Heating and air conditioning - Please help -- need to install float switch

Author

Please help -- need to install float switch

John

2005-10-20, 1:21 pm

Hi! I just bought a townhouse and the float switch to the AC unit has
been disconnected. It's a Carrier Model FB4A. I've got the float
switch. Can someone please give me instructions on how to reattach
it?? Thank you!!!!

-John

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-20, 2:21 pm

On 20 Oct 2005 08:41:34 -0700, "John" <johnmhildreth@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hi! I just bought a townhouse and the float switch to the AC unit has
>been disconnected. It's a Carrier Model FB4A. I've got the float
>switch. Can someone please give me instructions on how to reattach
>it?? Thank you!!!!

Look for HVAC contractors in the Yellow pages.

Otherwise, post home-owner shit in alt.home.repair, not here.

>
>
>-John

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Stormin Mormon

2005-10-20, 4:21 pm

Should be a couple little wires there -- wire nut em on.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..

"John" <johnmhildreth@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129822894.901024.99740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Hi! I just bought a townhouse and the float switch to the AC unit has
been disconnected. It's a Carrier Model FB4A. I've got the float
switch. Can someone please give me instructions on how to reattach
it?? Thank you!!!!

-John

Carolina Breeze HVAC

2005-10-20, 4:21 pm

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5IR5f.73713$Xl2.48357@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> Should be a couple little wires there -- wire nut em on.
>
> --

And he should do it to the green wires right Stormy?

>
> Christopher A. Young
> Do good work.
> It's longer in the short run
> but shorter in the long run.
> .
> .
>
>
> "John" <johnmhildreth@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1129822894.901024.99740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi! I just bought a townhouse and the float switch to the AC unit has
> been disconnected. It's a Carrier Model FB4A. I've got the float
> switch. Can someone please give me instructions on how to reattach
> it?? Thank you!!!!
>
>
> -John
>
>

John

2005-10-20, 5:21 pm

ooohhh, Mr. Mensa! So much smarter than the rest of us. Go cornhole
one of your cats!

...p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On 20 Oct 2005 08:41:34 -0700, "John" <johnmhildreth@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Look for HVAC contractors in the Yellow pages.
>
> Otherwise, post home-owner shit in alt.home.repair, not here.
>
>
>
>
>
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-20, 6:21 pm

Go read my resume a few more times, and see if you can figure
some simple shit like wiring a float switch all by yourself.

Here's a hint- there are only 2 wires, and it don't matter if
you get them backwards.

Still too complicated for you though, XXXXXXX.

On 20 Oct 2005 13:08:53 -0700, "John" <johnmhildreth@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=darkred]
>ooohhh, Mr. Mensa! So much smarter than the rest of us. Go cornhole
>one of your cats!
>
>
>..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

John

2005-10-20, 7:21 pm

Does Jon Ayers know what a sad, balding, old turd you are? And a cat
man?? What's that all about? I guess my previous post hit a little
too close to home eh?

...p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> Go read my resume a few more times, and see if you can figure
> some simple shit like wiring a float switch all by yourself.
>
> Here's a hint- there are only 2 wires, and it don't matter if
> you get them backwards.
>
> Still too complicated for you though, XXXXXXX.
>
>
> On 20 Oct 2005 13:08:53 -0700, "John" <johnmhildreth@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Oscar_Lives

2005-10-21, 12:21 am

"John" <johnmhildreth@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129822894.901024.99740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi! I just bought a townhouse and the float switch to the AC unit has
> been disconnected. It's a Carrier Model FB4A. I've got the float
> switch. Can someone please give me instructions on how to reattach
> it?? Thank you!!!!
>
>
> -John

Yes they can.

Oscar_Lives

2005-10-21, 12:21 am

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" <steve@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:TVR5f.111$EP6.646@eagle.america.net...
>
> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5IR5f.73713$Xl2.48357@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> And he should do it to the green wires right Stormy?

Green means go, right?

>
>
>

Carolina Breeze HVAC

2005-10-21, 12:21 am

"Oscar_Lives" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:bDY5f.261709$084.225856@attbi_s22...
>
> "Carolina Breeze HVAC" <steve@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
> news:TVR5f.111$EP6.646@eagle.america.net...
>
>
> Green means go, right?

In Stormys world...ANYTHING is possible.....
Just dont confuse him with a heat pump wiring diagram...the purple wire
really throws him and god help you if there is a grey one in there.....

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

B-Hate-Me

2005-10-21, 3:21 pm

"Carolina Breeze HVAC" <steve@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:KKY5f.139$EP6.818@eagle.america.net...
>
> In Stormys world...ANYTHING is possible.....
> Just dont confuse him with a heat pump wiring diagram...the purple wire
> really throws him and god help you if there is a grey one in there.....
>

Just slap a used cap (size does NOT matter) on that sucker and
you're good to go....'Cept if it's GE of course.

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-10-21, 3:21 pm

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:46:32 -0400, "B-Hate-Me" <BHateMe@home> wrote:

>
>"Carolina Breeze HVAC" <steve@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
>news:KKY5f.139$EP6.818@eagle.america.net...
>
>Just slap a used cap (size does NOT matter) on that sucker and
>you're good to go....'Cept if it's GE of course.
>

Make sure to sand it down and spray acid on it first.

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Oscar_Lives

2005-10-21, 9:21 pm

<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:d5bil19mmuvb82to7pgcu7dsmgp5jft1o4@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:46:32 -0400, "B-Hate-Me" <BHateMe@home> wrote:
>
>
> Make sure to sand it down and spray acid on it first.

and put pieces of copper pipe in the fuse box....

>
>
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Jake

2005-10-21, 9:21 pm

Oscar_Lives wrote:
> <..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> news:d5bil19mmuvb82to7pgcu7dsmgp5jft1o4@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> and put pieces of copper pipe in the fuse box....
>
>

....and WD40 on EVERYTHING....

Jake

Bill

2005-10-21, 10:21 pm

In article <xSe6f.263193$084.193743@attbi_s22>,
"Oscar_Lives" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> and put pieces of copper pipe in the fuse box....

Try some Louisiana fuses.

http://www.hvac2.com/images/Louisiana-fuses.gif

--

A Professional is someone who does a good job even when they don't feel like it.

TURTLE

2005-10-22, 1:21 am

"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:ief6f.501806$xm3.60568@attbi_s21...
> Oscar_Lives wrote:
>
>
> ...and WD40 on EVERYTHING....
>
> Jake
>

This is Turtle.

Now Jake I can remember the old days in collage when I had a stereo and record
player and evey 30 days I had to pull the bottom on it and spray it down with
WD-40 and the put it back together to keep it from shorting out or not playing.
I had the stereo for 2 years and sprayed it down every 30 days. If we was having
a blow out , I would spray it early.

That WD-40 was some good stuff to keep the relay board from shorting out or not
playing.

Also a fellow showed me a trick about WD-40. He took a 110 volt furnace whip and
plugged it into the wall plug. He then spraied the ends of the nake wires with
WD-40 and then stuck the nake wires in the a glass of tap water. They did not
short out at all and then he took another 110 volt furnace whip the same but did
not spray the WD-40 on the nake wires and then stuck the nake wires in the glass
of tap water. The water begin to fuzz up and you could see the electric arks in
the water. Just having WD-40 on a wire will keep it from shorting out in tap
water.

TURTLE

Oscar_Lives

2005-10-22, 1:21 am

"TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:7qi6f.1083$BW5.124@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:ief6f.501806$xm3.60568@attbi_s21...
>
> This is Turtle.
>
> Now Jake I can remember the old days in collage when I had a stereo and
> record player and evey 30 days I had to pull the bottom on it and spray it
> down with WD-40 and the put it back together to keep it from shorting out
> or not playing. I had the stereo for 2 years and sprayed it down every 30
> days. If we was having a blow out , I would spray it early.
>
> That WD-40 was some good stuff to keep the relay board from shorting out
> or not playing.
>
> Also a fellow showed me a trick about WD-40. He took a 110 volt furnace
> whip and plugged it into the wall plug. He then spraied the ends of the
> nake wires with WD-40 and then stuck the nake wires in the a glass of tap
> water. They did not short out at all and then he took another 110 volt
> furnace whip the same but did not spray the WD-40 on the nake wires and
> then stuck the nake wires in the glass of tap water. The water begin to
> fuzz up and you could see the electric arks in the water. Just having
> WD-40 on a wire will keep it from shorting out in tap water.
>
> TURTLE

Yeah, it is like that WD-40 stuff kind of displaces the water!

Al Moran

2005-10-22, 1:21 am

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:45:20 -0500, "TURTLE"
<turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Just having WD-40 on a wire will keep it from shorting out in tap
>water.
>
>TURTLE
>

Where do you come up with these hair-brained ideas? Stupid is as
stupid does.

TURTLE

2005-10-22, 1:21 am

"Al Moran" <almoran@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o1djl1tht652ikskudu48th9ssivfc4uf1@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:45:20 -0500, "TURTLE"
> <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Where do you come up with these hair-brained ideas? Stupid is as
> stupid does.

This is Turtle.

i had a hand like you a few years ago and had to fire him because he was just
too smart to work in the business like you. Son Grow Up.

TURTLE

Carolina Breeze HVAC

2005-10-22, 1:21 am

"TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:7qi6f.1083$BW5.124@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:ief6f.501806$xm3.60568@attbi_s21...
>
> This is Turtle.
>
> Now Jake I can remember the old days in collage when I had a stereo and
> record player and evey 30 days I had to pull the bottom on it and spray it
> down with WD-40 and the put it back together to keep it from shorting out
> or not playing. I had the stereo for 2 years and sprayed it down every 30
> days. If we was having a blow out , I would spray it early.
>
> That WD-40 was some good stuff to keep the relay board from shorting out
> or not playing.
>
> Also a fellow showed me a trick about WD-40. He took a 110 volt furnace
> whip and plugged it into the wall plug. He then spraied the ends of the
> nake wires with WD-40 and then stuck the nake wires in the a glass of tap
> water. They did not short out at all and then he took another 110 volt
> furnace whip the same but did not spray the WD-40 on the nake wires and
> then stuck the nake wires in the glass of tap water. The water begin to
> fuzz up and you could see the electric arks in the water. Just having
> WD-40 on a wire will keep it from shorting out in tap water.
>
> TURTLE
>

You sure he wasnt using condensate water? LOLOLOL

Jake

2005-10-22, 2:21 am

> You sure he wasnt using condensate water? LOLOLOL
>
>

Funny story I have to relate because it happened just today and kinda
relates to this.. sort of.

Got a trouble call on a big 150 hp dust collector fan that runs at 480.
Went out and found A and C phase fuses blown.

Opened the disco and megged it out.... some nutty readings on the load
side... the wire was wet going up to the tower where the fan motor is
located.

Blew the conduit with a heater designed for the purpose... test again...
OK now. Re-fuse and energize.

The cover on the motor starter, which was closed but not secure....
flashed and gave me a awful bruise on my knee when it 'came open'. The
flash was incredible for 480.

Checked the fuses again... now A phase is out again. Climb the tower and
separate the motor leads... motor checks OK with the megger. Go back and
check at the starter load side... OK again. Check the line side... with
the disco off... and get nutty readings AGAIN.... damn!

The line side goes from the fuse block to the line side of the
starter...no farther.. less than a foot.

Tore the starter down and cleaned everything.... re-torqued
everything... test again... OK.

Put a new fuse in and.... BANG....

OK, I'm pissed now. I go out and get and our transformer megger and set
it to 5,000 V. Do a ground check and all is well.

I clip one lead to A phase and start probing around the starter... there
are arcs going every which direction. I start asking questions.

A week ago, this plant had a filter failure in the dust collector...
which resulted in a large quantity of metal-laden crap being deposited
in the general area of the collector... including our control panel.
Then high humidity took over and rusted it into the arc shields of a
$3,000 contactor.

We took the contactor out of the control center.... used my Dremel and
polishing compound cleaning everything again with large amounts of
contact cleaner and compressed air.... and upon re-install... it tested
OK... again.

I said... hell.... let 'er rip, boys! They were a little gun shy by now
but we re-fused and that big fan took off.

Sometimes, electricity can be sneaky.... I would have never found that
fault had I not shot 5 kV through the thing. My Fluke said all was well.

Jake

Oscar_Lives

2005-10-22, 2:21 am

"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:yrj6f.502757$xm3.379661@attbi_s21...
>
>
> Funny story I have to relate because it happened just today and kinda
> relates to this.. sort of.
>
> Got a trouble call on a big 150 hp dust collector fan that runs at 480.
> Went out and found A and C phase fuses blown.
>
> Opened the disco and megged it out.... some nutty readings on the load
> side... the wire was wet going up to the tower where the fan motor is
> located.
>
> Blew the conduit with a heater designed for the purpose... test again...
> OK now. Re-fuse and energize.
>
> The cover on the motor starter, which was closed but not secure....
> flashed and gave me a awful bruise on my knee when it 'came open'. The
> flash was incredible for 480.
>
> Checked the fuses again... now A phase is out again. Climb the tower and
> separate the motor leads... motor checks OK with the megger. Go back and
> check at the starter load side... OK again. Check the line side... with
> the disco off... and get nutty readings AGAIN.... damn!
>
> The line side goes from the fuse block to the line side of the
> starter...no farther.. less than a foot.
>
> Tore the starter down and cleaned everything.... re-torqued everything...
> test again... OK.
>
> Put a new fuse in and.... BANG....
>
> OK, I'm pissed now. I go out and get and our transformer megger and set it
> to 5,000 V. Do a ground check and all is well.
>
> I clip one lead to A phase and start probing around the starter... there
> are arcs going every which direction. I start asking questions.
>
> A week ago, this plant had a filter failure in the dust collector... which
> resulted in a large quantity of metal-laden crap being deposited in the
> general area of the collector... including our control panel. Then high
> humidity took over and rusted it into the arc shields of a $3,000
> contactor.
>
> We took the contactor out of the control center.... used my Dremel and
> polishing compound cleaning everything again with large amounts of contact
> cleaner and compressed air.... and upon re-install... it tested OK...
> again.
>
> I said... hell.... let 'er rip, boys! They were a little gun shy by now
> but we re-fused and that big fan took off.
>
> Sometimes, electricity can be sneaky.... I would have never found that
> fault had I not shot 5 kV through the thing. My Fluke said all was well.
>
> Jake

You should have just hit it with a belt sander and some murrain acid...

PrecisionMachinisT

2005-10-22, 3:21 am

"Oscar_Lives" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:Itj6f.264081$084.68841@attbi_s22...
>
> "Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:yrj6f.502757$xm3.379661@attbi_s21...
everything...[color=darkred]
it[color=darkred]
which[color=darkred]
contact[color=darkred]
>
> You should have just hit it with a belt sander and some murrain acid...
>

Probly tungsten contacts....wouldn't even phase it.

My bets that Jake has some kinda 'special paste'...

--

SVL

Bill

2005-10-22, 2:21 pm

In article <o1djl1tht652ikskudu48th9ssivfc4uf1@4ax.com>,
Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:45:20 -0500, "TURTLE"
> <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Where do you come up with these hair-brained ideas? Stupid is as
> stupid does.

The "furnace whip" doesn't meet code anywhere I know of. More hack shit.

--

A Professional is someone who does a good job even when they don't feel like it.

TURTLE

2005-10-22, 11:21 pm

> The "furnace whip" doesn't meet code anywhere I know of. More hack shit.
>

This is Turtle.

Well Billy Bob , the Louisiana state fire marshal says that gas furnace with 110
volt whips are acceptiable on any residentiual or lite commercial jobs on gas
furnaces of 150K heat & 5 tons cooling or less. Now that you do light reach in
cooler jobs and rarely ever see a ruling on gas furnaces. I would think you
would not see any ruling on these whips , if ever , in your life. Well all I can
say here is , your just bullshit as usely. OH, you better get over to the thread
on respect of the group for your lover Paul is getting beat up.

Also Billy Bob , All those 1 to 2 door coolers that are 115 volts have a 115
volt plug on them for. is it for you to cut the plug off and run conduit to it
or to just plug it in with ?

TURTLE

Bill

2005-10-23, 1:21 am

In article <nFB6f.2115$Pp1.74@bignews3.bellsouth.net>,
"TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
> This is Turtle.
>
> Well Billy Bob , the Louisiana state fire marshal says that gas furnace with
> 110
> volt whips are acceptiable on any residentiual or lite commercial jobs on gas

Hack shit like I said weasel. Next thing you'll claim the Board of
Health ok's using plastic for plenums.

--

A Professional is someone who does a good job even when they don't feel like it.

R. Pierce Butler

2005-10-23, 9:21 am

Jake <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in news:yrj6f.502757$xm3.379661
@attbi_s21:

>
>
> Funny story I have to relate because it happened just today and kinda
> relates to this.. sort of.
>
> Got a trouble call on a big 150 hp dust collector fan that runs at 480.
> Went out and found A and C phase fuses blown.
>
> Opened the disco and megged it out.... some nutty readings on the load
> side... the wire was wet going up to the tower where the fan motor is
> located.
>
> Blew the conduit with a heater designed for the purpose... test again...
> OK now. Re-fuse and energize.
>
> The cover on the motor starter, which was closed but not secure....
> flashed and gave me a awful bruise on my knee when it 'came open'. The
> flash was incredible for 480.
>
> Checked the fuses again... now A phase is out again. Climb the tower and
> separate the motor leads... motor checks OK with the megger. Go back and
> check at the starter load side... OK again. Check the line side... with
> the disco off... and get nutty readings AGAIN.... damn!
>
> The line side goes from the fuse block to the line side of the
> starter...no farther.. less than a foot.
>
> Tore the starter down and cleaned everything.... re-torqued
> everything... test again... OK.
>
> Put a new fuse in and.... BANG....
>
> OK, I'm pissed now. I go out and get and our transformer megger and set
> it to 5,000 V. Do a ground check and all is well.
>
> I clip one lead to A phase and start probing around the starter... there
> are arcs going every which direction. I start asking questions.
>
> A week ago, this plant had a filter failure in the dust collector...
> which resulted in a large quantity of metal-laden crap being deposited
> in the general area of the collector... including our control panel.
> Then high humidity took over and rusted it into the arc shields of a
> $3,000 contactor.
>
> We took the contactor out of the control center.... used my Dremel and
> polishing compound cleaning everything again with large amounts of
> contact cleaner and compressed air.... and upon re-install... it tested
> OK... again.
>
> I said... hell.... let 'er rip, boys! They were a little gun shy by now
> but we re-fused and that big fan took off.
>
> Sometimes, electricity can be sneaky.... I would have never found that
> fault had I not shot 5 kV through the thing. My Fluke said all was well.
>
> Jake

Good one jake.

pierce

TURTLE

2005-10-23, 11:21 am

"Bill" <bill@hvac.com> wrote in message
news:fuD6f.90257$tD4.19078@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> In article <nFB6f.2115$Pp1.74@bignews3.bellsouth.net>,
> "TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hack shit like I said weasel. Next thing you'll claim the Board of
> Health ok's using plastic for plenums.
>

This is Turtle.

So you say the Louisiana State fire Marshal is full of shit and maybe if i call
him and let him read your reply and he might call his other brother in Ohio and
discuss your abilitys.

TURTLE

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-23, 1:21 pm

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 02:45:27 GMT, "Oscar_Lives" <nospam@nospam.net>
wrote:

>Green means go, right?

Red means STOP,
Green menas GO,
and Yellow means PUNCH IT.

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~^Johnny^~

2005-10-23, 1:21 pm

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:55:58 GMT, Jake <jkelleyus@insightbb.com>
wrote:

>Oscar_Lives wrote:
>
>
>...and WD40 on EVERYTHING....

Just pinch off the liquid line.

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

Bill

2005-10-23, 1:21 pm

In article <%mM6f.5578$Ha4.1457@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
"TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> This is Turtle.
>
> So you say the Louisiana State fire Marshal is full of shit and maybe if i
> call
> him and let him read your reply and he might call his other brother in Ohio
> and
> discuss your abilitys.

Try the NEC weasel. You claim to have an electrical license. Come on
hack boi.

--

A Professional is someone who does a good job even when they don't feel like it.

Jake

2005-10-23, 3:21 pm

Bill wrote:
> In article <%mM6f.5578$Ha4.1457@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
> "TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Try the NEC weasel. You claim to have an electrical license. Come on
> hack boi.
>

I'm getting more curious about this the more I think about it and look
further....

First off, the LA Fire Marshall's site says they inclusively adopt the
NEC... so I guess it's the ruling authority here....

And the more I look, the more I find that it has been common practice to
cord-connect things like a gas-fired AHU.

Am I missing something in the Code.... which CLEARLY does not allow such
a connection?

The ONLY way I can see such a connection might be construed as
acceptable would be IF the manufacturer shipped the unit with a cord
attached... is this done?

I got this off the International Association of Electrical Inspector's
Site... which is discussing California but I'd guess Louisiana would
also apply:

" Section 400.7 gives the uses that are permitted: “(A) Uses. Flexible
cords and cables shall be used only for the following: … (8) Appliances
where the fastening means and mechanical connections are specifically
designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and repair, and the
appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connection.”

This is not a dishwasher, compactor, or disposal that needs frequent
removal for maintenance or repair and is permitted by the National
Electrical Code to use flexible cords.

This is commonly referred to as a valley practice, which is a way of
saying, “We don’t know where it came from, but we have been doing it
this way since 1947" and then show you their most current code book,
which is a 1947 National Electrical Code."

WHY does this practice appear to be so common, and pass inspections?

Jake

Noon-Air

2005-10-23, 3:21 pm

TURTLE

2005-10-23, 6:21 pm

"John" <johnmhildreth@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129844392.644480.70220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Does Jon Ayers know what a sad, balding, old turd you are? And a cat
> man?? What's that all about? I guess my previous post hit a little
> too close to home eh?
>
>

This is Turtle.

Paul is not in the service business of the hvac trade and is a software salesman
selling software over the internet. He probley does not have a clue as to how
the float switch attaches to the drip pan.

It will have a plastic clip or metal clip but will have a screw to screw down to
cklam on thne side of the pan. They wire don't make a difference as which to
attack to but the circuit must be to just cut off the condenser unit and not the
whole furnace and cooling system. if you cut the 24 vold power source with the
float you could cause a bad thing with being tripped in the winter times when it
was freezing.

I could get into the calling him old Needle dick and the cats but I will not go
there.

TURTLE

victoria

2005-10-23, 6:21 pm

Jake

2005-10-23, 7:21 pm

> We purchased two 3 Ton through the wall A/C units last summer and they came
> equipped with built-in electronic GFI's built into the flex 230VAC plug-in
> cords.After about 2 weeks one GFI failed.(released factory smoke) for no
> apparant reason. I called Friedrich HO in Texas regarding a replacement and
> the Engineer I spoke to informed me that all U.S. appliances were now being
> manufactured with GFI's built into the cords under some new regulations.
> Does anyone have more info on these regs. and what appliances they will be
> installed on?
>
>

The cords 'probably' had AFCI (Arc Fault) or LCDI (Leakage Current
Detection & Interruption) protectors on them... something that was
mandated by the UL and NEC in mid 2004 for room air conditioners.

AFCI's were originally required in all new construction homes bedrooms
by the 2002 NEC... if I remember correctly. It was a logical extension
to require them on room AC units given the number of older homes PTACS
or room units are installed in.

NEC 440.65... I think (-;...

Here's UL's justification:

http://www.ul.com/regulators/afci/

Jake

TURTLE

2005-10-23, 9:21 pm

"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:heQ6f.470371$_o.35943@attbi_s71...
> Bill wrote:
>
> I'm getting more curious about this the more I think about it and look
> further....
>
> First off, the LA Fire Marshall's site says they inclusively adopt the NEC...
> so I guess it's the ruling authority here....
>
> And the more I look, the more I find that it has been common practice to
> cord-connect things like a gas-fired AHU.
>
> Am I missing something in the Code.... which CLEARLY does not allow such a
> connection?
>
> The ONLY way I can see such a connection might be construed as acceptable
> would be IF the manufacturer shipped the unit with a cord attached... is this
> done?
>
> I got this off the International Association of Electrical Inspector's Site...
> which is discussing California but I'd guess Louisiana would also apply:
>
> " Section 400.7 gives the uses that are permitted: “(A) Uses. Flexible cords
> and cables shall be used only for the following: … (8) Appliances where the
> fastening means and mechanical connections are specifically designed to permit
> ready removal for maintenance and repair, and the appliance is intended or
> identified for flexible cord connection.”
>
> This is not a dishwasher, compactor, or disposal that needs frequent removal
> for maintenance or repair and is permitted by the National Electrical Code to
> use flexible cords.
>
> This is commonly referred to as a valley practice, which is a way of saying,
> “We don’t know where it came from, but we have been doing it this way since
> 1947" and then show you their most current code book, which is a 1947 National
> Electrical Code."
>
> WHY does this practice appear to be so common, and pass inspections?
>
> Jake

This is Turtle.

No Cords are not shipped attached to the furnace.

I got into this with a fire Marshal out of Lake Charles , Louisiana that worked
the Oakdale Area. I was on a very light commercial job of a small 5 ton cooling
100k heat furnace flower shop. the building was new and the fire marshal was
down inspecting the electrical stuff of the electrician. i had the furnace in
place and ask him what about the wiring to run into the furnace of 115 volts and
did say i was going to wire it in but put some form of disconnect on it. he give
me 3 choices of plug in, light switch , or small cheap disconnect box. He said
the 115 volt whip was ok because gas furnaces, stoves, washing machines, and all
that are worked on and serviced regularly and need to remove the power to work
on them. you can put a cord on it. he did add the part about the furnaces had to
be opened up to change the filter every month by the customer and the plug
removed did make a fail safe way to know the power was off by the unknowing
customer.

Also the furnace was classed as a appliance to be serviced and covers removed to
change the filter every month and was the same as when you clean the burners and
remove them in the spring. You have to unplug it. then this same thing is done
on electric stoves when you want to clean the burner cups and remove the burners
out , you need to unplug it to remove the electric elements to clean the stove.

So what he was saying was a stove , kitchen appliances all have to be serviced
or cleaned just like a gas furnace when changing filters or cleaning the
burners.

Now he did have a bunch of other stuff he wanted on this thing to be done
besides this plug.

Now like Steve Noone said , Down here a knowledgiable person of the NEC code is
far and few in between. Just about all we have to depend on is the Fire Marshal
Office to see it.

TURTLE

Jake

2005-10-23, 11:21 pm

> Also the furnace was classed as a appliance to be serviced and covers removed to
> change the filter every month and was the same as when you clean the burners and
> remove them in the spring. You have to unplug it. then this same thing is done
> on electric stoves when you want to clean the burner cups and remove the burners
> out , you need to unplug it to remove the electric elements to clean the stove.
>
> So what he was saying was a stove , kitchen appliances all have to be serviced
> or cleaned just like a gas furnace when changing filters or cleaning the
> burners.
>
> Now he did have a bunch of other stuff he wanted on this thing to be done
> besides this plug.
>
> Now like Steve Noone said , Down here a knowledgiable person of the NEC code is
> far and few in between. Just about all we have to depend on is the Fire Marshal
> Office to see it.
>
> TURTLE
>
>

There are distinct difference between kitchen appliances and a air
handler, IMO.

A kitchen appliance is designed to be installed, serviced, replaced and
even carted off the to the dump by non-professionals.

A air handler, permanently installed to duct work and gas/refrigerant
piping and whatever else, is not.

Motor loads have a incredible in-rush... we all know that. Cycling that
in-rush through a cord connection is dangerous, and that's why the NEC
prohibits it.

Garbage disposals, dishwashers, even the 'fridge (unless you have
teenagers digging around in them)... do not cycle 24/7 in near the
amount that a household AH would.

Take a good size portable drill, load it up good and plug it into a
socket. Cycle the drill off-and-on 1,000 times and I'd be surprised if
you don't burn the plug or receptacle bad. They're just not designed for
that kind of use.

The problem doesn't seem to be just in the south, either, by my
research. It apparently originated in the south for use as a super-cheap
disconnecting means... but I still don't think it's right or safe.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Jake

victoria

2005-10-23, 11:21 pm

"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:IYT6f.466091$x96.129687@attbi_s72...
>
>
> The cords 'probably' had AFCI (Arc Fault) or LCDI (Leakage Current
> Detection & Interruption) protectors on them... something that was
> mandated by the UL and NEC in mid 2004 for room air conditioners.
>
> AFCI's were originally required in all new construction homes bedrooms by
> the 2002 NEC... if I remember correctly. It was a logical extension to
> require them on room AC units given the number of older homes PTACS or
> room units are installed in.
>
> NEC 440.65... I think (-;...
>
> Here's UL's justification:
>
> http://www.ul.com/regulators/afci/
>
> Jake

Thanks for the info and links. I guess it makes more sense now. Anyway I
ended up cutting it out of the cord and installing a regular 30A 230V plug
as Friedrich could not supply a new detector under warranty. Claimed that
they had never had a problem with any others before. It worked fine without
it all summer.

Jake

2005-10-24, 12:21 am

> Thanks for the info and links. I guess it makes more sense now. Anyway I
> ended up cutting it out of the cord and installing a regular 30A 230V plug
> as Friedrich could not supply a new detector under warranty. Claimed that
> they had never had a problem with any others before. It worked fine without
> it all summer.
>
>

You do know that.... you voided the UL listing by doing that, and are in
violation of the NEC to boot?

Replacement cords are available... I think Leviton makes one for just
this purpose.

Please... replace the cord or hard-wire the things (-;.

Jake

victoria

2005-10-24, 12:21 am

"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:LLX6f.471673$_o.20969@attbi_s71...
>
>
> You do know that.... you voided the UL listing by doing that, and are in
> violation of the NEC to boot?
>
> Replacement cords are available... I think Leviton makes one for just this
> purpose.
>
> Please... replace the cord or hard-wire the things (-;.
>
> Jake

It was at the suggestion of the Friedrich engineer that I removed the device
,probably because I am not in the U.S. ( UL and NEC regs. don't apply) . Is
there any other *safety* reason to replace the cord or is compliance your
main concern? Why is hard-wiring a better option?

Jake

2005-10-24, 1:21 am

> It was at the suggestion of the Friedrich engineer that I removed the device
> ,probably because I am not in the U.S. ( UL and NEC regs. don't apply) . Is
> there any other *safety* reason to replace the cord or is compliance your
> main concern? Why is hard-wiring a better option?
>
>

Cord connected devices (particularly frequently cycled motor loads) are
prone to catastrophic failure (that meaning the failure compromises
human life or equipment).

The cord can get frayed being bent frequently or at odd angles... the
plug and its mating receptacle can get hot from all the cycling.... all
inducing arcing which eventually causes failure. It causes catastrophic
failure in a cord because it is exposed and not in conduit.

Hardwiring eliminates the very weak joint of plug/receptacle, and the
physical wear of the cord. If done correctly, it also means the
conductors are totally enclosed in metal (and grounded) before a major
failure occurs. Metal raceways will actually accelerate the heating in
over-stressed conductors and cause them to fail long before a
'catastrophic' event occurs...containing any arcing.

The regs. are there for a reason. The UL and the NEC both (of recent
times) rely heavily on experience from the field in promulgating new
rules. 400,000 home fires in the US caused by arcing in these cords was
enough for them... and it's enough for me.

There was quite a lively debate on AFCI requirements.... but it seems
even original skeptics like Mike Holt were eventually convinced.

Do some searching over at Mike Holt's Code forum to learn more about AFCI's.

Jake

TURTLE

2005-10-25, 12:21 am

"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:%WW6f.466549$x96.62883@attbi_s72...
>
> There are distinct difference between kitchen appliances and a air handler,
> IMO.
>
> A kitchen appliance is designed to be installed, serviced, replaced and even
> carted off the to the dump by non-professionals.
>
> A air handler, permanently installed to duct work and gas/refrigerant piping
> and whatever else, is not.
>
> Motor loads have a incredible in-rush... we all know that. Cycling that
> in-rush through a cord connection is dangerous, and that's why the NEC
> prohibits it.
>
> Garbage disposals, dishwashers, even the 'fridge (unless you have teenagers
> digging around in them)... do not cycle 24/7 in near the amount that a
> household AH would.
>
> Take a good size portable drill, load it up good and plug it into a socket.
> Cycle the drill off-and-on 1,000 times and I'd be surprised if you don't burn
> the plug or receptacle bad. They're just not designed for that kind of use.
>
> The problem doesn't seem to be just in the south, either, by my research. It
> apparently originated in the south for use as a super-cheap disconnecting
> means... but I still don't think it's right or safe.
>
> Just my $0.02 worth.
>
> Jake
>
>

This is Turtle.

You say it can only be carted of the hvac equipment to the dump by professional.
I have a scrap man that works for me and he pulls all the equipment out for me
for just the scrap metal. The last job i did on a roof , he pulled all the stuff
off the roof for $zero dollars and he collected $621.00 in scrap metal. i pull
the freon and he takers over. He can do it a 10 hour day which makes him make
$62.10 a hour CASH for just him and his son. also my scrap man has a E.P.A.
card to buy freon and never picked up a set of guages in his life. He has them
to buy freon for his church and a few other people who like to work on their own
stuff and he will furnish freon 22 for them. I gas up some of his hvac units
and everytime I till him to have the freon bottle out there when I get there.
then the bottle is there when i get there. Louisiana is kind of funny in
someways they do things.

Now the ability of a plug in to hold up to a 20 year spand of cycling is the
question. We was just talking about put a plug in on a gas furnace with a max.
amp draw of 10 amps and we do not put plug in on 220 volt electric heat air
handlers. They are required to have a disconnect rated for the air handler air
draw at the furnace to cut puwer off to work on it. the only thing that the
Fire marshal allows is a plug in on a gas furnace 115 volt 10 amps draw. Also
about every 1 in every 10,000 plugs burn being used on gas furnaces but most of
the time the plug will just burn off and cut the power.

You say to get a drill and load it up and turn it on about 1,000 times and it
will effect the plug or receptical. If the plug and receptical is new 1,000
times would not be near enough to even start to burn the plug at all. If a
furnace was cycled every hour 7 day a week / 24 hours a day / 365 days or one
year it will would be 8,760 starts of the furnace for one year. I see these gas
furnaces go 20+ years with the plug looking good that length of time. That would
be close to 175,000 starts on the plug/receptical and still work good. now the
surge starts that you speak of really is not the killer of the recepitcals but
the plugging and unplugging the plug will kill it. if some receptical is plugged
and unplugged about 10 times aday. It will not last long before the receptical
will burn up.

Well Jake , In the South it is another country and the northerners live a life
one way but here in the south we do as we please. Here we allow plug in &
recepiticals on gas furnaces but if for some reason they started causing a
problem or started burning up , even a little bit, equipment. the plug &
recepticals would be banded in a heart beat. If some of the northern states
electricians or hvac people come down here to work. they would be all the time
tring to figure out the way things are done.

Also Jake , here in Louisiana the fire Marshal office will over look the plug &
recepital on residenmtiual or light commercial but for big schools and large
public buildings it will be hard wired in with conduit.

TURTLE

victoria

2005-10-25, 1:21 am

"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:xLY6f.471741$_o.359917@attbi_s71...
>
>
> Cord connected devices (particularly frequently cycled motor loads) are
> prone to catastrophic failure (that meaning the failure compromises human
> life or equipment).
>
> The cord can get frayed being bent frequently or at odd angles... the plug
> and its mating receptacle can get hot from all the cycling.... all
> inducing arcing which eventually causes failure. It causes catastrophic
> failure in a cord because it is exposed and not in conduit.
>
> Hardwiring eliminates the very weak joint of plug/receptacle, and the
> physical wear of the cord. If done correctly, it also means the conductors
> are totally enclosed in metal (and grounded) before a major failure
> occurs. Metal raceways will actually accelerate the heating in
> over-stressed conductors and cause them to fail long before a
> 'catastrophic' event occurs...containing any arcing.
>
> The regs. are there for a reason. The UL and the NEC both (of recent
> times) rely heavily on experience from the field in promulgating new
> rules. 400,000 home fires in the US caused by arcing in these cords was
> enough for them... and it's enough for me.
>
> There was quite a lively debate on AFCI requirements.... but it seems even
> original skeptics like Mike Holt were eventually convinced.
>
> Do some searching over at Mike Holt's Code forum to learn more about
> AFCI's.
>
> Jake

I rechecked the device today and found that you were right (not surprisingly
;-) that it is not a GFI but indeed a LCDI .I also recall that both hot
wires were braided with copper over the insulation.Do these devices also
sense a ground fault as the green wire was not clad in copper ? How can
these units protect against fire or were you refering to AFCI's only? I will
get in touch with Friedrich again and demand a new cord under warranty.After
rereading their conditions they should supply it without question.I will
sleep better at night knowing it was done the right way. Thanks for the
wake-up Jake.
(Leakage-Current Detection And Interruption (LCDI) - This is a device
provided in a power supply cord or cord set that senses leakage current
flowing between or from the integral cord conductors and interrupts the
circuit at a predetermined level of leakage current.)

Jake

2005-10-25, 9:21 pm

> I rechecked the device today and found that you were right (not surprisingly
> ;-) that it is not a GFI but indeed a LCDI .I also recall that both hot
> wires were braided with copper over the insulation.Do these devices also
> sense a ground fault as the green wire was not clad in copper ?

Yes, they do... see below..

> How can these units protect against fire or were you refering to AFCI's only?

This is a fairly new technology, and to my knowledge only TRC
(Technology Research Corp) has UL approval of a LCDI product. Assembled
as a integral cable, it's called 'Fireshield' and seems to apply to your
description.

Leviton also does make a competing product, but it may be so new I can't
find a UL listing yet.

The braided copper jacket provides a excellent ground path in the event
of arcing, and the electronics sense it. The product is certified to
sense BOTH series and parallel path arcing.

>I will get in touch with Friedrich again and demand a new cord under warranty.After
> rereading their conditions they should supply it without question.I will
> sleep better at night knowing it was done the right way. Thanks for the
> wake-up Jake.

And thank you for listening. NO manufacturers rep or field engineer or
whoever should have ever suggested you just cut it off and replace with
something else. If Friedrich did this, I'm both surprised and
disappointed in them.

Jake

> (Leakage-Current Detection And Interruption (LCDI) - This is a device
> provided in a power supply cord or cord set that senses leakage current
> flowing between or from the integral cord conductors and interrupts the
> circuit at a predetermined level of leakage current.)
>
>

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