Heating and air conditioning - Compressor problem

Author

Compressor problem

Al Moran

2006-05-13, 11:21 pm

Go on maintenace on 1 yo 2 ton split goodman in april. outside temp is
73 degrees. Head pressure is 150, suction is 85. Compressor is
copeland scroll. I want to replace compressor but service manager
tells me it is the txv valve so like a good employee I replace txv.
Did not solve problem. Outside air temp 90. high side pressure 190,
suction 90, compressor only drawing 5A. What else can be causing this
besides the compressor?

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-13, 11:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:32:25 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Go on maintenace on 1 yo 2 ton split goodman in april. outside temp is
>73 degrees. Head pressure is 150, suction is 85. Compressor is
>copeland scroll. I want to replace compressor but service manager
>tells me it is the txv valve so like a good employee I replace txv.
>Did not solve problem. Outside air temp 90. high side pressure 190,
>suction 90, compressor only drawing 5A. What else can be causing this
>besides the compressor?

Without having ALL the required measurements ( and you've
provided about 1/2 of them ), it's impossible to tell.

Then you buy TECH METHOD from Gary Lloyd and study it.

Then you fix the AC unit.

--
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Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
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Al Moran

2006-05-13, 11:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:39:25 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:32:25 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
> Without having ALL the required measurements ( and you've
>provided about 1/2 of them ), it's impossible to tell.
>
> Then you buy TECH METHOD from Gary Lloyd and study it.
>
> Then you fix the AC unit.

superheat 1, subcooling 8, td 9, 12 seer, static pressure .5, blower
set to correct speed for cooling, no restrictions in the evap coil,
filter clean, even took filter out, blower blades clean, outdoor fan
motor running correct direction, blades not bent, drawing 1/2
amp,thermostat calibrated correctly.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-14, 12:21 am

On Sun, 14 May 2006 02:10:05 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:39:25 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>
>superheat 1, subcooling 8, td 9, 12 seer, static pressure .5, blower
>set to correct speed for cooling, no restrictions in the evap coil,
>filter clean, even took filter out, blower blades clean, outdoor fan
>motor running correct direction, blades not bent, drawing 1/2
>amp,thermostat calibrated correctly.

Check TVX Bulb location, strapping, and wrapping. Check TXV
correct for refrigerant ( and chech correct refrigerant ), correct TXV
for unit.

With those head pressures, the comp is pumping. With that
back pressure and SH, the flow is not getting restricted properly.

If heat pump, possible check valve or RV bypassing.

Possible airflow low

You do not have a bad compressor.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Al Moran

2006-05-14, 12:21 am

On Sun, 14 May 2006 02:32:23 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 02:10:05 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
> Check TVX Bulb location, strapping, and wrapping. Check TXV
>correct for refrigerant ( and chech correct refrigerant ), correct TXV
>for unit.
>
> With those head pressures, the comp is pumping. With that
>back pressure and SH, the flow is not getting restricted properly.
>
> If heat pump, possible check valve or RV bypassing.
>
> Possible airflow low
>
> You do not have a bad compressor.

Old valve was correct one and in correct place and position, new valve
is correct one and in correct position (4 o clock) and place.
refrigerant is r22, reclaimed it,installed new txv, installed filter
drier, pulled vacum to 500 microns, recharged it with 99 oz of
refrigerant per data plate. not a hp, split gas so no rv. Airflow is
ok, blower motor set to correct speed tap for ac (black), dip switches
set for correct cfm, blower drawing aprox 5 1/2 A, return air duct
sized correctly.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-14, 12:21 am

On Sun, 14 May 2006 02:45:12 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 02:32:23 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>
>Old valve was correct one and in correct place and position, new valve
>is correct one and in correct position (4 o clock) and place.
>refrigerant is r22, reclaimed it,installed new txv, installed filter
>drier, pulled vacum to 500 microns, recharged it with 99 oz of
>refrigerant per data plate. not a hp, split gas so no rv. Airflow is
>ok, blower motor set to correct speed tap for ac (black), dip switches
>set for correct cfm, blower drawing aprox 5 1/2 A, return air duct
>sized correctly.

New refrigerant I assume ?

What's the RLA on the comp ?

It really sounds like something is bypassing.

Even with a weak comp, the TXV should be able to close down
and do better than 1 SH.

SC is good, so you know you're pumping enough to maintain a
liquid head.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Al Moran

2006-05-14, 12:21 am

On Sun, 14 May 2006 02:52:50 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 02:45:12 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
> New refrigerant I assume ?
>
> What's the RLA on the comp ?
>
> It really sounds like something is bypassing.
>
> Even with a weak comp, the TXV should be able to close down
>and do better than 1 SH.
>
> SC is good, so you know you're pumping enough to maintain a
>liquid head.

rla is 18 A. One of my books from school says that the ONLY thing that
can cause this is a compressor with "bad valves". Even showed this to
the service manager when he said to replace the txv. Only problem is
that this one is a scroll, hence, no valves. The compressor is
definetly getting flooded with that superheat, which would suggest low
ir flow, overcharge to name a few, or a bad compressor. And yes, I
used new refrigerant.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-14, 1:21 am

On Sun, 14 May 2006 03:00:10 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 02:52:50 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>
>rla is 18 A.

On a 2 ton ?????? Wow !!!!!! Damn, that's high !

> One of my books from school says that the ONLY thing that
>can cause this is a compressor with "bad valves".

Not on a scroll :-)

> Even showed this to
>the service manager when he said to replace the txv. Only problem is
>that this one is a scroll, hence, no valves. The compressor is
>definetly getting flooded with that superheat, which would suggest low
>ir flow, overcharge to name a few, or a bad compressor. And yes, I
>used new refrigerant.

Last resort - pull the charge, intercept the suction line and
block it ( assuming you don't have handy dandy valves, which you won't
in a little resi Goodman ), and see if it pulls a vacumn.

My bet is it does. I just purely don't see a bad comp here,
not with those head pressures and sub-cool.

SH and high back is the problem, you're flooding, the
restriction isn't there.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Jake

2006-05-14, 2:21 am

> SH and high back is the problem, you're flooding, the
> restriction isn't there.
>
>

Q: Is it a belt drive evap fan?

I'm a dumb-XXX at this, but maybe flooding is because of poor evap.
performance.

What's the in/out air temp. at the evap?

Jake

Noon-Air

2006-05-14, 2:21 am

"Al Moran" <almoran@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b24d62h7m429v47hrjfvbrpc46a4v7tmik@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:39:25 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
> wrote:
>
>
> superheat 1, subcooling 8, td 9, 12 seer, static pressure .5, blower
> set to correct speed for cooling, no restrictions in the evap coil,
> filter clean, even took filter out, blower blades clean, outdoor fan
> motor running correct direction, blades not bent, drawing 1/2
> amp,thermostat calibrated correctly.

ok... lets start with some basics.... SH of 1 is a flooded evap(TXV is wide
open).... with a TXV you should see approximately 10 degrees SH, and 18-22
degrees with a piston or flow rater. Your LLP is way low(at 73 degrees,
expect to see 180psi, at 90 degrees around 250 or so), and SC is too
low(starved condenser coil)... you won't even see a complete and total
liquid column to the TXV until you get to 10 - 14 degrees SH. Like Paul
said, the compressor is *not* bad.
Your not getting the correct pressure drop across the expansion valve.

Questions......
Are you SURE that you have the correct expansion valve and didn't just put
in another of the same as what came out?? Is the expansion valve
adjustable?? Was it installed in the correct direction??

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-14, 2:21 am

On Sun, 14 May 2006 00:19:50 -0400, Jake <jkelleyus@insightbb.com>
wrote:

>
>
>Q: Is it a belt drive evap fan?
>
>I'm a dumb-XXX at this, but maybe flooding is because of poor evap.
>performance.
>
>What's the in/out air temp. at the evap?

He has a low DT - 9, if I recall, which is not suprising given
a lack of refer restriction and low SH.

IOW , if pressure drop in refer flow is not being introduced,
then heat transfer won't be there, causing both of the above.

If it were just low airflow, the TXV would still be able to
produce a better SH and lower back. In fact, the low air would CAUSE
a low back, whereas his is high.

>
>Jake

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

ftwhd

2006-05-14, 8:21 am

Al Moran

2006-05-14, 10:21 am

On Sun, 14 May 2006 04:26:05 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
[color=darkred]
>On Sun, 14 May 2006 00:19:50 -0400, Jake <jkelleyus@insightbb.com>
>wrote:
>
>
> He has a low DT - 9, if I recall, which is not suprising given
>a lack of refer restriction and low SH.
>
> IOW , if pressure drop in refer flow is not being introduced,
>then heat transfer won't be there, causing both of the above.
>
> If it were just low airflow, the TXV would still be able to
>produce a better SH and lower back. In fact, the low air would CAUSE
>a low back, whereas his is high.
>
>

Ran a simulation of the problem with all of the numbers that I had at
first call and yesterdays call on Simutech. Only two scenarios match
my situation. One is "txv stuck open", the other is "bad compressor
valve". On the txv stuck open scenario the compressor draws 16 A at
common, on the bad compreesor valve scenario the compressor draws 5A,
which is exactly what is happening. All other data matches in both
scenarios, ie, low superheat, close to normal subcooling, high suction
and low to normal head. I am going to call goodman tech support on
Monday and see what they say about it, and Jake, the blower is not
belt driven.

Al Moran

2006-05-14, 11:21 am

On Sun, 14 May 2006 13:27:54 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 13:12:21 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
> I'm still amazed that the thing pulls that kind of amps for
>only 2 tons !
>
> This IS 240 V, right ?
>
> OK, I've been out of the field for a lon time, but isn't that
>INSANELY high ? 8 A / ton ????

My experience has been that regardless of what the rla is rated at, it
varies with the od temp. Higher odt, higher amp draw until it reaches
rla, all other things being equal. I went back and looked at the
system specs in Simutech and it is for a 3 ton, and the tonnage cannot
be changed in the simulator. Its rla is 17 and its fla is 75, and yes,
the system I am working on is 240. When its cooler out I have seen
compressors rated at 18A draw only 12 to 13 amps, then the next year
go do maintenance on same system at higher odt and rla will be higher
and system is running correctly, that is to say that charge, td, sh &
sc are correct.

lp13-30

2006-05-14, 11:21 am

Nearly every Amana unit I have installed in the last couple of years has
run with a superheat of 1-2, and even negative in some cases, until the
TXV is adjusted. (should be the same coil as Goodman) Also had about 3
that upon startup, pulled straight down to the LP cutout setting of 20
or so, and stayed there. They usually seem to come from the factory
wide open though. Is this valve inside the coil case, mounted to the
back side of the front panel? Those are real fun to get to. I finally
told our manager that if they sold another one of those coils, he could
come and replace or adjust the valve himself and see for himself what I
was talking about. They started buying piston coils and add the txv
externally. Still a pita to adjust, but at least you can get to it. You
ususally have to turn the stem in about 8 turns. You will turn and turn
it, with no difference in SH, then get to a point where 1/8 turn will
make a 10+ difference in SH. The valve the factory uses are the biggest
POS I have ever seen. If the customer will let you, replace the valve
with a decent one. Good luck Larry

Al Moran

2006-05-14, 11:21 am

On Sun, 14 May 2006 08:52:05 -0500, LP1330@webtv.net (lp13-30) wrote:

>Nearly every Amana unit I have installed in the last couple of years has
>run with a superheat of 1-2, and even negative in some cases, until the
>TXV is adjusted. (should be the same coil as Goodman) Also had about 3
>that upon startup, pulled straight down to the LP cutout setting of 20
>or so, and stayed there. They usually seem to come from the factory
>wide open though. Is this valve inside the coil case, mounted to the
>back side of the front panel? Those are real fun to get to. I finally
>told our manager that if they sold another one of those coils, he could
>come and replace or adjust the valve himself and see for himself what I
>was talking about. They started buying piston coils and add the txv
>externally. Still a pita to adjust, but at least you can get to it. You
>ususally have to turn the stem in about 8 turns. You will turn and turn
>it, with no difference in SH, then get to a point where 1/8 turn will
>make a 10+ difference in SH. The valve the factory uses are the biggest
>POS I have ever seen. If the customer will let you, replace the valve
>with a decent one. Good luck Larry

Goodman and Amana, same piece of shit. Both txv's, according to the
data insert that came with them, are "factory adjusted" and I saw no
place to adjust either of them. This one is mounted as you describe
and it took me 30 minutes to get the pos out and replace it, and of
course the air handler is in the attic where it was 137 fucking
degrees. The case that the coil is encased in is the goodman case but
the coil is ADP, which also are a piece of shit.

DIDO

2006-05-14, 12:21 pm

From info. you have gave you have one problem
compressor is leaking through. perhaps relief valve
is blowing through crack on discharge or some
problem in scroll cage it self.
close off liquid and see how low can compressor
bring pressure down that will tell you if compressor
is pumping as it should. your TXV is not the problem
unless valve is "oversized" and your system "undercharge"
this will gave you same conditions that you are having
Good luck from Dido

lp13-30

2006-05-14, 1:21 pm

The valves Amana used when they made the beige/tan coils had a large
flat nut on the bottom and were not adjustable AFAIK. We never had much
trouble with them. Can't recall seeing a Goodman with a valve until
recently, when they started making them that same dark greenish color as
Amana. Those valve have a nut on the bottom that takes, as I recall a
5/8 wrench, and has a stem inside that I think is 1/8". If you have a 1
deg SH on a TXV unit, the valve is not operating properly, assuming it
is used in the temp range it is designed for. That is not saying there
may not be other problems also, but the valve's only job is to meter the
ref and maintain the SH is is set for. Right now, the compressor amps
are low because all it is doing is circulating ref through the system,
and that ref is doing little else in the way of heat transfer. I went
out back and looked at a 2 ton Ruud I have sitting there, but the tag
was faded and not readable. That is the only 2 ton I got laying around,
but on a 2 1/2 XL1200 out there, the comp RLA is 12. I would think your
unit should be drawing approx 8 under normal OA and RA temps.

Bubba

2006-05-14, 1:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 13:12:21 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 04:26:05 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>
>
>Ran a simulation of the problem with all of the numbers that I had at
>first call and yesterdays call on Simutech. Only two scenarios match
>my situation. One is "txv stuck open", the other is "bad compressor
>valve". On the txv stuck open scenario the compressor draws 16 A at
>common, on the bad compreesor valve scenario the compressor draws 5A,
>which is exactly what is happening. All other data matches in both
>scenarios, ie, low superheat, close to normal subcooling, high suction
>and low to normal head. I am going to call goodman tech support on
>Monday and see what they say about it, and Jake, the blower is not
>belt driven.

Goodman tech support? hehe
Obviously you've never dont that. You might as well talk to the wall
you are next to. You may get better results.
Oh well, you've gotta do it once just for a laugh.
Bubba

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-14, 2:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 14:00:47 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 13:27:54 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>
>
>My experience has been that regardless of what the rla is rated at, it
>varies with the od temp. Higher odt, higher amp draw until it reaches
>rla, all other things being equal. I went back and looked at the
>system specs in Simutech and it is for a 3 ton, and the tonnage cannot
>be changed in the simulator. Its rla is 17

OK, that's more like what I would be expecting - 4 -5 amp /
ton.

>and its fla is 75, and yes,
>the system I am working on is 240. When its cooler out I have seen
>compressors rated at 18A draw only 12 to 13 amps, then the next year
>go do maintenance on same system at higher odt and rla will be higher
>and system is running correctly, that is to say that charge, td, sh &
>sc are correct.

I'm just suprised that a 2 ton pulls more than maybe 10 A max
RLA. Like I said, maybe I just forget the numbers ......

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

aka-SBM

2006-05-14, 2:21 pm

"Bubba >" <<ReMoVe likealake@iname.com> wrote in message
news:oqke62d351nio81v64474lb0k400u0uc4l@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 14 May 2006 13:12:21 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Goodman tech support? hehe
> Obviously you've never dont that. You might as well talk to the wall
> you are next to. You may get better results.
> Oh well, you've gotta do it once just for a laugh.
> Bubba

Thank you for calling Goodman Manufacturing. Your call is important to
us..CLICK

Thank you for calling Goodman Tech support, for Spanish, stay on the line,
for German, press 1, for English...(HEY, we got anyone here that still
speaks English but MEEE??)

This is Abdul, thank you very much for calling Goodman, can I have your
model number and serial please thank you very much.?

This is Ken, thanks dood fer callin Ama...I mean Goodman. Whats yer issue?

This is Kimmy, and ill be your Goodman tech support slut..I mean, help
today, you need help with what? Whats that? It goes where?

No, Im sorry, I just answer the phones, I have no idea what you are talking
about. Allow me to transfer you to Ken, hes worked on them before..
This is Ken..yo..dood..you there or what?

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-14, 2:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 03:00:10 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 02:52:50 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>
>rla is 18 A. One of my books from school says that the ONLY thing that

Check match of ahu to condensor - correct pairing ? Correct
original compressor inside condensor ? Need to check / x-ref model
#'s on all.

I'm still not buying 18 rated RLA on a 2 ton. That's double
what it should be.

Here's some current Goodman numbers

http://www.goodmanmfg.com/ 'Product specs' link

GSC14-0181A 18,000 7.7
GSC14-0241A 24,000 10.4
GSC14-0301A 28,800 12.2
GSC14-0361A 34,600 14.1

Why is yours so out of line from other Goodmans ?

Also check that pressures at condensor match those at the AHU,
minus line loss. Both sides.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Bubba

2006-05-14, 3:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 11:58:51 -0400, Bubba <<ReMoVe
likealake@iname.com>> wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 13:12:21 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
>wrote:

>

I just did a search on Simutech. (since I never heard of it)
Dang! Not cheap. $595 to $695 per single user license per module.
Air Cond is one module
Heat pump is another
Gas furnace another
Oil furnace another
etc,
It also doesnt look like they have a multi-pkg price if you buy more
than one module?
It'd be nice to play with the prog but for a smaller company that
kinda pricing is just a wee bit much. (as expected)
Bubba

Al Moran

2006-05-14, 3:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 16:14:42 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 14:00:47 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
> OK, that's more like what I would be expecting - 4 -5 amp /
>ton.
>
>
> I'm just suprised that a 2 ton pulls more than maybe 10 A max
>RLA. Like I said, maybe I just forget the numbers ......

No you're right. I looked up the model number, it draws 9A rla.

Al Moran

2006-05-14, 3:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 11:58:51 -0400, Bubba <<ReMoVe
likealake@iname.com>> wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 13:12:21 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>Goodman tech support? hehe
>Obviously you've never dont that. You might as well talk to the wall
>you are next to. You may get better results.
>Oh well, you've gotta do it once just for a laugh.
>Bubba

I have done it and you are right. This is at the suggestion of the
service manager. Nuff said.

Al Moran

2006-05-14, 3:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 13:34:27 -0400, Bubba <<ReMoVe
likealake@iname.com>> wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 11:58:51 -0400, Bubba <<ReMoVe
>likealake@iname.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>I just did a search on Simutech. (since I never heard of it)
>Dang! Not cheap. $595 to $695 per single user license per module.
>Air Cond is one module
>Heat pump is another
>Gas furnace another
>Oil furnace another
>etc,
>It also doesnt look like they have a multi-pkg price if you buy more
>than one module?
>It'd be nice to play with the prog but for a smaller company that
>kinda pricing is just a wee bit much. (as expected)
>Bubba

I have all of the modules. Got them when I went to school since uncle
sam paid for it. Being a vet has its privleges!

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-14, 4:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 18:10:26 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 16:14:42 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>
>
>No you're right. I looked up the model number, it draws 9A rla.

But the unit said something else, that you wrote down ?????

First I would verify all 3 points of equipment matching, as
mentioned before. AHU / condensor / compressor.

If match is good, OK. And pulling 5 A, if I recall. Now
we're more in an area that makes sense. It's pumping fine, just
underloaded. Your compressor is not bad.

Then, I would verify that pressures at the condensor are the
same as at the AHU, minus 2 - 4 psi line loss, so you know nothing
funny is happening in the lineset.

The new TXV you put in - was it Goodman branded ? Was it
non-adjustable ? IOW, those little OEM POS's they use ? If 'yes' and
'yes', in that order - I would go get a real Sporlan ( not Goodman
branded ) adjustable TXV, with bleed, and put it in.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Bubba

2006-05-14, 10:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 18:13:19 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 13:34:27 -0400, Bubba <<ReMoVe
>likealake@iname.com>> wrote:
>
>
>I have all of the modules. Got them when I went to school since uncle
>sam paid for it. Being a vet has its privleges!

I'll trade you 5 Mickey Mantles and one of those old pieces of bubble
gum for those modules.
:-)
Bubba
(oh yeah, and a reverse flow @ductbooster)

Al Moran

2006-05-14, 10:21 pm

On Sun, 14 May 2006 21:00:25 -0400, Bubba <<ReMoVe
likealake@iname.com>> wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 18:13:19 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>I'll trade you 5 Mickey Mantles and one of those old pieces of bubble
>gum for those modules.
>:-)
>Bubba
>(oh yeah, and a reverse flow @ductbooster)

Throw in one of those new digital thur me stats you're always raving
about and we'll talk.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-15, 12:21 am

On Sun, 14 May 2006 15:05:22 GMT, "DIDO" <a.seput@verizon.net> wrote:

>From info. you have gave you have one problem
>compressor is leaking through. perhaps relief valve
>is blowing through crack on discharge or some
>problem in scroll cage it self.
>close off liquid and see how low can compressor
>bring pressure down that will tell you if compressor
>is pumping as it should. your TXV is not the problem
>unless valve is "oversized" and your system "undercharge"
>this will gave you same conditions that you are having
>Good luck from Dido
>

You're a fucking clueless idiot, and you need to STFU.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Bubba

2006-05-15, 9:21 am

On Mon, 15 May 2006 02:50:01 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 May 2006 15:05:22 GMT, "DIDO" <a.seput@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> You're a fucking clueless idiot, and you need to STFU.

Ya know, that was EXACTLY what I was thinking but for some strange
unknown reason, I decided to let that one pass.
"Shame on me" :-)
Bubba

DIDO

2006-05-15, 10:21 pm

That is why I get paid $90.00 per hour work or travel.

while you playing with self "JACKASS"

All the best from Dido

DIDO

2006-05-15, 10:21 pm

Mr. Budala
Maybe you should also join JACKASS
friend Paul
All the best from Dido

aka-SBM

2006-05-16, 1:21 pm

"DIDO" <a.seput@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:zm9ag.1189$cl5.6@trndny07...
> That is why I get paid $90.00 per hour work or travel.
>

Then we need to change your name to rapist, cause you fucking the hell out
of your customers.

> while you playing with self "JACKASS"
>
> All the best from Dido
>

Noon-Air

2006-05-16, 3:21 pm

"aka-SBM" <biteme@fuckoff.com> wrote in message
news:4cmag.801$pI6.3132@eagle.america.net...
>
> "DIDO" <a.seput@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:zm9ag.1189$cl5.6@trndny07...
>
> Then we need to change your name to rapist, cause you fucking the hell out
> of your customers.

I charge more than DIDO does, and have not raised my rates since before
Katrina.... every time I do, I keep getting more calls to come fix or
install a new system from new customers.... I am having to turn away work. I
hired a helper, but still can't find another *qualified* tech that will show
up on time, sober(not hung over), with a clean uniform, ready to work, and
can pass a drug screening.

And yes I do sleep very well at night, thanx :-)

DIDO

2006-05-16, 4:21 pm

NA same here!
but you see some so call tech's. here they need to read manual
day or two before then can put gas into system.
Customers like mine don't call on man from two three hundred
miles way if they can get some one locally that knows what to do.
Now those JACKASSES that think to be tech's.
What kind references do you guys have other then being
J A C K A S S
By the way my minimum charge is $360.00 plus travel expense
You want shake my that is what is going to cost you.
For those that think that are Tech's put it you pipe and smoke it.

All the best Dido

Travis Jordan

2006-05-16, 5:21 pm

Noon-Air wrote:
> I charge more than DIDO does, and have not raised my rates since
> before Katrina.... every time I do, I keep getting more calls to come
> fix or install a new system from new customers.... I am having to
> turn away work.

Economics 101 says you should raise your rates until you no longer have
to turn away work.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-16, 5:21 pm

On Tue, 16 May 2006 19:22:41 GMT, "Travis Jordan" <no.one@no.net>
wrote:

>Noon-Air wrote:
>
>Economics 101 says you should raise your rates until you no longer have
>to turn away work.
>

He's in a area where a trained monkey could get work as an
HVAC contractor right now.

Different story 2 years ago, huh, Nooner ?

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

PrecisionMechanicaL

2006-05-16, 6:21 pm

"DILDO" <a.seput@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:9Roag.1544$nq5.558@trndny06...

>
> By the way my minimum charge is $360.00 plus travel expense
>

Not worth my getting dressed in the morning...

--

SVL

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-16, 7:21 pm

On Tue, 16 May 2006 14:04:51 -0700, "PrecisionMechanicaL"
<precisionmachinist@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"DILDO" <a.seput@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:9Roag.1544$nq5.558@trndny06...
>

Suuuuure it is, Dildo.
[color=darkred]
>
>
>Not worth my getting dressed in the morning...

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Bubba

2006-05-16, 9:21 pm

On Tue, 16 May 2006 18:28:21 GMT, "DIDO" <a.seput@verizon.net> wrote:

>NA same here!
>but you see some so call tech's. here they need to read manual
>day or two before then can put gas into system.
>Customers like mine don't call on man from two three hundred
>miles way if they can get some one locally that knows what to do.
>Now those JACKASSES that think to be tech's.
>What kind references do you guys have other then being
>J A C K A S S
>By the way my minimum charge is $360.00 plus travel expense
>You want shake my that is what is going to cost you.
>For those that think that are Tech's put it you pipe and smoke it.
>
>All the best Dido
>
>
I think if you are going to post in here you ought to learn to read,
write and comprehend English just a tad bit better than you do now.
By the way.........your so called "minimum charge" aint shit.
Are you done puffing your chest out now Diddly?
Bubba

aka-SBM

2006-05-16, 10:21 pm

"DIDO" <a.seput@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:9Roag.1544$nq5.558@trndny06...
> NA same here!
> but you see some so call tech's. here they need to read manual
> day or two before then can put gas into system.
> Customers like mine don't call on man from two three hundred
> miles way if they can get some one locally that knows what to do.
> Now those JACKASSES that think to be tech's.

You can call me what you want, but at least I can communicate to the
homeowner...

> What kind references do you guys have other then being
> J A C K A S S

100% born and bred American right now seems to be a plus.....

> By the way my minimum charge is $360.00 plus travel expense

Bullshit.
Bull fucking shit.

> You want shake my that is what is going to cost you.
> For those that think that are Tech's put it you pipe and smoke it.

I wont move out of bed for $360....period.
But then, I can make that and NOT get out of bed...sucks to be you.

>
> All the best Dido
>
>
>

Al Moran

2006-05-17, 9:21 am

Update - Call goodman tech support, wait on hold 30 minutes. Guy comes
on phone, explain problem, explain that I changed out txv, first thing
out of his mouth, in the the most hickish sounding southern draw,
"well sounds like you need to change out the txv". Tell him again that
I did that, he puts me on hold for another 15 minutes, comes back on
the phone and tells me that the problem is either the txv or the
compressor and suggests that I try changing out the txv valve first. I
lose it, start cussing, hang up on the retard and turn problem over to
service manager and tell him it's his problem, deal with it.

Travis Jordan

2006-05-17, 10:21 am

Al Moran wrote:
> I lose it, start cussing, hang up on the retard and turn problem over
to
> service manager and tell him it's his problem, deal with it.

Thus insuring that you will forever be tagged as the guy that gives up
when faced with a challenge. Also decreasing your chances of ever being
promoted and increasing your chances of remaining a field technician
forever.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-17, 11:21 am

On Wed, 17 May 2006 11:51:31 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Update - Call goodman tech support, wait on hold 30 minutes. Guy comes
>on phone, explain problem, explain that I changed out txv, first thing
>out of his mouth, in the the most hickish sounding southern draw,
>"well sounds like you need to change out the txv". Tell him again that
>I did that, he puts me on hold for another 15 minutes, comes back on
>the phone and tells me that the problem is either the txv or the
>compressor and suggests that I try changing out the txv valve first. I
>lose it, start cussing, hang up on the retard and turn problem over to
>service manager and tell him it's his problem, deal with it.

That's why they make the big bucks :-)

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

aka-SBM

2006-05-17, 11:21 am

"Al Moran" <almoran@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d83m62tscttbktsc67bsqpttjbpn4m4rsu@4ax.com...
> Update - Call goodman tech support, wait on hold 30 minutes. Guy comes
> on phone, explain problem, explain that I changed out txv, first thing
> out of his mouth, in the the most hickish sounding southern draw,
> "well sounds like you need to change out the txv". Tell him again that
> I did that, he puts me on hold for another 15 minutes, comes back on
> the phone and tells me that the problem is either the txv or the
> compressor and suggests that I try changing out the txv valve first. I
> lose it, start cussing, hang up on the retard and turn problem over to
> service manager and tell him it's his problem, deal with it.

So, do what Goodman said..LOL...and change em both.

Just curious, since I havent installed a new Goodman in years...what brand
of TXV are they using?

ftwhd

2006-05-17, 9:21 pm

On Wed, 17 May 2006 11:51:31 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

snip
>I lose it, start cussing, hang up on the retard and turn problem over to
>service manager and tell him it's his problem, deal with it.

Quitter.

On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:32:25 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Go on maintenace on 1 yo 2 ton split goodman in april. outside temp is
>73 degrees. Head pressure is 150, suction is 85. Compressor is
>copeland scroll.

You say scroll and Goodman says recip. They dont offer a scroll until
13 seer unless its the comercial 3 phase unit and you said it was a 12
seer model. What I get from all that is you dont know what it is.

Why dont you do yourself a favor and take the amp readings and the
suction and head pressure over to your local copeland dealer and have
them look it up on the preformance charts. Then you can go put
another txv on. Try not to fuck it up again.

http://www.goodmanmfg.com/consumer/...tedSite=Goodman

Tekkie®

2006-05-17, 9:21 pm

aka-SBM posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

> So, do what Goodman said..LOL...and change em both.
>
> Just curious, since I havent installed a new Goodman in years...what brand
> of TXV are they using?
>
Whatever stormy has in his white used drywall bucket...
--
Tekkie

Bob_Loblaw

2006-05-17, 10:21 pm

"DIDO" <a.seput@verizon.net> wrote in news:9Roag.1544$nq5.558@trndny06:

> By the way my minimum charge is $360.00 plus travel expense

Pffffffttt!!
I charge that much for a t/couple!
LOL
Hi guys! It's been a while. Hope everyone is healthy!
Thought I'd drop in and see who's still here!

Respectfully, Bob

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-17, 11:21 pm

On Thu, 18 May 2006 01:07:16 GMT, "Bob_Loblaw"
<inocentbystander@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"DIDO" <a.seput@verizon.net> wrote in news:9Roag.1544$nq5.558@trndny06:
>
>
>
>
>
>Pffffffttt!!
>I charge that much for a t/couple!
>LOL
>Hi guys! It's been a while. Hope everyone is healthy!
>Thought I'd drop in and see who's still here!
>
>Respectfully, Bob

Hey, Bob-

Pull up a turd, we kept one warm for you here in the sewer :-)

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

lp13-30

2006-05-18, 12:21 am

I just got home after installing a 4 ton 13 SEER Amana heat pump system
today. Supposedly the AH we used gives a 14 SEER. AH came with a
piston-- pulled it out and added a TXV externally. After running about
1/2 hour or more, the suction was about 82 psi, suction line temp 42
deg. Had to adjust the "factory adjusted" valve. On this one, it only
took about 2 turns to reach the point where 1/8- 1/4 turn makes 10 diff
in SH instead of about 8 turns on the older ones. I think the valves are
Danfoss, but I wouldn't swear to it. I will swear that they are a piece
of crap. At least mounted extenally they are a hell of a lot easier to
adjust, and this one was an upflow in a closet, so it was not that bad.
I am pretty sure the valve on your unit is adjustable, but it is a major
PITA to get to and to adjust. But if you only have 1-2 deg SH on a TXV
coil as you said originally, the valve is the problem. Best thing to do,
as Paul and I both suggested, is to take that POS out, and install a
good one like a Sporlan externally. Good luck Larry

Bob_Loblaw

2006-05-18, 1:21 am

..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote in
news:97in62lk50equa8692btclvbu91tlvihe0@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 18 May 2006 01:07:16 GMT, "Bob_Loblaw"
> <inocentbystander@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
@trndny06:[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
>
> Pull up a turd, we kept one warm for you here in the sewer :-)

LOL!!
Isn't it time someone flushed??
:-)
--
Respectfully, Bob

Al Moran

2006-05-18, 10:21 am

On Wed, 17 May 2006 22:03:59 -0500, LP1330@webtv.net (lp13-30) wrote:

>I just got home after installing a 4 ton 13 SEER Amana heat pump system
>today. Supposedly the AH we used gives a 14 SEER. AH came with a
>piston-- pulled it out and added a TXV externally. After running about
>1/2 hour or more, the suction was about 82 psi, suction line temp 42
>deg. Had to adjust the "factory adjusted" valve. On this one, it only
>took about 2 turns to reach the point where 1/8- 1/4 turn makes 10 diff
>in SH instead of about 8 turns on the older ones. I think the valves are
>Danfoss, but I wouldn't swear to it. I will swear that they are a piece
>of crap. At least mounted extenally they are a hell of a lot easier to
>adjust, and this one was an upflow in a closet, so it was not that bad.
>I am pretty sure the valve on your unit is adjustable, but it is a major
>PITA to get to and to adjust. But if you only have 1-2 deg SH on a TXV
>coil as you said originally, the valve is the problem. Best thing to do,
>as Paul and I both suggested, is to take that POS out, and install a
>good one like a Sporlan externally. Good luck Larry

I suggested that to my service manager.

j.murden

2006-05-18, 12:21 pm

"Al Moran" <almoran@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:q32d62h7546h3dgevg61879tnaujsodna7@4ax.com...
> Go on maintenace on 1 yo 2 ton split goodman in april. outside temp is
> 73 degrees. Head pressure is 150, suction is 85. Compressor is
> copeland scroll. I want to replace compressor but service manager
> tells me it is the txv valve so like a good employee I replace txv.
> Did not solve problem. Outside air temp 90. high side pressure 190,
> suction 90, compressor only drawing 5A. What else can be causing this
> besides the compressor?

Before you replace the compressor, did you put the TXV bulb in ice water to
see if it closes down? I've done the hot water to ice water trick a few
times and been able to free up a TXV.... even a new TXV can be sticky...
also make sure it's sized to condenser and not indoor coil.

Also, if you pump the system down you will see if the compressor can pull a
good vacuum.... close the LL service valve and run until you prove
capability of vacuum, then just open it back up, pretty simple test.

You might have an internal relief stuck open on your scroll, I had one once
on a 2 year old Carrier scroll... but you should be able to hear it if the
bypass is open in the compressor.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-18, 12:21 pm

On Thu, 18 May 2006 10:33:04 -0400, "j.murden"
<j.murden@insightbb.com> wrote:

>
>"Al Moran" <almoran@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:q32d62h7546h3dgevg61879tnaujsodna7@4ax.com...
>
>Before you replace the compressor, did you put the TXV bulb in ice water to

Oh, do try to keep up with things :-)

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

j.murden

2006-05-19, 10:21 am

<.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:h02p62tn53s9ks5339l1uuosman9g1m648@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 18 May 2006 10:33:04 -0400, "j.murden"
> <j.murden@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>
> Oh, do try to keep up with things :-)
>

Sorry Paul, had to get away from all the bashing and slashing around here
for a couple of weeks and actually go out and earn a living... will try
better to catch up.

Jeff

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-19, 11:21 pm

On Wed, 17 May 2006 11:51:31 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

So ? Anything new ?

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Al Moran

2006-05-20, 12:21 am

On Sat, 20 May 2006 02:06:47 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:

>On Wed, 17 May 2006 11:51:31 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>So ? Anything new ?

Service manager went out there today. Turns out, according to him,
system is too small for house. Existing is 2 tons, they took it out
and put in a 2 1/2 ton. He could not explain pressures. Said customer
is happy.

Oscar_Lives

2006-05-20, 1:21 am

"Al Moran" <almoran@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2p1t6291gmjkj50pvl78jkafsr0qtsh34n@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 20 May 2006 02:06:47 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Service manager went out there today. Turns out, according to him,
> system is too small for house. Existing is 2 tons, they took it out
> and put in a 2 1/2 ton. He could not explain pressures. Said customer
> is happy.

Did they replace the thermostat? God help them if they didn't install a new
digital stat.

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-05-20, 1:21 am

On Sat, 20 May 2006 03:06:06 GMT, Al Moran <almoran@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 20 May 2006 02:06:47 GMT, .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>wrote:
>
>
>
>Service manager went out there today. Turns out, according to him,
>system is too small for house. Existing is 2 tons, they took it out
>and put in a 2 1/2 ton. He could not explain pressures. Said customer
>is happy.

Cop out ( his, not yours ).

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Al Moran

2006-05-20, 1:21 am

On Sat, 20 May 2006 03:51:04 GMT, "Oscar_Lives" <nospam@nospam.net>
wrote:

>Did they replace the thermostat? God help them if they didn't install a new
>digital stat.
>

All kidding aside, we use a lot of the talking stats. what a piece of
junk.

Al Moran

2006-05-20, 1:21 am

>
> Cop out ( his, not yours ).

Agreed.

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