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Home > Archive > Heating and air conditioning > January 2006 > Steam Heat Costs
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| iarwain_8@hotmail.com 2006-01-16, 2:21 pm |
| Not sure if this is the best place to ask this stuff, but:
Does anyone here have natural gas steam heat (boiler furnace with
radiators)?
I have an older two story house with a full basement. The boiler is in
the basement. My heat bills have always been among the highest of all
the people that I know. I've always accepted the high heat bills but
since the price of natural gas is going up and expected to climb
higher, it's begun to get my attention. My heat bill for this January
was $500, up from $445 last year, and it was unseasonably warm this
month. Here are my questions, for people with steam heat, and who live
in a climate that's cold in the winter:
If you have steam heat from natural gas, do you find that it has been
expensive to run?
I keep the heat turned off in a few rooms in the house, I guess I could
turn off a few more, does that make much difference in the cost?
Has anyone ever replaced their steam heating system with something more
modern (not just the furnace), and if so how much did it cost and was
it worth it? Does the new system provide lower winter heat bills?
If you did replace the steam heat, what would you recommend replacing
it with?
I once casually asked a neighbor in the hvac business how much it would
cost to totally replace my heating system with a forced air system,
putting in all the ducts, and putting in central air, and he said
$15,000. Does this sound about right to you? I don't even know if
that included the cost of taking out all the pipes and old boiler.
Do you have any tips for getting the monthly bills down?
Does anyone have similarly high heat bills who are NOT running steam
heat?
The reason I ask this is because I notice from talking to different
people that a lot of the people who have winter heat bills in the same
price range as I do have steam heat. A lot of the people running
forced air systems are only paying $100-$200 in the winter.
I know some people who had steam heat, bills similar to mine, and
pretty much no insulation in their house. They spent a lot of money to
insulate their house, with the end result that the heating bills were
pretty much exactly the same.
I know someone else who replaced their old boiler with a new efficiency
furnace, but he said there has been no appreciable change in the size
of his heat bills.
All this leads me to believe that the steam heat itself is the main
culprit causing my high heat bills. So I thought I would ask on a
wider forum if this has been your experience also? It would make
sense, since steam heat is a rather outdated way of heating your house.
I used to be able to heat the house to 72 degrees and I notice now to
get roughly the same size bill, I'm down to 63 degrees and counting.
Presumably, this is mainly due to the increasing cost of natural gas.
Does anyone have any comments?
| |
|
| Do you have a one pipe or two pipe steam system?
<iarwain_8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137432181.287883.171920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Not sure if this is the best place to ask this stuff, but:
>
> Does anyone here have natural gas steam heat (boiler furnace with
> radiators)?
> I have an older two story house with a full basement. The boiler is in
> the basement. My heat bills have always been among the highest of all
> the people that I know. I've always accepted the high heat bills but
> since the price of natural gas is going up and expected to climb
> higher, it's begun to get my attention. My heat bill for this January
> was $500, up from $445 last year, and it was unseasonably warm this
> month. Here are my questions, for people with steam heat, and who live
> in a climate that's cold in the winter:
>
> If you have steam heat from natural gas, do you find that it has been
> expensive to run?
>
> I keep the heat turned off in a few rooms in the house, I guess I could
> turn off a few more, does that make much difference in the cost?
>
> Has anyone ever replaced their steam heating system with something more
> modern (not just the furnace), and if so how much did it cost and was
> it worth it? Does the new system provide lower winter heat bills?
>
> If you did replace the steam heat, what would you recommend replacing
> it with?
>
> I once casually asked a neighbor in the hvac business how much it would
> cost to totally replace my heating system with a forced air system,
> putting in all the ducts, and putting in central air, and he said
> $15,000. Does this sound about right to you? I don't even know if
> that included the cost of taking out all the pipes and old boiler.
>
> Do you have any tips for getting the monthly bills down?
>
> Does anyone have similarly high heat bills who are NOT running steam
> heat?
>
> The reason I ask this is because I notice from talking to different
> people that a lot of the people who have winter heat bills in the same
> price range as I do have steam heat. A lot of the people running
> forced air systems are only paying $100-$200 in the winter.
>
> I know some people who had steam heat, bills similar to mine, and
> pretty much no insulation in their house. They spent a lot of money to
> insulate their house, with the end result that the heating bills were
> pretty much exactly the same.
>
> I know someone else who replaced their old boiler with a new efficiency
> furnace, but he said there has been no appreciable change in the size
> of his heat bills.
>
> All this leads me to believe that the steam heat itself is the main
> culprit causing my high heat bills. So I thought I would ask on a
> wider forum if this has been your experience also? It would make
> sense, since steam heat is a rather outdated way of heating your house.
>
> I used to be able to heat the house to 72 degrees and I notice now to
> get roughly the same size bill, I'm down to 63 degrees and counting.
> Presumably, this is mainly due to the increasing cost of natural gas.
> Does anyone have any comments?
>
| |
| iarwain_8@hotmail.com 2006-01-16, 2:21 pm |
| >Do you have a one pipe or two pipe steam system?
Jeez, maybe I did come to the wrong place, now I have to answer all
these technical questions 
If I understand correctly, I have one pipe entering the radiator on one
side, and another one exiting on the opposite side, so that's a two
pipe system, is that right? Is one more expensive than the other?
| |
|
| You should change your steam system to hot water, and replace the boiler. A
two-pipe steam system is much easier to change, because hot water must
return to the boiler through a 2nd pipe.
Get recommendations from friends and neighbors, and call about 3 or 4
contractors. Tell them you want prices to change your steam system to hot
water. The radiators will need to be retrofitted, so if any of them don't
act like they know how to do it, cross them off your list.
<iarwain_8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137433103.524155.111280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jeez, maybe I did come to the wrong place, now I have to answer all
> these technical questions
>
> If I understand correctly, I have one pipe entering the radiator on one
> side, and another one exiting on the opposite side, so that's a two
> pipe system, is that right? Is one more expensive than the other?
>
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-01-16, 2:21 pm |
| On 16 Jan 2006 09:23:01 -0800, iarwain_8@hotmail.com wrote:
>Not sure if this is the best place to ask this stuff, but:
No, it is not.
Do it in alt.home.repair
--
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| |
| iarwain_8@hotmail.com 2006-01-16, 3:21 pm |
| >Do it in alt.home.repair
Okay, thanks, I'll try there. I almost posted there initially anyway.
especially since I'm interested in hearing about other people's
experiences. I imagine most people here have more modern systems.
Bob, thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.
| |
|
| It plays out this way:
I have two vehicles. They are both expensive to operate and put gas
in. Some people with Honda Civics, tell me that their operating costs
are much lower. What can I do to make my vehicles cost efficient?
Answer:
Buy a new efficient heating system and a new insulated efficient home.
Bubba
On 16 Jan 2006 09:23:01 -0800, iarwain_8@hotmail.com wrote:
>Not sure if this is the best place to ask this stuff, but:
>
>Does anyone here have natural gas steam heat (boiler furnace with
>radiators)?
>I have an older two story house with a full basement. The boiler is in
>the basement. My heat bills have always been among the highest of all
>the people that I know. I've always accepted the high heat bills but
>since the price of natural gas is going up and expected to climb
>higher, it's begun to get my attention. My heat bill for this January
>was $500, up from $445 last year, and it was unseasonably warm this
>month. Here are my questions, for people with steam heat, and who live
>in a climate that's cold in the winter:
>
>If you have steam heat from natural gas, do you find that it has been
>expensive to run?
>
>I keep the heat turned off in a few rooms in the house, I guess I could
>turn off a few more, does that make much difference in the cost?
>
>Has anyone ever replaced their steam heating system with something more
>modern (not just the furnace), and if so how much did it cost and was
>it worth it? Does the new system provide lower winter heat bills?
>
>If you did replace the steam heat, what would you recommend replacing
>it with?
>
>I once casually asked a neighbor in the hvac business how much it would
>cost to totally replace my heating system with a forced air system,
>putting in all the ducts, and putting in central air, and he said
>$15,000. Does this sound about right to you? I don't even know if
>that included the cost of taking out all the pipes and old boiler.
>
>Do you have any tips for getting the monthly bills down?
>
>Does anyone have similarly high heat bills who are NOT running steam
>heat?
>
>The reason I ask this is because I notice from talking to different
>people that a lot of the people who have winter heat bills in the same
>price range as I do have steam heat. A lot of the people running
>forced air systems are only paying $100-$200 in the winter.
>
>I know some people who had steam heat, bills similar to mine, and
>pretty much no insulation in their house. They spent a lot of money to
>insulate their house, with the end result that the heating bills were
>pretty much exactly the same.
>
>I know someone else who replaced their old boiler with a new efficiency
>furnace, but he said there has been no appreciable change in the size
>of his heat bills.
>
>All this leads me to believe that the steam heat itself is the main
>culprit causing my high heat bills. So I thought I would ask on a
>wider forum if this has been your experience also? It would make
>sense, since steam heat is a rather outdated way of heating your house.
>
>I used to be able to heat the house to 72 degrees and I notice now to
>get roughly the same size bill, I'm down to 63 degrees and counting.
>Presumably, this is mainly due to the increasing cost of natural gas.
>Does anyone have any comments?
| |
|
| You don't have to listen to idiots who tell you to go to alt.home.repair.
You'll find more accurate answers here.
<iarwain_8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137436154.435455.98500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Okay, thanks, I'll try there. I almost posted there initially anyway.
> especially since I'm interested in hearing about other people's
> experiences. I imagine most people here have more modern systems.
>
> Bob, thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.
>
| |
| buffalobill 2006-01-16, 9:21 pm |
| step 1: insulate your house!
then get back to us. your new insulation will reduce the btu's needed
to heat your house.
your next question about the insulation of the basement is answered at:
http://www.buildingscience.com/reso...ystems-2002.pdf
to change from 2 zones of hot water radiator heat old gas boiler gas to
new boiler with 4 zones cost $2500 for labor and materials in buffalo
ny in 1990.
you will want as many zones as you can afford.
| |
|
| Was that price for a two story house?
"buffalobill" <wjohnston@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:1137457636.751695.53360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> step 1: insulate your house!
> then get back to us. your new insulation will reduce the btu's needed
> to heat your house.
>
> your next question about the insulation of the basement is answered at:
>
http://www.buildingscience.com/reso...ystems-2002.pdf
>
> to change from 2 zones of hot water radiator heat old gas boiler gas to
> new boiler with 4 zones cost $2500 for labor and materials in buffalo
> ny in 1990.
>
> you will want as many zones as you can afford.
>
| |
| Jim Bean 2006-01-17, 1:21 am |
|
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On 16 Jan 2006 09:23:01 -0800, iarwain_8@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> No, it is not.
>
> Do it in alt.home.repair
>
> --
>
Fuck you troll. Go eat your own bullshit like you eat your mom's pussy
every Sunday night.
| |
| Jim Bean 2006-01-17, 1:21 am |
|
..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On 16 Jan 2006 09:23:01 -0800, iarwain_8@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> No, it is not.
>
> Do it in alt.home.repair
>
> --
>
Fuck you troll. Go eat your own bullshit like you eat your mom's pussy
every Sunday night.
| |
| AND Books 2006-01-17, 3:21 am |
| i got your answer. my business partner has an horific mansion with
8+ bedrooms and heats with steam for his wife and child at a current
monthly bill of $900+/mo. He's been closing down the house. Vizqueening
all the unused rooms. Got it down to $700+/month this december. Kold
month here in indiana. He has a fireplace in the *huge* living room
and i suggested that they all move in there and hunker-down... but no,
they like light clothes and the roominess of the house. No way out, with
that attitude.
meanhwile, ive got a 1500sqf modest hot water heated house with an 85%
newer boiler. I hit the wall 3 yrs ago when gas went from .25/therm to
..95/therm... I shut everything down. Went the 3-4 kero-sun space heaters
when kero was $1.40/gal... saved about 80% over gas which was then 1.20/therm
in 2002-2005... now it's changed... gas is now above $2.00/therm, and
kerosene is near to $3.00/gallon... it is a gigantic change. Meanwhile,
my electric is stable at .07/kwh. Presto. We're staying cumfy at 68deg
with 3-4 oil-filled electric heaters+clothes dryer, and gallons of
water boiling in the kitchen, the shock was that our electric bill for
all this comfort came in at $240/mo (3500kwh)... step 1: shut off the
gas boiler, step2: heat *only* the rooms you want (lower floors) and
wear sweaters. I will *never* face a nat gas bill above $30/mo (ya,
i still use a water heater cause On-Demand Hot Water is still too tricky.
best to you... move south!
iarwain_8@hotmail.com wrote:
: Not sure if this is the best place to ask this stuff, but:
: Does anyone here have natural gas steam heat (boiler furnace with
: radiators)?
: I have an older two story house with a full basement. The boiler is in
: the basement. My heat bills have always been among the highest of all
: the people that I know. I've always accepted the high heat bills but
: since the price of natural gas is going up and expected to climb
: higher, it's begun to get my attention. My heat bill for this January
: was $500, up from $445 last year, and it was unseasonably warm this
: month. Here are my questions, for people with steam heat, and who live
: in a climate that's cold in the winter:
: If you have steam heat from natural gas, do you find that it has been
: expensive to run?
: I keep the heat turned off in a few rooms in the house, I guess I could
: turn off a few more, does that make much difference in the cost?
: Has anyone ever replaced their steam heating system with something more
: modern (not just the furnace), and if so how much did it cost and was
: it worth it? Does the new system provide lower winter heat bills?
: If you did replace the steam heat, what would you recommend replacing
: it with?
: I once casually asked a neighbor in the hvac business how much it would
: cost to totally replace my heating system with a forced air system,
: putting in all the ducts, and putting in central air, and he said
: $15,000. Does this sound about right to you? I don't even know if
: that included the cost of taking out all the pipes and old boiler.
: Do you have any tips for getting the monthly bills down?
: Does anyone have similarly high heat bills who are NOT running steam
: heat?
: The reason I ask this is because I notice from talking to different
: people that a lot of the people who have winter heat bills in the same
: price range as I do have steam heat. A lot of the people running
: forced air systems are only paying $100-$200 in the winter.
: I know some people who had steam heat, bills similar to mine, and
: pretty much no insulation in their house. They spent a lot of money to
: insulate their house, with the end result that the heating bills were
: pretty much exactly the same.
: I know someone else who replaced their old boiler with a new efficiency
: furnace, but he said there has been no appreciable change in the size
: of his heat bills.
: All this leads me to believe that the steam heat itself is the main
: culprit causing my high heat bills. So I thought I would ask on a
: wider forum if this has been your experience also? It would make
: sense, since steam heat is a rather outdated way of heating your house.
: I used to be able to heat the house to 72 degrees and I notice now to
: get roughly the same size bill, I'm down to 63 degrees and counting.
: Presumably, this is mainly due to the increasing cost of natural gas.
: Does anyone have any comments?
--
| |
|
| On 16 Jan 2006 09:23:01 -0800, iarwain_8@hotmail.com wrote:
>Not sure if this is the best place to ask this stuff, but:
>
>Does anyone here have natural gas steam heat (boiler furnace with
>radiators)?
>I have an older two story house with a full basement. The boiler is in
>the basement. My heat bills have always been among the highest of all
>the people that I know. I've always accepted the high heat bills but
>since the price of natural gas is going up and expected to climb
>higher, it's begun to get my attention. My heat bill for this January
>was $500, up from $445 last year, and it was unseasonably warm this
>month. Here are my questions, for people with steam heat, and who live
>in a climate that's cold in the winter:
>
Have someone come out and check your steam traps. If they are passing
steam then you are wasting a HUGE amount of money. Other than that
insulation is key to saving money on energy.
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