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Equipment for compliance with OSHA cinfined space entry?
|
|
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| So.... another hiccup from OSHA.
We have a customer that has classified a transformer vault as a
'confined space-permit required' space.
Usually, when we run into this... the customer has the necessary
equipment to satisfy the permit... but not here.
According to the regs, I need a 'combustible gas detector' (which I
found several models of) and a 'oxygen level meter' (which I have not
located as yet).
Since we're not gonna use these instruments much, I don't wanna pay a
fortune for the things, and I wondered if anyone had any recommendations?
Thanks,
Jake
| |
| ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2005-10-23, 6:21 pm |
| On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:14:03 GMT, Jake <jkelleyus@insightbb.com>
wrote:
>So.... another hiccup from OSHA.
>
>We have a customer that has classified a transformer vault as a
>'confined space-permit required' space.
>
>Usually, when we run into this... the customer has the necessary
>equipment to satisfy the permit... but not here.
>
>According to the regs, I need a 'combustible gas detector' (which I
>found several models of) and a 'oxygen level meter' (which I have not
>located as yet).
>
>Since we're not gonna use these instruments much, I don't wanna pay a
>fortune for the things, and I wondered if anyone had any recommendations?
Here ya go
http://tinyurl.com/cp9a9
or you could try
http://www.bamko.com/lab/dwf070203p.jpg
Sniffer 500 Portable Area Monitors
scott / bacharach brand
Big bucks, though - $ 2K - $ 3 K
http://www.wessingtoncryogenics.co.uk/Oxygen.htm
QPM-3200
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jake
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| SQLit 2005-10-23, 10:21 pm |
|
"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:faS6f.465709$x96.314021@attbi_s72...
> So.... another hiccup from OSHA.
>
> We have a customer that has classified a transformer vault as a
> 'confined space-permit required' space.
>
> Usually, when we run into this... the customer has the necessary
> equipment to satisfy the permit... but not here.
>
> According to the regs, I need a 'combustible gas detector' (which I
> found several models of) and a 'oxygen level meter' (which I have not
> located as yet).
>
> Since we're not gonna use these instruments much, I don't wanna pay a
> fortune for the things, and I wondered if anyone had any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jake
The customer has a confined space permit required and no equipment? How the
hell do they do that? I would think their insurance carrier would be having
a hissy fit. How can the customer classify an area and issue the permit
without the equipment?
The combustion meter is the real problem. The one I use can only detect
limited gasses . Your going to have to take a guess on what gasses you will
expect to find.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...1625931&ccitem=
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...1625966&ccitem=
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/se...sults.jsp?xi=xi
Time to visit the office of your risk management folks and theirs as well.
Best to find out what they expect before you go into the area.
Best of luck
"be careful out there"
| |
|
|
> The customer has a confined space permit required and no equipment? How the
> hell do they do that? I would think their insurance carrier would be having
> a hissy fit. How can the customer classify an area and issue the permit
> without the equipment?
This is a small place that had a OSHA wall-to-wall inspection and was
basically forced into the confined space thing for this vault... which,
IMO. doesn't and shouldn't require a Confined Entry permit... but it's
there.
It's the only Confined Entry location in the plant, and would normally
be accessed only by contractors. Their program prohibits employees from
entering the space... HV switch.
> The combustion meter is the real problem. The one I use can only detect
> limited gasses . Your going to have to take a guess on what gasses you will
> expect to find.
There is no combustible gas anywhere near the vault, but OSHA has the
two monitoring requirements as a minimum before entering. What would be
there, anyhow? Perhaps someone stuck a lift truck propane tank in there
and opened the valve?
I'll look at the links, and talk to some people OSHA.
>
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...1625931&ccitem=
>
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...1625966&ccitem=
>
>
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/se...sults.jsp?xi=xi
>
> Time to visit the office of your risk management folks and theirs as well.
> Best to find out what they expect before you go into the area.
Their insurance carrier handles the risk management function... and if
you've ever dealt with a huge insurance company... you know what that
means (-;.
We wouldn't expect to find anything there, either. This is a small
mini-mill that uses electricity for everything... to my knowledge, there
are no gas lines anywhere in the manufacturing area and nothing in the
process that would generate flammable gas.
O2 meters seem to be the real guesswork, to me, anyhow!
Jake
>
> Best of luck
> "be careful out there"
>
>
| |
| Noon-Air 2005-10-23, 11:21 pm |
|
"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:faS6f.465709$x96.314021@attbi_s72...
> So.... another hiccup from OSHA.
>
> We have a customer that has classified a transformer vault as a 'confined
> space-permit required' space.
>
> Usually, when we run into this... the customer has the necessary equipment
> to satisfy the permit... but not here.
>
> According to the regs, I need a 'combustible gas detector' (which I found
> several models of) and a 'oxygen level meter' (which I have not located as
> yet).
>
> Since we're not gonna use these instruments much, I don't wanna pay a
> fortune for the things, and I wondered if anyone had any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jake
Jake,
Its been over 10 years since I was certified to test confined spaces for
entry... Check with the mine safety folks. There is an O2 indicator and a
flamable/explosive gas detector that are available...shouldn't be too
expensive. You might check with the local fire department HAZMAT team to see
what they have, what they use, and if they have anybody that can actually
certify confined spaces for entry.
| |
| PrecisionMachinisT 2005-10-23, 11:21 pm |
|
"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:faS6f.465709$x96.314021@attbi_s72...
> So.... another hiccup from OSHA.
>
> We have a customer that has classified a transformer vault as a
> 'confined space-permit required' space.
>
> Usually, when we run into this... the customer has the necessary
> equipment to satisfy the permit... but not here.
>
> According to the regs, I need a 'combustible gas detector' (which I
> found several models of) and a 'oxygen level meter' (which I have not
> located as yet).
>
> Since we're not gonna use these instruments much, I don't wanna pay a
> fortune for the things, and I wondered if anyone had any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jake
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...G=Google+Search
There's a model 350 kit up on ebay right now....( not that I would advocate
ones buying tools from there where lives could be at stake )--mostly I
mentioned this because if you study the ad you might glean some additional
keywords that are useful in narrowing your search.
--
SVL
| |
| victoria 2005-10-23, 11:21 pm |
|
"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:faS6f.465709$x96.314021@attbi_s72...
> So.... another hiccup from OSHA.
>
> We have a customer that has classified a transformer vault as a 'confined
> space-permit required' space.
>
> Usually, when we run into this... the customer has the necessary equipment
> to satisfy the permit... but not here.
>
> According to the regs, I need a 'combustible gas detector' (which I found
> several models of) and a 'oxygen level meter' (which I have not located as
> yet).
>
> Since we're not gonna use these instruments much, I don't wanna pay a
> fortune for the things, and I wondered if anyone had any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jake
We have a few "confined spaces" that we have to access on occasion as well.
Here it is mandated by WCB regulations. As well as the combustable gas and
O2 detectors we are also required to provide ventilation fans and a tripod
and winch setup on a fall arrest harness and direct eye contact with a
second person outside of the confined space. If this is not possible radio
communication must be maintained at all times. Because of the cost of said
equipment and the fact that it is so seldom used , we usually borrow it from
our local water utility, as the use it on a regular basis. I would think
that most utility providers (water,sewage,hydro, or telephone) would have
all the necessary equipment and may rent or lend it out if you know the
right people to ask.
| |
| Noon-Air 2005-10-23, 11:21 pm |
| try this one too
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...tor&btnG=Search
"PrecisionMachinisT" <precisionmachinist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:djhf6t$v8b$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
>
> "Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:faS6f.465709$x96.314021@attbi_s72...
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...G=Google+Search
>
> There's a model 350 kit up on ebay right now....( not that I would
> advocate
> ones buying tools from there where lives could be at stake )--mostly I
> mentioned this because if you study the ad you might glean some additional
> keywords that are useful in narrowing your search.
>
> --
>
> SVL
>
>
| |
|
|
"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:1FW6f.466522$x96.184242@attbi_s72...
>
>
> This is a small place that had a OSHA wall-to-wall inspection and was
> basically forced into the confined space thing for this vault... which,
> IMO. doesn't and shouldn't require a Confined Entry permit... but it's
> there.
>
> It's the only Confined Entry location in the plant, and would normally be
> accessed only by contractors. Their program prohibits employees from
> entering the space... HV switch.
>
>
>
> There is no combustible gas anywhere near the vault, but OSHA has the two
> monitoring requirements as a minimum before entering. What would be there,
> anyhow? Perhaps someone stuck a lift truck propane tank in there and
> opened the valve?
>
> I'll look at the links, and talk to some people OSHA.
>
>
> Their insurance carrier handles the risk management function... and if
> you've ever dealt with a huge insurance company... you know what that
> means (-;.
>
> We wouldn't expect to find anything there, either. This is a small
> mini-mill that uses electricity for everything... to my knowledge, there
> are no gas lines anywhere in the manufacturing area and nothing in the
> process that would generate flammable gas.
>
The explosive gas thing actually comes from the possibility of there being
decaying vegetative matter - methane.
[color=darkred]
> O2 meters seem to be the real guesswork, to me, anyhow!
>
> Jake
>
They use these
http://www.draeger.com/ST/internet/...op_miniwarn.jsp
at a nuke plant I work at.
I did a search and they are like $2k.
http://www.probuy.net/products/MINIWARN.html
| |
|
| Jake wrote:
> So.... another hiccup from OSHA.
>
> We have a customer that has classified a transformer vault as a
> 'confined space-permit required' space.
>
> Usually, when we run into this... the customer has the necessary
> equipment to satisfy the permit... but not here.
>
> According to the regs, I need a 'combustible gas detector' (which I
> found several models of) and a 'oxygen level meter' (which I have not
> located as yet).
>
> Since we're not gonna use these instruments much, I don't wanna pay a
> fortune for the things, and I wondered if anyone had any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jake
Thanks to everybody that replied on this.... turns out OSHA
'Confined-Space-Permit Required' spaces only exist AS 'Permit=Required'
if you enter them with a defined hazard present.
In this case, that hazard was... strangely enough... sand from a
overhead storage silo adjacent to the vault. It's a 'engulfment' hazard,
the people at OSHA told me.
So... the customer emptied the silo below ground level... the hazard no
longer exists.
These nutty OSHA regulations that no-one can understand kill me.....
Oh... the OSHA guy I talked to 'strongly recommended' that we do
something like sound-level testing and weighting to determine if I have
to provide our guys going into foundries and mills hearing tests once a
year....
Now... I've gotta buy a sound meter, I guess.
Does this stuff never end for small business people?
Jake
| |
| PrecisionMachinisT 2005-10-25, 10:21 pm |
|
"Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:CtA7f.471332$x96.280037@attbi_s72...
>
> Now... I've gotta buy a sound meter, I guess.
>
> Does this stuff never end for small business people?
>
Nope.
--
SVL
| |
| ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2005-10-25, 11:21 pm |
| On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:54:58 GMT, Jake <jkelleyus@insightbb.com>
wrote:
>In this case, that hazard was... strangely enough... sand from a
>overhead storage silo adjacent to the vault. It's a 'engulfment' hazard,
>the people at OSHA told me.
>
>So... the customer emptied the silo below ground level... the hazard no
>longer exists.
So, a few minutes with a drill at 2 AM would have solved the
problem :-)
>
>These nutty OSHA regulations that no-one can understand kill me.....
>
>Oh... the OSHA guy I talked to 'strongly recommended' that we do
>something like sound-level testing and weighting to determine if I have
>to provide our guys going into foundries and mills hearing tests once a
>year....
You DO provide and encourage use of ear plugs / headsets,
right ? It's always amazed me how little attention people pay to the
noise environment.
>Now... I've gotta buy a sound meter, I guess.
Cheap. < $ 100. You don't need an damn RT-60 or such, just a
DB-A.
>
>Does this stuff never end for small business people?
>
>Jake
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| New Directions In Building Services \(Australia\) 2005-10-25, 11:21 pm |
|
"PrecisionMachinisT" <precisionmachinist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ba-dnVIKAL1-SsPeRVn-pA@scnresearch.com...
>
> "Jake" <jkelleyus@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:CtA7f.471332$x96.280037@attbi_s72...
>
> Nope.
>
> --
>
> SVL
Gives old farts like me something to keep the brain from rusting up.
Plus there's good money be made for accredited assessors advising on work
methods and safety, etc.
Don't forget to get the insurance details of whoever gave you that expert
advice (unless you didn't pay for it....)
I would have thought that any employer would have to establish Occupational
Health issues for the working environment into which your sending your
employees. So would expect that as your involved in servicing around
industrial noisy machinery, that you'd either already have a sound level
meter or at least hire one whenever required as part of your Safe Work
Methods Strategy. Don't forget all instruments require maintenance,
especially calibration.
| |
|
|
> You DO provide and encourage use of ear plugs / headsets,
> right ? It's always amazed me how little attention people pay to the
> noise environment.
>
>
We do... and I'm a big proponent of all things safety. Most of the
facilities we go into already have these measures set up... but I guess
we need to be prepared for our smaller customers as well.
It just seems like this stuff never ends. In the last year it was
-70E... a big investment for us.
AND NOW, we have to be prepared for every environment we might enter for
10 minutes twice a year.
All of our people... ALL OF THEM... are like family to me. I would never
put them in danger for any reason... period.
Sometimes, though, the regs. seem a little silly is all. How do you
eliminate every single hazard in a workplace? It's impossible. People do
dumb things (like I have) and suffer the consequences. The basic
instinct most humans have is to protect themselves... and we got through
stuff with HV that makes absolutely no sense, is counter-productive, and
in some cases in CONTRARY to how you'd do things safely.. because the
books say so.
I, and our employees, ALWAYS protect ourselves...whether the book
dictates it or not. We're tradesmen that work in the plants, in the
MCC's, on the lines.... every day. Filling out paperwork doesn't protect
us much (-;.
Oh, and my hearing has been fine since I left the Air Force... which
did? not have any consultations with OSHA whatsoever... as far a I know.
Jake
| |
|
|
Jake wrote:
>
>
> We do... and I'm a big proponent of all things safety. Most of the
> facilities we go into already have these measures set up... but I guess
> we need to be prepared for our smaller customers as well.
>
> It just seems like this stuff never ends. In the last year it was
> -70E... a big investment for us.
>
> AND NOW, we have to be prepared for every environment we might enter for
> 10 minutes twice a year.
>
> All of our people... ALL OF THEM... are like family to me. I would never
> put them in danger for any reason... period.
>
> Sometimes, though, the regs. seem a little silly is all. How do you
> eliminate every single hazard in a workplace? It's impossible. People do
> dumb things (like I have) and suffer the consequences. The basic
> instinct most humans have is to protect themselves... and we got through
> stuff with HV that makes absolutely no sense, is counter-productive, and
> in some cases in CONTRARY to how you'd do things safely.. because the
> books say so.
>
> I, and our employees, ALWAYS protect ourselves...whether the book
> dictates it or not. We're tradesmen that work in the plants, in the
> MCC's, on the lines.... every day. Filling out paperwork doesn't protect
> us much (-;.
>
> Oh, and my hearing has been fine since I left the Air Force... which
> did? not have any consultations with OSHA whatsoever... as far a I know.
>
> Jake
Jake, while working at the local Nuke plant we had an electrical safety
concern on a particular job, so I requested (from the on-site
contractor) that we go over the electrical safety plan. After reading
several pages of the booklet we finally came to a disclaimer stating
something to the effect: These safety rules are merely guidelines for
safe practices in the workplace, but as a licensed electrician it is
assumed that the worker will best be able to determine what will or will
not be safe practice. Ultimately it is left up to the discretion of the
electrician performing the task.
I can tell you that I would have never expected to hear such a thing.
OTOH, I was happy as hell about it. As you know, every situation is
unique and requires its own safety evaluation.
The issue in question on that job was to wear or not to wear protective
gloves during a particular procedure. I won't go into the details of
that job, because then I'd have to kill you 
hvacrmedic
| |
| ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2005-10-26, 12:21 pm |
| On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:46:21 -0500, RP <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>The issue in question on that job was to wear or not to wear protective
>gloves during a particular procedure. I won't go into the details of
>that job, because then I'd have to kill you
>
>hvacrmedic
If the doctor says 'he'd just as soon not bother with gloves'
for THAT one .... get a new doctor !
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
|
|
...p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:46:21 -0500, RP <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> If the doctor says 'he'd just as soon not bother with gloves'
> for THAT one .... get a new doctor !
What you really don't want to hear is "I wonder what that thing is?" or
"Oops!"
hvacrmedic
| |
| ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2005-10-26, 4:21 pm |
| On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:15:58 -0500, RP <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>
>..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>
>What you really don't want to hear is "I wonder what that thing is?" or
>"Oops!"
>
>hvacrmedic
Or "Where in the HELL did I leave that cell phone ?"
Or "I always wanted to work on one of these !"
Or the classic 'DAMN, LOOK AT THAT ! HEY, NURSE, BRING THE
INTERNS OVER HERE !!!!"
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
|
|
...p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:15:58 -0500, RP <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Or "Where in the HELL did I leave that cell phone ?"
>
> Or "I always wanted to work on one of these !"
>
> Or the classic 'DAMN, LOOK AT THAT ! HEY, NURSE, BRING THE
> INTERNS OVER HERE !!!!"
I had a friend who suffered for a year before they finally found the
sponge that they'd left under his liver. He nearly died over that
incident. They cut him open four times in one year, three of those times
needlessly. But shit *does* happen so best to have a will before going
under the knife.
BTW, I wanted the gloves *off*, the power was killed and locked out, and
I didn't see the point in trying to do delicate work with them on, some
of which I had already tried to do, but simply couldn't do with them on.
The contractor said it would be fine to take them off, but he was knew
to his job, and I didn't want to get us both fired, so I suggested we go
over the rules. That safety meeting went on record. They like to keep
records out there, and they like to over-dramatize too. Best to watch
the p's and q's in a place like that.
hvacrmedic
| |
|
|
> I can tell you that I would have never expected to hear such a thing.
> OTOH, I was happy as hell about it. As you know, every situation is
> unique and requires its own safety evaluation.
You will hear no such thing from OSHA in Indiana. Their way or else...
it can get silly.
We did a project at a facility that had a huge rubber mill. The mill was
controlled at a MCC and had a local disconnect as well.
In doing my LOTO, I used the local disconnect, as I always do.... OSHA
came by and cited me for a violation of the company LOTO policy by not
locking the thing out at the MCC. I never do that if a local disconnect
is available. I saw a guy get hurt really badly one time when he pulled
the WRONG disconnect at a MCC 300 feet away from the machine.
Sometimes common sense takes precedence over OSHA mandated policy.
I paid the fine.
Jake
>
> The issue in question on that job was to wear or not to wear protective
> gloves during a particular procedure. I won't go into the details of
> that job, because then I'd have to kill you
>
> hvacrmedic
>
| |
| Oscar_Lives 2005-10-26, 10:21 pm |
|
<..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:2vivl1dknu4n3kdkomvd60vmrdmi5hol2h@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:15:58 -0500, RP <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Or "Where in the HELL did I leave that cell phone ?"
>
> Or "I always wanted to work on one of these !"
>
> Or the classic 'DAMN, LOOK AT THAT ! HEY, NURSE, BRING THE
> INTERNS OVER HERE !!!!"
Worst one of all: "You're going to feel a little prick" and the doctor has
his hands on your shoulders....
>
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
|
|
Jake wrote:
>
>
>
> You will hear no such thing from OSHA in Indiana. Their way or else...
> it can get silly.
I don't know if it was an OSHA sanctioned book or not; it was however
the one that the contractor was supplied with by Entergy. It wasn't a
book of regs, just a general rundown of electrical safety guidelines,
though it did address a large number of specific issues.
OSHA has to apply, I would think. OTOH, OSHA has to also have gray areas
in some circumstances by virtue of reality The actual rule in
question was, I believe, not an OSHA reg, though you may be able to
settle it for me with a few more details. The only issue that I had was
that this was a 460V system, and according to the local sparkies gloves
must be worn at all times when servicing 460V equipment, *even when it
is tagged out*. It may be an unspoken rule among the Entergy sparkies,
but it didn't seem to be a written rule, and the written rules are the
only ones that that are enforceable, so I took them off to finish the
job. It may have been a violation according to some interpretation or
other, but we went by the book, so our asses are covered.
hvacrmedic
[color=darkred]
>
> We did a project at a facility that had a huge rubber mill. The mill was
> controlled at a MCC and had a local disconnect as well.
>
> In doing my LOTO, I used the local disconnect, as I always do.... OSHA
> came by and cited me for a violation of the company LOTO policy by not
> locking the thing out at the MCC. I never do that if a local disconnect
> is available. I saw a guy get hurt really badly one time when he pulled
> the WRONG disconnect at a MCC 300 feet away from the machine.
>
> Sometimes common sense takes precedence over OSHA mandated policy.
>
> I paid the fine.
>
> Jake
>
>
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> I don't know if it was an OSHA sanctioned book or not; it was however
> the one that the contractor was supplied with by Entergy. It wasn't a
> book of regs, just a general rundown of electrical safety guidelines,
> though it did address a large number of specific issues.
>
> OSHA has to apply, I would think. OTOH, OSHA has to also have gray areas
> in some circumstances by virtue of reality The actual rule in
> question was, I believe, not an OSHA reg, though you may be able to
> settle it for me with a few more details. The only issue that I had was
> that this was a 460V system, and according to the local sparkies gloves
> must be worn at all times when servicing 460V equipment, *even when it
> is tagged out*.
That's ridiculous... I have no idea why they would require it.
Funny story as it relates to <600 volt class. A few years ago I ran a
call at a plant that had a bunch of lighting out. I open the breaker
panel and start checking.... A phase dead to ground... B 277 Volts... C
277 volts.... all the way down 40 some breakers.
The panel was fed from a buss some feet in the air... and so I chased
the circuit back to some switchgear that housed the discos for numerous
1000 amp 480 wye circuits.
Found the one I wanted... removed the handle and opened the access door.
A plant electrician was with me and stared in amazement... "You gonna
check that with just your little Fluke?" I told the guy... Look... even
though the buss is as big as a 2 x 4 it's still just 480... and stuck my
probes in there and checked the fuses. He thought I was crazy!
Just because it's 1000 amps doesn't make it any more dangerous (unless
you short it out) than a 480 volt contactor in a panel. It just looks
really scary..
Unless there was a PF bank on the secondary (which is rare) there should
have been no reason for the gloves... some safety guy going nuts with
something they don't understand, is my guess,
BTW, the dead lighting circuit was in fact on the buss CB clamp and I
had a LONG day...up, up and away....(-;...
Jake
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Jake wrote:
>
>
>
> That's ridiculous... I have no idea why they would require it.
Right, my thoughts exactly, which is why I wanted to see it in writing
They're welcome to go over and above the call of duty, but I didn't
have that luxury, it was a bid job and I was really needing to get the
SoB done and get out of there. Three days in hell is about all I can
stand at a time ;)
>
> Funny story as it relates to <600 volt class. A few years ago I ran a
> call at a plant that had a bunch of lighting out. I open the breaker
> panel and start checking.... A phase dead to ground... B 277 Volts... C
> 277 volts.... all the way down 40 some breakers.
>
> The panel was fed from a buss some feet in the air... and so I chased
> the circuit back to some switchgear that housed the discos for numerous
> 1000 amp 480 wye circuits.
>
> Found the one I wanted... removed the handle and opened the access door.
> A plant electrician was with me and stared in amazement... "You gonna
> check that with just your little Fluke?" I told the guy... Look... even
> though the buss is as big as a 2 x 4 it's still just 480... and stuck my
> probes in there and checked the fuses. He thought I was crazy!
>
> Just because it's 1000 amps doesn't make it any more dangerous (unless
> you short it out) than a 480 volt contactor in a panel. It just looks
> really scary..
>
> Unless there was a PF bank on the secondary (which is rare) there should
> have been no reason for the gloves... some safety guy going nuts with
> something they don't understand, is my guess,
>
> BTW, the dead lighting circuit was in fact on the buss CB clamp and I
> had a LONG day...up, up and away....(-;...
That sounds like my idea of a good time...not
You brought back a few memories there Jake. I remember that feeling of
intimidation when I faced my first large chiller. 600ton. I was an
apprentice at that time and spent the time fetching tools and trying
*not* to touch any controls. The motor was DC drive and very fucking
large. It's funny how one trip like that can cure you of that fear, I've
never looked at any system since as different in any way other than
physical size. Even the cooling tower at the Nuke plant, though it is
indescribably impressive when you're standing at the foot of it looking
up, it's just another cooling tower...works just like a small one. I try
to tell any newbie that I work with that *Hey, it's just bigger, no need
to fear it any more than a small one. Just respect it like you should
any other, and you've got it licked already".
hvacrmedic
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