|
Home > Archive > Heating and air conditioning > March 2006 > home not cooling
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
|
|
| katrina 2006-03-03, 11:21 am |
| At least 4 times wihin the past of couple of years, i had called A/C
maintenance people to take a look at my a/c unit for not giving cool
air. They all found freon level was too low. Filled the freon,
tightened the valve here and there. But few weeks later, the same
problem again. One a/c guy said coil was leaking and gave me an
estimate of $3000 to replace it. i called other a/c guy for his
opinion. He said there was nothing wrong with coil system. Coil is in
my attic. i did notice, attic gets cool when i run the a/c although
there is no a/c vent in attic. then i found out there was cold blow of
air coming from joints around the coil system box. is it normal to get
cool air blowing out from coil system? I taped all those joint
openings. i also hear some hoarse/dry noise coming out of the coil in
the attic that i do not hear from another coil system in the first
floor (we have two a/c system, one for each floor). Eveytime a/c guys
show up they fill up the freon, clean the shrubs around compressor,
tightens the valves, but the problem does not go away. i wanted to put
this problem here before calling a/c guy for the fifth time. what
should i ask him? why they can not fix the leak which is the obvious
problem? How do i find out the leak and fix it?
| |
| Noon-Air 2006-03-03, 11:21 am |
| Call a real tech, not just the lowest price or the $19.95 special from the
penny saver paper.
"katrina" <ashamailbox-one@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141397031.061990.93410@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> At least 4 times wihin the past of couple of years, i had called A/C
> maintenance people to take a look at my a/c unit for not giving cool
> air. They all found freon level was too low. Filled the freon,
> tightened the valve here and there. But few weeks later, the same
> problem again. One a/c guy said coil was leaking and gave me an
> estimate of $3000 to replace it. i called other a/c guy for his
> opinion. He said there was nothing wrong with coil system. Coil is in
> my attic. i did notice, attic gets cool when i run the a/c although
> there is no a/c vent in attic. then i found out there was cold blow of
> air coming from joints around the coil system box. is it normal to get
> cool air blowing out from coil system? I taped all those joint
> openings. i also hear some hoarse/dry noise coming out of the coil in
> the attic that i do not hear from another coil system in the first
> floor (we have two a/c system, one for each floor). Eveytime a/c guys
> show up they fill up the freon, clean the shrubs around compressor,
> tightens the valves, but the problem does not go away. i wanted to put
> this problem here before calling a/c guy for the fifth time. what
> should i ask him? why they can not fix the leak which is the obvious
> problem? How do i find out the leak and fix it?
>
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-03, 12:21 pm |
| On 3 Mar 2006 06:43:51 -0800, "katrina" <ashamailbox-one@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>At least 4 times wihin the past of couple of years, i had called A/C
Post in alt.home.repair, not here.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-03, 3:21 pm |
| "katrina" <ashamailbox-one@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141397031.061990.93410@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> They all found freon level was too low. Filled the freon,
> tightened the valve here and there. But few weeks later, the same
> problem again. One a/c guy said coil was leaking and gave me an
> estimate of $3000 to replace it.
you have a REFRIGERANT leak, and have probably been getting "hook & book"
technicians (get you on the hook with as little effort as possible, get
paid, and haul XXX). REFRIGERANT leak detection can be a tedious, lengthy
process but most any leak (including coil leaks) can be repaired. the
biggest trouble is that most technicians surprisingly dont know how to find
leaks. i recommend that you call a reputable service company and discuss
the issue with the service manager. tell him that you want your leak found,
so that the service manager knows to send someone out with proper leak
detection equipment. he will also know in advance to prepare to spend a lot
of time at your house, and schedule accordingly.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
|
| On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:55:55 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>"katrina" <ashamailbox-one@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1141397031.061990.93410@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
>you have a REFRIGERANT leak, and have probably been getting "hook & book"
>technicians (get you on the hook with as little effort as possible, get
>paid, and haul XXX). REFRIGERANT leak detection can be a tedious, lengthy
>process but most any leak (including coil leaks) can be repaired. the
>biggest trouble is that most technicians surprisingly dont know how to find
>leaks. i recommend that you call a reputable service company and discuss
>the issue with the service manager. tell him that you want your leak found,
>so that the service manager knows to send someone out with proper leak
>detection equipment. he will also know in advance to prepare to spend a lot
>of time at your house, and schedule accordingly.
Nate,
Although your post was a good guess Im afraid you were just a wee bit
wrong. Here is what Ms. Katrina has been getting:
Spring time rolls around and all of a sudden there is a hot day. Ms.
grabs all the local ads and looks for the guy that has the cheapest
price on a "tune-em-up" (notice tune up, NOT a Service Call).
They then send out the newest, youngest dumbest "maintenance" tech
they have. He arrives and then finds out the unit is in an attic and
didnt even know you could put them there. There is probably no
reasonable access to the attic along with no light and no walkboards
up there. Just as he makes his way into the 120 degree + attic, Ms
yells to him, "hey, while you are up there can you see if there is a
freezone leak? This way she saves the service call/diagnostic charge.
The poor kid wouldnt know an electronic leak detector if it hit him in
the head along with the fact that the cheapest companies out there
cant afford to buy detectors. The kid has 10 more "tune-em-ups" to do
that day so its a whole lot quicker and easier to just throw some
freezone in and head to the next call. The maintenance techs are also
paid to turn in leads so he gives the info to the office and they send
out the $3000 salesman. So all the A/C guys are stupid idiots because
Ms doesnt want to call in and tell the company the REAL reason she is
calling. Because she has a leak but doesnt want to pay to fix it.
Sorry honey, Ive seen that song and dance too too many times.
You aint foolin no one here.
Bubba
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-03, 6:21 pm |
| On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:17:17 GMT, Bubba <<ReMoVe likealake@iname.com>>
wrote:
>On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:55:55 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
><Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>
How the fuck do you pretend to know that without ever having
seen the system ?
[color=darkred]
What leak ? How do you KNOW there's a leak ? It could be a
dozen other things, or a hundred.
[color=darkred]
>
>Nate,
>Although your post was a good guess Im afraid you were just a wee bit
>wrong. Here is what Ms. Katrina has been getting:
>Spring time rolls around and all of a sudden there is a hot day. Ms.
>grabs all the local ads and looks for the guy that has the cheapest
>price on a "tune-em-up" (notice tune up, NOT a Service Call).
>They then send out the newest, youngest dumbest "maintenance" tech
>they have. He arrives and then finds out the unit is in an attic and
>didnt even know you could put them there.
It's easy. You have to catch 'em when the house is going up,
before the rafters go in. Then you hire a fucking helicopter.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-03, 7:21 pm |
| "Bubba >" <<ReMoVe likealake@iname.com> wrote in message
news:8qbh021q336frpvt2cq45t771r4fsn89lv@4ax.com...
> Nate,
> Although your post was a good guess Im afraid you were just a wee bit
> wrong. Here is what Ms. Katrina has been getting:
your guess is as good as mine. i suspect the truth lies somewhere in the
middle. customers are _always_ trying to beat the system as you suggest,
and on the other hand there are a lot of incompetant technicians that know
how to pass a test but when it comes to applying that knowledge in the field
they couldnt pour piss out of a boot with the instructions written on the
heel.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| nativecrafts@gmail.com 2006-03-03, 9:21 pm |
| >So all the A/C guys are stupid idiots because
>Ms doesnt want to call in and tell the company the REAL reason she is
>calling.
What could be my real reason besides telling that my home is not
cooling? it is tech's responsibility to tell me why it was not
cooling. All of them filled up the freon and tightened the valves here
and there and left. Every time they came, i made it a point to tell
them freon was added previously not too long ago and one of the techs
suspected leak in coil system. I was surprised the last tech told be
freon runs in a closed system and practically it should never run out!
Why was not I told that by others? Couple of them spent more than an
hour figuring out the problem. They did appear to be genuinely putting
their effort to figure out the problem. No solution yet. The last
tech is showing up again next week. Thanks Bubba. I wish you see my
A/C.
| |
|
| On 3 Mar 2006 16:31:39 -0800, nativecrafts@gmail.com wrote:
>
>What could be my real reason besides telling that my home is not
>cooling? it is tech's responsibility to tell me why it was not
>cooling. All of them filled up the freon and tightened the valves here
>and there and left. Every time they came, i made it a point to tell
>them freon was added previously not too long ago and one of the techs
>suspected leak in coil system. I was surprised the last tech told be
>freon runs in a closed system and practically it should never run out!
>Why was not I told that by others? Couple of them spent more than an
>hour figuring out the problem. They did appear to be genuinely putting
>their effort to figure out the problem. No solution yet. The last
>tech is showing up again next week. Thanks Bubba. I wish you see my
>A/C.
The hell with your A/C. Id rather just see your tits.
Now, back to the question again. Did you or Did you NOT call those
hvac companies and ask them on the phone for just a tune up/clean and
check or did you specifically call and ask for a service/trouble call
because your A/C was not cooling right?
Also, was it a preseason discounted price?
Bubba
| |
|
| By the way, I may be your mothers age!
I called A/C guys to complain that my home was not cooling. It was NOT
regular service/maintenance call. Of course, the first one treated the
problem like regular service call and left. I got alarmed when
problem reappeared few months later and started calling other
companies. Two of the techs spent too long, at least in my opinion, to
diagnose the problem and I got very good impression that they knew what
they were doing! They were doing A/C work all their life!
| |
| Bubba 2006-03-03, 10:21 pm |
| On 3 Mar 2006 17:19:46 -0800, "k" <ashamailbox-one@yahoo.com> wrote:
>By the way, I may be your mothers age!
>
>I called A/C guys to complain that my home was not cooling. It was NOT
>regular service/maintenance call. Of course, the first one treated the
>problem like regular service call and left. I got alarmed when
>problem reappeared few months later and started calling other
>companies. Two of the techs spent too long, at least in my opinion, to
>diagnose the problem and I got very good impression that they knew what
>they were doing! They were doing A/C work all their life!
By the way, I may be my mothers age.
Maybe I like "experienced" women?
Now how big are your tits and how good looking are you?
Bubba
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-03, 11:21 pm |
| "k" <ashamailbox-one@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141435186.790800.237620@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Two of the techs spent too long, at least in my opinion, to
> diagnose the problem
first off you dont know enough about this to determine if something took to
long. dont get me started there. if you knew enough to know how long it
should take, you should be able to diagnose/fix it your goddamn self. few
things burn my XXX as much as a customer complaining that an employee took
to long. quite possibly your technicians were inept......quite possibly
your REFRIGERANT leak is a real XXXXX to find. perhaps the technicial was
doing his best to find it when he sensed your impatience. ive given you the
solution to your problem, in my first response.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-03, 11:21 pm |
| <nativecrafts@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141432299.838646.38430@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> All of them filled up the freon
they did not "full up freon". they CHARGED the REFRIGERANT. displays of
ignorance may fly in general circles but if youre going to "hang out"
amongst professionals (ive been lurking here for a bit and can assure you
this group is full of true masters of their trades) of any trade i suggest
you learn the proper terminology.
> I was surprised the last tech told be
> freon runs in a closed system
but yet you know enough to conclude that the technicians were taking to
long? initially i felt your concerns were valid, but now my patience has
expired. do what i told you to do in my initial response.
> Why was not I told that by others?
the technicians job is NOT to educate you on the fundamental principles of
hvac. if he had explained this to you and then put that time on your bill
you would have complained about how long it took. make up your mind.
smooches,
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com.
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Noon-Air 2006-03-04, 12:21 am |
|
"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:eV6Of.22$Ys1.1021@news.uswest.net...
> <nativecrafts@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1141432299.838646.38430@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> they did not "full up freon". they CHARGED the REFRIGERANT. displays of
> ignorance may fly in general circles but if youre going to "hang out"
> amongst professionals (ive been lurking here for a bit and can assure you
> this group is full of true masters of their trades) of any trade i suggest
> you learn the proper terminology.
Try again there sport... if it was done correctly, the tech balanced the
refrigerant charge using superheat and subcooling.
The last tech is correct... the refrigerant is in a closed system and should
*never* escape unless there is a leak. Leaks need to be found and repaired.
[color=darkred]
> but yet you know enough to conclude that the technicians were taking to
> long? initially i felt your concerns were valid, but now my patience has
> expired. do what i told you to do in my initial response.
>
>
> the technicians job is NOT to educate you on the fundamental principles of
> hvac. if he had explained this to you and then put that time on your bill
> you would have complained about how long it took. make up your mind.
>
> smooches,
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://InlineDiesel.com
> http://BighornRefrigeration.com
> http://ConcealedCarryForum.com.
>
| |
| Oscar_Lives 2006-03-04, 3:21 am |
|
"k" <ashamailbox-one@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141435186.790800.237620@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> By the way, I may be your mothers age!
>
Bubba's mother has pretty nice tits. They are a little bigger than my
mom's.
What is the diameter of your areola?
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-04, 4:21 am |
| <.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:t1dh025nt7tqeu07l9gdibnui8ajpagjf4@4ax.com...
>
> How the fuck do you pretend to know that without ever having
> seen the system ?
any system that requires multiple chargings is leaking.
>
> What leak ? How do you KNOW there's a leak ? It could be a
> dozen other things, or a hundred.
ok mr. dominant internet man, do tell me what else would require mutilple
chargings. dont even bother with a hundred things, just give me your
dozen......or even 1. 1 charging due to an initial under-charge is
possible, but not multiple chargings. i suppose its possible that the
refrigerant fairies sneak up in the middle of the night to huff the
refrigerant, but thats so unlikely that its not even worth considering.
unless given cause to believe otherwise, i tend to give the technician the
benefit of any doubt. the technician has been to the jobsite, i have not.
i drew my conclusion based on the limited data provided, and not by a desire
to make a name for myself in this newsgroup.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
>
>
> It's easy. You have to catch 'em when the house is going up,
> before the rafters go in. Then you hire a fucking helicopter.
>
>
> --
>
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
>
| |
|
|
| Noon-Air 2006-03-04, 10:21 am |
|
"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:GcbOf.42$Ys1.1236@news.uswest.net...
> "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:semdnW5ODeALkJTZRVn-rg@comcast.com...
>
> which is standard proceedure for properly charging refrigerant (although i
> disagree with checking both on residential hvac) which is what i said to
> begin with
If you don't check *both*, you are missing a big chunk of the information
needed to insure proper operation of the system, and doing a grave
dis-service to the customer.
Do yourself a favor and always do to your customers, the same way you would
have it done if it was *your* home, and *you* were paying the bill, and with
*you* being in the trade.
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-04, 11:23 am |
| On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:16:23 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:t1dh025nt7tqeu07l9gdibnui8ajpagjf4@4ax.com...
>
>any system that requires multiple chargings is leaking.
And how exactly do you know that these assholes were RIGHT
about it needing freon, as opposed to 'just dumping some in' ????
Did you ever, in your vast travels, see an OVER CHARGED SYSTEM
because the last 4 assholes there kept adding charge instead of FIXING
it ???
How, from behind your computer out there in Montana, do you
know that this system doesn't have 12 lbs in it right now, when
factory charge is 5 ( or whatever ), thanks to a series of idiots
'just adding freon' ?
And now to my question once again : " How the fuck do you
pretend to know that without ever having seen the system ?"
>
>ok mr. dominant internet man, do tell me what else would require mutilple
>chargings. dont even bother with a hundred things, just give me your
>dozen......or even 1. 1 charging due to an initial under-charge is
Idiot - read above.
>possible, but not multiple chargings. i suppose its possible that the
>refrigerant fairies sneak up in the middle of the night to huff the
>refrigerant, but thats so unlikely that its not even worth considering.
>unless given cause to believe otherwise, i tend to give the technician the
>benefit of any doubt. the technician has been to the jobsite, i have not.
Oh, that's why you say ' she was probably a victim of hook and
book'. You assume unethical business practices by these 'techs', and
yet you assume they have technical knowledge and only add freon when
needed. Idiotic.
>i drew my conclusion based on the limited data provided, and not by a desire
>to make a name for myself in this newsgroup.
Moron, I don't need to make a name for myself here, because I
STARTED this place, this forum ! You're bud's with CB ? Ask him
about me before you make an XXXXXXX out of yourself again. You have
no earthly clue who you're arguing with.
BTW - it's prety fucking stupid to put a scan of your CCW on
the web, even with details blurred out. 5 minutes with Photoshop, and
any idiot can have a nice CCW with YOUR picture on it !
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-04, 11:23 am |
| On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:20:20 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>"Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:semdnW5ODeALkJTZRVn-rg@comcast.com...
>
>which is standard proceedure for properly charging refrigerant (although i
>disagree with checking both on residential hvac) which is what i said to
>begin with.
And you figure the 'hook and book artists', which you say the
'techs' were, did a nice job of correctly diagnosing and charging the
system ?
You don't figure they maybe JUST FUCKING DUMPED SOME FREON IN
AND WROTE THE BILL ???? No chance of that, huh ? You can tell this
from behind your computer out there in Montana, based on what the
home-owner said ?
Damn, you must be good.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| Murdentech 2006-03-04, 1:29 pm |
|
<nativecrafts@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141432299.838646.38430@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> What could be my real reason besides telling that my home is not
> cooling? it is tech's responsibility to tell me why it was not
> cooling. All of them filled up the freon and tightened the valves here
> and there and left. Every time they came, i made it a point to tell
> them freon was added previously not too long ago and one of the techs
> suspected leak in coil system. I was surprised the last tech told be
> freon runs in a closed system and practically it should never run out!
> Why was not I told that by others? Couple of them spent more than an
> hour figuring out the problem. They did appear to be genuinely putting
> their effort to figure out the problem. No solution yet. The last
> tech is showing up again next week. Thanks Bubba. I wish you see my
> A/C.
>
I had one call to a new condo, found a siding nail driven thru the suction
line INSIDE THE WALL... probably is a leak, just needs to be found. The
system will probably have to be evacuated and charge with nitrogen, then
followed thru until the leak is found.... might take a few hours just to
find the leak, then it can be properly repaired, vacuumed down and the
charge weighed back in.... not an easy job sometimes, but cheaper than
repeated service fees.
BTW, $3000 will almost buy a whole new a/c system.
| |
|
| On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:28:36 -0600, "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
>"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>news:GcbOf.42$Ys1.1236@news.uswest.net...
>
>If you don't check *both*, you are missing a big chunk of the information
>needed to insure proper operation of the system, and doing a grave
>dis-service to the customer.
>Do yourself a favor and always do to your customers, the same way you would
>have it done if it was *your* home, and *you* were paying the bill, and with
>*you* being in the trade.
>
>
I see your dad and my dad must have talked?
Never forget,...................
When I first started in this business working with my
dad..............and I still do. I was just a little whipper snapper
and remember constantly asking him, "How should I do this?, Which way
should I fix this? Should I do this, this way or that way?" I guess he
finally got tired of answering me and one day he came up with the best
answer of all which I still follow to this day.....................
"Son, just do it the way you would do it in your own home".
Okay, Okay, it was probably more like:
"God damit Bubba. Why dont you use that damn grey matter between your
ears that god gave you and fix the sunz-a-biatch like you would if it
was in your own damn trailer" haha.
Bubba
| |
| Noon-Air 2006-03-04, 8:21 pm |
|
"Murdentech" <j. murden @ insight bb.com> wrote in message
news:mLjOf.801358$x96.307819@attbi_s72...
>
> <nativecrafts@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1141432299.838646.38430@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> I had one call to a new condo, found a siding nail driven thru the suction
> line INSIDE THE WALL... probably is a leak, just needs to be found. The
> system will probably have to be evacuated and charge with nitrogen, then
> followed thru until the leak is found.... might take a few hours just to
> find the leak, then it can be properly repaired, vacuumed down and the
> charge weighed back in.... not an easy job sometimes, but cheaper than
> repeated service fees.
Had a lot of problems here with roofing nails in linesets since Katrina.
> BTW, $3000 will almost buy a whole new a/c system.
Not since the first of January...all the 10 and 12SEER has been gone for
many months. The new stuff is starting to trickle in now. Figure an average
cost of a 3 ton base-line, heat pump system change-out to be around $4500
(gas heat is about a grand more) and it goes up from there.
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-04, 10:21 pm |
| "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:c8GdnSVsBpSbC5TZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@comcast.com...
> If you don't check *both*, you are missing a big chunk of the information
> needed to insure proper operation of the system
i disagree. where a repetitive issue exists it makes perfect sense to check
both. this does not make it a blanket practice as your original statement
suggests. could it be justified? sure. is it necessary to check both on
EVERY call? absolutely not. i do check superheat on EVERY call, but only
check subcooling when necessary.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-04, 11:21 pm |
| <.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:mc9j025nen1qmnpo791u5k2506nrou925a@4ax.com...
> And how exactly do you know that these assholes were RIGHT
> about it needing freon, as opposed to 'just dumping some in' ????
i dont......nor do you know they were wrong. HOWEVER, given the limited
data we're working with i would tend to trust another technician moreso than
a homeowner.
> Did you ever, in your vast travels, see an OVER CHARGED SYSTEM
> because the last 4 assholes there kept adding charge instead of FIXING
> it ???
absolutely, by hook & books. i would really be surprised however, to have 4
technicians in a row make the same mistake.
> How, from behind your computer out there in Montana, do you
> know that this system doesn't have 12 lbs in it right now, when
> factory charge is 5 ( or whatever ), thanks to a series of idiots
> 'just adding freon' ?
dont be stupid.
> And now to my question once again : " How the fuck do you
> pretend to know that without ever having seen the system ?"
isnt this what ive already said? im basing my conclusion on the limited
data provided. what the FUCK have you done to offer ANY assistance at all
other than to try to be "the man" by finding fault in the suggestions of
others?
thats right......nothing.
>
> Idiot - read above.
TRANSLATION --> "i cannot provide the dozen other things i said it could be"
.......of course i already knew that you couldnt.
> Oh, that's why you say ' she was probably a victim of hook and
> book'. You assume unethical business practices by these 'techs', and
> yet you assume they have technical knowledge and only add freon when
> needed. Idiotic.
are you even in the industry? do you actually work in the field, or do you
stand behind a counter selling parts? you dont seem to have much experience
in dealing with techs. ANY tech should be able to determine low charge
(although granted, many cant). working with the limited data provided, my
"best guess" (which is a hell of a lot more than you have done) is that they
keep charging refrigerant due to a low charge. the homeowner stated that
the system doesnt cool. techs come out and charge the refrigerant, and it
cools for a couple months. then it stops cooling, and the cycle repeats.
now tell me mr. dominant internet "it could be a hundred other things", what
else would cause those symptoms. if the system had been overcharged 4 times
in a row it would not be cooling for a couple months after the technician
charges it again. in your pitiful attempt at establishing yourself as the
"alpha-tech" you failed to LISTEN to the homeowner.
> Moron, I don't need to make a name for myself here
yes you do......its why you pitifully attempt to dictate content.
> because I
> STARTED this place, this forum !
.......and you worked with al gore to create the internet too im sure.
anybody can propose a newsgroup......big deal. once its up, its no more
yours than anyone elses.
> Ask him
> about me before you make an XXXXXXX out of yourself again. You have
> no earthly clue who you're arguing with.
lol.....im sure youre one "bad mother fucker". im sure grown men cry at the
mention of your name, and all that billy bad-XXX stuff. i have no doubt
that youre an internet super-star.
> BTW - it's prety fucking stupid to put a scan of your CCW on
> the web, even with details blurred out. 5 minutes with Photoshop, and
> any idiot can have a nice CCW with YOUR picture on it !
if you want to commit a FELONY, have at it. your actions are not my
responsibility, and ive broken no law. sheesh, not only do you try to
police an unmoderated newsgroup, youre even going to try to police what i
can put on the internet. :-)
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-04, 11:21 pm |
| <.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:50aj02pevlclcpk5bpdhm76s6s4cma8mjg@4ax.com...
> And you figure the 'hook and book artists', which you say the
> 'techs' were, did a nice job of correctly diagnosing and charging the
> system ?
dont be stupid. im working on very limited data. youre working
on......well.....just being an XXXXXXX. :-)
> You don't figure they maybe JUST FUCKING DUMPED SOME FREON IN
> AND WROTE THE BILL ???? No chance of that, huh ? You can tell this
> from behind your computer out there in Montana, based on what the
> home-owner said ?
mr dominant internet man, DO give me one of your "hundred" other
possibilities then. the homeowner stated that it wasnt cooling, they charge
it and it cools. cycle repeats. if the system were overcharged to begin
with, it wouldnt start cooling again for a couple months by adding even more
refrigerant. the logical conclusion (combined with what the techs told the
homeowner) is that she has a refrigerant leak.
> Damn, you must be good.
you dont even have to be "good" to draw this very reasonable conclusion.
you just need a little field experience.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-04, 11:21 pm |
| On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:26:01 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:mc9j025nen1qmnpo791u5k2506nrou925a@4ax.com...
>
>i dont......nor do you know they were wrong. HOWEVER, given the limited
>data we're working with i would tend to trust another technician moreso than
>a homeowner.
You trust what you yourself have called 'hook and book'
artists to correctly service or diagnose a unit ?
>
>
>absolutely, by hook & books. i would really be surprised however, to have 4
>technicians in a row make the same mistake.
Not uncommon at all. And you just got done telling the lady
she was a victim of H & B's.
>
>
>dont be stupid.
You're the one who stated "it has a leak", not me. I want to
know how you diagnosed that ?
>
>
>
>isnt this what ive already said? im basing my conclusion on the limited
>data provided. what the FUCK have you done to offer ANY assistance at all
>other than to try to be "the man" by finding fault in the suggestions of
>others?
>
>thats right......nothing.
Guess what - this is not a home-moaner advice forum.
>
>
>
>TRANSLATION --> "i cannot provide the dozen other things i said it could be"
>
>......of course i already knew that you couldnt.
No translation needed. "Idiot - read above". it's rather
plain. Youmight need help reading it, I understand.....
>
>
>
>are you even in the industry? do you actually work in the field, or do you
>stand behind a counter selling parts? you dont seem to have much experience
When the day comes when I feel like I have to explain my
background to you, I fucking well will. Untill then, maybe if your'e
lucky CB will clue you in.
>in dealing with techs. ANY tech should be able to determine low charge
>(although granted, many cant). working with the limited data provided, my
>"best guess" (which is a hell of a lot more than you have done)
You're damned right. Because I don't guess. I diagnose. A
skill you and your H&B boys might try to acquire some day.
>keep charging refrigerant due to a low charge. the homeowner stated that
>the system doesnt cool. techs come out and charge the refrigerant, and it
>cools for a couple months. then it stops cooling, and the cycle repeats.
>now tell me mr. dominant internet "it could be a hundred other things", what
>else would cause those symptoms. if the system had been overcharged 4 times
>in a row it would not be cooling for a couple months after the technician
>charges it again. in your pitiful attempt at establishing yourself as the
>"alpha-tech" you failed to LISTEN to the homeowner.
OK, fucking moron. Hree's one clue for you. Let's see if you
have the brains to figure how how the rest of it goes.
"Deteriorating drier".
Now, you take it from there, and see if you can understand how
it can explain the symptomology presented. I promise, it can explain
it 100 %.
>
>
>
>
>yes you do......its why you pitifully attempt to dictate content.
>
>
>
>......and you worked with al gore to create the internet too im sure.
>anybody can propose a newsgroup......big deal. once its up, its no more
>yours than anyone elses.
>
>
>lol.....im sure youre one "bad mother fucker". im sure grown men cry at the
>mention of your name, and all that billy bad-XXX stuff. i have no doubt
>that youre an internet super-star.
You pathetic numbnuts. Go read my fucking resume, for
starters, XXXXXXX. See if you can even find it.
>
>
>
>if you want to commit a FELONY, have at it. your actions are not my
Don't need to, got my own, had it for years. Testified in
front of the State Senate to help get the law passed years ago.
>responsibility, and ive broken no law. sheesh, not only do you try to
>police an unmoderated newsgroup, youre even going to try to police what i
>can put on the internet. :-)
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-04, 11:21 pm |
| On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:29:22 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:50aj02pevlclcpk5bpdhm76s6s4cma8mjg@4ax.com...
>
>dont be stupid. im working on very limited data. youre working
>on......well.....just being an XXXXXXX. :-)
Your'e taking NO data, and pulling some bullshit assumptions
out of your XXX, and that means you're a FUCKING HACK.
>
>
>
>mr dominant internet man, DO give me one of your "hundred" other
>possibilities then. the homeowner stated that it wasnt cooling, they charge
I did. "Deteriorating drier" Take it and run with it. Run
it down for us, how that can cause what the lday describes.
>it and it cools. cycle repeats. if the system were overcharged to begin
>with, it wouldnt start cooling again for a couple months by adding even more
>refrigerant. the logical conclusion (combined with what the techs told the
>homeowner) is that she has a refrigerant leak.
Bullshit - thats the GUESS of a FUCKING HACK. Without proper
information, there can BE NO LOGICAL CONCLUSION, and those that
pretend otherwise are assholes.
>
>
>
>you dont even have to be "good" to draw this very reasonable conclusion.
>you just need a little field experience.
Yeh, right. Being a hack like you.
Are you by any chance related to Weasel ?
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-05, 12:21 am |
| <.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:4tjk02dn3ahnofi3o0c2r4n0a97v6je8ln@4ax.com...
>
> You trust what you yourself have called 'hook and book'
> artists to correctly service or diagnose a unit ?
being a hook & book does not mean that you cannot diagnose a low charge.
>
> Not uncommon at all.
i agree that there are a lot of idiots out there......but if you LISTENED to
the homeowner you would have seen that the system works for a few months
after each trip. the logical conclusion to any tech with any field
experience is that the system is leaking refrigerant based on everything the
homeowner listed.
> And you just got done telling the lady
> she was a victim of H & B's.
WRONG! i listed it as one of many possibilities. there is a distinct
difference, pay attention.
>
> You're the one who stated "it has a leak", not me. I want to
> know how you diagnosed that ?
then you really ARE stupid. i clearly listed my reasons for drawing my
logical conclusion based on the limited data. youre just grasping to find
fault to establish yourself. :-)
>
> Guess what - this is not a home-moaner advice forum.
TRANSLATION --> "i cannot substantiate my own statements".
>
> No translation needed.
TRANSLATION --> "i cannot provide the dozen other things i said it could be"
throw all the bullshit you want, ill continue to call you on your ignorance
until you substantiate your statements.
you[color=darkred]
>
> When the day comes when I feel like I have to explain my
> background
lol.....just what i thought. :-)
> You're damned right. Because I don't guess. I diagnose.
no, you throw bullshit in hopes of fooling somebody. diagnosis is TOTALLY
impossible over the internet.
> "Deteriorating drier".
>
> Now, you take it from there, and see if you can understand how
> it can explain the symptomology presented. I promise, it can explain
> it 100 %.
BULLSHIT. a deteriorating drier would not make an overcharged system cool
again after overcharging further. if youre going to play big-boy games,
learn the basic fundamentals behind the science first.
> Go read my fucking resume
lol......paper means SHIT in the field. i dont care if you can pass a test,
you either produce or you cant.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-05, 12:21 am |
| <.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:sbkk02dr7q3g7gnshi7vjgqmtdhj12siku@4ax.com...
>
> Your'e taking NO data, and pulling some bullshit assumptions
im drawing a logical conclusion based on limited data. im helping the
homeowner, youre just bitching because you cant stand not being the center
of attention. :-)
> out of your XXX, and that means you're a FUCKING HACK.
your insults cannot mask your ignorance, parts boy. :-)
> I did. "Deteriorating drier" Take it and run with it. Run
> it down for us, how that can cause what the lday describes.
lol and youre WRONG. a deteriorating drier will not magically start working
each time its overcharged further. this has been an ongoing problem. you
would kill the compressor before you overcame the restriction.
> Bullshit - thats the GUESS of a FUCKING HACK. Without proper
> information, there can BE NO LOGICAL CONCLUSION, and those that
> pretend otherwise are assholes.
i have never suggested the final solution, which is impossible over the
internet. i have give her a logical conclusion based upon the limited data
which is a HELL of a lot more than you have done for her. in my time
lurking here your only contribution appears to be insulting people and
trying to dictate content. must really suck having it pointed out that you
dont own usenet. :-)
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| Oscar_Lives 2006-03-05, 2:21 am |
|
"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:Q_rOf.54$es1.18672@news.uswest.net...
> lol.....im sure youre one "bad mother fucker". im sure grown men cry at
> the mention of your name, and all that billy bad-XXX stuff. i have no
> doubt that youre an internet super-star.
"internet super-star"??? That's almost as good as licking windows!
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-05, 10:21 am |
| On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:49:54 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:4tjk02dn3ahnofi3o0c2r4n0a97v6je8ln@4ax.com...
>
>being a hook & book does not mean that you cannot diagnose a low charge.
>
>
>
>i agree that there are a lot of idiots out there......but if you LISTENED to
>the homeowner you would have seen that the system works for a few months
>after each trip. the logical conclusion to any tech with any field
>experience is that the system is leaking refrigerant based on everything the
>homeowner listed.
>
>
>
>WRONG! i listed it as one of many possibilities. there is a distinct
>difference, pay attention.
>
>
>
>then you really ARE stupid. i clearly listed my reasons for drawing my
>logical conclusion based on the limited data. youre just grasping to find
>fault to establish yourself. :-)
>
>
>
>TRANSLATION --> "i cannot substantiate my own statements".
>
>
>
>TRANSLATION --> "i cannot provide the dozen other things i said it could be"
>
>throw all the bullshit you want, ill continue to call you on your ignorance
>until you substantiate your statements.
>
>
>you
>
>lol.....just what i thought. :-)
>
>
>
>no, you throw bullshit in hopes of fooling somebody. diagnosis is TOTALLY
>impossible over the internet.
No, it's not. People right here have seen me do it many many
times. But it requires information, not fucking XXXXXXX guesses from
twits like you.
>
>
>
>BULLSHIT. a deteriorating drier would not make an overcharged system cool
>again after overcharging further. if youre going to play big-boy games,
>learn the basic fundamentals behind the science first.
That's what I figured - you have no fucking clue.
You know what ? I WAS going to explain it to you, but you're
too much of an XXXXXXX to understand.
Steve - where in the FUCK do you find these assholes ?
>
>
>
>lol......paper means SHIT in the field. i dont care if you can pass a test,
>you either produce or you cant.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-05, 10:21 am |
| On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:00:38 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
><.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:sbkk02dr7q3g7gnshi7vjgqmtdhj12siku@4ax.com...
>
>im drawing a logical conclusion based on limited data. im helping the
>homeowner, youre just bitching because you cant stand not being the center
>of attention. :-)
>
>
>
>your insults cannot mask your ignorance, parts boy. :-)
>
>
>
>lol and youre WRONG. a deteriorating drier will not magically start working
>each time its overcharged further. this has been an ongoing problem. you
>would kill the compressor before you overcame the restriction.
OK, you clueless fucking moron hack. Here it is , in simple
terms even you can understand.
A ) Drier starts deteriorating, letting off little bits of
dessicant, which
B )Get caught in the screen at the metering device,
restricting flow , so
C) Hack-boy like you comes along, sees low back, and dumps a
few lbs of juice in. Flow increaes because head pressure just went
up. Unit cools for a while.
D ) Drier continues to deteriorate, over a few months time
screeen clogs up more, hack-boy Nate comes along, sees low back
pressure, dumps some more juice in.
E ) etc etc etc
End result - 12 lb charge in a unit that takes 5 lb, 4 service
calls with 'a mysterious leak no one can find', and hacks like you
running their mouths.
>
>
>
>i have never suggested the final solution, which is impossible over the
>internet. i have give her a logical conclusion based upon the limited data
>which is a HELL of a lot more than you have done for her. in my time
>lurking here your only contribution appears to be insulting people and
>trying to dictate content. must really suck having it pointed out that you
>dont own usenet. :-)
In 'your time here', child, which seems to encompass about a
week, you have managed to prove yourself a compleat fucking XXXXXXX, a
hack, and nothing but another one of the many disgraces to our
industry that calls themselves a 'tech'.
BUh by.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| gofish@gonefishin.net 2006-03-05, 10:21 am |
| On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 13:23:40 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:49:54 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
><Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>
> Steve - where in the FUCK do you find these assholes ?
>
prolly the same place he found you shithead
| |
| Noon-Air 2006-03-05, 10:21 am |
|
"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:ZNrOf.53$es1.18616@news.uswest.net...
> "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:c8GdnSVsBpSbC5TZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> i disagree. where a repetitive issue exists it makes perfect sense to
> check both. this does not make it a blanket practice as your original
> statement suggests. could it be justified? sure. is it necessary to
> check both on EVERY call? absolutely not. i do check superheat on EVERY
> call, but only check subcooling when necessary.
If you are not checking *both* superheat and subcooling every time, then
either you are 1) a hack, or 2) just plain lazy.... in any case, your
certainly not a pro.
You can't claim ignorance because you have already admitted that you know to
do it correctly.
How much longer does it take to check both?? How long does it take and how
much trouble is it to move the thermocouple clamp from the suction line to
the liquid line??
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-05, 2:21 pm |
| <.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:ffpl025f1saqmt303c53raj4ta87gkqacc@4ax.com...
>
> No, it's not. People right here have seen me do it many many
> times. But it requires information, not fucking XXXXXXX guesses from
> twits like you.
of everythig i said, this is the section you reply to? wow, i must of hit a
nerve. :-)
>
> That's what I figured - you have no fucking clue.
>
> You know what ? I WAS going to explain it to you,
TRANSLATION --> "i know that my suggestion is wrong".
.....let that one sink in, parts-boy. :-)
> you're
> too much of an XXXXXXX to understand.
yeah the old "youre not worthy" argument. its a common reply when people
are called to task on bullshit.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-05, 2:21 pm |
| <.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:ckpl02d7q3kcq6ue1shvgf044letjlrlgq@4ax.com...
> A ) Drier starts deteriorating, letting off little bits of
> dessicant, which
> B )Get caught in the screen at the metering device,
> restricting flow , so
> C) Hack-boy like you comes along, sees low back, and dumps a
> few lbs of juice in. Flow increaes because head pressure just went
> up. Unit cools for a while.
> D ) Drier continues to deteriorate, over a few months time
> screeen clogs up more, hack-boy Nate comes along, sees low back
> pressure, dumps some more juice in.
> E ) etc etc etc
>
> End result - 12 lb charge in a unit that takes 5 lb, 4 service
> calls with 'a mysterious leak no one can find', and hacks like you
> running their mouths.
youre leaving off critical points which is what leads me to believe that
your experience comes from standing behind a counter selling parts. this
would work once and MAYBE (depending upon the size of the restriction) twice
but not four times and over many months. a residential hvac compressor can
NOT take an overcharge like that. besides, even if that were the case a
decent technician would have realized there was a restriction the FIRST time
my checking amperage after the FIRST over-charging.
> In 'your time here', child, which seems to encompass about a
> week, you have managed to prove yourself a compleat fucking XXXXXXX, a
> hack, and nothing but another one of the many disgraces to our
> industry that calls themselves a 'tech'.
TRANSLATION --> "i just cant take feeling threatened by having my bullshit
thrown back at me".
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-05, 2:21 pm |
| "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:LfCdnWR8SKdwcZfZnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> If you are not checking *both* superheat and subcooling every time, then
> either you are 1) a hack, or 2) just plain lazy.... in any case, your
> certainly not a pro.
so you know how to quote a textbook, good! one day youll figure out how to
apply what you read. have you even finished down at the tech school? youre
also supposed to check your tire pressure EVERY day. do you? of course
not, you know its just not necessary. pay attention. i did not say that i
dont check both. i said that i dont check both on EVERY call. if i
determine a low charge i first find the leak. after repairing the leak ill
weigh in charge, check my superheat, amp draw, temps across the coil, and
call it good. a system with an obvious problem in need of an obvious repair
gets what it needs. when further diagnosis is required then yes check both.
my point is that its not absolutely necessary on EVERY call.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| Noon-Air 2006-03-05, 3:21 pm |
|
"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:WBFOf.14$AE2.1584@news.uswest.net...
> "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:LfCdnWR8SKdwcZfZnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> so you know how to quote a textbook, good! one day youll figure out how
> to apply what you read. have you even finished down at the tech school?
> youre also supposed to check your tire pressure EVERY day. do you? of
> course not, you know its just not necessary. pay attention. i did not
> say that i dont check both. i said that i dont check both on EVERY call.
> if i determine a low charge i first find the leak. after repairing the
> leak ill weigh in charge, check my superheat, amp draw, temps across the
> coil, and call it good. a system with an obvious problem in need of an
> obvious repair gets what it needs. when further diagnosis is required
> then yes check both. my point is that its not absolutely necessary on
> EVERY call.
If your not checking both every time, then your not doing your job. Sure you
repaired a leak, weighed in a charge, checked the superheat and called it
good..... ok... so you still haven't checked the subcooling... You still
haven't finished the job.
Its not the obvious problem that is going to bite you in the XXX....its the
one that you missed because you skipped over steps and took shortcuts.
Now lets try this simple question... What steps do you take before even
putting the gages on the system?? Do you just walk in and slap the gages to
it, juice it up and run also??
As to if I finished tech school or not, well..... lets see.... I did this
along with a lot of other stuff in the military fo 22 years, and have been
in business for myself for 10 years.... what do *you* think???
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-05, 3:21 pm |
| "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4KydnahtV5oXsJbZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@comcast.com...
> If your not checking both every time, then your not doing your job.
you show up on a jobsite for no cooling and find that the condensor fan
motor is seized. you replace the fan motor......tell me why checking the
subcooling is then NECESSARY. its not necessary on EVERY job and you know
it. its taught to check it on every job to remove room for error (knowing
when it is and is not necessary).
> Sure you repaired a leak, weighed in a charge, checked the superheat and
> called it good..... ok... so you still haven't checked the subcooling...
> You still haven't finished the job.
if there was an obvious problem (such as leakage) that was repaired, charge
weighed, amperage and superheat good then the job is finished. checking the
subcooling is not necessary.
> Its not the obvious problem that is going to bite you in the XXX
exactly. when the problem is obvious, fix it and move on. dont waste your
and the customers time by unnecessarily going text-book.
>....its the one that you missed because you skipped over steps and took
>shortcuts.
its not a shortcut if it wasnt related to the problem. its an unnecessary
step.
> Now lets try this simple question... What steps do you take before even
> putting the gages on the system?? Do you just walk in and slap the gages
> to it, juice it up and run also??
first thing you do is LISTEN TO THE CUSTOMER.
> I did this along with a lot of other stuff in the military fo 22 years
so you learned to repair refrigerant leaks with duct tape. :-)
> what do *you* think???
i think that by going text-book on me youre reaching to make a point. i
dont know what point youre trying to make. are you trying to show the world
that youre "super-tech" because you go text-book? fine, youre super-tech.
all hail super-tech. my intent it so serve my customers best interests. by
going text-book i could justify all sorts of checks to drive my customers
bill higher but i prefer to work off what experience has taught me thus only
charging for things my customer actually NEEDS.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| Noon-Air 2006-03-05, 4:21 pm |
|
"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:zwGOf.19$AE2.1691@news.uswest.net...
> "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:4KydnahtV5oXsJbZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> you show up on a jobsite for no cooling and find that the condensor fan
> motor is seized. you replace the fan motor......tell me why checking the
> subcooling is then NECESSARY. its not necessary on EVERY job and you know
> it. its taught to check it on every job to remove room for error (knowing
> when it is and is not necessary).
>
>
> if there was an obvious problem (such as leakage) that was repaired,
> charge weighed, amperage and superheat good then the job is finished.
> checking the subcooling is not necessary.
>
>
>
> exactly. when the problem is obvious, fix it and move on. dont waste
> your and the customers time by unnecessarily going text-book.
>
>
>
> its not a shortcut if it wasnt related to the problem. its an unnecessary
> step.
>
>
>
> first thing you do is LISTEN TO THE CUSTOMER.
>
>
>
> so you learned to repair refrigerant leaks with duct tape. :-)
>
>
>
> i think that by going text-book on me youre reaching to make a point. i
> dont know what point youre trying to make. are you trying to show the
> world that youre "super-tech" because you go text-book? fine, youre
> super-tech. all hail super-tech. my intent it so serve my customers best
> interests. by going text-book i could justify all sorts of checks to
> drive my customers bill higher but i prefer to work off what experience
> has taught me thus only charging for things my customer actually NEEDS.
You still don't get it.... How do you know what your customer needs unless
you do the complete job? Do you not clean/service the system *before*
putting the gages on it?....if so, that's like putting a new carburetor on
an engine without doing a complete major tune up and expecting to be able to
get it adjusted correctly for maximum performance. it just isn't going to
happen.
How can you tell if the refrigerant charge is correct if the coils(both evap
and condenser) are not clean? if the blower wheel is not clean? if the
filter is not clean? if all the registers are not open? if the ductwork
isn't tight?
I expect that you are probably still on T/M, killing yourself by trying to
run a dozen calls a day and not doing any of them right, just trying to do
them fast ... too bad.
Learn to do it right *EVERY* time, and charge accordingly (flat rate makes a
big difference)...
Its not about textbook, its about doing the right things right.
Its not about turning money, its about being profitable.
Its not about shortcuts and get it done quick, its about customer service.
| |
| CAVHBC 2006-03-05, 8:21 pm |
|
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:ffpl025f1saqmt303c53raj4ta87gkqacc@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:49:54 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
> <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>
>
> No, it's not. People right here have seen me do it many many
> times. But it requires information, not fucking XXXXXXX guesses from
> twits like you.
>
>
> That's what I figured - you have no fucking clue.
>
> You know what ? I WAS going to explain it to you, but you're
> too much of an XXXXXXX to understand.
>
> Steve - where in the FUCK do you find these assholes ?
WOAH......oh hell no...
Ive known Nate a hell of a lot longer than anyone in here, and im not
getting drawn into this...
The only two I think are not worth the sweat off my nuts are Mike and that
new fucker....Taylor Morrison Wannabe a Tech..
>
>
> --
>
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-05, 8:21 pm |
| "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:zIKdnXWSzMdIo5bZnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> You still don't get it.
oh i get it, you sell unneeded services to justify your rates.
> How do you know what your customer needs unless you do the complete job?
i do a COMPLETE job. i just dont charge the customer for services THEY DONT
NEED. if a system isnt cooling due to a siezed condensor fan and i replace
the condensor fan, there is no need to check the entire system over unless
youre trying to milk the job. check the basics while youre there certainly,
but opening up the evap case to check the coil is unnecessary no matter how
you try to justify it to yourself.
> Do you not clean/service the system *before* putting the gages on it?
if the system is dirty, yes. you don know that systems will give you
symptoms of being dirty, right?
> How can you tell if the refrigerant charge is correct if the coils(both
> evap and condenser) are not clean?
if you cant diagnose dirty coils you have no business in the business.
> if the blower wheel is not clean? if the filter is not clean? if all the
> registers are not open? if the ductwork isn't tight?
you cannot smokescreen with basic crap. if youre telling me that you also
check ever duct joint on every service call then you are a rip-off artist,
milking the job because you cant get enough customers to sustain through
providing honest work.
> I expect that you are probably still on T/M, killing yourself by trying to
> run a dozen calls a day and not doing any of them right, just trying to do
> them fast ... too bad.
right and wrong. im T/M, and each job is done right and based upon what the
customer NEEDS. i wish you had told me that you were flat rate so that i
would have known up front that youre a scam artist who makes his living
selling anything he can to milk the customer for more and more.
> Learn to do it right *EVERY* time, and charge accordingly (flat rate makes
> a big difference)...
flat rate means youre selling everything you can possibly sell whether the
customer needs it or not. using your own analogy, its like selling the
customer a new head because he has a warped valve. no wonder you check the
superheat on every job. i hadnt reason to question your ethics (or lack of)
beforehand.
> Its not about textbook, its about doing the right things right.
its about repair what is NEEDED and not selling a lot of services that the
customer doesnt need just because they dont know the difference.
> Its not about turning money, its about being profitable.
not if it means ripping people off.
> Its not about shortcuts and get it done quick, its about customer service.
lol....yeah youre doing them a real service by fucking them in the XXX with
repairs they dont need!
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| Noon-Air 2006-03-05, 9:21 pm |
|
"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:YNKOf.47$AE2.1836@news.uswest.net...
> "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:zIKdnXWSzMdIo5bZnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> oh i get it, you sell unneeded services to justify your rates.
>
>
>
> i do a COMPLETE job. i just dont charge the customer for services THEY
> DONT NEED. if a system isnt cooling due to a siezed condensor fan and i
> replace the condensor fan, there is no need to check the entire system
> over unless youre trying to milk the job. check the basics while youre
> there certainly, but opening up the evap case to check the coil is
> unnecessary no matter how you try to justify it to yourself.
I see how you operate... you do as little as possible and charge them for a
service call and what ever parts and labor and milage when you go this time
for a fan motor, then a couple of weeks later the contactor is toast, so you
charge them again, then a couple weeks later those frayed control wires
finally decide to short out, and you charge them again for the service call
and.............Lets see... how many times can you go back to a customers
home in a season???
>
> if the system is dirty, yes. you don know that systems will give you
> symptoms of being dirty, right?
Ummm..... yeah and I check them *BEFORE* I ever put the gages to the
system... if the coils are nasty, I take digital pictures and show the home
owner.
>
> if you cant diagnose dirty coils you have no business in the business.
Shouldn't have to try to diagnose dirty coils with refrigerent
pressures/temperatures... Oh thats right... it takes you too much time to
actually <gasp>look at them.
>
> you cannot smokescreen with basic crap. if youre telling me that you also
> check ever duct joint on every service call then you are a rip-off artist,
> milking the job because you cant get enough customers to sustain through
> providing honest work.
Ain't no smokescreen.... I don't normally check the ductwork if the air
handler/furnace isn't in the attic, and the attic is not used for storage.
>
> right and wrong. im T/M, and each job is done right and based upon what
> the customer NEEDS. i wish you had told me that you were flat rate so
> that i would have known up front that youre a scam artist who makes his
> living selling anything he can to milk the customer for more and more.
Actually the customer is shown what needs fixed and given a list of both
required and suggested repairs along with their prices *BEFORE* any work is
done The customer makes the choice of what gets done and what doesn't and
then signs the ticket to authorize those repairs. There are no surprises.
>
> flat rate means youre selling everything you can possibly sell whether the
> customer needs it or not. using your own analogy, its like selling the
> customer a new head because he has a warped valve. no wonder you check
> the superheat on every job. i hadnt reason to question your ethics (or
> lack of) beforehand.
I always check superheat and sub cooling as a matter of course. there is no
extra charge for that... its part of the diagnostics, and correctly
balancing the refrigerant charge
>
> its about repair what is NEEDED and not selling a lot of services that the
> customer doesnt need just because they dont know the difference.
My customers call me twice a year to check and service their systems. *MOST*
of them never have a failure, and their utility bills drop by as much as
$40/mo. just with regular service. They do know the difference in quality
service, because most all of them have been ripped by "the other guy".
>
> not if it means ripping people off.
To not give the customers system complete service is ripping the customer
off.
>
> lol....yeah youre doing them a real service by fucking them in the XXX
> with repairs they dont need!
Never said they didn't need the repairs, and I never try to sell them
anything they don't *NEED*... never XXX-U-ME anything.
There are a dozen like you around where I live that come and go every
year... I don't mind...when their customers get tired of being raped in the
wallet by the low bidder, they come to me to get it done right, and never
look back.
At this juncture, I am going to put you in the killfile and never look
back.... I've been where you are, and it almost killed me both financially
and physically.
Have a nice life
*PLONK*
| |
| gofish@gonefishin.net 2006-03-05, 11:21 pm |
| On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:59:28 -0600, "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
>"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>news:YNKOf.47$AE2.1836@news.uswest.net...
Sorry Nate, I firmly believe the subject matter is currently beyond
your comprehension.
[color=darkred]
>
>*PLONK*
Steve, it wasnt all that long ago you too were T&M. Then one day a
light bulb illuminated and you joined SRT, and the things you learned
there from other successful hvac contractors opened your eyes to the
far bigger picture.
How many years did you struggle with T&M before seeing the light? We
both know that Nate does not view himself or his company competent or
worthy enough to justify flat rate, that's his problem. A problem
that can be overcome, conditional he's willing to learn more than he
currently thinks he knows.
He thinks he is doing his customers a huge favor by T&M, in reality he
is fucking them. T&M will not purchase him new vehicles (professional
image) , fund his retirement or employee medical benefits, will not
allow him to send his techs out for training such as NCI, will not pay
his way to participate in national conferences, will not ensure he
will be in business to honor all his warranties, the list is endless.
His techs will never be anything more than mediocre, a competent NATE
cerified tech in todays market should be making $50k-$60k a year plus
bennies. Try that on T&M.
When he submits a bid, thats flat rate. When he takes his wife out to
dinner, he pays flat rate. When he buys new toys or tools, thats flat
rate.
Instead of plonking the man, strive to educate him.
I'm still trying to educate pjm, but I'll admit, its a slow, uphill
battle. :-)
| |
| CAVHBC 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
|
"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:0XNOf.142$s82.21474@news.uswest.net...
> <gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
> news:g76n02dm7pdah2dl5chn6f163utvve7mob@4ax.com...
>
> lol......the old "youre not worthy" argument is an easy cop-out, but it
> just doesnt cut it.
>
>
> TRANSLATION --> "i am a coward when called to task"
>
>
>
> youre a fool. "worthy enough to justify a flat rate" is your pitiful way
> to justify RIPPING OFF your customers. if it helps you sleep at
> night.....
Its ok Nate..I got called a hack for years for trying to get them to
understand that.
Still do.
Still make a fine living, doing as needed, charging what is right, and
undercutting the hell out of the hacks that think higher prices actually
fool the customer into thinking they are getting more for their money.
>
>
>
> _i_ ensure my own longevity by going behind hvac guys who THINK they know
> something about refrigeration. after fucking over million dollar racks
> they call us. here is a video of me at work. i doubt you can even
> recognize the components in the video.
> http://7slotgrille.com/multimedia/working.wmv
>
> _i_ ensure my longevity by providing excellent service at fair prices. i
> realize why T&M threatens you.
Time and materials scares the hell out of anyone that is charging $350 for a
condensor fan motor, when a company thats larger, has more employees driving
newer vans, is only charging $150 for the same one..
>
>
>
> such irony! you are selling services that your customers DO NOT NEED.
> you justify this to yourself by telling yourself that youre good enough
> that it makes it "ok". let me clue you in, up here flat rate would
> bankrupt you. NOBODY up here charges flat rates. you step in charging 3x
> as much as everybody else (from selling services that customers DONT need)
> and you wont have any customers.
>
>
>
> lol you ignorant fool.
> http://inlinediesel.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=127 thats a $40,000+ 2005
> dodge cummins 4x4 dually fully dressed bighorn edition. before that it
> was a 2001 cummins 4x4 http://inlinediesel.com/trucks/2gen/1/index.html
> and next it will be a 2007 cummins 4x4 dually. we also have an '04.5 4x4
> cummins (wifes truck, but use it to work construction), an '04 ford ranger
> 4x4, and an '02 f350 powerstroke 4x4 (lease).
Notice you left out the ones you went through here...LOL...he would have
shit.
>
>
>
> and your list is full if IGNORANCE. i am perfectly capable of making a
> good living by doing HONEST work.
>
>
>
> lol! once again you speak from your XXXXXXX because we do it every day.
> here is our most recent recruitment, from november -
> http://7slotgrille.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1036
>
>
>
>
> a bid covers work that is REQUIRED in order to complete the job. your
> flat rate is selling unnecessary services. i have no doubt that you can
> justify fucking your customers like that, its not uncommon.
>
>
>
> and im paying for exactly what i want, not additional crap that i dont
> need.
>
> for clarity, our company is primarily a refrigeration company. hvac,
> welding, and food service equipment is just addition services that we
> offer to our refrigeration customers.
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://InlineDiesel.com
> http://BighornRefrigeration.com
> http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
>
| |
| Bubba 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
| On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:49:30 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>"Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:zIKdnXWSzMdIo5bZnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>oh i get it, you sell unneeded services to justify your rates.
>
>
>
>i do a COMPLETE job. i just dont charge the customer for services THEY DONT
>NEED. if a system isnt cooling due to a siezed condensor fan and i replace
>the condensor fan, there is no need to check the entire system over unless
>youre trying to milk the job. check the basics while youre there certainly,
>but opening up the evap case to check the coil is unnecessary no matter how
>you try to justify it to yourself.
>
>
>
>if the system is dirty, yes. you don know that systems will give you
>symptoms of being dirty, right?
>
>
>
>if you cant diagnose dirty coils you have no business in the business.
>
>
>
>you cannot smokescreen with basic crap. if youre telling me that you also
>check ever duct joint on every service call then you are a rip-off artist,
>milking the job because you cant get enough customers to sustain through
>providing honest work.
>
>
>
>right and wrong. im T/M, and each job is done right and based upon what the
>customer NEEDS. i wish you had told me that you were flat rate so that i
>would have known up front that youre a scam artist who makes his living
>selling anything he can to milk the customer for more and more.
>
>
>
>flat rate means youre selling everything you can possibly sell whether the
>customer needs it or not. using your own analogy, its like selling the
>customer a new head because he has a warped valve. no wonder you check the
>superheat on every job. i hadnt reason to question your ethics (or lack of)
>beforehand.
>
>
>
>its about repair what is NEEDED and not selling a lot of services that the
>customer doesnt need just because they dont know the difference.
>
>
>
>not if it means ripping people off.
>
>
>
>lol....yeah youre doing them a real service by fucking them in the XXX with
>repairs they dont need!
Nate you really need to check into flate rate pricing before you bad
mouth it. Its obvious you havent used it at all. There are a whole lot
of references to flat rate pricing out there in this world.
Gasoline: Do you just fill up your tank without knowing what it costs
per gallon?
Do you buy groceries without prices on them?
When you go out to eat, dont you get a menu with prices on every item?
When you purchase clothing, dont you know the cost before you purchase
them?
When you buy a new car or truck do you know what it will cost before
you actually buy it?
Almost everything out there is Flat Rate Priced. Why you ask? Because
everyone wants to know what something is going to cost them BEFORE
they purchase it.
Ive seen many an old person have a fit wondering what the plumber is
going to charge them on time and material whilst Im there and already
gave them a price up front.
Bubba
| |
| Nathan W. Collier 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
| "CAVHBC" <biteme@fuckoff.com> wrote in message
news:P1OOf.98$xO6.898@eagle.america.net...
> Its ok Nate..I got called a hack for years for trying to get them to
> understand that.
> Still do.
> Still make a fine living, doing as needed, charging what is right, and
> undercutting the hell out of the hacks that think higher prices actually
> fool the customer into thinking they are getting more for their money.
yup. we had a union shop up here go to a flat rate. not only did i pick up
a lions share of their customers, i also got one of their better employees
after they started talking about laying off their help. they dropped the
flat rate and fired the service manager who imposed it. prior to there was
a lot of shop talk down at the parts houses about "everyone" going flat rate
(only way to "get away" with it is if everybody does it, and the know it).
we never again heard of anyone toying with the idea afterwards.
> Notice you left out the ones you went through here...LOL...he would have
> shit.
heh.....i do keep autoworkers working. :-)
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
| On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 03:38:29 GMT, Bubba <<ReMoVe likealake@iname.com>>
wrote:
>On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:49:30 -0700, "Nathan W. Collier"
><Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>
>Nate you really need to check into flate rate pricing before you bad
>mouth it.
Not exactly his strong point, that 'think before shooting off
mouth' stuff.
> Its obvious you havent used it at all. There are a whole lot
>of references to flat rate pricing out there in this world.
>Gasoline: Do you just fill up your tank without knowing what it costs
>per gallon?
>Do you buy groceries without prices on them?
>When you go out to eat, dont you get a menu with prices on every item?
>When you purchase clothing, dont you know the cost before you purchase
>them?
>When you buy a new car or truck do you know what it will cost before
>you actually buy it?
>Almost everything out there is Flat Rate Priced. Why you ask? Because
& | | |