No Billy Bob ,I'm not explaining to you how to work on this type of equipment
for you could not do it right if I told you so.

TURTLE

TURTLE

2005-10-13, 10:21 pm

"~^Johnny^~" <nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote in message
news:5o1sk11spf2s1ev9gih7310m3alupu2oue@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:11:16 -0500, "TURTLE"
> <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> This is John
>
> Hey, Terry, what has all your BS got to do with the REAL problem?
> The OP has a specific scenario, which you fail to address.
>
> I've seen you give intelligent answers before, but they have been few
> and far between, and this isn't one of them.
>
> You seem to be too busy arguing semantics, and flaming, and
> generally being a smartass.
>
> Have you been drinking again?
>
>
> JOHN

This is Turtle.

So if you can figure out what his problem is please tell it to use. Everything I
have heard here is guesses and i don't like guessing .

OH , when a few XXXXXXX of the group claim fame and start flaming i will flame
back. One More I have never seen you say a work back to Paul or Billy bob when
they flame or are you scared of the PBBS club ?

TURTLE

Cooltemp Industries

2005-10-13, 10:21 pm

TURTLE wrote:

> I can see where you will stand up for pie face because he being your lover. i
> think you should go back to