Heating and air conditioning - Added insulation, now furnace runs MORE often???

Author

Added insulation, now furnace runs MORE often???

mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com

2006-02-22, 12:21 pm

Hi, I purchased my first home about two months ago, and after I got the
first gas bill... Well, I can't repeat what I said...

The attic had old R13 fiberglass batts between the joists and a couple
of inches of blown-in cellulose on top of that. Definitely not enough
for Western NY winters. So, the tax refund went toward 20 rolls of R30
attic blanket (on sale at Home Depot, cheaper than R25), which I just
finished installing yesterday evening. Now the main area of the house
has R50, just over what the Owens-Corning and EnergyStar websites
recommend for my area.

When I moved in, the furnace ran all the time, and there were wide
variations in temperature throughout the house. I re-balanced the
system by playing with registers and dampers and got it to where the
furnace would run once an hour for 20-25 minutes, and the temperatures
in the rooms were much more even.

Now that I have the insulation, the furnace runs 10-12 minutes, then is
off for 15-20 minutes, and then runs again for 10-12 minutes. I'm
wondering if the insulation was a good thing or a bad thing now...
Shouldn't the furnace run LESS often?

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-02-22, 1:21 pm

On 22 Feb 2006 08:11:42 -0800, mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com wrote:

>Hi, I purchased my first home about two months ago, and after I got the
>first gas bill... Well, I can't repeat what I said...

I sure hope it wasn't 'motherfucker' or something.

now go post in alt.home.repair, not here. This is not a
home-owner help forum

>
>The attic had old R13 fiberglass batts between the joists and a couple
>of inches of blown-in cellulose on top of that. Definitely not enough
>for Western NY winters. So, the tax refund went toward 20 rolls of R30
>attic blanket (on sale at Home Depot, cheaper than R25), which I just
>finished installing yesterday evening. Now the main area of the house
>has R50, just over what the Owens-Corning and EnergyStar websites
>recommend for my area.
>
>When I moved in, the furnace ran all the time, and there were wide
>variations in temperature throughout the house. I re-balanced the
>system by playing with registers and dampers and got it to where the
>furnace would run once an hour for 20-25 minutes, and the temperatures
>in the rooms were much more even.
>
>Now that I have the insulation, the furnace runs 10-12 minutes, then is
>off for 15-20 minutes, and then runs again for 10-12 minutes. I'm
>wondering if the insulation was a good thing or a bad thing now...
>Shouldn't the furnace run LESS often?

--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Noon-Air

2006-02-22, 1:21 pm

You should be waiting until you get your next utility bills to ask these
questions

<mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1140624702.502086.166010@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Hi, I purchased my first home about two months ago, and after I got the
> first gas bill... Well, I can't repeat what I said...
>
> The attic had old R13 fiberglass batts between the joists and a couple
> of inches of blown-in cellulose on top of that. Definitely not enough
> for Western NY winters. So, the tax refund went toward 20 rolls of R30
> attic blanket (on sale at Home Depot, cheaper than R25), which I just
> finished installing yesterday evening. Now the main area of the house
> has R50, just over what the Owens-Corning and EnergyStar websites
> recommend for my area.
>
> When I moved in, the furnace ran all the time, and there were wide
> variations in temperature throughout the house. I re-balanced the
> system by playing with registers and dampers and got it to where the
> furnace would run once an hour for 20-25 minutes, and the temperatures
> in the rooms were much more even.
>
> Now that I have the insulation, the furnace runs 10-12 minutes, then is
> off for 15-20 minutes, and then runs again for 10-12 minutes. I'm
> wondering if the insulation was a good thing or a bad thing now...
> Shouldn't the furnace run LESS often?
>

mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com

2006-02-22, 1:21 pm

Man, you are one ornery motherfucker aren't you?

Thanks for the redirect anyway.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-02-22, 1:21 pm

On 22 Feb 2006 09:06:46 -0800, mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com wrote:

>Man, you are one ornery motherfucker aren't you?

Tired of people like you who don't bother finding out what
forum to post in, and just jump in where fucking ever they think is
easiest for them.

>
>Thanks for the redirect anyway.

--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com

2006-02-22, 1:21 pm

Noon-Air wrote:
> You should be waiting until you get your next utility bills to ask these
> questions

Perhaps, but it seems like the constant on-off-on-off would cause
premature wear and tear on the furnace. These things can only go
through so many heating cycles before something goes to shit...

Thanks for the advice, though.

Bill

2006-02-22, 2:21 pm

In article <ql6pv1l1thgp0pcrk01mt33pfngultcruj@4ax.com>,
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:

> On 22 Feb 2006 09:06:46 -0800, mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com wrote:
>
>
> Tired of people like you who don't bother finding out what
> forum to post in, and just jump in where fucking ever they think is
> easiest for them.
Probably another loser using his web browser to view newsgroups.

They should scalp the assholes who put that ability in and those who use
newsgroups as "content".

--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*

CAVHBC

2006-02-22, 2:21 pm

<mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1140628006.693794.286230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Man, you are one ornery motherfucker aren't you?
>
> Thanks for the redirect anyway.
>

And you are what we call a pissy homeowner..but thanks for the confirmation.

udarrell

2006-02-22, 4:21 pm

mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com wrote:

>Hi, I purchased my first home about two months ago, and after I got the
>first gas bill... Well, I can't repeat what I said...
>
>The attic had old R13 fiberglass batts between the joists and a couple
>of inches of blown-in cellulose on top of that. Definitely not enough
>for Western NY winters. So, the tax refund went toward 20 rolls of R30
>attic blanket (on sale at Home Depot, cheaper than R25), which I just
>finished installing yesterday evening. Now the main area of the house
>has R50, just over what the Owens-Corning and EnergyStar websites
>recommend for my area.
>
>When I moved in, the furnace ran all the time, and there were wide
>variations in temperature throughout the house. I re-balanced the
>system by playing with registers and dampers and got it to where the
>furnace would run once an hour for 20-25 minutes, and the temperatures
>in the rooms were much more even.
>
>Now that I have the insulation, the furnace runs 10-12 minutes, then is
>off for 15-20 minutes, and then runs again for 10-12 minutes. I'm
>wondering if the insulation was a good thing or a bad thing now...
>Shouldn't the furnace run LESS often?
>
>
Was the weather warmer and/or less wind velocity?
Particular weather conditions can also result in shorter run cycles, but
it should be off longer!
Short cycling is also very inefficient operation!

Ask the HVAC contractor if they can reduce the btu/hr capacity of gas
furnace by changing out the burners to burners with spuds with smaller
orifices.
That will reduce the btu/hr capacity. The gas pressure from the gas
valve to the burner should be set at 3.5" WC.
The on oil furnaces the nozzle can be changed to a smaller orifice sized
nozzle resulting in a lower btu/hr output..
Talk to a contractor that knows his stuff because the venting system has
to reach specific temperatures to work properly.

If advisable, ask the tech, the damper can be closed somewhat on the
vent leading to the area where the TH is.
(Though not usually advisable)
Set the thermostat's heat anticipator for "longer cycles," it will
usually have an arrow pointing to longer or shorter cycles.
Ask the Tech to do it for you so it properly matches the ampacity rating
tolerance of the gas valve coil.
The heat anticipator preheats a coil causing the TH to open sooner so it
doesn't overshoot the setting.
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_...ng_systems.html

--
Free Dish Network Satellite System TV Certificate you can use to promote your business opportunities! The Certificate number is good anywhere in the United States for as many times as you or anyone wants to use it. Get Picture Perfect Digital Quality Loca
l Network Stations. "Click Sign Me Up" for the Free Certificate Number and 800 number to call.
Send the Free Dish Satellite link to your friends. - Darrell
http://free-satellite-tv.udarrell.com/index.htm
http://www.udarrell.com/free_dish_d...tellite_tv.html

Jim McLaughlin

2006-02-22, 4:21 pm

Your original post is perfectly proper here. Ignore paul, he has "issues".

--
Jim McLaughlin

Reply address is deliberately munged.
If you really need to reply directly, try:
jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom

And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
address.
<mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1140628006.693794.286230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Man, you are one ornery motherfucker aren't you?
>
> Thanks for the redirect anyway.
>

mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com

2006-02-22, 6:21 pm

Jim McLaughlin wrote:
> Your original post is perfectly proper here. Ignore paul, he has "issues".

I kinda got that impression about several that frequent this group
after I checked out a few more posts. By then it was too late to recall
my post.

No worries, I'm an old hat at usenet. Been around people like this for
over 10 years so it's no skin off my nose. This looked like a
homeowner-help group at first glance once I got past the OT spam and
obvious trolls, and I respectfully apologize to those who deserve
respect for being in the wrong place.

The real fun will be in figuring out which one's just yanking my joint,
and which one's giving me good advice.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-02-22, 6:21 pm

On 22 Feb 2006 13:16:56 -0800, mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com wrote:

>
>Jim McLaughlin wrote:
>
>I kinda got that impression about several that frequent this group
>after I checked out a few more posts. By then it was too late to recall
>my post.
>
>No worries, I'm an old hat at usenet. Been around people like this for
>over 10 years so it's no skin off my nose. This looked like a
>homeowner-help group at first glance once I got past the OT spam and
>obvious trolls, and I respectfully apologize to those who deserve
>respect for being in the wrong place.
>
>The real fun will be in figuring out which one's just yanking my joint,

that XXXXXXX home-moaner troll McLaughlin, for one.

>and which one's giving me good advice.

I told you the right place to post.

Was there anything else, or are you leaving now ?

--

Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Bubba

2006-02-22, 6:21 pm

Oscar_Lives

2006-02-22, 11:21 pm

<mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1140628361.829918.92010@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Noon-Air wrote:
>
> Perhaps, but it seems like the constant on-off-on-off would cause
> premature wear and tear on the furnace. These things can only go
> through so many heating cycles before something goes to shit...
>
> Thanks for the advice, though.
>

How many cycles can they go through before something goes to shit? Have you
read the manual?

Sounds like you might need a clue...

Oscar_Lives

2006-02-22, 11:21 pm

"udarrell" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:43fcb93c_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com wrote:
>
> Was the weather warmer and/or less wind velocity?
> Particular weather conditions can also result in shorter run cycles, but
> it should be off longer!
> Short cycling is also very inefficient operation!
>
> Ask the HVAC contractor if they can reduce the btu/hr capacity of gas
> furnace by changing out the burners to burners with spuds with smaller
> orifices.
> That will reduce the btu/hr capacity. The gas pressure from the gas valve
> to the burner should be set at 3.5" WC.

Another way of doing it is to plug up every other burner to reduce the
firing rate. Just put a little plastic wood or silicone caulking in the
orifices.

> The on oil furnaces the nozzle can be changed to a smaller orifice sized
> nozzle resulting in a lower btu/hr output..

Or just put a kink in the supply tube. They make special tools for kinking
the tubing.

> Talk to a contractor that knows his stuff because the venting system has
> to reach specific temperatures to work properly.

If need be, add a 250 watt flue heater to help improve the draft. A
Flu-booster would also help, and have the added benefit of being a fresh air
source during the summer.

>
> If advisable, ask the tech, the damper can be closed somewhat on the vent
> leading to the area where the TH is.
> (Though not usually advisable)
> Set the thermostat's heat anticipator for "longer cycles," it will usually
> have an arrow pointing to longer or shorter cycles.

Unless you have a "Popek SmartStat" that automatically adjusts the
anticipator based on atmospheric conditions.

> Ask the Tech to do it for you so it properly matches the ampacity rating
> tolerance of the gas valve coil.
> The heat anticipator preheats a coil causing the TH to open sooner so it
> doesn't overshoot the setting.

Bullshit. Just because you say so doesn't make it so.

> http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_...ng_systems.html
>
> --
> Free Dish Network Satellite System TV Certificate you can use to promote
> your business opportunities! The Certificate number is good anywhere in
> the United States for as many times as you or anyone wants to use it. Get
> Picture Perfect Digital Quality Local Network Stations. "Click Sign Me Up"
> for the Free Certificate Number and 800 number to call. Send the Free Dish
> Satellite link to your friends. - Darrell
> http://free-satellite-tv.udarrell.com/index.htm
> http://www.udarrell.com/free_dish_d...tellite_tv.html

~^Johnny^~

2006-02-23, 7:21 am

On 22 Feb 2006 09:12:41 -0800, mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com wrote:

>Noon-Air wrote:
>
>Perhaps, but it seems like the constant on-off-on-off would cause
>premature wear and tear on the furnace. These things can only go
>through so many heating cycles before something goes to shit...
>
>Thanks for the advice, though.

Not sure what model thermostat you have, but it looks like
you need to back off on the anticipator setting.
It short cycles now, because it was set for the wider
temperature swings.

Also, the thermostat should be near the main return register.
If it's not, relocate it.

If the thermostat is old, replacing it might not be a bad idea,
as well. The newer programmable ones will save you money,
provided you set them correctly.

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~^Johnny^~

2006-02-23, 8:21 am

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:51:40 GMT, "Oscar_Lives" <nospam@nospam.net>
wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Another way of doing it is to plug up every other burner to reduce the
>firing rate. Just put a little plastic wood or silicone caulking in the
>orifices.

Don't be ridiculous.

As a rule, gas burners throttle well, and efficiently.

Some older wall heaters have a "snap-throttle" gas valve, with
integral thermostat valve.

Many commercial appliances, like boilers and dryers have at least two
flame levels.

But the most obvious example is your gas stove!

I doubt a flue damper would do less harm than good, unless
you REALLY reduce the burner's input.
Slowing the fan down a bit should keep the flue temp up to par with
even moderate under-firing of the chamber.

Watch for backfiring in the premix chambers if you cut the pressure
too much. This would indicate the need for smaller orifice, in
addition to air shutter adjustment. Gotta keep the fuel jet velocity
up, and avoid an over-lean condition, in the premix tubes.

It's all about balance.

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

Taylor Morrison

2006-02-25, 3:21 am

mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com wrote:

> Jim McLaughlin wrote:
>
> I kinda got that impression about several that frequent this group
> after I checked out a few more posts. By then it was too late to recall
> my post.
>
> No worries, I'm an old hat at usenet. Been around people like this for
> over 10 years so it's no skin off my nose. This looked like a
> homeowner-help group at first glance once I got past the OT spam and
> obvious trolls, and I respectfully apologize to those who deserve
> respect for being in the wrong place.

Don't worry about it.

> The real fun will be in figuring out which one's just yanking my joint,
> and which one's giving me good advice.

It won't be that difficult to realize that someone who can't post on newsgroups
with swearing like a school kid isn't someone you would want to pay any attention
to. .

LinkBot