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| RicodJour 2005-12-12, 8:21 pm |
| eds wrote:
>
> That was the Harvard Design Studio space. The only place I've ever seen an
> AC unit set in an operating door to an office and discharging into the main
> space =)
Well, it's either that or someone would have to go around pissing on
everyone's shoes personally. Too labor intensive.
Gund Hall is a nightmare - hard to believe it's an architecture school.
Similar to Dante's Inferno and its levels of Hell.
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette...08/15-tray.html
I love this quote: "You can look down and see everybody's work. The
intention is to erase privacy, to make a statement that architecture
should be publicly presented and publicly defended."
They left out, "And it helps make people even more miserable during
their charette's with the cacophany and inadequate HVAC. It's all
about breaking their spirit so we can mold them more easily."
R
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"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:otmnf.3089$nm.122@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Tim"> wrote
>
> That model was trash before it ever got pimped.
> I'd pay to see that student get pimped! ;-)
>
That was the Harvard Design Studio space. The only place I've ever seen an
AC unit set in an operating door to an office and discharging into the main
space =)
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"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:1134432772.312251.64400@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> eds wrote:
>
> Well, it's either that or someone would have to go around pissing on
> everyone's shoes personally. Too labor intensive.
>
> Gund Hall is a nightmare - hard to believe it's an architecture school.
> Similar to Dante's Inferno and its levels of Hell.
> http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette...08/15-tray.html
> I love this quote: "You can look down and see everybody's work. The
> intention is to erase privacy, to make a statement that architecture
> should be publicly presented and publicly defended."
>
> They left out, "And it helps make people even more miserable during
> their charette's with the cacophany and inadequate HVAC. It's all
> about breaking their spirit so we can mold them more easily."
>
> R
>
Agreed, that's why I'm glad I was poor and went to BAC ;-)
eds
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| Adam Weiss 2005-12-14, 12:21 am |
| eds wrote:
<<snipped>>
<<snipped>>
[color=darkred]
>
> Agreed, that's why I'm glad I was poor and went to BAC ;-)
> eds
>
>
Why is it that the parent universities of top ranked architecture
schools always seem to neglect those architecture schools?
A friend of mine at Rice lost half the drawings for a project when the
air handler directly above his desk exploded. He couldn't move his desk
away because there wasn't any room - they crammed 18 of us into a studio
space meant for 12.
I heard of a guy who got a nasty cut in studio at Columbia University,
only to find then that the nearest first aid kit was in a different
building!
Contrast that with architecture schools that aren't world renowned.
It's totally different. The university of Houston takes good care of
its architecture school. Apparently the BAC does, too - EDS can correct
me if I misspoke.
Is it that schools like Harvard, Columbia, and Rice think that they have
the name recognition so who cares if the architecture school is a trash
heap? Or maybe they're so caught up in spending big dollars to offer
visiting lecturer positions to black cape architects they can't take
care of their buildings and students? (Black cape architects are almost
never good professors to start - they're often too arrogant and they're
never available to students because they're too busy) Is it something
else? Sheer administrative ignorance perhaps (I long suspected that of
Rice's former president - Malcom Gillis).
It'd be nice to think that this is just a case of the grass being
greener on the other side of the fence. But the post from Eds suggests
that's not the case.
In any case, you've touched a nerve. Can you tell?
| |
|
| "Adam Weiss"> wrote
> black cape architects
Batman, AIA designed Wayne Manor, complete with a hidden garage door and a
cool cave with all the bells and whistles.
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| RicodJour 2005-12-14, 1:21 am |
| eds wrote:
> Agreed, that's why I'm glad I was poor and went to BAC ;-)
When did you serve your time?
R
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|
| "RicodJour"> wrote
> eds wrote:
>
> When did you serve your time?
Remember when Stegosauruses were iron fisted professors? LOL
(I'm just kiddin' eds.)
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| 3D Peruna 2005-12-14, 12:21 pm |
|
"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:1134534779.201213.184180@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> eds wrote:
>
> When did you serve your time?
>
> R
Wash. U.
It was a dump...in fact, the first time I visited (several years before grad
school), it was so bad, I though I was in an inner city high school. It
wasn't even on my list of school's to attend.
I'm still a bit fuzzy on why I picked the place...
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| RicodJour 2005-12-14, 1:21 pm |
| 3D Peruna (s) wrote:
> "RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
> news:1134534779.201213.184180@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Wash. U.
>
> It was a dump...in fact, the first time I visited (several years before grad
> school), it was so bad, I though I was in an inner city high school. It
> wasn't even on my list of school's to attend.
>
> I'm still a bit fuzzy on why I picked the place...
I'm a bit fuzzy on why you are answering a question directed at eds.
You guys aren't alter egos, are you? I like to know which personality
of the schizophrenia I'm talking to! Anyway, thanks for the info. ;)
R
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| 3D Peruna 2005-12-14, 1:21 pm |
|
"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:1134579232.566092.281830@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> 3D Peruna (s) wrote:
>
> I'm a bit fuzzy on why you are answering a question directed at eds.
> You guys aren't alter egos, are you? I like to know which personality
> of the schizophrenia I'm talking to! Anyway, thanks for the info. ;)
Sorry...didn't mean to get in on your private chat room...
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| P Fritz 2005-12-14, 1:21 pm |
|
"3D Peruna" <w!h#a$r%o^l&d@w!e#i$r%d&n*e(s)s.com> wrote in message
news:QbXnf.8007$ES.6736@fe05.lga...
>
> "RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
> news:1134534779.201213.184180@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Wash. U.
>
> It was a dump...in fact, the first time I visited (several years before
grad
> school), it was so bad, I though I was in an inner city high school. It
> wasn't even on my list of school's to attend.
>
> I'm still a bit fuzzy on why I picked the place...
>
>
University of Detroit was like that........where I got my second degree.
Being a Jesuit university, Tution was high, and it wasn't spent on the
buildings.
My first was from a large state technical institute in Atlanta...I'm a
ramblin wrek. State money......it was amazing what was built each year.
Including a new Architecture Building when I was a sophmore.
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"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:1134534779.201213.184180@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> eds wrote:
>
> When did you serve your time?
>
> R
>
1960's, In the days of the saintly Dean Archangelo Cassieri who was dean
from 1940 (?) until 1992. The finest teacher I have ever had. He taught me
to see.
I taught design studios there from 1982 until 1996. My co-teacher still is
there and I occasionally hang out in the place. Of course BAC only pays the
teachers a stipend ($120 per semester when I was there) to keep costs down.
Incidentally Gund Hall at Harvard was built about the time Graham Gund (Big
name around here) was in school. His Dad provided the money. It was supposed
to be the great space for ideas to move about..blah...blah...blah. If you
want bad spaces go see Paul Rudolph's Art and Architecture Building at
Yale-yuk!
EDS
| |
|
| > > > When did you serve your time?
grad
[color=darkred]
> I'm a bit fuzzy on why you are answering a question directed at eds.
I'm not fuzzy at all on why you think a "where" statement is in answer to a
"when" question.
| |
|
| > "RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
> news:1134534779.201213.184180@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> 1960's, In the days of the saintly Dean Archangelo Cassieri who was
> dean from 1940 (?) until 1992. The finest teacher I have ever had. He
> taught me to see.
> I taught design studios there from 1982 until 1996. My co-teacher
> still is there and I occasionally hang out in the place. Of course
> BAC only pays the teachers a stipend ($120 per semester when I was
> there) to keep costs down.
> Incidentally Gund Hall at Harvard was built about the time Graham
> Gund (Big name around here) was in school. His Dad provided the
> money. It was supposed to be the great space for ideas to move
> about..blah...blah...blah. If you want bad spaces go see Paul
> Rudolph's Art and Architecture Building at Yale-yuk!
> EDS
Art and Architecture Building - 39 different levels on seven stories
Woo I'm glad I didn't have to cut those sections :-)
And if the interior shots are anything to go by it looks like it could get
pretty gloomy in there
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q...G=Search+Images
| |
|
| > > 1960's, In the days of the saintly Dean Archangelo Cassieri who was
Only a saint?
> And if the interior shots are anything to go by it looks like it could get
> pretty gloomy in there
BAC seems fairly conducive to troglodytism, itself.
| |
| Adam Weiss 2005-12-15, 1:22 am |
| P Fritz wrote:
> "3D Peruna" <w!h#a$r%o^l&d@w!e#i$r%d&n*e(s)s.com> wrote in message
> news:QbXnf.8007$ES.6736@fe05.lga...
>
>
> grad
>
>
>
> university of Detroit was like that........where I got my second degree.
> Being a Jesuit university, Tution was high, and it wasn't spent on the
> buildings.
>
> My first was from a large state technical institute in Atlanta...I'm a
> ramblin wrek. State money......it was amazing what was built each year.
> Including a new Architecture Building when I was a sophmore.
>
>
>
The Architecture Building at Rice is so overcrowded that as a student
there I honestly considered buying a van, fitting the back of it out
with my computer and a drafting board, painted "studio-moving" on the
side of it and working there instead.
Can you believe it? I'd have rathered to work "IN A VAN-DOWN BY THE
RIVER" than in the architecture building at Rice University! :-)
| |
| 3D Peruna 2005-12-15, 11:21 am |
|
"Adam Weiss" <aw722@blockspam.org> wrote in message
news:43A0F1DC.5000306@blockspam.org...
>
>
> The Architecture Building at Rice is so overcrowded that as a student
> there I honestly considered buying a van, fitting the back of it out with
> my computer and a drafting board, painted "studio-moving" on the side of
> it and working there instead.
>
> Can you believe it? I'd have rathered to work "IN A VAN-DOWN BY THE
> RIVER" than in the architecture building at Rice University! :-)
Yes... There are a few problems. First, most architects never get rich
enough to endow their alma mater with enough money to build a decent
building. So, the architecture schools are at the mercy of rich "patron"
who they can talk into giving enough money for the school. Second, most
patrons (and I am painting with a broad brush here) don't like what most
architectural professors at architecture schools like. Not only that, but
most campuses have a style (collegiate gothic being the current choice for
most college campuses) and it's unlikely that the architecture school
supports the campus style. Lastly, and I think this has more to do with it
than anything, is that there is considerable tension between the design
faculty and the school as to the design of any architecture school (we saw
this at our school). The design faculty had some input into the most hated
buildings on campus (in fact, one concrete monstrosity almost cost as much
to demolish as it did to build its replacement). The university doesn't
trust the design faculty (and I can certainly understand why). Since most
of the design faculty has no real experience, all of their favored designs
and architects are those who push the boundries of style and materials.
Universities have learned this and steer away from letting the design
faculty have any input, and they then do what they can to mess up the
project because nobody asked them...
Actually, it's a pretty good insight as to why design schools suck, too.
P
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|
|
"gruhn" <gruhn@deletehwb.com> wrote in message
news:211of.33$Vd6.716@news.uswest.net...
>
> Only a saint?
>
>
> BAC seems fairly conducive to troglodytism, itself.
>
>
Architects are troglodytes. Maybe we should all live under bridges;-)
BAC was the result of a competition in 1968 (brutal concrete), and
unfortunately the winner was built.
eds
| |
|
| > buildings on campus (in fact, one concrete monstrosity almost cost as much
> to demolish as it did to build its replacement). The university doesn't
See, it was a strong building. ;-)
| |
| P Fritz 2005-12-15, 3:21 pm |
|
"3D Peruna" <w!h#a$r%o^l&d@w!e#i$r%d&n*e(s)s.com> wrote in message
news:qxfof.16396$tQ7.11680@fe04.lga...
>
> "Adam Weiss" <aw722@blockspam.org> wrote in message
> news:43A0F1DC.5000306@blockspam.org...
with[color=darkred]
>
>
> Yes... There are a few problems. First, most architects never get rich
> enough to endow their alma mater with enough money to build a decent
> building. So, the architecture schools are at the mercy of rich "patron"
> who they can talk into giving enough money for the school. Second, most
> patrons (and I am painting with a broad brush here) don't like what most
> architectural professors at architecture schools like. Not only that, but
> most campuses have a style (collegiate gothic being the current choice for
> most college campuses) and it's unlikely that the architecture school
> supports the campus style. Lastly, and I think this has more to do with it
> than anything, is that there is considerable tension between the design
> faculty and the school as to the design of any architecture school (we saw
> this at our school). The design faculty had some input into the most
hated
> buildings on campus (in fact, one concrete monstrosity almost cost as much
> to demolish as it did to build its replacement). The university doesn't
> trust the design faculty (and I can certainly understand why). Since most
> of the design faculty has no real experience, all of their favored designs
> and architects are those who push the boundries of style and materials.
> Universities have learned this and steer away from letting the design
> faculty have any input, and they then do what they can to mess up the
> project because nobody asked them...
>
> Actually, it's a pretty good insight as to why design schools suck, too.
>
> P
Damn, you described my alma mater to a tee. For a time, they would
not let a graduate of the institute be hired to design anything on the
campus.
>
>
| |
| Adam Weiss 2005-12-15, 10:21 pm |
| 3D Peruna wrote:
> "Adam Weiss" <aw722@blockspam.org> wrote in message
> news:43A0F1DC.5000306@blockspam.org...
>
>
>
>
> Yes... There are a few problems. First, most architects never get rich
> enough to endow their alma mater with enough money to build a decent
> building. So, the architecture schools are at the mercy of rich "patron"
> who they can talk into giving enough money for the school. Second, most
> patrons (and I am painting with a broad brush here) don't like what most
> architectural professors at architecture schools like.
All true.
There's also alot of inter-departmental politics, and no small amount of
administrative complacency at play. From what I've heard, the Rice
School of Architecture's overcrowding is largely the result of a
decision by deans Lars Lerup and John Casbarian not to accept a
hand-me-down building from the business school. Using this hand-me-down
building would have required breaking up the architecture school between
two buildings, but with a little creativity it could have been made to
work, and it would have allowed the school to grow and its students to
have enough space to work. Unfortunately, Lerup and Casbarian are
holding out for a new building of their own - which, as you rightly
pointed out, is a long shot at best.
> Not only that, but
> most campuses have a style (collegiate gothic being the current choice for
> most college campuses) and it's unlikely that the architecture school
> supports the campus style. Lastly, and I think this has more to do with it
> than anything, is that there is considerable tension between the design
> faculty and the school as to the design of any architecture school (we saw
> this at our school). The design faculty had some input into the most hated
> buildings on campus (in fact, one concrete monstrosity almost cost as much
> to demolish as it did to build its replacement). The university doesn't
> trust the design faculty (and I can certainly understand why). Since most
> of the design faculty has no real experience, all of their favored designs
> and architects are those who push the boundries of style and materials.
> Universities have learned this and steer away from letting the design
> faculty have any input, and they then do what they can to mess up the
> project because nobody asked them...
In my view, architecture schools shouldn't be in expensive buildings.
The architecture building should be comfortable, of course, with a
working HVAC system and enough room for students to work. But for the
floors, cheap sealed concrete will do the trick. Walls? Cheap enough
to be torn out every 2 years or so and reconfigured, after they've been
mutilated with push pins. Ceilings? Why bother? Leave it open to
structure. Glass? If it's cheap glass. The reason is that
architecture students will beat the hell out of the building they're in.
They'll spill god knows what on the floor, like art students, and
worse, they'll rip gyp board off in order to see how the wall is
constructed, they'll drill into the floors to build lofts for
themselves, the list goes on.
That this is antithetical to most larger universities is, as you
suggest, a big part of the problem.
>
> Actually, it's a pretty good insight as to why design schools suck, too.
>
Design schools suck because they're too divorced from reality. Too many
schools have allowed the study of "arquitektuur" to almost completely
eclipse and push out the teaching of honest to God "architecture".
But that's for a different thread, actually a thread we had here on
alt.architecture a few months ago....
| |
|
| > BAC was the result of a competition in 1968 (brutal concrete), and
> unfortunately the winner was built.
I'll trade the BAC for City Hall.
| |
| RicodJour 2005-12-16, 4:21 am |
| eds wrote:
> "RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
>
> 1960's, In the days of the saintly Dean Archangelo Cassieri who was dean
> from 1940 (?) until 1992. The finest teacher I have ever had. He taught me
> to see.
> I taught design studios there from 1982 until 1996. My co-teacher still is
> there and I occasionally hang out in the place. Of course BAC only pays the
> teachers a stipend ($120 per semester when I was there) to keep costs down.
I had a couple of friends go there just before you started teaching.
Sat in on a couple of critiques - seemed like people enjoyed being
there.
Paying taxes on that is adding insult to injury! I just checked out
BAC's tuition - not too bad. I guess they do pass on the savings
(otherwise known as your earnings!)
> Incidentally Gund Hall at Harvard was built about the time Graham Gund (Big
> name around here) was in school. His Dad provided the money. It was supposed
> to be the great space for ideas to move about..blah...blah...blah. If you
> want bad spaces go see Paul Rudolph's Art and Architecture Building at
> Yale-yuk!
Alrighty, I will. Never visited Yale, but drive by it all the time -
one of my favorite back roads.
R
| |
|
| "Adam Weiss"> wrote
> In my view, architecture schools shouldn't be in expensive buildings. The
> architecture building should be comfortable, of course, with a working
> HVAC system and enough room for students to work. But for the floors,
> cheap sealed concrete will do the trick. Walls? Cheap enough to be torn
> out every 2 years or so and reconfigured, after they've been mutilated
> with push pins. Ceilings? Why bother? Leave it open to structure.
> Glass? If it's cheap glass. The reason is that architecture students
> will beat the hell out of the building they're in. They'll spill god knows
> what on the floor, like art students, and worse, they'll rip gyp board off
> in order to see how the wall is constructed, they'll drill into the floors
> to build lofts for themselves, the list goes on.
Maybe they should just erect a steel framework and then over the course of 5
years the students would build their image what a school building should be.
Then in the last 1/4 of the last year they have to demo the whole thing and
get it ready for the next class. It would give them hands on experience in
how systems work.
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