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Trane HVAC Replacement
|
|
| terrysolomon@gmail.com 2006-03-04, 10:21 pm |
| I'm replacing the HVAC system (not including ductwork) in a house that
currently has the original 1973 model Friedrich units. There's 2
units, 1 upstairs, other is down.
I've decided to go with Trane, and based on the bids I've received, I'm
probably going to go with the XR14s and XV80 Furnaces.
Question is, how do I know that the furnace matches the condenser
properly? The Condensers I'm using will be 3 ton downstairs, and 2 ton
upstairs. Which BTU rating Furnaces would fit this config?
Thanks,
Terry
| |
| Oscar_Lives 2006-03-04, 10:21 pm |
|
<terrysolomon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141521531.239884.327140@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I'm replacing the HVAC system (not including ductwork) in a house that
> currently has the original 1973 model Friedrich units. There's 2
> units, 1 upstairs, other is down.
>
> I've decided to go with Trane, and based on the bids I've received, I'm
> probably going to go with the XR14s and XV80 Furnaces.
>
> Question is, how do I know that the furnace matches the condenser
> properly? The Condensers I'm using will be 3 ton downstairs, and 2 ton
> upstairs. Which BTU rating Furnaces would fit this config?
>
> Thanks,
> Terry
>
Ask your installer.
| |
| Bubba 2006-03-04, 10:21 pm |
| On 4 Mar 2006 17:18:51 -0800, terrysolomon@gmail.com wrote:
>I'm replacing the HVAC system (not including ductwork) in a house that
>currently has the original 1973 model Friedrich units. There's 2
>units, 1 upstairs, other is down.
>
>I've decided to go with Trane, and based on the bids I've received, I'm
>probably going to go with the XR14s and XV80 Furnaces.
>
>Question is, how do I know that the furnace matches the condenser
>properly? The Condensers I'm using will be 3 ton downstairs, and 2 ton
>upstairs. Which BTU rating Furnaces would fit this config?
>
>Thanks,
>Terry
Complete model numbers of the furnaces, condensers and cooling coils
would be a good start.
Bubba
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-04, 10:21 pm |
| On 4 Mar 2006 17:18:51 -0800, terrysolomon@gmail.com wrote:
>I'm replacing the HVAC system (not including ductwork) in a house that
alt.home.repair, not here
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| terrysolomon@gmail.com 2006-03-04, 10:21 pm |
| Thanks for the quick reply guys! Each of the bids I received were
different, even after the folks spent a lot of time measuring the house
and checking out the ducts/windows etc. This is why I'm confused, as
they bid different tonnage and furnace models. I want to find the
appropriate combination. Both companies are certified Trane reps, but
the bids were different. Here are the model numbers from the bid I
believe I'll go with.... but I don't know how to make sure the
furnaces fit the condensers, etc...... Any advice is appreciated. The
condenser units are XR14, Furnaces are XV80 (variable speed).
2TTR4036A - 3 ton condenser
TUD080R9V3K - furnace
2TTR4024A - 2 ton condenser
TUD060R9V3K - furnace
Neither of the bids specified a coil part number.
| |
| Oscar_Lives 2006-03-04, 11:21 pm |
|
<terrysolomon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141522555.403744.265870@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the quick reply guys! Each of the bids I received were
> different, even after the folks spent a lot of time measuring the house
> and checking out the ducts/windows etc. This is why I'm confused, as
> they bid different tonnage and furnace models. I want to find the
> appropriate combination. Both companies are certified Trane reps, but
> the bids were different. Here are the model numbers from the bid I
> believe I'll go with.... but I don't know how to make sure the
> furnaces fit the condensers, etc...... Any advice is appreciated. The
> condenser units are XR14, Furnaces are XV80 (variable speed).
>
> 2TTR4036A - 3 ton condenser
> TUD080R9V3K - furnace
>
> 2TTR4024A - 2 ton condenser
> TUD060R9V3K - furnace
>
> Neither of the bids specified a coil part number.
>
These should work OK. Did they quote you some new Trane digital
thermostats?
| |
| gofish@gonefishin.net 2006-03-04, 11:21 pm |
| On 4 Mar 2006 17:35:55 -0800, terrysolomon@gmail.com wrote:
>Thanks for the quick reply guys! Each of the bids I received were
>different, even after the folks spent a lot of time measuring the house
>and checking out the ducts/windows etc. This is why I'm confused, as
>they bid different tonnage and furnace models. I want to find the
>appropriate combination. Both companies are certified Trane reps, but
>the bids were different. Here are the model numbers from the bid I
>believe I'll go with.... but I don't know how to make sure the
>furnaces fit the condensers, etc...... Any advice is appreciated. The
>condenser units are XR14, Furnaces are XV80 (variable speed).
>
>2TTR4036A - 3 ton condenser
>TUD080R9V3K - furnace
>
>2TTR4024A - 2 ton condenser
>TUD060R9V3K - furnace
>
>Neither of the bids specified a coil part number.
the V3 signifies up to 3 tons of cooling. there's dip switches on the
circuit boards that allow adjustment of the airflow. Depending on
your location, you may or may not need the full btu output of the
furnaces, but no worries, as both are two stage in heat mode.
ask your installers for the ARI printout that shows the specific
efficiency for each system. You ARE getting a factory rebate,
correct? Extended factory warranty?
| |
| terrysolomon@gmail.com 2006-03-04, 11:21 pm |
| The bid that was higher said they throw in a "free" programmable
thermostat, but the other bid was lower.
I am getting some Austin Energy (local power company) rebates,
totalling around $1700. These rebates are due to my buying 14 seer
units and at the same time the hvac guys will repair ductwork (any
leakage), also bump up the ceiling insulation to R30, put on some solar
screens and do some weatherstripping throughout.
So the winning bid looks like the above units, with all the energy
efficiency upgrades for $10,200 minus $1700 in rebates from the local
energy company, so total cost is $8500.00.
They didn't say anything specifically about Trane rebates, and so far
I'm just planning to go with the standard warranty. They do 1 yr
service free, and I have to pay around $200 annually for the yearly (or
twice yearly) service.
Do you guys have a recommendation on a good thermostat upgrade? I
imagine I'll upgrade that myself after the installation is done, or buy
the unit on my own and pay the techs onsite to install it.
Thanks...........
| |
| terrysolomon@gmail.com 2006-03-04, 11:21 pm |
| ...........and about the furnaces, I understand your V3 comment, but
what is the difference between the 60 and 80? These two furnaces
(upstairs and down) are different BTU levels, and they correspond to
the 60/80 designation in the model number. I'm guessing since the
upstairs unit is 2 ton outside, then the furnace can be rated at a
lower BTU level than the one that works with the 3 ton downstairs
condenser.
| |
| Oscar_Lives 2006-03-05, 2:21 am |
|
<terrysolomon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141525774.427079.111360@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> The bid that was higher said they throw in a "free" programmable
> thermostat, but the other bid was lower.
>
> I am getting some Austin Energy (local power company) rebates,
> totalling around $1700. These rebates are due to my buying 14 seer
> units and at the same time the hvac guys will repair ductwork (any
> leakage), also bump up the ceiling insulation to R30, put on some solar
> screens and do some weatherstripping throughout.
>
> So the winning bid looks like the above units, with all the energy
> efficiency upgrades for $10,200 minus $1700 in rebates from the local
> energy company, so total cost is $8500.00.
>
> They didn't say anything specifically about Trane rebates, and so far
> I'm just planning to go with the standard warranty. They do 1 yr
> service free, and I have to pay around $200 annually for the yearly (or
> twice yearly) service.
>
> Do you guys have a recommendation on a good thermostat upgrade? I
> imagine I'll upgrade that myself after the installation is done, or buy
> the unit on my own and pay the techs onsite to install it.
> Thanks...........
>
Man, you need DIGITAL thermostats. The old ones won't work on the new
units.
Tis a shame that saving money costs so much....
| |
| gofish@gonefishin.net 2006-03-05, 4:21 am |
| On 4 Mar 2006 18:33:17 -0800, terrysolomon@gmail.com wrote:
>..........and about the furnaces, I understand your V3 comment, but
>what is the difference between the 60 and 80? These two furnaces
>(upstairs and down) are different BTU levels, and they correspond to
>the 60/80 designation in the model number. I'm guessing since the
>upstairs unit is 2 ton outside, then the furnace can be rated at a
>lower BTU level than the one that works with the 3 ton downstairs
>condenser.
60=60,000 btu input, 80=80,000 btu input. 1st stage on either furnace
= roughly 55% of full capacity.
hot air goes up, cold air goes down. think about it. the downstairs
furnace will probably heat the whole house.
A huge problem in southern climates is obtaining a furnace with
sufficient blower capacity for ac without going overboard on heat.
for instance if the heat load is 35,000 btu and the cooling load is
55,000 btu, the logical choice is an 80,000 input 2 stage furnace with
a 5 ton blower. second stage is never needed nor usually connected.
as for t-stats, some people like the Vision Pro simply for its ease of
use and fan circulation mode, which cycles the fan on roughly 30-40%
of the time.
ask your contractor to install the one of your choice and program it
for you. If I were you, I would certainly persue obtaining a 5-10 yr
P&L extended warranty from Trane. Spending 10k without insurance is
kinda stupid dontcha think?
| |
| Bubba 2006-03-05, 10:21 am |
| On 4 Mar 2006 17:35:55 -0800, terrysolomon@gmail.com wrote:
>Thanks for the quick reply guys! Each of the bids I received were
>different, even after the folks spent a lot of time measuring the house
>and checking out the ducts/windows etc. This is why I'm confused, as
>they bid different tonnage and furnace models. I want to find the
>appropriate combination. Both companies are certified Trane reps, but
>the bids were different. Here are the model numbers from the bid I
>believe I'll go with.... but I don't know how to make sure the
>furnaces fit the condensers, etc...... Any advice is appreciated. The
>condenser units are XR14, Furnaces are XV80 (variable speed).
>
>2TTR4036A - 3 ton condenser
>TUD080R9V3K - furnace
>
>2TTR4024A - 2 ton condenser
>TUD060R9V3K - furnace
>
>Neither of the bids specified a coil part number.
They way you can tell if the furnaces fit the condensers is to stack
the condensers on top of the furnaces. If there is no "overhang" then
they will work just fine.
Bubba
| |
| terrysolomon@gmail.com 2006-03-05, 11:21 am |
| Thanks guys, I'll get a digital programmable stat. As far as the
extended warranty, standard warranty comes with 10 yrs on the
compressor and 5 yrs on the other parts. If I wanted to upgrade to a
10 yr that covers everything including labor I'd have to pay $1200 more
now. I think that the odds of needed $1200 in repair work done on
these units in the next 10 years is not that high, maybe 50/50. Seems
like a reasonable risk to me to not get the extended warranty, then
roll with it if anything breaks later. Plus I'm short cash now,
considering we're spending a ton to renovate the house (including the
HVAC). I appreciate y'alls advice, and it looks like they're setting
me up with the right units from what I can tell. Thanks!
And yes it is a shame that saving cost so much! :-)
| |
| Noon-Air 2006-03-05, 12:21 pm |
|
<terrysolomon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141567164.935852.92110@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks guys, I'll get a digital programmable stat. As far as the
> extended warranty, standard warranty comes with 10 yrs on the
> compressor and 5 yrs on the other parts. If I wanted to upgrade to a
> 10 yr that covers everything including labor I'd have to pay $1200 more
> now. I think that the odds of needed $1200 in repair work done on
> these units in the next 10 years is not that high, maybe 50/50. Seems
> like a reasonable risk to me to not get the extended warranty, then
> roll with it if anything breaks later. Plus I'm short cash now,
> considering we're spending a ton to renovate the house (including the
> HVAC). I appreciate y'alls advice, and it looks like they're setting
> me up with the right units from what I can tell. Thanks!
>
> And yes it is a shame that saving cost so much! :-)
yup....you gotta spend money to save it
| |
| Murdentech 2006-03-05, 12:21 pm |
|
<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:h65l021k45nkd7vag6egivkgub2j7pouj5@4ax.com...
> On 4 Mar 2006 18:33:17 -0800, terrysolomon@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> 60=60,000 btu input, 80=80,000 btu input. 1st stage on either furnace
> = roughly 55% of full capacity.
>
> hot air goes up, cold air goes down. think about it. the downstairs
> furnace will probably heat the whole house.
>
> A huge problem in southern climates is obtaining a furnace with
> sufficient blower capacity for ac without going overboard on heat.
> for instance if the heat load is 35,000 btu and the cooling load is
> 55,000 btu, the logical choice is an 80,000 input 2 stage furnace with
> a 5 ton blower. second stage is never needed nor usually connected.
Seems to me that it would make sense to put in a HEAT PUMP in warmer
climates... wouldn't need much auxilliary heat, if any. Cost would be
comparable while efficiency would be at least 3 to 1.
| |
| terrysolomon@gmail.com 2006-03-05, 12:21 pm |
| Interesting point on the heat pump. None of the contractors have
presented this as an option. I'll ask about it.
| |
| Taylor Morrison 2006-03-05, 1:21 pm |
| ..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On 4 Mar 2006 17:18:51 -0800, terrysolomon@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> alt.home.repair, not here
Thank you, net cop. But no place better for HVAC posts than alt.HVAC.
Have a nice day!
| |
| RSCamaro 2006-03-05, 1:21 pm |
| On 5 Mar 2006 06:39:30 -0800, terrysolomon@gmail.com wrote:
>Thanks guys, I'll get a digital programmable stat. As far as the
>extended warranty, standard warranty comes with 10 yrs on the
>compressor and 5 yrs on the other parts. If I wanted to upgrade to a
>10 yr that covers everything including labor I'd have to pay $1200 more
>now. I think that the odds of needed $1200 in repair work done on
>these units in the next 10 years is not that high, maybe 50/50. Seems
>like a reasonable risk to me to not get the extended warranty, then
>roll with it if anything breaks later. Plus I'm short cash now,
>considering we're spending a ton to renovate the house (including the
>HVAC). I appreciate y'alls advice, and it looks like they're setting
>me up with the right units from what I can tell. Thanks!
>
>And yes it is a shame that saving cost so much! :-)
Just because the parts will be replaced under warranty doesn't mean
that the labor is free. One compressor, one condenser fan, and one
control board (which are normal failure items) will cover that initial
$1,200 easily over the next ten years. How lucky do you feel?
...Ron
--
68'RS Camaro
88'Formula
00'GT Mustang
| |
| terrysolomon@gmail.com 2006-03-05, 2:21 pm |
| Well, I like to visit Vegas often.
| |
|
|
|
| On 5 Mar 2006 06:39:30 -0800, terrysolomon@gmail.com wrote:
>Thanks guys, I'll get a digital programmable stat. As far as the
>extended warranty, standard warranty comes with 10 yrs on the
>compressor and 5 yrs on the other parts. If I wanted to upgrade to a
>10 yr that covers everything including labor I'd have to pay $1200 more
>now. I think that the odds of needed $1200 in repair work done on
>these units in the next 10 years is not that high, maybe 50/50. Seems
>like a reasonable risk to me to not get the extended warranty, then
>roll with it if anything breaks later. Plus I'm short cash now,
>considering we're spending a ton to renovate the house (including the
>HVAC). I appreciate y'alls advice, and it looks like they're setting
>me up with the right units from what I can tell. Thanks!
>
>And yes it is a shame that saving cost so much! :-)
I hate to tell you but you have the bad ends of the odds on that deal.
Right now, Id charge that to change out a compressor in warranty.
Remember, When a compressor is changed under warranty, you get charged
shipping both ways on the old and new compressor, ALL labor,
Refrigerant recovery, New refrigerant, Brazing, Nitrogen, Evacuation,
New filter drier, New electrical contactor, New Run Capacitor, New
start capacitor and start relay (if used) along with possible misc.,
charges. What do you think that R-22 refrigerant is going to cost you
in 2010 and beyond. What do you think the cost of labor is going to be
in 5 or 10 years?
Yup, you just might want to re-think that decision. It could be VERY
costly.
Bubba
| |
| CAVHBC 2006-03-05, 8:21 pm |
|
<terrysolomon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141567164.935852.92110@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks guys, I'll get a digital programmable stat. As far as the
> extended warranty, standard warranty comes with 10 yrs on the
> compressor and 5 yrs on the other parts. If I wanted to upgrade to a
> 10 yr that covers everything including labor I'd have to pay $1200 more
> now. I think that the odds of needed $1200 in repair work done on
> these units in the next 10 years is not that high, maybe 50/50.
Wrong.
SO wrong....
Just replaced a Trane, that was 5 years old, under warranty, and they got
TIRED of the Trane guys fuckin em..
Oh..they bought the 10 year parts and LABOR warranty too....
> Seems
> like a reasonable risk to me to not get the extended warranty, then
> roll with it if anything breaks later. Plus I'm short cash now,
> considering we're spending a ton to renovate the house (including the
> HVAC). I appreciate y'alls advice, and it looks like they're setting
> me up with the right units from what I can tell. Thanks!
>
> And yes it is a shame that saving cost so much! :-)
>
| |
| gofish@gonefishin.net 2006-03-05, 11:21 pm |
| On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:31:32 GMT, "Murdentech" <j. murden @ insight
bb.com> wrote:
>
><gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
>news:h65l021k45nkd7vag6egivkgub2j7pouj5@4ax.com...
>
>Seems to me that it would make sense to put in a HEAT PUMP in warmer
>climates... wouldn't need much auxilliary heat, if any. Cost would be
>comparable while efficiency would be at least 3 to 1.
>
In SoCal, we burn natural gas to produce electricity, much the same
for Fla I hear. I pay up to $0.25 per KW, what do you pay? Here, Nat
gas is far far cheaper to heat with than electricity. I'll bet Texas
has tons of natural gas and probably burns it also to produce
electricity.
| |
| terrysolomon@gmail.com 2006-03-05, 11:21 pm |
| Any company that sells extended warranties makes a profit on that
business. If it was highly likely that I'd need thousands of dollars
in AC repair in the next 10 years, then the warranty cost would be much
more. Plus "you can't stop a trane" right? Ha
| |
| terrysolomon@gmail.com 2006-03-05, 11:21 pm |
| I gotta make sure and write all this down.....
| |
| gofish@gonefishin.net 2006-03-05, 11:21 pm |
| On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:52:28 -0500, "CAVHBC" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
wrote:
>
><terrysolomon@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1141567164.935852.92110@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
>
>Wrong.
>SO wrong....
>
>Just replaced a Trane, that was 5 years old, under warranty, and they got
>TIRED of the Trane guys fuckin em..
>Oh..they bought the 10 year parts and LABOR warranty too....
>
CB, it is disingenuous to remotely think that ALL Trane dealers are
like the one you encountered.
A York/Coleman dealer here is a hack. I hear you sell York also, does
that make you a hack??
>
>
| |
| CAVHBC 2006-03-05, 11:21 pm |
|
<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:se9n02lnukp53mg80g4md0lbnfnsue8llt@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:52:28 -0500, "CAVHBC" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> CB, it is disingenuous to remotely think that ALL Trane dealers are
> like the one you encountered.
>
> A York/Coleman dealer here is a hack. I hear you sell York also, does
> that make you a hack??
The fact that you think Paul is an XXX, does that make you an XXX in
everyones eyes?
If you are talking about Nate...hes no more a hack than Steve Noon is...but
then, I dont agree with everything Noon writes everytime either.
Does that make Noon a hack?
While it might be, as you say, wrong to suggest that all Trane dealers are
hacks, its also fucking NUTS to spend 10 grand on a system that isnt worth
near that..so that would lead us all to believe that all homeowners are
either idiots, or all HVAC guys that can get that much are crooks.
Boy this can go on and on and on....cant it?
>
>
>
| |
| gofish@gonefishin.net 2006-03-05, 11:21 pm |
| On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:04:10 GMT, Bubba <<ReMoVe likealake@iname.com>>
wrote:
>On 5 Mar 2006 06:39:30 -0800, terrysolomon@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>I hate to tell you but you have the bad ends of the odds on that deal.
>Right now, Id charge that to change out a compressor in warranty.
>Remember, When a compressor is changed under warranty, you get charged
>shipping both ways on the old and new compressor, ALL labor,
>Refrigerant recovery, New refrigerant, Brazing, Nitrogen, Evacuation,
>New filter drier, New electrical contactor, New Run Capacitor, New
>start capacitor and start relay (if used) along with possible misc.,
>charges. What do you think that R-22 refrigerant is going to cost you
>in 2010 and beyond. What do you think the cost of labor is going to be
>in 5 or 10 years?
>Yup, you just might want to re-think that decision. It could be VERY
>costly.
>Bubba
Bubba, I hate to burst your bubble here, but the posted model numbers
area r410a systems. Besides, Trane currently does not make an r22 14
seer system. But yeah, $1200 for misc parts & labor is entierly
realistic.
OP: as a rule, most contractors will not offer the extended warranty,
because WE know the manufacturer will never re-imburse us for our
ACTUAL labor & misc parts costs, therefore we take it in the shorts on
extended warranty claims. We make more money by NOT selling you an
extended warranty.
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
| On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:11:38 -0500, "CAVHBC" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
wrote:
>
><gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
>news:se9n02lnukp53mg80g4md0lbnfnsue8llt@4ax.com...
>
>The fact that you think Paul is an XXX, does that make you an XXX in
>everyones eyes?
Yep :-)
>If you are talking about Nate...hes no more a hack than Steve Noon is...but
Well, he's sure got a big fucking mouth for some punk newbie
XXXXXXX who's been here a week, pulling SWAG's out of his XXX.
>then, I dont agree with everything Noon writes everytime either.
>Does that make Noon a hack?
NO, he did it all by himself, with Weasel's advice.
>
>While it might be, as you say, wrong to suggest that all Trane dealers are
>hacks, its also fucking NUTS to spend 10 grand on a system that isnt worth
>near that..so that would lead us all to believe that all homeowners are
>either idiots, or all HVAC guys that can get that much are crooks.
>
>Boy this can go on and on and on....cant it?
And it usually does.
>
>
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| CAVHBC 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
|
<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:3ban0210om8rjs3ucdfvdb0j9phjaub2b5@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:11:38 -0500, "CAVHBC" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Yep :-)
ooooookay...
>
>
> Well, he's sure got a big fucking mouth for some punk newbie
> XXXXXXX who's been here a week, pulling SWAG's out of his XXX.
Been HERE in this NG for a lot longer than a week man...
Just aint posted much.
And you and I both know, hes from NC too, but he fucked up and moved up to
bighorn country...its the lack of air thats doing ti to him..LO
>
>
> NO, he did it all by himself, with Weasel's advice.
>
>
> And it usually does.
>
>
> --
>
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| Bubba 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
| On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 03:13:28 GMT, gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:04:10 GMT, Bubba <<ReMoVe likealake@iname.com>>
>wrote:
>
>
>Bubba, I hate to burst your bubble here, but the posted model numbers
>area r410a systems. Besides, Trane currently does not make an r22 14
>seer system. But yeah, $1200 for misc parts & labor is entierly
>realistic.
>
>OP: as a rule, most contractors will not offer the extended warranty,
>because WE know the manufacturer will never re-imburse us for our
>ACTUAL labor & misc parts costs, therefore we take it in the shorts on
>extended warranty claims. We make more money by NOT selling you an
>extended warranty.
Well, your not really bursting a bubble for me. I really didnt even
look at the model numbers even though I should have. Quite honestly,
Ive been dealing with American Standard at REMichel here. My RE Michel
salesman quit about 6 months ago and I haven heard a word from them
since. Oh well, there loss.
Bubba
| |
| Ralph Mowery 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
|
<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:7n9n021s1psptplsracq0npmmdf2u92e02@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:04:10 GMT, Bubba <<ReMoVe likealake@iname.com>>
> wrote:
>
>Bubba
>
> Bubba, I hate to burst your bubble here, but the posted model numbers
> area r410a systems. Besides, Trane currently does not make an r22 14
> seer system. But yeah, $1200 for misc parts & labor is entierly
> realistic.
>
>
They may not make one but I am having one installed this week. Look here
and tell me if they quit making them.
http://www.trane.com/residential/pr...umps/xl14i.aspx
| |
| gofish@gonefishin.net 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
| On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:11:38 -0500, "CAVHBC" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
wrote:
>
><gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
>news:se9n02lnukp53mg80g4md0lbnfnsue8llt@4ax.com...
>
>The fact that you think Paul is an XXX, does that make you an XXX in
>everyones eyes?
>
>If you are talking about Nate...hes no more a hack than Steve Noon is...but
>then, I dont agree with everything Noon writes everytime either.
>Does that make Noon a hack?
>
>While it might be, as you say, wrong to suggest that all Trane dealers are
>hacks, its also fucking NUTS to spend 10 grand on a system that isnt worth
>near that..so that would lead us all to believe that all homeowners are
>either idiots, or all HVAC guys that can get that much are crooks.
>
>Boy this can go on and on and on....cant it?
Steve, this thread is on a homeowner asking about replacement of TWO
systems using 14 seer Trane equipment for approx $10,000. Is one
Trane VS 14 seer system worth 5k? Two for 10k? I would think so,
even if they were Rheems, Yorks, or Carriers, ok?
Can you do it cheaper? You probably can. Should everybody do it as
cheap as you?
Are you going to be at the national ACCA conference in San Jose the
end of the month? Cant afford it? Not your cup of tea? Too busy?
Are you and your crew NCI certified Steve?
I tend to think the people who will be there have learned how to add
value to their businesses, and sell value to their customers instead
of price. Its not about how cheap you can do something, its how much
value you add to the sale.
I for one could give a rats fucking XXX what anybody thinks of me.
Either they read my posts or they dont, personally, I couldnt care
less.
Nate, I know nothing about. From what I've read, he strikes me as
somewhat knowledable in his field, with plenty of room for growth.
Personal, professional or business growth is entirely up to him
though.
For you. its perfectly ok for paul to post anything fucking thing off
topic he wants, and perfectly ok with you for him to tell other
posters to take their hvac related questions to alt.home.repair.
For me, he's a fucking hypocrite, aka XXXXXXX. you and i merely have
a difference of opinions on that topic.
If paul were ank kind of MAN, he would fight his own battles, rather
than hide behind you.
| |
| CAVHBC 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
|
"Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4lOOf.7506$S25.4003@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> <gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
> news:7n9n021s1psptplsracq0npmmdf2u92e02@4ax.com...
> They may not make one but I am having one installed this week. Look here
> and tell me if they quit making them.
>
> http://www.trane.com/residential/pr...umps/xl14i.aspx
>
>
>
Hey Ralphy Boy...they quit making them.
You are getting a leftover.
Hope its priced right...like..about $2500 installed...oh...wait..thats a 5
tonner you getting?
| |
| PrecisionMechanical 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
|
"Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4lOOf.7506$S25.4003@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> <gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
> news:7n9n021s1psptplsracq0npmmdf2u92e02@4ax.com...
> They may not make one but I am having one installed this week. Look here
> and tell me if they quit making them.
>
> http://www.trane.com/residential/pr...umps/xl14i.aspx
>
Well, I'd almost bet that what you'll actually be gettin is a 13
seer.......at the last moment you'll be told that "there's no 14 seer r22
units available at the wharehouse"...
--
SVL
| |
| CAVHBC 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
|
<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:jlan02t5vqgnbvupagced2bo7hjl66b2ta@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:11:38 -0500, "CAVHBC" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Steve, this thread is on a homeowner asking about replacement of TWO
> systems using 14 seer Trane equipment for approx $10,000. Is one
> Trane VS 14 seer system worth 5k? Two for 10k? I would think so,
> even if they were Rheems, Yorks, or Carriers, ok?
Then you are a fool.
>
> Can you do it cheaper? You probably can. Should everybody do it as
> cheap as you?
Damn right I can, and make a killing doing it...but then, you know that, so
stop making it sound like you added value to a freaking 40 year old
design...(trane that is.)
>
> Are you going to be at the national ACCA conference in San Jose the
> end of the month?
Nope
> Cant afford it?
Sure can...just got back from Palm Springs, or did you miss that one?
> Not your cup of tea?
What if?
> Too busy?
You are not?
> Are you and your crew NCI certified Steve?
Are you?
NATE? Oh..isnt THAT ironic?
>
> I tend to think the people who will be there have learned how to add
> value to their businesses, and sell value to their customers instead
> of price. Its not about how cheap you can do something, its how much
> value you add to the sale.
You are right..but then, I doubt anyone there defines value as I would.
id define most of you as fucking crooks tho...value...my XXX...you guys are
looking for a way to make ONE install a week work.
>
> I for one could give a rats fucking XXX what anybody thinks of me.
> Either they read my posts or they dont, personally, I couldnt care
> less.
So...that line was for WHAT reason?
>
> Nate, I know nothing about. From what I've read, he strikes me as
> somewhat knowledable in his field, with plenty of room for growth.
> Personal, professional or business growth is entirely up to him
> though.
And if hes making over 100K now, doing as he does, that means what to you?
that hes leaving another 100K on the table?
How do you know this?
>
> For you. its perfectly ok for paul to post anything fucking thing off
> topic he wants, and perfectly ok with you for him to tell other
> posters to take their hvac related questions to alt.home.repair.
> For me, he's a fucking hypocrite, aka XXXXXXX. you and i merely have
> a difference of opinions on that topic.
Umm...actually no....I dont think we differ that much...difference is, I
dont care what YOU post either.
>
> If paul were ank kind of MAN, he would fight his own battles, rather
> than hide behind you.
Hide behind me?
Paul, you hypocrytical XXXXX, get out here and fight your own
battle.....(didnt know anyone else was fighting it for him)
| |
| terrysolomon@gmail.com 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
| Wow guys, maybe I'll just buy a box fan and open the windows. Have fun
with your ego festival.
| |
| CAVHBC 2006-03-06, 12:21 am |
|
<terrysolomon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141618009.186357.12670@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Wow guys, maybe I'll just buy a box fan and open the windows. Have fun
> with your ego festival.
>
You do that...
Dont let the fucking door hit you on the way out.
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-06, 1:21 am |
| On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:07:53 -0500, "CAVHBC" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
wrote:
>
><terrysolomon@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1141618009.186357.12670@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
>You do that...
>Dont let the fucking door hit you on the way out.
>
Prsonally, I like it better when the DO let it hit them on the
way out .
I think I have those spikes just below the doorknob dialed
pretty good now.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com 2006-03-06, 1:21 am |
| On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:01:25 -0500, "CAVHBC" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
wrote:
>
><gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
>news:jlan02t5vqgnbvupagced2bo7hjl66b2ta@4ax.com...
>
>Then you are a fool.
>
>
>
>
>Damn right I can, and make a killing doing it...but then, you know that, so
>stop making it sound like you added value to a freaking 40 year old
>design...(trane that is.)
>
>
>
>Nope
>
>Sure can...just got back from Palm Springs, or did you miss that one?
>
>
>
>What if?
>
>
>You are not?
>
>
>Are you?
>NATE? Oh..isnt THAT ironic?
>
>
>
>
>You are right..but then, I doubt anyone there defines value as I would.
>id define most of you as fucking crooks tho...value...my XXX...you guys are
>looking for a way to make ONE install a week work.
>
>
>
>So...that line was for WHAT reason?
>
>
>
>And if hes making over 100K now, doing as he does, that means what to you?
>that hes leaving another 100K on the table?
>How do you know this?
>
>
>Umm...actually no....I dont think we differ that much...difference is, I
>dont care what YOU post either.
>
>
>Hide behind me?
>
>Paul, you hypocrytical XXXXX, get out here and fight your own
>battle.....(didnt know anyone else was fighting it for him)
>
Sorry ;-)
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
| gofish@gonefishin.net 2006-03-06, 2:21 am |
| On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 03:51:28 GMT, "Ralph Mowery"
<rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
><gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
>news:7n9n021s1psptplsracq0npmmdf2u92e02@4ax.com...
>They may not make one but I am having one installed this week. Look here
>and tell me if they quit making them.
>
>http://www.trane.com/residential/pr...umps/xl14i.aspx
>
>
Forget XL14i- look at the actual model number on YOUR condenser.
If the model number starts with a 2, its r22. If it starts with a 4,
its r410a. If its a 2, its last years model. You do the math. Get
the ARI matchup seer rating from the installing company. Thats where
ARI publishes the actual seer ratings of matching coils, condensers &
air handlers. If its not 13 seer min, bend over.
| |
| Murdentech 2006-03-06, 11:21 am |
|
<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:mv8n02tj4s1gfom6gfm3oa6sanr52ofho9@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:31:32 GMT, "Murdentech" <j. murden @ insight
> bb.com> wrote:
>
>
> In SoCal, we burn natural gas to produce electricity, much the same
> for Fla I hear. I pay up to $0.25 per KW, what do you pay? Here, Nat
> gas is far far cheaper to heat with than electricity. I'll bet Texas
> has tons of natural gas and probably burns it also to produce
> electricity.
Good point. 25 cents per KWH is a lot !
Here in Northern Kentucky we pay $0.066 per KWH. Yes, only 6.6 cents per
KWH.
Natural gas has gone to $1.50 per therm. Five years ago we were only paying
$0.70 per therm for gas.
I recently switched to an electric water heater and put in a heat pump to
augment the gas boiler.
Our projected electric increase will take electric to $0.072 per KWH. Once
Duke Energy completes taking over Cinergy... who knows what the rates will
be.
We mostly burn coal for electricity. There are natural gas peaking stations
for high peak summer usage. Many of the local hospitals, university of
Cincinnati and other institutional power plants have switched from coal to
natural gas in the last decade.
Jeff Murden
| |
| Bob Pietrangelo 2006-03-08, 8:21 am |
| Trane doesn't produce their own ECM2 motors. Trane doesn't produce power
surges to the electronics. You are an idiot if you don't get the
extendended warranty. We add it into every job regardless. it is part of
our price. You are investing into these systems obviuosly that were not the
cheapest. It is not like you are buying an extended warranty on an
electronic device from Best Buy where the extendedn warranty is 75% the cost
of the item.
--
Bob Pietrangelo
bobp3@comcast.net
bob@comfort-solution.biz
www.comfort-solution.biz
On Time or Your Service Call is FREE
Preventive Maintenance Specialist
<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:se9n02lnukp53mg80g4md0lbnfnsue8llt@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:52:28 -0500, "CAVHBC" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> CB, it is disingenuous to remotely think that ALL Trane dealers are
> like the one you encountered.
>
> A York/Coleman dealer here is a hack. I hear you sell York also, does
> that make you a hack??
>
>
>
| |
| Bob Pietrangelo 2006-03-08, 9:21 am |
|
> Bubba, I hate to burst your bubble here, but the posted model numbers
> area r410a systems. Besides, Trane currently does not make an r22 14
4TTX2036 or any other tonnage combination of numbers! psssssss R22
>
> OP: as a rule, most contractors will not offer the extended warranty,
Some just include it, and not offer it (value to the homeowner)
> because WE know the manufacturer will never re-imburse us for our
> ACTUAL labor & misc parts costs, therefore we take it in the shorts on
> extended warranty claims. We make more money by NOT selling you an
> extended warranty.
I get mark-up plus my going rate from Trane. Not my Flat Rate but still
covers overhead, and keeps the customer happy. Starts at day 31!
| |
| gofish@gonefishin.net 2006-03-08, 11:21 am |
| On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:15:47 -0500, "Bob Pietrangelo"
<bobp3@comcast.net> wrote:
>Trane doesn't produce their own ECM2 motors. Trane doesn't produce power
>surges to the electronics. You are an idiot if you don't get the
>extendended warranty. We add it into every job regardless. it is part of
>our price. You are investing into these systems obviuosly that were not the
>cheapest. It is not like you are buying an extended warranty on an
>electronic device from Best Buy where the extendedn warranty is 75% the cost
>of the item.
Bob, let me get this straight....you add in the cost of the 10 yr P
& L warranty to every install? I myself have been known to on some
jobs, but not all.
| |
| Cooltemp Industries 2006-03-08, 12:21 pm |
|
Bob Pietrangelo wrote:
> I get mark-up plus my going rate from Trane. Not my Flat Rate but still
> covers overhead, and keeps the customer happy. Starts at day 31!
Hey Bob, how long have you been a Trane dealer?
Do you find their products to be a cut above the rest?
If so, can you give specifics?
Some guys swear by them, but I tend to think of most manufacturers as
being pretty much equal, all with strong and weak points.
What's your take on them?
| |
| gofish@gonefishin.net 2006-03-09, 12:21 am |
| On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:43:33 -0500, Cooltemp Industries
<gbroderick@sunlife.com> wrote:
>
>
>Bob Pietrangelo wrote:
>
>
>Hey Bob, how long have you been a Trane dealer?
>Do you find their products to be a cut above the rest?
>If so, can you give specifics?
>Some guys swear by them, but I tend to think of most manufacturers as
>being pretty much equal, all with strong and weak points.
>What's your take on them?
I'll let Bob speak for himself, but I've been installing Trane
products for 12 yrs or so, along with Carrier, Bryant and Rheem,
primarily commercial units.
Which of the four takes the time and effort to bake a powder coat
finish on the lowly SCREWS they use to assemble their product?
That alone would tell you they are either A) insane, or B) a cut
above the rest.
Which one of the four consistantly uses a thicker guage steel for
their cabinets?
Of which of the four, can you order a unit that incorporates Hinges on
their blower, filter and compressor compartment access doors? No tool
access is wonderful.
Which of the four have a reversible drain pan, exiting either side of
the unit?
Which one of the four manufactures their own compressors?
Their own coils?
Tell me you've never seen the cheesy 'factory glue on insulation' that
unglues itself within the first year. That manufacturer recognizes it
is sooo bad, they include two pieces of metal on the blower & filter
access doors that supposedly hold the insulation in place after it
unglues itself. Yeah right.
Tell me you've never seen the plastic condenser fan guards on
commercial package units, nor the entire bottom of the unit made out
of plastic. The cheesy roof curb for that particular unit has a 1/2"
wide flange on top that supports the weight of the unit. A 1" flange
would cost too much, you know. Filter access, non-existant. Or
bizarre, bastard sized filters
How about the way that manufacturer crams all of the controls into one
tiny corner of the control compartment. You have to pull the
transformer to access the contactor or circuit board. A penny saved
is a penny earned, you know.
How do you like the way one manufacturer has all the headers, return
bends and distributor tubes for the Evaporater located in the
condenser compartment?? I see those exposed portions of the evap
circuit sweat so much they've rusted out the galvanized steel bottoms
of the compressor compartment, and the units are less than 10 yrs old.
Not to mention efficiency losses.
IMO, I would say on the resi side most all maunfacturers are getting
to be pretty much the same. Its on the commercial side that you'll
notice the bigger differences...
| |
| Bob Pietrangelo 2006-03-15, 8:21 pm |
| Since 1996, I sold Carrier for 1 year. Will only sell Trane, and when the
situation calls for it Rheem/Ruud. Landlords and Real Estate Transactions
--
Bob Pietrangelo
bobp3@comcast.net
bob@comfort-solution.biz
www.comfort-solution.biz
On Time or Your Service Call is FREE
Preventive Maintenance Specialist
"Cooltemp Industries" <gbroderick@sunlife.com> wrote in message
news:440EFBA5.603@sunlife.com...
>
>
> Bob Pietrangelo wrote:
>
>
> Hey Bob, how long have you been a Trane dealer?
> Do you find their products to be a cut above the rest?
> If so, can you give specifics?
> Some guys swear by them, but I tend to think of most manufacturers as
> being pretty much equal, all with strong and weak points.
> What's your take on them?
>
| |
| Bob Pietrangelo 2006-03-15, 8:21 pm |
|
<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:qist02te9mvd09j6fm81s8h7oljcon66al@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:15:47 -0500, "Bob Pietrangelo"
> <bobp3@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Bob, let me get this straight....you add in the cost of the 10 yr P
> & L warranty to every install? I myself have been known to on some
> jobs, but not all.
Every job we sell, resi or comm, gets a Ten Year P&L, and a lifetime
warranty on incidentals. Our only requirement is that we perform the
maintenance twice a year or it voids the warranty. (supposedly). If we
don't get the Warranty from Trane we get it from Datacor. They cover
boilers, any HVAC device, including circs, zoning, everything.
|
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