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Home > Archive > Heating and air conditioning > October 2005 > Why do furnaces cost so much to install?
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Why do furnaces cost so much to install?
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| A typical $600-700 furnace costs up to $3000 to install. That is about
$287/hour to install in one 8 hr day. My mechanic charges $60/hr with
much higher overhead (ie: shop lease, equipment, staff overhead)
Why is this?
Are HVAC contractors less than honest?
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| American Mechanical 2005-10-19, 9:21 am |
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"Fred" <zzz@xxx.com> wrote in message news:%qm5f.43234$ir4.30968@edtnps90...
|A typical $600-700 furnace costs up to $3000 to install. That is about
| $287/hour to install in one 8 hr day. My mechanic charges $60/hr with
| much higher overhead (ie: shop lease, equipment, staff overhead)
|
| Why is this?
|
| Are HVAC contractors less than honest?
Other than the fact that you're trolling, you wouldn't know overhead if it
walked up and kicked you. My work comp is probably more than your annual
salary.
- Robert
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| Steve Scott 2005-10-19, 10:21 am |
| What makes you think your HVAC contractor has less overhead?
This is a mistake most small HVAC contractors make. They assume they
have less overhead than bigger shops. While it's probably true they
have less dollar overhead they usually have a much smaller base to
spread the OH onto. Meaning the HVAC contractor has a higher per hour
overhead.
Does your mechanic charge flat or book rate?
If they do you're paying at least double the posted rate per hour.
Does your mechanic guarantee his work of a year minimum?
Does your mechanic make house calls?
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 07:18:19 GMT, Fred <zzz@xxx.com> wrote:
>A typical $600-700 furnace costs up to $3000 to install. That is about
>$287/hour to install in one 8 hr day. My mechanic charges $60/hr with
>much higher overhead (ie: shop lease, equipment, staff overhead)
>
>Why is this?
>
>Are HVAC contractors less than honest?
--
Politicians and diapers need changing
often for similar reasons.
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| In article <%qm5f.43234$ir4.30968@edtnps90>, Fred <zzz@xxx.com> wrote:
> A typical $600-700 furnace costs up to $3000 to install. That is about
> $287/hour to install in one 8 hr day. My mechanic charges $60/hr with
> much higher overhead (ie: shop lease, equipment, staff overhead)
>
> Why is this?
>
> Are HVAC contractors less than honest?
No, but you are. Throw a engine or a transmission in there.
Have the mechanic make house calls to do the job then you have a valid
comparison.
Suddenly it's a different animal.
There is a new plenum you didn't deduct or a return or a filter rack or
vent pipe or chimney liner or incidentals like gas pipe electrical,
hardware etc.
Almost everyone uses a helper too. Some always change the thermostat to
get rid of the mercury one. We'll leave the thermostat off though since
your XXX squeaks.
Tax on that 700.00 furnace here is 49.00
Lets call the materials 300.00 and of course the tax of 21.00.
You did run a chimney liner right?
Say the labor charges are 70 hour and 50 for a helper. 960.00 and of
course tax 67.20. I'll use the industry billable time average of 50%,
which is 1000 hours of billable time a year. For some reason most people
expect to work 40 hours a week or at least be paid for 40.
So that 70 and 50 an hour is actually 35 and 25.
That mechanic is scheduling 40 hours of billable time. If he went mobile
his rates would double at least. No way he could get 40 billable then.
That 70 and 50 an hour cover things like going to pick up and deliver
your furnace, stopping and getting gas, doing your estimate and load
calc and all the other things we do that aren't billable that take time
out of our day.
So we are up to 2097.20. So it looks like 902.80 in profit eh?
If you're incorporated you're getting slapped with at least 40% taxes.
Required training to maintain your license and optional training to get
or maintain competency isn't free. Tool's aren't either but everything
we do or use has to be paid by the customer. We do this full time as the
thing that pays our bills and puts food on the table.
I supposed you can get a moonlighter who does HVAC on the "side" but you
can see pictures of that type of work at hvac-talk. Most legitimate
contractors bid against "Bubba" who'll do it for a six pack and $200.
The safeties usually protect most customers from these untrained idiots
Even if we walked away with $500 clear. We stand behind the install for
a year.
I'm not going to flesh this out any more but you only want to compare
what we do against either what you make or what someone else makes.
I'd like to see a car mechanic come out after hours to do their job.
Maybe the next time the refrigeration goes down on a weekend at your
local food store we'll just wait till Monday to repair it. I'm sure you
won't mind till Tuesday or Wednesday to get your milk. Think they'll
need a fresh shipment by then? Or is Monday delivery day?
--
A Professional is someone who does a good job even when they don't feel like it.
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| BullyJo 2005-10-19, 1:21 pm |
| Damn Fred,
We can't help it if your $60-an-hour-auto-mechanic isn't charging you
enough!
I wonder; have you ever seen an auto mechanic that owns or drives a new car?
......neither have I. Now we know why!
Jabs
"Fred" <zzz@xxx.com> wrote in message news:%qm5f.43234$ir4.30968@edtnps90...
>A typical $600-700 furnace costs up to $3000 to install. That is about
>$287/hour to install in one 8 hr day. My mechanic charges $60/hr with much
>higher overhead (ie: shop lease, equipment, staff overhead)
>
> Why is this?
>
> Are HVAC contractors less than honest?
| |
| Geoman1 2005-10-19, 7:21 pm |
|
"American Mechanical" <info@NOamericanSPAMmech.net> wrote in message
news:h7q5f.5052$7h7.394@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Fred" <zzz@xxx.com> wrote in message
> news:%qm5f.43234$ir4.30968@edtnps90...
> |A typical $600-700 furnace costs up to $3000 to install. That is about
> | $287/hour to install in one 8 hr day. My mechanic charges $60/hr with
> | much higher overhead (ie: shop lease, equipment, staff overhead)
> |
> | Why is this?
> |
> | Are HVAC contractors less than honest?
>
> Other than the fact that you're trolling, you wouldn't know overhead if it
> walked up and kicked you. My work comp is probably more than your annual
> salary.
>
> - Robert
Phone book listing in 20 different places cost $$$$$$$$$
The auto mechanic can tell you it will be done next week, how many furnace
companies would be in business if they didn't fix a problem right away?
The auto mechanic can schedule a day off, we can't. its 24-7 including
holidays.
Workers comp is in the highest rating for our type of work.
Liability insurance is the highest in our business.
Each worker requires about $50,000 in vehicles, stock and equipment just to
drive to your home.
Our equipment wears out because its handled dozens of times more than other
trades and are exposed to rain, snow and heat.
We require communications between each and every worker and can't shout
across the room like a car mechanic in a building.
Auto insurance is HIGH HIGH HIGH due to miles driven per year
This guy has no idea what its like at all, and the auto dealers salesman
make tons of money and for what? To tell you how great of a deal your
getting? We have to crawl on our stomachs, wade in water and every other
crap. So, don't call us dishonest, instead a proper term would be stupid for
not charging more!
Rich
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| B-Hate-Me 2005-10-20, 1:21 pm |
|
"Fred" <zzz@xxx.com> wrote in message news:%qm5f.43234$ir4.30968@edtnps90...
>A typical $600-700 furnace costs up to $3000 to install. That is about
>$287/hour to install in one 8 hr day. My mechanic charges $60/hr with much
>higher overhead (ie: shop lease, equipment, staff overhead)
>
> Why is this?
>
> Are HVAC contractors less than honest?
How much do you make per hour?
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| Noon-Air 2005-10-20, 2:21 pm |
|
"B-Hate-Me" <BHateMe@home> wrote in message
news:T4OdnVgUZZseJcreRVn-2Q@comcast.com...
>
> "Fred" <zzz@xxx.com> wrote in message
> news:%qm5f.43234$ir4.30968@edtnps90...
>
> How much do you make per hour?
And how much is his employer charging per hour for him??
The local car dealer charges me $85/hr for their mechanics labor.... why are
the mechaincs driving around in old cars and living in mobile homes??
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| ~^Johnny^~ 2005-10-21, 10:21 am |
| On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 07:18:19 GMT, Fred <zzz@xxx.com> wrote:
>A typical $600-700 furnace costs up to $3000 to install. That is about
>$287/hour to install in one 8 hr day.
That just goes to show:
Never rent an un-furnaced apartment!
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
~~~~~~~~
"When the world was flat as a pancake,
Mona Lisa was happy as a clam." - John Prine
~~~~~~~~
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| ~^Johnny^~ 2005-10-21, 10:21 am |
| On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:17:31 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net>
wrote:
>The local car dealer charges me $85/hr for their mechanics labor.... why are
>the mechaincs driving around in old cars and living in mobile homes??
Because a real mechanic drives around in the worst piece of shit there
is, blowing blue smoke out the exhaust, with body parts tied on with
household 12 gauge copper wire, etc...
A good shadetree mechanic can keep his own car running, but at the
expense of others. He is too busy hepling others.
OTOH, the ASE Certified tech, well... he's too busy helping himself
(worrying about his job, family, business, overhead, etc...)
Hey! You asked. :-)
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
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| ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2005-10-21, 10:21 am |
| On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 05:56:53 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
<nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 07:18:19 GMT, Fred <zzz@xxx.com> wrote:
>
>
>That just goes to show:
>Never rent an un-furnaced apartment!
That was Soooo bad :-)
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| ~^Johnny^~ 2005-10-21, 10:21 am |
| Yes: I was being sarcastic.
On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 06:03:10 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
<nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:17:31 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>Because a real mechanic drives around in the worst piece of shit there
>is, blowing blue smoke out the exhaust, with body parts tied on with
>household 12 gauge copper wire, etc...
>
>A good shadetree mechanic can keep his own car running, but at the
>expense of others. He is too busy hepling others.
>
>OTOH, the ASE Certified tech, well... he's too busy helping himself
>(worrying about his job, family, business, overhead, etc...)
>
>
>
>
>Hey! You asked. :-)
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
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| Steve Scott 2005-10-21, 6:21 pm |
| The local car dealer charges $85 per flat rate or book hour. Any
mechanic worth their salt can produce 80 hours in a 40 hour week. So
that's really $170 in a business with less OH per productive man-hour.
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:17:31 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net>
wrote:
>The local car dealer charges me $85/hr for their mechanics labor.... why are
>the mechaincs driving around in old cars and living in mobile homes??
--
'I'm heavily armed, easily bored and
OFF my medication...'
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| ~^Johnny^~ 2005-10-22, 11:21 pm |
| On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:10:03 GMT, Steve Scott <sscott1@twcny.rr.com>
wrote:
>The local car dealer charges $85 per flat rate or book hour. Any
>mechanic worth their salt can produce 80 hours in a 40 hour week. So
>that's really $170 in a business with less OH per productive man-hour.
Can you say "organized racket"?
I'm just a shadetree mechanic when it comes to autos, and if I can
beat the book on clutch jobs, axle R&R, steering box R&R, on
certain cars, then just about ANY mickey-mouse shop can beat the book
by 50%, of *routine* jobs. But then there's always that occasional
wolf note, where you will be cussing the flat rate at every turn of
the wrench and bust of the knuckle. The shop loses on THAT job, but
still, overall, makes 33% to 50% on the average, by flat rate
alone.
This is why I learned to work on my own vehicles, back in my high
school days. When something goes wrong, I can usually fix it (But
with today's engines and computers, it does get a little bit
tougher... $300 or more for a scan tool, and everything is
potted/protected against "reverse engineering", electronics-wise...
and then there's those goddamn VAT chips imbedded in the ignition
keys...).
feh
The shop wins. ;`(
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
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| Steve Scott 2005-10-23, 12:21 am |
| I would say they know what their expenses are and charge accordingly.
Remember something like 95% of all new businesses fail in the first 5
years. It ain't cause they're charging too much.
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:36:25 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
<nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:10:03 GMT, Steve Scott <sscott1@twcny.rr.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>Can you say "organized racket"?
>
>I'm just a shadetree mechanic when it comes to autos, and if I can
>beat the book on clutch jobs, axle R&R, steering box R&R, on
>certain cars, then just about ANY mickey-mouse shop can beat the book
>by 50%, of *routine* jobs. But then there's always that occasional
>wolf note, where you will be cussing the flat rate at every turn of
>the wrench and bust of the knuckle. The shop loses on THAT job, but
>still, overall, makes 33% to 50% on the average, by flat rate
>alone.
>
>This is why I learned to work on my own vehicles, back in my high
>school days. When something goes wrong, I can usually fix it (But
>with today's engines and computers, it does get a little bit
>tougher... $300 or more for a scan tool, and everything is
>potted/protected against "reverse engineering", electronics-wise...
>and then there's those goddamn VAT chips imbedded in the ignition
>keys...).
>
>feh
>
>The shop wins. ;`(
--
The mass of mankind was not born with
saddles on their backs, nor a favored
few booted and spurred, ready to ride
them legitimately, by the grace of God.
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| ~^Johnny^~ 2005-10-23, 2:21 am |
| On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 02:56:41 GMT, Steve Scott <sscott1@twcny.rr.com>
wrote:
>I would say they know what their expenses are and charge accordingly.
>Remember something like 95% of all new businesses fail in the first 5
>years. It ain't cause they're charging too much.
True indeed, especially of restaurants. This is what scared me away
from the restaurant business, some 20 years ago. Insurance premiums
are astronomical! It's just as bad with auto repair - screw up
someone's brakes, and you are looking at a wrongful death civil suit,
and possibly manslaughter (negligent homicide).
Covering one's XXX is never cheap these days. George Bush (not
Dub'ya) hit that one on the head: The cost of malpractice insurance
is so damned high that medical costs are taking a BIG hit. No one
wants to practice anymore, with all the deep pocket sharks out
there... unless they charge accordingly. And that hurts the patient.
People are just too damned sue-happy.
So you *do* have a valid argument.
But, it's still wrong... and no, you're not wrong,
but the system still is, IMHO.
And I don't like price gouging, any more than I like extortion or
blackmail.
But alas, greed hath overtaken us, and we must now suffer the
consequences thereof.
[color=darkred]
>
>On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:36:25 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
><nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:
>
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
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| R. Pierce Butler 2005-10-23, 10:21 am |
| Fred <zzz@xxx.com> wrote in news:%qm5f.43234$ir4.30968@edtnps90:
> A typical $600-700 furnace costs up to $3000 to install. That is about
> $287/hour to install in one 8 hr day. My mechanic charges $60/hr with
> much higher overhead (ie: shop lease, equipment, staff overhead)
>
> Why is this?
>
> Are HVAC contractors less than honest?
Fred,
New construction? Old? Duct work?
If it is truly a furnace without AC, maybe the quote you got was from a
contractor that didn't want the job.
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