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Home > Archive > Heating and air conditioning > February 2006 > Central Air Condo Install, Please advise
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Central Air Condo Install, Please advise
|
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| daveg.01@gmail.com 2006-02-22, 2:21 pm |
| I am getting ready to install central air in my 3rd (top) floor Chicago
condo. I have got several bids but almost everyone tells me a
different story. I was wondering if you guys could offer some advice
on what I might be missing.
My condo is 23' x 60' and has 4 bedrooms, 1 bath, kitchen, dinning,
living
Note that I only plan on living here for another 2-3 years max so I
don't want to overspend on this project.
Equipment:
I have gotten quotes on Trane, American Standard, America Star,
Comfortmaker, and Westinghouse.
I have been told that Trane, American Standard, and America Star are
all about the same since they are made by the same company. Is this
correct? Is there really that big of a difference between these
brands or are they all sufficient?
Price:
I have been quoted between $6,500 - $10,000 for this project
Condenser:
I have heard estimates of 2 ton and a 3.5 for the condenser. No one
has done a Manual J yet. Will they Manual J always come out the same,
or can the contractors fudge the numbers to make is say what they want
it to say?
Furnace vs. Air Handler:
I have baseboard steam/radiant heat so I really don't need a furnace.
However it would be nice to be able to control my heat on really cold
nights and have it as a backup. Some contractors told me that they can
actually get the furnace cheaper than an air handler.
Will a 100,000 BTU 80% furnace be any louder than an air handler?
Is there anything I should be concerned with?
Ductwork:
I am having the ductwork installed in my ceiling in the non-conditioned
space. I know the duct needs to be insulated. The contractors very on
how they want to insulate the duct from using fiberglass, bubble
insulation, and the factor-insulated ductwork.
Is there a big problem with any of these methods? Is the
factory-insulated ductwork that much better? If so does it cost a lot
more?
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Thanks!!!
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-02-22, 3:21 pm |
| On 22 Feb 2006 10:05:06 -0800, daveg.01@gmail.com wrote:
>I am getting ready to install central air in my 3rd (top) floor Chicago
>condo. I have got several bids but almost everyone tells me a
>different story. I was wondering if you guys could offer some advice
>on what I might be missing.
No. I advise you to go post in the right forum,
alt.home.repair.
This is NOT a home-owner-help forum !!!
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
|
| On 22 Feb 2006 10:05:06 -0800, daveg.01@gmail.com wrote:
>I am getting ready to install central air in my 3rd (top) floor Chicago
>condo. I have got several bids but almost everyone tells me a
>different story. I was wondering if you guys could offer some advice
>on what I might be missing.
>
>My condo is 23' x 60' and has 4 bedrooms, 1 bath, kitchen, dinning,
>living
>
>Note that I only plan on living here for another 2-3 years max so I
>don't want to overspend on this project.
>
>Equipment:
>I have gotten quotes on Trane, American Standard, America Star,
>Comfortmaker, and Westinghouse.
>I have been told that Trane, American Standard, and America Star are
>all about the same since they are made by the same company. Is this
>correct? Is there really that big of a difference between these
>brands or are they all sufficient?
>
>Price:
>I have been quoted between $6,500 - $10,000 for this project
>
>Condenser:
>I have heard estimates of 2 ton and a 3.5 for the condenser. No one
>has done a Manual J yet. Will they Manual J always come out the same,
>or can the contractors fudge the numbers to make is say what they want
>it to say?
>
>Furnace vs. Air Handler:
>I have baseboard steam/radiant heat so I really don't need a furnace.
> However it would be nice to be able to control my heat on really cold
>nights and have it as a backup. Some contractors told me that they can
>actually get the furnace cheaper than an air handler.
>Will a 100,000 BTU 80% furnace be any louder than an air handler?
>Is there anything I should be concerned with?
>
>Ductwork:
>I am having the ductwork installed in my ceiling in the non-conditioned
>space. I know the duct needs to be insulated. The contractors very on
>how they want to insulate the duct from using fiberglass, bubble
>insulation, and the factor-insulated ductwork.
>Is there a big problem with any of these methods? Is the
>factory-insulated ductwork that much better? If so does it cost a lot
>more?
>
>Any advice would be very much appreciated.
>
>Thanks!!!
Wow! You rambled on WAY TOO long.
Look at it this way:
I want a new kitchen.
I have no spec's of any kind but Im going to call 10 builders and ask
them to give me a price.
Do you think I am going to have 10 different prices and 10 different
opinions that VARY TREMENDOUSLY ??
Are you starting to catch on now?
Bubba
| |
| Noon-Air 2006-02-22, 5:21 pm |
|
<daveg.01@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1140631506.873348.166980@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I am getting ready to install central air in my 3rd (top) floor Chicago
> condo. I have got several bids but almost everyone tells me a
> different story. I was wondering if you guys could offer some advice
> on what I might be missing.
>
> My condo is 23' x 60' and has 4 bedrooms, 1 bath, kitchen, dinning,
> living
>
> Note that I only plan on living here for another 2-3 years max so I
> don't want to overspend on this project.
>
> Equipment:
> I have gotten quotes on Trane, American Standard, America Star,
> Comfortmaker, and Westinghouse.
> I have been told that Trane, American Standard, and America Star are
> all about the same since they are made by the same company. Is this
> correct? Is there really that big of a difference between these
> brands or are they all sufficient?
>
> Price:
> I have been quoted between $6,500 - $10,000 for this project
>
> Condenser:
> I have heard estimates of 2 ton and a 3.5 for the condenser. No one
> has done a Manual J yet. Will they Manual J always come out the same,
> or can the contractors fudge the numbers to make is say what they want
> it to say?
>
> Furnace vs. Air Handler:
> I have baseboard steam/radiant heat so I really don't need a furnace.
> However it would be nice to be able to control my heat on really cold
> nights and have it as a backup. Some contractors told me that they can
> actually get the furnace cheaper than an air handler.
> Will a 100,000 BTU 80% furnace be any louder than an air handler?
> Is there anything I should be concerned with?
>
> Ductwork:
> I am having the ductwork installed in my ceiling in the non-conditioned
> space. I know the duct needs to be insulated. The contractors very on
> how they want to insulate the duct from using fiberglass, bubble
> insulation, and the factor-insulated ductwork.
> Is there a big problem with any of these methods? Is the
> factory-insulated ductwork that much better? If so does it cost a lot
> more?
>
> Any advice would be very much appreciated.
>
> Thanks!!!
Ok... here ya go....
In essence what you have just done is poped up in the middle of an
international car show and asked "how much is a car"
If you call a Kia dealer, and ask "how much is a car", your going to get a
whole lot different price than calling a Ferrari dealer and asking the same
question.... that is when they get done laughing.
The first thing is getting the calculations done to correctly size a system
for *your* home, in *your* location. No there is no such thing as a "rule of
thumb" other than most folks have 2 of them. Then you need to find a
contractor that will give you the very best quality installation, then
*last* pick out a brand of equipment. FWIW, when doing the calculations,
every dimension in every conditioned space, including windows, doors etc,
and what type they are need to be figured in along with all the insulation
factors, even down to which way the building faces. That will give a pretty
good estimation of what the heating and cooling requirements will be for
your home.
Nobody can tell you over the internet, what you actually *need*. Short of
doing all the design calculations, anything else is a guess.
I don't know about you, but I really don't want to base an investment that I
will have to live with for the next 18 - 20 years on a *guess*.
| |
| daveg.01@gmail.com 2006-02-22, 5:21 pm |
| I understand that price will vary by contractor due to many variables
(equipment, number of returns, quality of work, etc).
I guess the main question was about the requirements of insulating the
ductwork in a non-conditioned space (above my ceiling). I have heard
conflicting openions from the contractors and I wanted to get some more
feedback on that issue.
I was also hoping to get some feedback on Manual J Calculation and how
it might or might not vary by contractor.
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-02-22, 5:21 pm |
| On 22 Feb 2006 12:58:18 -0800, daveg.01@gmail.com wrote:
>I understand that price will vary by contractor due to many variables
>(equipment, number of returns, quality of work, etc).
>
>I guess the main question was about the requirements of insulating the
>ductwork in a non-conditioned space (above my ceiling). I have heard
>conflicting openions from the contractors and I wanted to get some more
>feedback on that issue.
>
>I was also hoping to get some feedback on Manual J Calculation and how
>it might or might not vary by contractor.
Do it in alt.home.repair, not here.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
|
| On 22 Feb 2006 12:58:18 -0800, daveg.01@gmail.com wrote:
>I understand that price will vary by contractor due to many variables
>(equipment, number of returns, quality of work, etc).
>
>I guess the main question was about the requirements of insulating the
>ductwork in a non-conditioned space (above my ceiling). I have heard
>conflicting openions from the contractors and I wanted to get some more
>feedback on that issue.
>
>I was also hoping to get some feedback on Manual J Calculation and how
>it might or might not vary by contractor.
Insulating ductwork in an unconditioned space is required. Otherwise,
it dont work well.
Manual J: Simple. "Garbage in Garbage out"
Bubba
| |
| Oscar_Lives 2006-02-22, 11:21 pm |
|
<daveg.01@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1140631506.873348.166980@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I am getting ready to install central air in my 3rd (top) floor Chicago
> condo. I have got several bids but almost everyone tells me a
> different story. I was wondering if you guys could offer some advice
> on what I might be missing.
>
> My condo is 23' x 60' and has 4 bedrooms, 1 bath, kitchen, dinning,
> living
>
> Note that I only plan on living here for another 2-3 years max so I
> don't want to overspend on this project.
>
> Equipment:
> I have gotten quotes on Trane, American Standard, America Star,
> Comfortmaker, and Westinghouse.
> I have been told that Trane, American Standard, and America Star are
> all about the same since they are made by the same company. Is this
> correct? Is there really that big of a difference between these
> brands or are they all sufficient?
>
> Price:
> I have been quoted between $6,500 - $10,000 for this project
>
> Condenser:
> I have heard estimates of 2 ton and a 3.5 for the condenser. No one
> has done a Manual J yet. Will they Manual J always come out the same,
> or can the contractors fudge the numbers to make is say what they want
> it to say?
>
> Furnace vs. Air Handler:
> I have baseboard steam/radiant heat so I really don't need a furnace.
> However it would be nice to be able to control my heat on really cold
> nights and have it as a backup. Some contractors told me that they can
> actually get the furnace cheaper than an air handler.
> Will a 100,000 BTU 80% furnace be any louder than an air handler?
> Is there anything I should be concerned with?
>
> Ductwork:
> I am having the ductwork installed in my ceiling in the non-conditioned
> space. I know the duct needs to be insulated. The contractors very on
> how they want to insulate the duct from using fiberglass, bubble
> insulation, and the factor-insulated ductwork.
> Is there a big problem with any of these methods? Is the
> factory-insulated ductwork that much better? If so does it cost a lot
> more?
>
> Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Lose some weight and buy some new clothes.
>
> Thanks!!!
You are welcome.
>
| |
|
| In article <1140641898.948004.270990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
daveg.01@gmail.com wrote:
> I understand that price will vary by contractor due to many variables
Nobody here gives a shit. You aren't in HVAC so take it to
alt.home.repair.
--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.
*Hack* *Hack* *hack*
| |
| ~^Johnny^~ 2006-02-25, 2:21 am |
| On 22 Feb 2006 10:05:06 -0800, daveg.01@gmail.com wrote:
>I am getting ready to install central air in my 3rd (top) floor Chicago
>condo. I have got several bids but almost everyone tells me a
>different story. I was wondering if you guys could offer some advice
>on what I might be missing.
You'd be better off posting in alt.home.repair or misc.consumers.
Many HVAC guys and contractors hang in those groups, anyway,
and contractor bidding is all over the place, much as are insurance
quotes.
You have some homework to do
You will have to post to the consumer groups, surf the web using
profusion.com - if it's busy or down, use http://37.com or
http://dogpile.com. or even Google.
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
| |
| Taylor Morrison 2006-02-25, 3:21 am |
| Bill wrote:
> In article <1140641898.948004.270990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> daveg.01@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Nobody here gives a shit. You aren't in HVAC so take it to
> alt.home.repair.
Don't worry about him, this is NOT a moderated group. Your manual J
calculation should be the just about the same no matter who does it, if it
is done properly. It is a subjective, not objective measurement of your
home's heat gain/heat loss. If a contractor says that he can tell what you
need without calculating the numbers, you aren't interested in that
contractor. You want to find a professional, not someone that doesn't know
anything besides crude jokes and telling you that HVAC questions don't
belong in an HVAC group for example.
| |
| Taylor Morrison 2006-02-25, 3:21 am |
| ..x-no-archive: yes
p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On 22 Feb 2006 10:05:06 -0800, daveg.01@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> No. I advise you to go post in the right forum,
> alt.home.repair.
>
> This is NOT a home-owner-help forum !!!
Nobody made you a moderator.
| |
|
| In article <43FFF6F2.BC49463F@spam.free>,
Taylor Morrison <taylor@spam.free>the dumbass wrote:
>
> anything besides crude jokes and telling you that HVAC questions don't
> belong in an HVAC group for example.
This group was started for people connected to the trade of HVAC. Not
homeowners and the question filled clueless.
You need to find the HVAC question group. You're in the wrong one bud.
We aren't here for you. Take your sob story down the road. You want
answers call a local HVAC company.
--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.
*Hack* *Hack* *hack*
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-02-25, 10:21 am |
| On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:21:12 -0500, Taylor Morrison <taylor@spam.free>
wrote:
>.x-no-archive: yes
>p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>
>
>Nobody made you a moderator.
Fuck off, new meat.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| CAVHBC 2006-02-26, 4:21 am |
|
"Taylor Morrison" <taylor@spam.free> wrote in message
news:43FFF758.2FBDA100@spam.free...
> .x-no-archive: yes
> p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>
>
> Nobody made you a moderator.
But you made yourself net nanny...
Damn..one born every minute....
>
| |
| Taylor Morrison 2006-02-26, 11:21 pm |
| ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:21:12 -0500, Taylor Morrison <taylor@spam.free>
> wrote:
>
>
> Fuck off, new meat.
Sorry, no. If you want to, feel free though.
| |
| Taylor Morrison 2006-02-26, 11:21 pm |
| CAVHBC wrote:
> "Taylor Morrison" <taylor@spam.free> wrote in message
> news:43FFF758.2FBDA100@spam.free...
>
> But you made yourself net nanny...
>
> Damn..one born every minute....
No nannies here, nor am I telling anyone to 'f--- off' , LoL!
| |
| Taylor Morrison 2006-02-26, 11:21 pm |
| Bill wrote:
> In article <43FFF6F2.BC49463F@spam.free>,
> Taylor Morrison <taylor@spam.free>the dumbass wrote:
>
>
> This group was started for people connected to the trade of HVAC. Not
> homeowners and the question filled clueless.
> You need to find the HVAC question group. You're in the wrong one bud.
This is an alt group. No need to be a wannabe net nanny, Bill. 
>
>
> We aren't here for you.
Nobody claimed you were here for anything.
> Take your sob story down the road. You want
> answers call a local HVAC company.
CLUE: I'm not looking for answers from you,, because I don't like
incompetence, LoL! Have a good one!
| |
| daveg.01@gmail.com 2006-02-27, 1:21 pm |
| Thanks, that is the confirmation I was looking for concerning the
manual j calculation.
|
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