Heating and air conditioning - Whats wrong with this picture?

Author

Whats wrong with this picture?

aka-SBM

2006-04-21, 3:21 am

Got a call today...nephew of a homeowner wanted me to go look at a brand
spankin new Ruud unit installed on their home in Nov.
Propane bill hasnt been under $550 a month since..worried about it, since
hes got a home 4X as large and his has been under $200 each month.
After explaining contruction types, and temp settings, etc..we go look at
it.

Ready?

3 ton, 100K Ruud pac, installed on a 14X70 mobile home.
Duct...no...duct..they had replaced the trunk line with individual take offs
and flex...of course, 25 feet of flex in ANY direction, even if it only
needed 4 feet...
They were nice enough to leave the old T87F on the wall...off level.

I asked what they paid for this nightmare..figuring it was a fly by night
outfit out to grab a quick grand off these elderly folks..

Siting down?

$6500.00

Now...ask if it was even converted to propane...

No wonder folks look at the legitimate guys like rip off artists...and yes
Paul, I got the name of the outfit that did it. Ralieghs gonna love this
one.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-04-21, 10:21 am

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 01:59:40 -0400, "aka-SBM" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
wrote:

>Got a call today...nephew of a homeowner wanted me to go look at a brand
>spankin new Ruud unit installed on their home in Nov.
>Propane bill hasnt been under $550 a month since..worried about it, since
>
>Now...ask if it was even converted to propane...
>
>No wonder folks look at the legitimate guys like rip off artists...and yes
>Paul, I got the name of the outfit that did it. Ralieghs gonna love this
>one.

At first, I thought it was going to turn out to be like one I
saw - some new RTU's, huge propane bill. Turns out the installer got
a wire crossed so that the heat ran 24 / 7 regardless. Then of
course the AC ran with it trying to compensate .......

--
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gofish@gonefishin.net

2006-04-21, 11:21 am

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 01:59:40 -0400, "aka-SBM" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
wrote:

>Got a call today...nephew of a homeowner wanted me to go look at a brand
>spankin new Ruud unit installed on their home in Nov.
>Propane bill hasnt been under $550 a month since..worried about it, since
>hes got a home 4X as large and his has been under $200 each month.
>After explaining contruction types, and temp settings, etc..we go look at
>it.
>
>Ready?
>
>3 ton, 100K Ruud pac, installed on a 14X70 mobile home.
>Duct...no...duct..they had replaced the trunk line with individual take offs
>and flex...of course, 25 feet of flex in ANY direction, even if it only
>needed 4 feet...
>They were nice enough to leave the old T87F on the wall...off level.
>
>I asked what they paid for this nightmare..figuring it was a fly by night
>outfit out to grab a quick grand off these elderly folks..
>
>Siting down?
>
>$6500.00
>
>Now...ask if it was even converted to propane...
>
>No wonder folks look at the legitimate guys like rip off artists...and yes
>Paul, I got the name of the outfit that did it. Ralieghs gonna love this
>one.
>

whats wrong is that there is a huge number of licensed and un-licensed
ac contractors, including plumbing & drain cleaning companies that
are absolutely clueless when it comes to duct work, required air flow
and total ESP.

also gotta wonder why said homeowner didnt get at least 2 other bids,
including one from you.

gofish@gonefishin.net

2006-04-21, 10:21 pm

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 01:59:40 -0400, "aka-SBM" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
wrote:

>Got a call today...nephew of a homeowner wanted me to go look at a brand
>spankin new Ruud unit installed on their home in Nov.
>Propane bill hasnt been under $550 a month since..worried about it, since
>hes got a home 4X as large and his has been under $200 each month.
>After explaining contruction types, and temp settings, etc..we go look at
>it.
>
>Ready?
>
>3 ton, 100K Ruud pac, installed on a 14X70 mobile home.
>Duct...no...duct..they had replaced the trunk line with individual take offs
>and flex...of course, 25 feet of flex in ANY direction, even if it only
>needed 4 feet...
>They were nice enough to leave the old T87F on the wall...off level.
>
>I asked what they paid for this nightmare..figuring it was a fly by night
>outfit out to grab a quick grand off these elderly folks..
>
>Siting down?
>
>$6500.00
>
>Now...ask if it was even converted to propane...
>
>No wonder folks look at the legitimate guys like rip off artists...and yes
>Paul, I got the name of the outfit that did it. Ralieghs gonna love this
>one.
>

heh I saw one today thats got yours beat......a 5 ton rheem gas
pack........with 4 six inch supplies and one 12 inch return. SA & RA
openings down thru the roof are 13 x 13, bare metal.

aka-SBM

2006-04-22, 2:21 am

<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:uglh4252fsqgq1tdv5fkalm4s3i2cant3p@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 01:59:40 -0400, "aka-SBM" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> whats wrong is that there is a huge number of licensed and un-licensed
> ac contractors, including plumbing & drain cleaning companies that
> are absolutely clueless when it comes to duct work, required air flow
> and total ESP.
>
> also gotta wonder why said homeowner didnt get at least 2 other bids,
> including one from you.

It was one of those: Honey..its cold.
Fine..call Central EXXXXXX in Thomasville...(heh)

They bullnosed them into getting one right then...no second bid..no nothing.
We have it, and if you dont do it now, we wont have it and it will be 3
weeks bullshit.
Got an inspector out there today..its about to get nasty.
They have my bid now to make it right, in case the other
company....lol...wont make it right.....
yea..now they are really mad. They have the manual d, and j, and t in
hand..they can go heat pump, gas/electric or whatever they want now.
Plus..even if I dont get to fix it, Im gonna inspect it...and Im gonna make
those lame XXX fucks clean it up...the rain shield they made to connect the
unit to the home...the joints..nothing but clear silicone, and it looks like
they cut the tube off, and just smeared it onj..Im gonna hve pics of this
one.

gofish@gonefishin.net

2006-04-22, 2:21 am

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 00:23:53 -0400, "aka-SBM" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
wrote:

>
><gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
>news:uglh4252fsqgq1tdv5fkalm4s3i2cant3p@4ax.com...
>
>It was one of those: Honey..its cold.
>Fine..call Central EXXXXXX in Thomasville...(heh)
>
>They bullnosed them into getting one right then...no second bid..no nothing.
>We have it, and if you dont do it now, we wont have it and it will be 3
>weeks bullshit.
>Got an inspector out there today..its about to get nasty.
>They have my bid now to make it right, in case the other
>company....lol...wont make it right.....
>yea..now they are really mad. They have the manual d, and j, and t in
>hand..they can go heat pump, gas/electric or whatever they want now.
>Plus..even if I dont get to fix it, Im gonna inspect it...and Im gonna make
>those lame XXX fucks clean it up...the rain shield they made to connect the
>unit to the home...the joints..nothing but clear silicone, and it looks like
>they cut the tube off, and just smeared it onj..Im gonna hve pics of this
>one.
>
>

just curious, whats a rain shield? Does NC building codes stipulate a
rain shield for split sys condensers? Attached to the house and
shielding the condenser disch from rain?

I know your area gets freezing rain on occasion, is that what its for?
Are they reqd for condensers 3-4 feet from the house?

Noon-Air

2006-04-22, 9:21 am

<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:c4ej42lieel8miejlqjmdaluhjqagrnc7k@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 00:23:53 -0400, "aka-SBM" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> just curious, whats a rain shield? Does NC building codes stipulate a
> rain shield for split sys condensers? Attached to the house and
> shielding the condenser disch from rain?
>
> I know your area gets freezing rain on occasion, is that what its for?
> Are they reqd for condensers 3-4 feet from the house?

Ummm.... GF, its a package unit, and the rain shield he's talking about,
around here is refered to as a "dog house"...its a cover (ususally tin)that
goes between the unit and the house to protect the ducts and such.

Cooltemp Industries

2006-04-22, 9:21 am

gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:

> whats wrong is that there is a huge number of licensed and un-licensed
> ac contractors, including plumbing & drain cleaning companies that
> are absolutely clueless....

Aww yes....but you're the great defender of the clueless,
remember...take that 357 and shoot yourself in the head. ROTFLMAO!!
It appears you can't decide who you should defend. Ask Dido if he's done
any work on trailers lately.
Careful you don't fall off your pedestal!! XXXXXXX.

Cooltemp Industries

2006-04-22, 9:21 am

gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:

> heh I saw one today thats got yours beat......a 5 ton rheem gas
> pack........with 4 six inch supplies and one 12 inch return. SA & RA
> openings down thru the roof are 13 x 13, bare metal.

gofish@gonefishin.net wrote: "Let he who has never faulted heave the
first stone", remember??
You defend these guys.
Get your allegiances straight.

gofish@gonefishin.net

2006-04-22, 10:21 am

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:01:52 -0400, Cooltemp Industries
<gbroderick@sunlife.com> wrote:

>
>
>gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
>
>
>gofish@gonefishin.net wrote: "Let he who has never faulted heave the
>first stone", remember??
>You defend these guys.
>Get your allegiances straight.

you fuckin moron. I dont do resi- The situ i was referring to is a
commercial install on a commercial bldg. Not a DIYer project.

But its good to know I own you, and that you cling to every word I
write.

Now chamber another round. moron.

gofish@gonefishin.net

2006-04-22, 10:21 am

"Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>Ummm.... GF, its a package unit, and the rain shield he's talking about,
>around here is refered to as a "dog house"...its a cover (ususally tin)that
>goes between the unit and the house to protect the ducts and such.
>

Gotcha. Thanks Noon.
Sometimes seen here on RTU's with durodyne canvas connectors between
units and horizontal duct work.

aka-SBM

2006-04-22, 11:21 am

<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:c4ej42lieel8miejlqjmdaluhjqagrnc7k@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 00:23:53 -0400, "aka-SBM" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> just curious, whats a rain shield? Does NC building codes stipulate a
> rain shield for split sys condensers? Attached to the house and
> shielding the condenser disch from rain?
>

What noon said..

> I know your area gets freezing rain on occasion, is that what its for?
> Are they reqd for condensers 3-4 feet from the house?

Also called a rodent stop...tin house..
A pac unit can be right up to the house, or 3-10 feet from it...but you have
to have the ducts covered with tin.
Or, if its right up against the place, you need a 3-5 inch strip all the way
around it to the ground, sealed with silicone or mastic.

Cooltemp Industries

2006-04-22, 1:21 pm

gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
> I dont do resi-

But that doesn't stop you from jumping in and slamming others who do.

> But its good to know I own you, and that you cling to every word I
> write.

Ya, I can't sleep unless I read one of your brilliant, eye-opening
revelations...yawn....

Like I said, you're a chihuahua...yap,yap.yap...
slip back into your coma.

Cooltemp Industries

2006-04-22, 1:21 pm

gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:

>
> you fuckin moron. I dont do resi-

Ya, OK chihuahua...tell us again how you split a resi system into a zone
when the load is increarsed by 50%....LOL!!!

noi

2006-04-22, 4:21 pm

aka-SBM wrote:
> It was one of those: Honey..its cold.
> Fine..call Central EXXXXXX in Thomasville...(heh)
>
> They bullnosed them into getting one right then...no second bid..no nothing.
> We have it, and if you dont do it now, we wont have it and it will be 3
> weeks bullshit.
> Got an inspector out there today..its about to get nasty.
> They have my bid now to make it right, in case the other
> company....lol...wont make it right.....
> yea..now they are really mad. They have the manual d, and j, and t in
> hand..they can go heat pump, gas/electric or whatever they want now.
> Plus..even if I dont get to fix it, Im gonna inspect it...and Im gonna make
> those lame XXX fucks clean it up...the rain shield they made to connect the
> unit to the home...the joints..nothing but clear silicone, and it looks like
> they cut the tube off, and just smeared it onj..Im gonna hve pics of this
> one.

Let me know if they're on your site. I love laughing at pix of
amateurs trying unsuccessfully to be professionals...in any field.

NOI

gofish@gonefishin.net

2006-04-22, 11:21 pm

Cooltemp Industries <gbroderick@sunlife.com> wrote:

>
>
>gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
>
>
>Ya, OK chihuahua...tell us again how you split a resi system into a zone
>when the load is increarsed by 50%....LOL!!!

let me spell it out for you, you stupid canucklehead

3 story Commercial building. 20+ yr old 3 ton pkg rooftop hp.
3 sepearate suites.

suite 1= 12' x 15' 8 ft clg load= 1 human, flourescents, one
computer
suite 2= 15' x 15' 8 ft clg load= recording studio crammed full
of high end recording gear & lighting
suite 3= 20' x 15', 10 ft clg ofc, west facing brick exterior with
multiple single pane glass windows that opens. greatest exposer to
exterior temps.

3 seperate tenants, each want their own t-stat, heat & cool as they
see fit.

solution= three thermostats talk to a zone control panel which
operates the hp unit and three motorized dampers, one for each zone.
each suite has oversized ducted return.

take your manual d and toss it. If you dont know how to oversize for
zoning, you're in deep shit, as I suspect you probably are.

Install barometric or electronic bypass and disch temp sensor.

hate to burst your bubble, but this scenario does exist and it does
work, both htg & cooling.

your biggest problem is your head is up pjms butt so far you've lost
sight of common sense.

chamber round 3.

aka-SBM

2006-04-22, 11:21 pm

<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:ivjl42haqj7ecdhvdfcjlilh284uti5fl8@4ax.com...
> Cooltemp Industries <gbroderick@sunlife.com> wrote:
>
>
> let me spell it out for you, you stupid canucklehead
>
> 3 story Commercial building. 20+ yr old 3 ton pkg rooftop hp.
> 3 sepearate suites.
>
> suite 1= 12' x 15' 8 ft clg load= 1 human, flourescents, one
> computer
> suite 2= 15' x 15' 8 ft clg load= recording studio crammed full
> of high end recording gear & lighting
> suite 3= 20' x 15', 10 ft clg ofc, west facing brick exterior with
> multiple single pane glass windows that opens. greatest exposer to
> exterior temps.
>
> 3 seperate tenants, each want their own t-stat, heat & cool as they
> see fit.
>
> solution= three thermostats talk to a zone control panel which
> operates the hp unit and three motorized dampers, one for each zone.
> each suite has oversized ducted return.
>
> take your manual d and toss it. If you dont know how to oversize for
> zoning, you're in deep shit, as I suspect you probably are.
>
> Install barometric or electronic bypass and disch temp sensor.
>
> hate to burst your bubble, but this scenario does exist and it does
> work, both htg & cooling.
>
> your biggest problem is your head is up pjms butt so far you've lost
> sight of common sense.
>
> chamber round 3.

Just curious....whats your ratio of outside air on that? If its an old
Sunline that is..

ftwhd

2006-04-22, 11:21 pm

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 21:36:02 -0400, "aka-SBM" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
wrote:

>
><gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
>news:ivjl42haqj7ecdhvdfcjlilh284uti5fl8@4ax.com...
>
>Just curious....whats your ratio of outside air on that? If its an old
>Sunline that is..
>
If its an old sunline scrape it off the roof and put something modern
in and save energy. Saving energy is getting to be my latest kick
because I just cant see shoveling any more money to the cock sucking
energy and oil barons then we need to. Cut em off is what I say. We
all as hvac pros should make a concerted effort to push the highest
SEER and AFUE shit on the market.

aka-SBM

2006-04-23, 1:21 am

"ftwhd" <U.A.Star@home.com> wrote in message
news:3vnl42t4q987s6n0uildgi4sethe8j46gj@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 21:36:02 -0400, "aka-SBM" <biteme@fuckoff.com>
> wrote:
>
> If its an old sunline scrape it off the roof and put something modern
> in and save energy. Saving energy is getting to be my latest kick
> because I just cant see shoveling any more money to the cock sucking
> energy and oil barons then we need to. Cut em off is what I say. We
> all as hvac pros should make a concerted effort to push the highest
> SEER and AFUE shit on the market.

Hell hath frozen over.....for once I agree with ya.

Ive started quoting 16+ SEER resi units as the basic starting point. Im not
sold on the 18 SEER units yet that York has for the simple fact that the
outdoor units DC motor seems to have a few issues no one seems to be able to
explain.....like that damn high piched whine that seems to be normal...its
not normal, and Im not gonna install the damn things. Get it out, get it
gone, and we will talk.

With commercial (light that is...) Predators. Maybe a Trane. Real light..13
SEER pack units.just depends.
I kinda expect to see the 13SEER ruling fall out of favor soon, and 14 be
the new min....altho, its probably a couple of years down the road.
I imagine, that if everyone tomorrow went out and put in a 14SEER AC and
upgraded their gas units to 93%+, and the oil fired FAU units to heat pumps
with gas backup in the climes that would require it, you would see an end to
the blackouts and such like TX just had....its gonna get worse.

Hell, Ive been filling the vans DAILY to keep the "cheap" gas around here in
them. $2.90 is cheap now. $3.50 is what some stations are showing. I dunno
about you guys, but to put 10 gal of fuel in a van thats gonna go maybe 150
miles on that 10...its getting stupid...$200 a day or more to fuel?
Had a station here today drop to $2.77. Police were called out to direct
traffic, and stop the fights. TAlk about a fucking mess.

Between the illegal issue, fuel prices, home market about to bust...I
dunno..kinda glad I invested in some decent ammo and stuff..LOL.

Besides...I got to thinking about something today. Im spending more in fuel,
on ONE van, one ONE days worth of travel, than some people make in a day.
Those same people, might drive a car that gets 10-15 MPG and they might also
have to put 100 miles on it in a day....where do you draw the line on work,
eat, rent...etc...
I see a huge fucking mess staring us all in the face, and its not gonna be
pretty.

And no Mike..Im not saying its all Bushs' fault..after all, the SUV craze
started under Clinton....as did Monica..LOL

Oscar_Lives

2006-04-23, 2:21 am

"aka-SBM" <biteme@fuckoff.com> wrote in message
news:zdi2g.82$X_1.745@eagle.america.net...
>
> <gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
> news:uglh4252fsqgq1tdv5fkalm4s3i2cant3p@4ax.com...
>
> It was one of those: Honey..its cold.
> Fine..call Central EXXXXXX in Thomasville...(heh)
>
> They bullnosed them into getting one right then...no second bid..no
> nothing. We have it, and if you dont do it now, we wont have it and it
> will be 3 weeks bullshit.
> Got an inspector out there today..its about to get nasty.
> They have my bid now to make it right, in case the other
> company....lol...wont make it right.....
> yea..now they are really mad. They have the manual d, and j, and t in
> hand..they can go heat pump, gas/electric or whatever they want now.
> Plus..even if I dont get to fix it, Im gonna inspect it...and Im gonna
> make those lame XXX fucks clean it up...the rain shield they made to
> connect the unit to the home...the joints..nothing but clear silicone, and
> it looks like they cut the tube off, and just smeared it onj..Im gonna hve
> pics of this one.

"Sharin' Peters"? What a name!

PrecisionMechanical

2006-04-23, 3:21 am

<gofish@gonefishin.net> wrote in message
news:ivjl42haqj7ecdhvdfcjlilh284uti5fl8@4ax.com...
> Cooltemp Industries <gbroderick@sunlife.com> wrote:
>
>
> let me spell it out for you, you stupid canucklehead
>

Hehe..."Canucklehead".....

I still chuckle whenever I hear that particlar form of endearment...

>
> 3 story Commercial building. 20+ yr old 3 ton pkg rooftop hp.
> 3 sepearate suites.
>
> suite 1= 12' x 15' 8 ft clg load= 1 human, flourescents, one
> computer
> suite 2= 15' x 15' 8 ft clg load= recording studio crammed full
> of high end recording gear & lighting
> suite 3= 20' x 15', 10 ft clg ofc, west facing brick exterior with
> multiple single pane glass windows that opens. greatest exposer to
> exterior temps.
>
> 3 seperate tenants, each want their own t-stat, heat & cool as they
> see fit.
>
> solution= three thermostats talk to a zone control panel which
> operates the hp unit and three motorized dampers, one for each zone.
> each suite has oversized ducted return.
>
> take your manual d and toss it. If you dont know how to oversize for
> zoning, you're in deep shit, as I suspect you probably are.
>
> Install barometric or electronic bypass and disch temp sensor.
>
> hate to burst your bubble, but this scenario does exist and it does
> work, both htg & cooling.
>
> your biggest problem is your head is up pjms butt so far you've lost
> sight of common sense.
>
> chamber round 3.

Cooltemp, suggest maybe poke around the below site if you find yourself with
some free time :

http://www.ewccontrols.com/ultrazone/ultrazone.htm

In particular, checking out their section on ducting :

http://www.ewccontrols.com/ultrazone/duct_sizing.htm

--

SVL

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