Heating and air conditioning - Central air conditioner not cooling

Author

Central air conditioner not cooling

miasmal@gmail.com

2005-07-27, 8:21 pm

Hi all... I'm sure this topic has been posted & beaten up repeatedly -
I've been reading deja articles for hours on separate days - but I
would like some quick advice if possible. I'll try to keep the story
short.

Moved into a condo; very old Lennox upflow heating/2-ton air
conditioning unit. <900 sq ft open space (no bedrooms/doors)

The air that comes out of the registers is _somewhat_ cold - but not
cold as I like it to be. As a result, I can only maintain the indoors
temperature at about 78, no lower. I would like to get down to 70 if
possible (outside temp 80-95).

It appears that the previous owner did not have an air filter where the
air got sucked in by the fan... so I put in a new filter. Due to the
way the unit is positioned (basically inside a closet) - I'm not sure
if having a filter is causing a problem by possibly restricting intake
of air.

There is no icing on the pipes at the outside condenser unit as I can
see. The alum fins on the condenser unit looks ok, free of debris. I
had a guy come out and fill it with a pound of R22, he said it was low.
I did notice some improvement, I can go down to about 76 now, but
still I would like to go down further to 70. Am I asking the unit too
much?

What else can I check to narrow down the issue. From reading some
posts, how do I check evap coils (this coil is different than the
condenser right?) & condensor/coil water drain (not sure where this is
located)?

I realize that the AC guy is supposed to be doing this stuff for me,
but to make a long story short I do not get to choose who comes by to
diagnose the unit. In the event I do have to shell out money, I would
like to be informed.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Carolina Breeze HVAC

2005-07-27, 8:21 pm

<miasmal@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122503059.654042.288200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all... I'm sure this topic has been posted & beaten up repeatedly -
> I've been reading deja articles for hours on separate days - but I
> would like some quick advice if possible. I'll try to keep the story
> short.
>
> Moved into a condo; very old Lennox upflow heating/2-ton air
> conditioning unit. <900 sq ft open space (no bedrooms/doors)
>
> The air that comes out of the registers is _somewhat_ cold - but not
> cold as I like it to be. As a result, I can only maintain the indoors
> temperature at about 78, no lower. I would like to get down to 70 if
> possible (outside temp 80-95).
>
> It appears that the previous owner did not have an air filter where the
> air got sucked in by the fan... so I put in a new filter. Due to the
> way the unit is positioned (basically inside a closet) - I'm not sure
> if having a filter is causing a problem by possibly restricting intake
> of air.
>
> There is no icing on the pipes at the outside condenser unit as I can
> see. The alum fins on the condenser unit looks ok, free of debris. I
> had a guy come out and fill it with a pound of R22, he said it was low.
> I did notice some improvement, I can go down to about 76 now, but
> still I would like to go down further to 70. Am I asking the unit too
> much?
>
> What else can I check to narrow down the issue. From reading some
> posts, how do I check evap coils (this coil is different than the
> condenser right?) & condensor/coil water drain (not sure where this is
> located)?
>
> I realize that the AC guy is supposed to be doing this stuff for me,
> but to make a long story short I do not get to choose who comes by to
> diagnose the unit. In the event I do have to shell out money, I would
> like to be informed.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>

While you may think you have enough information here, you dont.
But, what you describe sounds simple enough to fix, you simply have to get a
competent AC guy there first....
Talk to your homeowners assosiation, or landlord, and simply state that you
are not satisfied with the performance of the AC OR the tech. Demand a new
one. Deamand that the unit be checked properly, including a coil cleaning
since the previous owner didnt put a filter in, and chances are its in your
evap coil, and the tech that added refrigerant, might not have needed to.

pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-07-27, 9:21 pm

On 27 Jul 2005 15:24:19 -0700, miasmal@gmail.com wrote:

>Hi all... I'm sure this topic has been posted & beaten up repeatedly -
>I've been reading deja articles for hours on separate days - but I
>would like some quick advice if possible. I'll try to keep the story
>short.

You missed the part about 'do not post this DIY home-moaner
shit here, do it in alt.home.repair', huh ?

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

Stormin Mormon

2005-07-27, 10:21 pm

This sure is an interesting message board. I'm predicting you'll get a few
polite replies (such as this one) and a few which will melt the paint off
your monitor.
Anyhow, as I understand sizing, your two ton unit oughta cool your condo
with no problem -- if it is running right.
We really can't be much help without some technical details. But from
the information you've given us, it sounds like either restricted air flow
through the furnace. Or low on freon, or very possibly both of those.
I'd suggest call some local HVAC companies and see what they charge for
a clean and check. Hard to diagnose from here.
If the condo rules permit, perhaps pop in a window AC (which you own,
and can take with you).

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

<miasmal@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122503059.654042.288200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hi all... I'm sure this topic has been posted & beaten up repeatedly -
I've been reading deja articles for hours on separate days - but I
would like some quick advice if possible. I'll try to keep the story
short.

Moved into a condo; very old Lennox upflow heating/2-ton air
conditioning unit. <900 sq ft open space (no bedrooms/doors)

The air that comes out of the registers is _somewhat_ cold - but not
cold as I like it to be. As a result, I can only maintain the indoors
temperature at about 78, no lower. I would like to get down to 70 if
possible (outside temp 80-95).

It appears that the previous owner did not have an air filter where the
air got sucked in by the fan... so I put in a new filter. Due to the
way the unit is positioned (basically inside a closet) - I'm not sure
if having a filter is causing a problem by possibly restricting intake
of air.

There is no icing on the pipes at the outside condenser unit as I can
see. The alum fins on the condenser unit looks ok, free of debris. I
had a guy come out and fill it with a pound of R22, he said it was low.
I did notice some improvement, I can go down to about 76 now, but
still I would like to go down further to 70. Am I asking the unit too
much?

What else can I check to narrow down the issue. From reading some
posts, how do I check evap coils (this coil is different than the
condenser right?) & condensor/coil water drain (not sure where this is
located)?

I realize that the AC guy is supposed to be doing this stuff for me,
but to make a long story short I do not get to choose who comes by to
diagnose the unit. In the event I do have to shell out money, I would
like to be informed.

Thanks for any suggestions.

pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-07-27, 11:21 pm

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 01:15:24 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote:

>This sure is an interesting message board. I'm predicting you'll get a few
>polite replies (such as this one) and a few which will melt the paint off
>your monitor.
> Anyhow, as I understand sizing, your two ton unit oughta cool your condo
>with no problem -- if it is running right.

Seeing as you understand sizing less well than my grandmother,
who died 20 years ago, shut the fuck up.

> We really can't be much help without some technical details. But from

You couldn't be any help WITH details, because you're a hack
and an XXXXXXX.

>the information you've given us, it sounds like either restricted air flow
>through the furnace. Or low on freon, or very possibly both of those.
> I'd suggest call some local HVAC companies and see what they charge for
>a clean and check. Hard to diagnose from here.

IMpossible for you even if you were there.

> If the condo rules permit, perhaps pop in a window AC (which you own,
>and can take with you).

Even THOSE you can't work on.

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

udarrell

2005-07-28, 12:21 pm

miasmal@gmail.com wrote:

>Hi all...
>Moved into a condo; very old Lennox upflow heating/2-ton air
>conditioning unit. <900 sq ft open space (no bedrooms/doors)
>
>
Well, if your "Design Conditions" are similar to mine": 88-dry bulb,
73-wet bulb , around 49% Relative Humidity, then "a mere half ton
6,000-Btu/hr" window shaker with a floor fan setup like mine would get
you to 76-F and to 50% RH even on high humidity days. Your unit is
2-tons or 24,000-Btu/hr, 4 times the capacity of mine!

http://www.udarrell.com/airconditio...h_charting.html

What do you want to bet that your 2-tonner is not getting anywhere near
2-tons of heat transfer from the indoor air to the outdoors!
Also, it must not be reducing the humidity sufficiently or you would
feel very comfortable at 76-F.

My 6,000-Btu/hr Whirlpool remote control room A/C only cost around
$130.00 and cools well within the comfort zone around 920 sq. ft. on the
hottest days imaginable, 112 Heat Index days! Am I a happy camper, you
bet I am!

>The air that comes out of the registers is _somewhat_ cold - but not
>cold as I like it to be. As a result, I can only maintain the indoors
>temperature at about 78, no lower. I would like to get down to 70 if
>possible (outside temp 80-95).
>
>It appears that the previous owner did not have an air filter where the
>air got sucked in by the fan... so I put in a new filter. Due to the
>way the unit is positioned (basically inside a closet) - I'm not sure
>if having a filter is causing a problem by possibly restricting intake
>of air.
>
>There is no icing on the pipes at the outside condenser unit as I can
>see. The alum fins on the condenser unit looks ok, free of debris. I
>had a guy come out and fill it with a pound of R22, he said it was low.
> I did notice some improvement, I can go down to about 76 now, but
>still I would like to go down further to 70. Am I asking the unit too
>much?
>
>What else can I check to narrow down the issue. From reading some
>posts, how do I check evap coils (this coil is different than the
>condenser right?) & condensor/coil water drain (not sure where this is
>located)? Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>
With the power disconnected check the blower wheel blades; if they are
filled with lint then the evaporator coil is plugged and insulated too.
No system should be charged with refrigerant until it is confirmed that
the evaporator has an optimal heatload being absorbed by it!

The condenser may appear to be clean to you, but could be blocked
between the fins and/or the fins cold be insulated by wrong cleaning
methods such as using oil based detergents when it was cleaned in the
past. (It is very old!) It should be thoroughly cleaned with a good coil
cleaner; the evaporator should be thoroughly cleaned with a good
evaporator cleaner. Leave all, these jobs to a good tech!
- udarrell

--
Factors in the Correct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems -
Recommended Procedures for Proper Duct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_...ng_systems.html

B-Hate-Me

2005-07-28, 3:21 pm

<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:ppfge1hf8lcukd516bdt16ltbui4tcsb9v@4ax.com...

> Seeing as you understand sizing less well than my grandmother,
> who died 20 years ago, shut the fuck up.

Maybe Stormy is channeling her....I heard that all gay mormons
can channel dead people.

Either that or they can marry as many men as they want.... Somthing
like that.

papaya

2005-07-30, 2:21 am

> You missed the part about 'do not post this DIY home-moaner
> shit here, do it in alt.home.repair', huh ?
>

hey DICKHEAD

that is the rule in your little world, not the REAL world

no one else but your two little butt-buddies mind the home owners' questions

in fact, we welcome them

2005-07-30, 2:21 am

papaya wrote:

>
>
> hey DICKHEAD
>
> that is the rule in your little world, not the REAL world
>
> no one else but your two little butt-buddies mind the home owners' questions
>
> in fact, we welcome them

Notwithstanding, the original FAQ forbids replying to them online. It
states that "homeowners questions are ok, but should be replied to via
private e-mail". This wasn't very logical thinking OTOH, since it
amounts to "Homeowner's questions aren't really welcome".
If you want to reply to them online, then who can stop you? OTOH, you're
inviting a flaming. If your intent is to answer the homeowners question
for their benefit then an e-mail would perform the same magic, and as a
bonus if you issue bad advice nobody else will see it.
The only justifiable purpose of replying online is to invite debate. At
least that's the most that it accomplishes. Sometimes people learn from
it, mostly not the homeowner though

hvacrmedic

Cindy@meow.org

2005-07-30, 8:21 am

RP wrote:

[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
>
>Notwithstanding, the original FAQ forbids replying to them online.
>
>hvacrmedic
>
Not true RP.

"Non-professionals who post questions to this group should keep in mind that
most subscribers expect other subscribers to be professionals having something
to do with HVAC engineering. This is not to say that residential HVAC subjects
are discouraged here, only that most subscribers assume that they are conversing
with someone who has at least a basic understanding of the language used by HVAC
scientist, engineers, and technicians. This is also not to say that
do-it-yourselfers are discouraged from posting questions to the HVAC `experts'
that regularly read these articles. Many of the `experts' are glad to help
homeowners with their HVAC problems, others would rather not. If you are a
layperson, and would like to ask the `experts' an HVAC question, please use
words like "layman question" or "homeowner question" in the subject line of your
post. If you post a question like "My home air conditioning system stopped
working, what should I do?", you shouldn't expect much of an answer since the
question is to vague. Do-it-yourselfers should be prepared to provide detailed
and specific information on the problem."

After lurking here awhile, it seems to me that just about the only person(s) who
object to home-owner or DIY'ers questions are the select few "armchair techs"
who havent worked in the field in years.

Do you suppose those individuals realize they have no current hands on
experience and are somewhat intimidated in that they cannot join in the
discussion, and thus resort to telling the OP to take their questions elsewhere?

Noon-Air

2005-07-30, 10:21 am

Spend the money and hire a *competent*, licensed, insured, professionally
trained, HVAC technician to clean, check, and service the system. The
bonehead repair guys that condos and apartments have on staff are lucky to
be able to find their XXX with both hands and a flashlight. It is entirely
possible that once everything is clean and mecanically correct, that the
system is over charged.
The *only* way to correctly balance a system charge is with super heat and
sub-cooling.

<miasmal@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122503059.654042.288200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all... I'm sure this topic has been posted & beaten up repeatedly -
> I've been reading deja articles for hours on separate days - but I
> would like some quick advice if possible. I'll try to keep the story
> short.
>
> Moved into a condo; very old Lennox upflow heating/2-ton air
> conditioning unit. <900 sq ft open space (no bedrooms/doors)
>
> The air that comes out of the registers is _somewhat_ cold - but not
> cold as I like it to be. As a result, I can only maintain the indoors
> temperature at about 78, no lower. I would like to get down to 70 if
> possible (outside temp 80-95).
>
> It appears that the previous owner did not have an air filter where the
> air got sucked in by the fan... so I put in a new filter. Due to the
> way the unit is positioned (basically inside a closet) - I'm not sure
> if having a filter is causing a problem by possibly restricting intake
> of air.
>
> There is no icing on the pipes at the outside condenser unit as I can
> see. The alum fins on the condenser unit looks ok, free of debris. I
> had a guy come out and fill it with a pound of R22, he said it was low.
> I did notice some improvement, I can go down to about 76 now, but
> still I would like to go down further to 70. Am I asking the unit too
> much?
>
> What else can I check to narrow down the issue. From reading some
> posts, how do I check evap coils (this coil is different than the
> condenser right?) & condensor/coil water drain (not sure where this is
> located)?
>
> I realize that the AC guy is supposed to be doing this stuff for me,
> but to make a long story short I do not get to choose who comes by to
> diagnose the unit. In the event I do have to shell out money, I would
> like to be informed.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>

TURTLE

2005-07-30, 5:21 pm

"RP" <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:xeidnaPG444tkXbfRVn-3g@centurytel.net...
>
>
> papaya wrote:
>
>
> Notwithstanding, the original FAQ forbids replying to them online. It states
> that "homeowners questions are ok, but should be replied to via private
> e-mail". This wasn't very logical thinking OTOH, since it amounts to
> "Homeowner's questions aren't really welcome".
> If you want to reply to them online, then who can stop you? OTOH, you're
> inviting a flaming. If your intent is to answer the homeowners question for
> their benefit then an e-mail would perform the same magic, and as a bonus if
> you issue bad advice nobody else will see it.
> The only justifiable purpose of replying online is to invite debate. At least
> that's the most that it accomplishes. Sometimes people learn from it, mostly
> not the homeowner though

>
> hvacrmedic
>

This is Turtle.

Well Paul Milligan Should have thought about this when he wrote the FAQ about 7
years after the group alt.hvac was formed without him helping form it at all.
Paul out of the blue did not ask anybody in the group as to what the FAQ should
be like so paul just wrote what he want the group to be by his own thoughts and
ideal. I think i'm going to write a set of FAQ for alt.hvac and post them on a
website and call them the real FAQ of alt.hvac. There is no real FAQ for
alt.hvac but the ones Paul made up one day when he was pissed at the group for
not letting him run the group.

Now there has been NO original FAQ for alt.hvac , but only the ones 7 years
after the group was formed that Paul Milligan wrote one day when he was pissed
off at the group. Now if you want to look at the Original sci.engr.heat-vent-ac
FAQ and charter for they had one but was not written by Paul Milligan.

So here at alt.hvac there is no respectiable FAQ or Charter to go by not written
by a fellow that was tring to run the newsgroup with his thoughts about how it
should be run. One person thoughts on how things should be does not make a
forum.

Now if a person wants a FAQ and Charter that is real and not made up. you need
to go to sci.engr.heat-vent-ac and talk. now if you want to go to a newsgroup
like alt.hvac and talk freely. Here it is ! The dream of making the alt.hvac a
only trademen newgroup is nothing but just a Dumb dream of Paul Milligan !

TURTLE

Black Dragon

2005-07-30, 5:21 pm

RP wrote:

> Notwithstanding, the original FAQ forbids replying to them online.

You can't be that stupid? Can you? How can a "FAQ" forbid anything?

Never mind the fact that there never was an official FAQ or legitimate
charter for the bogus newsgroup alt.hvac to begin with...

--
Black Dragon

That which does not kill us, makes us stranger.
-- Trevor Goodchild - AEon Flux

bill

2005-07-30, 6:21 pm

In article <ZFQGe.42766$sJ4.8723@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
"TURTLE" <turtle4aire@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.

> FAQ and charter snipped rant

weasel when we want your ignoramus bullshit we'll kick you in the head.

Till then shut yer yap.

--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

~^Johnny^~

2005-07-30, 11:21 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:19:26 GMT, Cindy@meow.org wrote:

>After lurking here awhile, it seems to me that just about the only
>person(s) who object to home-owner or DIY'ers questions are the
>select few "armchair techs" who havent worked in the field in years.
>
>Do you suppose those individuals realize they have no current hands
>on experience and are somewhat intimidated in that they cannot join
>in the discussion, and thus resort to telling the OP to take their
>questions elsewhere?

I think you hit the nail on the head. Not that many would admit to
it.

Now, where did I hang that asbestos suit of mine?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.1

iQA/AwUBQuwvGQIk7T39FC4ZEQKABwCeONK7XPAhEWiyZGzO2I5grRQDRhwAoKms
ROBS8BEp7ZEgZ3btfvhOtKc0
=eHRp
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2005-07-31, 12:21 am

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 18:53:33 -0700, ~^Johnny^~
<nospam@gyrogearloose.com> wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:19:26 GMT, Cindy@meow.org wrote:
>
>
>
>I think you hit the nail on the head. Not that many would admit to
>it.
>
>Now, where did I hang that asbestos suit of mine?

Take a good close look up your XXX.

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

2005-07-31, 2:21 am

Black Dragon wrote:

> RP wrote:
>
>
>
>
> You can't be that stupid? Can you? How can a "FAQ" forbid anything?
>
> Never mind the fact that there never was an official FAQ or legitimate
> charter for the bogus newsgroup alt.hvac to begin with...

It's usenet, so actually any discussion about it is a waste of time.
But to answer your question: How can anybody ever forbid anything? Well,
they just do. That doesn't mean that anyone is necessarily going to give
a shit what someone has forbidden, but that doesn't mean that they can't
forbid it, does it? Are you mentally challenged or what? It's an honor
system you see, and the word "forbid" must be taken properly within that
context.

What this definitely isn't, is a group meant for me to educate other
posters in the subjects of reading comprehension and context, something
that most semi-intelligent adults don't have serious issues with. OTOH,
I may be granting too much credit, that is, given the extraordinarily
large number of people on the planet that are still superstitious.
Subtracting those out, plus those that are just stupid in general, hey
that leaves only one sane semi-intelligent person left, though it isn't
necessarily me. I can't be too smart, else I wouldn't have even replied
to this crap.

hvacrmedic

Vicki Szaszvari

2005-07-31, 1:21 pm

~^Johnny^~ wrote:
>
> I think you hit the nail on the head. Not that many would admit to
> it.
>
> Now, where did I hang that asbestos suit of mine?

I don't think that asbestos is NFPA70E-compliant. Better reach for
your Nomex or Indura outfit.

LinkBot