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Home > Archive > Architecture > October 2005 > SIP Homes
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| Pierre Levesque, AIA 2005-10-16, 12:21 pm |
| I think it would lead to a bunch of Structural Insulated Panel's flying
around...
"orange tree" <see@site.com> wrote in message
news:s1l4f.39335$0c.38276@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> What do you think about Homes built with (SIP) Structural Insulated Panel
> Homespanels?
>
> Here is their web site : http://www.modular-home-systems.com/SIP-Home.html
>
>
>
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|
| LOL, took a few seconds for that one to sink in.
"Pierre Levesque, AIA"> wrote[color=darkred]
>I think it would lead to a bunch of Structural Insulated Panel's flying
>around...
>
> "orange tree" <see@site.com> wrote in message
> news:s1l4f.39335$0c.38276@tornado.texas.rr.com...
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| Ken S. Tucker 2005-10-16, 9:21 pm |
|
Don wrote:[color=darkred]
> LOL, took a few seconds for that one to sink in.
>
> "Pierre Levesque, AIA"> wrote
We considered SIP's, and it's good in theory if the
home is properly pre-designed. However, (Pro's correct
me if I'm wrong), custom house construction requires a
certain flexibility akin to strategic flexibility.
In my case, the owner didn't know what she wanted for
sure as to electrical and plumbing routing, so I fell
back on conventional stud based construction to maintain
flexibility.
Ken
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| orange tree 2005-10-16, 9:21 pm |
| I have a client that said California is considering requiring New Homes to
be built with SIPs to keep the cost of energy down. Ken have you heard of
this.
Can California's new energy requirement be met with standard construction
methods?
Also why did you consider sips to begin with?
It is my experience that o.s.b. plywood can never hold up to moisture like
regular studs can. It seems to me that using such panels is a disaster
waiting to happen. Just want to know what everyone else thought.
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
>
> Don wrote:
>
> We considered SIP's, and it's good in theory if the
> home is properly pre-designed. However, (Pro's correct
> me if I'm wrong), custom house construction requires a
> certain flexibility akin to strategic flexibility.
> In my case, the owner didn't know what she wanted for
> sure as to electrical and plumbing routing, so I fell
> back on conventional stud based construction to maintain
> flexibility.
> Ken
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| Ken S. Tucker 2005-10-16, 10:21 pm |
|
orange tree wrote:
> I have a client that said California is considering requiring New Homes to
> be built with SIPs to keep the cost of energy down. Ken have you heard of
> this.
No, SIPS would my choice to make a cooky cutter sub-division
along the lines of Levitt town and there's a giant market and
need for that type of housing. Many people like the equality,
found in a "cooky cutter" as everyone is more equal. In my
post WW2 neighbourhood the Vets needed sub-divisions and they
look great today. Once the bushes and trees grow up and the
occupants apply some customization as they can afford, the
initial "drabness" disappears and the neighbourhood ages to
acquire character.
> Can California's new energy requirement be met with standard construction
> methods?
Of course, and using aircraft type studs, is even
better. (I-beams).
> Also why did you consider sips to begin with?
Because for a self assembled home, SIPS, looked very
good, rather like building a model when I was a kid.
You can get components and instructions.
> It is my experience that o.s.b. plywood can never hold up to moisture like
> regular studs can. It seems to me that using such panels is a disaster
> waiting to happen. Just want to know what everyone else thought.
You'll need to get a cladding engineers input on the
virtues of OSB, perhaps Mr. Morrison.
We choose plywood for a couple of bucks more for that
reason, however, that's non-sequitor because all wood
of any sort must be protected.
If you "Orange Tree" are a SIPs sales person, you can
rest assured you have a good product in the circumstances
described above.
Ken
[color=darkred]
>Ken S. Tucker wrote:
>
| |
|
| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> custom house construction requires a
> certain flexibility akin to strategic flexibility.
Very true.
I'd like to here Paul's comments on this.
His crib is awesome.
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| 3D Peruna 2005-10-17, 1:21 am |
|
> We considered SIP's, and it's good in theory if the
> home is properly pre-designed. However, (Pro's correct
> me if I'm wrong), custom house construction requires a
> certain flexibility akin to strategic flexibility.
> In my case, the owner didn't know what she wanted for
> sure as to electrical and plumbing routing, so I fell
> back on conventional stud based construction to maintain
> flexibility.
> Ken
Finished my SIP house this summer. Since plumbing, in our neck of the
woods, on an outside wall is a no-no, that wasn't an issue. The panels
also come pre-"drilled" for electrical wiring. It didn't need to be
thought out any more than in a normal house. My only problem was the
electrical contractor was an idiot and the problems we had would have
been had on a conventionally framed house, too. I wouldn't let the
"inflexibility" be an issue. SIP construction is much more flexible and
forgiving than most people realize.
I do know, however, that there seems to be some research by Oakridge
National Labs that may recommend different alternative construction
methods for different climates. For instance, it appears that ICF above
grade construction is better suited for the southwest than the upper
midwest due to the differences in temperatures. SIPs appear to be more
suited for the upper midwest than perhaps ICF construction (above
grade). In either case, ICF or SIP construction seems to be
significantly better performing than conventional construction.
Just my 2 1/2 cents.
| |
| Bob Morrison 2005-10-17, 12:21 pm |
| In a previous post 3D Peruna wrote...
> Finished my SIP house this summer. Since plumbing, in our neck of the
> woods, on an outside wall is a no-no, that wasn't an issue. The panels
> also come pre-"drilled" for electrical wiring. It didn't need to be
> thought out any more than in a normal house. My only problem was the
> electrical contractor was an idiot and the problems we had would have
> been had on a conventionally framed house, too. I wouldn't let the
> "inflexibility" be an issue. SIP construction is much more flexible and
> forgiving than most people realize.
>
>
I've done the structural design on a couple of SIPS houses and find them
quite easy to work with as Paul has noted.
The key is to have a floor plan designed around the knowledge that SIPS
will be used: plumbing on interior walls is a good example. Another would
be that roof spans be kept below 16 feet unless beams are added to support
the SIPS.
Both the recent SIPS projects combined hot water radiant heat with SIPS.
Ground floor was slab on grade.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
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| Robert Klob 2005-10-17, 8:21 pm |
| I did a home about a year ago and we used ICF for the walls and SIPs for the
roof system. The contractor really liked the whole system and the struct.
engineer said it was easy to calc since everything allready had its own
tables. We will wait and see if all the marketing hype for energy
effeciency is correct after the family has been in the home for a year or
two.
Currently, I have 5 homes in design that are going to have ICF walls. The
technology has really changed over the last few years and I am a big fan of
it now. Esp. here in Phoenix with our balmy 115 degree July's. The systems
advertise R-50 for a 4" grout wall and R-70 for a foam panel applied roof.
The system works great for the heat and the cold and I would assume that it
would work well in high wind areas since the whole system is tied togethor
with steel and concrete - the hurricanes would just rip the roof off and
suck out the innards but the outside would remain standing.
-Robert
"Bob Morrison" <bob@ _remove_rlmorrisonengr.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dbd568580d7b9a9899e2@news.west.earthlink.net...
> In a previous post 3D Peruna wrote...
> I've done the structural design on a couple of SIPS houses and find them
> quite easy to work with as Paul has noted.
>
> The key is to have a floor plan designed around the knowledge that SIPS
> will be used: plumbing on interior walls is a good example. Another would
> be that roof spans be kept below 16 feet unless beams are added to support
> the SIPS.
>
> Both the recent SIPS projects combined hot water radiant heat with SIPS.
> Ground floor was slab on grade.
>
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
| |
|
| "Robert Klob"> wrote
> - the hurricanes would just rip the roof off and
> suck out the innards but the outside would remain standing.
Just?
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| orange tree 2005-10-18, 1:21 am |
| I think IFC panels could be the wave of the future. So i recommend all you
designers learn to use them. I think I'll build my new Home with this
system Thank you very much for your information Robert.
But IFC is not a SIP. I have a client that want to use SIPs. And I think
the plywood will not hold up like 2x4s say in 20 years. So after you
finish paying for the mortage, Your might have a rotted out walls and roof.
Roofers typically replace sections of roof decking on reroof jobs. So how
do you do this if you use SIP panels on your roof?
| |
| 3D Peruna 2005-10-18, 11:21 am |
|
"orange tree" <see@site.com> wrote in message
news:ky_4f.42299$Q53.25680@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>I think IFC panels could be the wave of the future. So i recommend all you
> designers learn to use them. I think I'll build my new Home with this
> system Thank you very much for your information Robert.
>
>
> But IFC is not a SIP. I have a client that want to use SIPs. And I think
> the plywood will not hold up like 2x4s say in 20 years. So after you
> finish paying for the mortage, Your might have a rotted out walls and
> roof.
> Roofers typically replace sections of roof decking on reroof jobs. So how
> do you do this if you use SIP panels on your roof?
Do you do any research? Do you have any understanding of construction
materials? Construction methods? On what basis do you think that your
walls and roof will be rotted out after 20 years? Do you understand proper
detailing to ensure structural longevity? Do you provide these most
important details on the plans you draw for people (regardless of
construction methodology)?
Do some research and you might discover that ICFs have some drawbacks, too.
You may also discover that the choice between ICFs and SIPs may be climate
driven. You might also learn that insulated pre-cast might be better than
both (and it might not be).
The reason roof sections are replaces is because the roofing job wasn't done
right the first time...
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| Kris Krieger 2005-10-18, 7:21 pm |
| orange tree <see@site.com> wrote in
news:ky_4f.42299$Q53.25680@tornado.texas.rr.com:
> I think IFC panels could be the wave of the future. So i recommend
> all you designers learn to use them. I think I'll build my new Home
> with this system Thank you very much for your information Robert.
>
>
> But IFC is not a SIP. I have a client that want to use SIPs. And I
> think the plywood will not hold up like 2x4s say in 20 years. So
> after you finish paying for the mortage, Your might have a rotted out
> walls and roof. Roofers typically replace sections of roof decking on
> reroof jobs. So how do you do this if you use SIP panels on your
> roof?
The one example showed the insulated panels being used in a place using
metal (steel?) studs.
How much more expensive are steel studs as opposed to 2X4 ones (which of
course as actually less than 2"X4")?
- K.
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