Heating and air conditioning - anyone ever copy a nate test?

Author

anyone ever copy a nate test?

brujan@electrotex.com

2006-02-17, 6:21 pm

I wonder if anyone has ever had the nerve to copy the Nate test? Our
Tester was not willing,LOL, if someone has I would like to see
it....Our Company just took the Nate Test and many were upset!! The
guys feel like the material we purchased didnt cover what was on the
actual exams.

Thanks,
Bruce

Noon-Air

2006-02-17, 9:21 pm

It was like that when I took the Masters exam.... I had to take it twice,
but I still passed it.

<brujan@electrotex.com> wrote in message
news:1140212267.748694.144930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I wonder if anyone has ever had the nerve to copy the Nate test? Our
> Tester was not willing,LOL, if someone has I would like to see
> it....Our Company just took the Nate Test and many were upset!! The
> guys feel like the material we purchased didnt cover what was on the
> actual exams.
>
> Thanks,
> Bruce
>

gofish@gonefishin.net

2006-02-17, 10:21 pm

2006-02-18, 11:21 am

brujan@electrotex.com wrote:
> I wonder if anyone has ever had the nerve to copy the Nate test? Our
> Tester was not willing,LOL, if someone has I would like to see
> it....Our Company just took the Nate Test and many were upset!! The
> guys feel like the material we purchased didnt cover what was on the
> actual exams.

So you think they should hand you a copy of the answers beforehand?
The test is 80% common sense. The rest was probably in your study
material, or at least implied within it. Part of the idea behind the
test is to show that you have the ability to extrapolate answers based
upon a knowledge of the basics. There is no book on Earth that will
provide all the answers to all of the specific problems that you'll
encounter in the field. IOW, if for instance in a math course, the
lesson covers the application of polynomial equations for solving
certain real world problems, then it is expected that you can use your
basic mathematical knowledge to solve all of the word problems that
follow the lesson. The attitude of your disgruntled guys is however that
the lesson should have directly addressed the answers to all of those
word problems. As for the equations solving problems, the equations
required were provided in the test booklet. No study material is going
to attempt to teach you basic algebra. Some initiative on the part of
your guys is in order.
HVAC teching isn't for everyone. Although I am just an employee, if I
were the boss I wouldn't continue to employ anyone as a tech who
couldn't pass the NATE exams. It's basic shit. I had no study material
at all, and still scored 98/97%.

Richard Perry

Zyp

2006-02-18, 5:21 pm

CM exam was a hoot!

But RSES supplied the materials to study. They don't tell ya what's on the
exam, but they provide volumes of materials that 'might' be on the exam.
And the education was good too.

But you're right about NATE. The pre-test information wasn't designed to
really prepare you for the test as much as just discuss the subject matter
type. It seems they do not provide you with the education... just the test.

Zyp

<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:qpvcv1dl5fk0ukk76rums1tilk290pfbmn@4ax.com...
> brujan@electrotex.com wrote:
>
>
> so tell us Bruce what study material did the company you work for
> purchase? how many passed? how many failed?

gofish@gonefishin.net

2006-02-18, 11:21 pm

"Zyp" wrote:

>CM exam was a hoot!
>
>But RSES supplied the materials to study. They don't tell ya what's on the
>exam, but they provide volumes of materials that 'might' be on the exam.
>And the education was good too.

reminds me of back when epa cert first came out. the local RSES
chapter held an 8 hour class one saturday, the book was 2 inches thick
full of stuff that MIGHT be on the test. half the guys wo took that
class failed the epa because of information overload. the supply
house that was hosting the test had a 12 page booklet with no
questions, just answers. memorize the book and you could ace the
universal. I think the book had answers for all 5 versions of the
test, and sold for $2.50.

brujan@electrotex.com

2006-02-19, 12:21 pm

I will tell you. We purchased what was available. I asked Leaning
Solutions what I needed in order to prepare my 10 techs for passing? I
was told that the study binders ($900) I purchased was all that there
was and that it was the only study material.

And on that thought I don't need Teaching aids, I need to know the
study subject to teach. It was this official study binder that I used
as the study subject and wow! & now I wish I had not. What Is in the
binder is not what is in the test.

It is slow this time of year so we have spent over 75 hours in the
last 8 weeks studying at work as well I had a trainer come in for
evening sessions, each technician has his own binder to study at home.
As my techs started to use up the study material I obtained
additional materials to use from out side sources. We used Q Basic to
create our own quizzes on computers that were based on the Nate study
material. This was quite fun and I got a great satisfaction when all
ten of my techs could pass any exam in the 90% bracket. These exams
demonstrate the ability its passer to deeply articulate his knowledge
of electron theorem, power equations of all types, substances, current
refrigerant knowledge, and basic mechanical physics. These are the
subjects found in the Nate study materials. My technicians can take
these subjects and reduce them fast for you, they can make the Nate
study quizzes look stupid. They are way in advance of what Nates study
guide would suggest.

Here is the problem, my techs are already good techs but good techs
don't always have deep knowledge in the area of electrical
circuitry. They understand it basically and in a common sense way.
Now they know it in a very deep way. We spent at least 25% of our
total energy on electron theorem, and electrical problem solving. You
can note that This is the same ratio that is found in the Nate study
quizzes. Well the problem is that on the test they only asked 2
electrical questions and they were real dumbed-down ones at that.
This is a big problem. It is one thing to create a stiff test, it
should be in order to test and certify ones skills. The Nate test
taken Friday at my company is not able to say that a passing technician
knows any thing what so ever about electricity. You can't do it by
just asking 2 questions like "what is ohms law?" and then moving
on to more (common sense like questions) as it was put. Common sense
has its virtue but its no good with out a balance of knowledge and is
Nate that should be certifying that knowledge. You don't certify
"common sense" I don't think.

I would not want to copy a test to cheat. If all and I mean all of my
techs don't pass I will be using any thing but Nate material for the
retraining. A test would have been great be for I wasted so much of my
techs time. I had one thech that had little ability to work even Ohms
law but he became quite proficient all electrical formulation. He
worked hard and they asked 2 electrical questions. That's BS I am
sorry.

We were told by the Nate Trainer that " he had never seen guys so
juiced up foe a test he was quite impressed" He had just given a
paid for cram class to my guys before the test ($75) each tech. My guys
then say to me that I wasted my money on the pre exam course. They
all got 90+% on the trainer's pre tests. Well that glow did not last
long. I don't know if any one has actually failed yet, we will have
to wait and see but I now know that we could have been much more
prepared by not following the balances of the "Nate Study Binder"
it is not an accurate example of what to expect on the test. I don't
expect the 64% pass rate that is the average. I expect 100% because
we worked hard enough to get it. Its that simple. They did not test on
what was trained.

Thanks all for listening to my tirade I will be back with the score
later.
Thanks Bruce Buchanan

Al Moran

2006-02-19, 12:21 pm

On 19 Feb 2006 07:43:59 -0800, brujan@electrotex.com wrote:

>I will tell you. We purchased what was available.

Long XXX rant snipped. Your techs are idiots. If they understand hvac
theory and have done it for any length of time then they should be
able to pass the nate tests. Period. I say fire all of their asses and
hire people that know what the hell they are doing. I passed some
journeyman level tests similar to nate before I had even one day in
the field. The reason I did was because I had a good instructor and
understood how the stuff works. Whine and make excuses all you want,
because that is all they are, excuses. Your techs don't no diddly. And
apparently, you suck as an instructor.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-02-19, 1:21 pm

On 19 Feb 2006 07:43:59 -0800, brujan@electrotex.com wrote:

>subjects found in the Nate study materials. My technicians can take
>these subjects and reduce them fast for you, they can make the Nate
>study quizzes look stupid. They are way in advance of what Nates study
>guide would suggest.

Apparently not, eh ?

>Here is the problem, my techs are already good techs but good techs
>don't always have deep knowledge in the area of electrical
>circuitry. They understand it basically and in a common sense way.

Bullshit. That's called 'hacks'.

>Now they know it in a very deep way. We spent at least 25% of our
>total energy on electron theorem, and electrical problem solving. You

Then you and they are idiots. 'electron theorem' may impress
you, but it don't impress me. And if you think 'electron theorem' is
a part of a field tech's work, you are either ignorant or a fool.

>can note that This is the same ratio that is found in the Nate study
>quizzes. Well the problem is that on the test they only asked 2
>electrical questions and they were real dumbed-down ones at that.
>This is a big problem. It is one thing to create a stiff test, it
>should be in order to test and certify ones skills. The Nate test
>taken Friday at my company is not able to say that a passing technician
>knows any thing what so ever about electricity. You can't do it by
>just asking 2 questions like "what is ohms law?" and then moving
>on to more (common sense like questions) as it was put. Common sense
>has its virtue but its no good with out a balance of knowledge and is
>Nate that should be certifying that knowledge. You don't certify
>"common sense" I don't think.

No, you use it as an excuse for 'lack of actual knowledge'.

>I would not want to copy a test to cheat. If all and I mean all of my
>techs don't pass I will be using any thing but Nate material for the
>retraining. A test would have been great be for I wasted so much of my
>techs time. I had one thech that had little ability to work even Ohms
>law but he became quite proficient all electrical formulation. He
>worked hard and they asked 2 electrical questions. That's BS I am
>sorry.

Tough shit. Does he at least know Ohm's law now ? Because
that's about as basic as it gets ......

>We were told by the Nate Trainer that " he had never seen guys so
>juiced up foe a test he was quite impressed" He had just given a
>paid for cram class to my guys before the test ($75) each tech. My guys

And they still COULDN'T PASS THE FUCKING THING ? That's
pretty sad ( on their part ).

>we worked hard enough to get it. Its that simple. They did not test on
>what was trained.

Life's a XXXXX.

--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Murdentech

2006-02-19, 1:21 pm

<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:3qmfv1dg1l43474ugucmu7k3f6holcm54u@4ax.com...
> "Zyp" wrote:
>
>
> reminds me of back when epa cert first came out. the local RSES
> chapter held an 8 hour class one saturday, the book was 2 inches thick
> full of stuff that MIGHT be on the test. half the guys wo took that
> class failed the epa because of information overload. the supply
> house that was hosting the test had a 12 page booklet with no
> questions, just answers. memorize the book and you could ace the
> universal. I think the book had answers for all 5 versions of the
> test, and sold for $2.50.

I found the 1995 EPA universal to be quite simple, as you said, study the
book and memorize the answers and you can't go wrong. Biggest challenge was
memorizing all the different refrigerants and their respective uses.... many
of which are seldom used anymore.

The KY. Master's exam was much simpler, open book. Seemed more based on
one's ability to "find" the information than actually "knowing" the info.
They give you 4 hours to take the exam.

Biggest aggravation is not the continuing ed. courses, but the cost of
annual renewal. Pay for the CE, then pay each state annually for renewal....
what a racket.

At least the EPA doesn't expire.

Jeff Murden

Murdentech

2006-02-19, 1:21 pm

<brujan@electrotex.com> wrote in message
news:1140363838.962565.31180@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> You don't certify
> "common sense" I don't think.
>
>

Problem is "common sense" is not common at all.

I make a lot of money on service calls for "common sense" problems.... then
again, maybe it's not a problem :-)

Jeff Murden

Bubba

2006-02-19, 4:21 pm

On 19 Feb 2006 07:43:59 -0800, brujan@electrotex.com wrote:

>I will tell you. We purchased what was available. I asked Leaning
>Solutions what I needed in order to prepare my 10 techs for passing? I
>was told that the study binders ($900) I purchased was all that there
>was and that it was the only study material.

Major snippage here

>Thanks all for listening to my tirade I will be back with the score
>later.
>Thanks Bruce Buchanan

Jesus H Crimmany you are a long winded sunz-zah-biatch.
I couldnt even get through all that rambling you tossed out onto my
screen.
Just shut your "pie" and have em take it again. If they cant pass it
then you know what kinda crew you are spawning.
Bubba

gofish@gonefishin.net

2006-02-19, 5:21 pm

Bruce, I really dont know what to say in response to your post, other
than offering some suggestions. First off, recognize the fact that
most of the people and organizations that can offer the greatest
assistance do not bother reading this newsgroup.

I strongly recommend you join several of the professional
organizations that exist for this industry and rely on their sources
and input and networking.

In my area, IHACI http://www.ihaci.org/ offers FREE training leading
to NATE certification. $250/yr membership and every tech in my shop
is eligible for the free training, including free training materials.

Another is ACCA. http://www.acca.org/nate/ and
http://www.accaconference.com/Merch...tegory_Code=ACP
members price is about 30% less.

This years annual conference is in San Jose, Ca. the last week in
March. Will you be there?

Another huge source of networking & information is
http://www.serviceroundtable.com/

I cant recommend this last one highly enough. Lets see, there's world
wide hvac contractors as members, equipment manufacturers and
distributors, industry experts & professionals, goverment entities,
marketing and sales professionals, you name it. All working together
to improve this industry and your bottom line.
I will email you an application to try out the service roundtable for
free for a period of two months, see how you like it. I get nothing
out of it other than the satisfaction of helping a fellow hvac
contractor.

Bottom line Bruce? alt.hvac in its current configuration is the
very last place to be looking for anything that deals with the
business end of our industry.

On 19 Feb 2006 07:43:59 -0800, brujan@electrotex.com wrote:

>I will tell you. We purchased what was available. I asked Leaning
>Solutions what I needed in order to prepare my 10 techs for passing? I
>was told that the study binders ($900) I purchased was all that there
>was and that it was the only study material.
>
> And on that thought I don't need Teaching aids, I need to know the
>study subject to teach. It was this official study binder that I used
>as the study subject and wow! & now I wish I had not. What Is in the
>binder is not what is in the test.
>
> It is slow this time of year so we have spent over 75 hours in the
>last 8 weeks studying at work as well I had a trainer come in for
>evening sessions, each technician has his own binder to study at home.
>As my techs started to use up the study material I obtained
>additional materials to use from out side sources. We used Q Basic to
>create our own quizzes on computers that were based on the Nate study
>material. This was quite fun and I got a great satisfaction when all
>ten of my techs could pass any exam in the 90% bracket. These exams
>demonstrate the ability its passer to deeply articulate his knowledge
>of electron theorem, power equations of all types, substances, current
>refrigerant knowledge, and basic mechanical physics. These are the
>subjects found in the Nate study materials. My technicians can take
>these subjects and reduce them fast for you, they can make the Nate
>study quizzes look stupid. They are way in advance of what Nates study
>guide would suggest.
>
>Here is the problem, my techs are already good techs but good techs
>don't always have deep knowledge in the area of electrical
>circuitry. They understand it basically and in a common sense way.
>Now they know it in a very deep way. We spent at least 25% of our
>total energy on electron theorem, and electrical problem solving. You
>can note that This is the same ratio that is found in the Nate study
>quizzes. Well the problem is that on the test they only asked 2
>electrical questions and they were real dumbed-down ones at that.
>This is a big problem. It is one thing to create a stiff test, it
>should be in order to test and certify ones skills. The Nate test
>taken Friday at my company is not able to say that a passing technician
>knows any thing what so ever about electricity. You can't do it by
>just asking 2 questions like "what is ohms law?" and then moving
>on to more (common sense like questions) as it was put. Common sense
>has its virtue but its no good with out a balance of knowledge and is
>Nate that should be certifying that knowledge. You don't certify
>"common sense" I don't think.
>
>
>
>I would not want to copy a test to cheat. If all and I mean all of my
>techs don't pass I will be using any thing but Nate material for the
>retraining. A test would have been great be for I wasted so much of my
>techs time. I had one thech that had little ability to work even Ohms
>law but he became quite proficient all electrical formulation. He
>worked hard and they asked 2 electrical questions. That's BS I am
>sorry.
>
>We were told by the Nate Trainer that " he had never seen guys so
>juiced up foe a test he was quite impressed" He had just given a
>paid for cram class to my guys before the test ($75) each tech. My guys
>then say to me that I wasted my money on the pre exam course. They
>all got 90+% on the trainer's pre tests. Well that glow did not last
>long. I don't know if any one has actually failed yet, we will have
>to wait and see but I now know that we could have been much more
>prepared by not following the balances of the "Nate Study Binder"
>it is not an accurate example of what to expect on the test. I don't
>expect the 64% pass rate that is the average. I expect 100% because
>we worked hard enough to get it. Its that simple. They did not test on
>what was trained.
>
>Thanks all for listening to my tirade I will be back with the score
>later.
>Thanks Bruce Buchanan

LinkBot