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AutoCAD alternatives?
|
|
| Markus Jakas 2005-06-16, 2:34 pm |
| Here is another question:
Do the people here have any experiences with alternatives to Autocad LT?
I've tried IntelliCAD 2001 myself and while it was easy to learn, it was _very_
slow. I took a beginners course in ArchiCAD, but A) I'd rather use
something that resembles Autocad more, B) it' is way too expensive.
I figure, if I use SketchUp for 3D, the cad-program does not really need
much 3D functionality.
AutoCad is the standard, but if I can get away with useing a cheaper
program, I'll postpone contributeing to Autodesk's purse.
TIA,
M.J.
| |
| Gary Matczak 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
| Autocad is THE best, most universal CADD tool out there,...............get
used to it, and its cost,...................
"Markus Jakas" <majakas@mail.student.oulu.fi> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0506081935000.1110@paju.oulu.fi...
quote:
> Here is another question:
>
> Do the people here have any experiences with alternatives to Autocad LT?
> I've tried IntelliCAD 2001 myself and while it was easy to learn, it was
_very_
quote:
> slow. I took a beginners course in ArchiCAD, but A) I'd rather use
> something that resembles Autocad more, B) it' is way too expensive.
>
> I figure, if I use SketchUp for 3D, the cad-program does not really need
> much 3D functionality.
>
> AutoCad is the standard, but if I can get away with useing a cheaper
> program, I'll postpone contributeing to Autodesk's purse.
>
> TIA,
> M.J.
| |
| Bob Morrison 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
| In a previous post Gary Matczak says...[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Autocad is THE best, most universal CADD tool out there,...............get
> used to it, and its cost,...................
>
>
> "Markus Jakas" <majakas@mail.student.oulu.fi> wrote in message
> news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0506081935000.1110@paju.oulu.fi...
> _very_
Autocrap is the 800 lb gorilla, but is not the BEST.
The CAD program you use depends a great deal on what you want to do with
it. In my case I only have need for a 2D program that is easy to learn
and inexpensive. I use VisualCadd for my day to day drafting needs.
For the $3500 it costs to buy full blown Autocrap I can buy 10 seats of
VCadd.
What can't I do with VCadd? Well, I have a little trouble "round-
tripping" (no snide remarks please) from DWG to VCD back to DWG when
there are multiple X-Refs. But, who cares? I'm usually taking the
architect's drawings an modifying them to suit my purposes and only
sending back PDF's or PLT files. On occasion I will send back a few
layers of structural stuff, but that doesn't happen very often.
My first "real" CAD program was Generic Cadd. It took me less than a
day to learn VCadd because nearly all of the commands are the same.
Since that time VCadd has added Reference Frames (X-Refs) and image
importing routines.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
| |
| Richard MacIntyre 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
|
"Gary Matczak"
quote:
> Autocad is THE best, most universal CADD tool out there,...............get
> used to it, and its cost,...................
I'd really love to tell you where I'd like you to shove your ACAD, Gary.
| |
| Richard MacIntyre 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
|
"Gary Matczak" <gjmaia@erie.net> wrote in message
news:11aekjdsgquu8c6@corp.supernews.com...
quote:
> Autocad is THE best, most universal CADD tool out there,...............get
> used to it, and its cost,...................
Of course, some noncompliance cases involve the outright disregard of
agreements by companies trying to cut costs for expensive software,
particularly CAD programs, which cost upwards of $2,000 to $3,000 per seat.
Other scofflaws flaunt what they consider to be unfair and restrictive
license agreements. For example, some agreements give software vendors the
right to enter a business to perform an audit whenever it suspects a
violation. "Some of this stuff is sickening," says one architect in the
Northeast.
"When you use the term 'piracy,' you're making an analogy that's way over
the top," says Bradley Kuhn, executive director of the Free Software
Foundation, a Boston-based group that advocates the development of freely
distributed "open source" software, such as the popular Linux operating
system. He believes current licensing policies and "tip lines" foster
distrust among coworkers, and that a new business model built on freely
distributed source code is the answer to copyright infringement problems.
Kuhn concedes the handful of free CAD programs now under development are not
yet ready for prime time, but he believes that situation could change if
more professionals supported the free software movement. "If consumers took
half the money they're paying for CAD licenses every year and gave it to
some free software project, [open source versions] could be developed and
people wouldn't have to pay for licenses anymore," Kuhn says.
-- http://www.softwaremetering.com/20030029.htm
| |
|
| "Richard MacIntyre"> wrote
quote:
> Kuhn concedes the handful of free CAD programs now under development are
> not yet ready for prime time, but he believes that situation could change
> if more professionals supported the free software movement. "If consumers
> took half the money they're paying for CAD licenses every year and gave it
> to some free software project, [open source versions] could be developed
> and people wouldn't have to pay for licenses anymore," Kuhn says.
>
> -- http://www.softwaremetering.com/20030029.htm
For me, I can't afford the down time to learn new software.
I already have enormous time invested in learning ACAD and frankly the
learning is ongoing.
(I don't think you can learn everything Acad has to offer, you learn enough
to do your job and then only incidental learning there after)
Second, the compatability issue, between
plotters/printers/mice/scanners/etc.
Third, I already bought the software and I need to justify the cost by using
it.
The yearly upgrades to Acad LT are not too hard for me to bear.
All of this is my perspective only and others may disagree for various
reasons.
| |
| graham 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
| It depends on what you do. Over the last 20 years I've used many - but
for last few years Vectorworks has been my favourite - at under =A3700
in UK - less than a quarter of A'cad's cost -
http://
www.cadpointdirect.co.uk/webstore/c...ng=3Dvectorwor=
ks
it seems to offer best balance of good Autocad compatibility, price,
features, and ease of use. ( Like most new CAD - a difficult first week
or two - but then possible to work much faster than many CAD
programmes) They have a demo available -so why not give it a try?
http://www.nemetschek.net/
| |
|
| > "If consumers took
quote:
> half the money they're paying for CAD licenses every year and gave it to
> some free software project, [open source versions] could be developed and
> people wouldn't have to pay for licenses anymore,"
If people paid for stuff that was free then the free stuff would be as good
as the stuff they pay for and they wouldn't have to pay any more.
If people paid, they wouldn't have to pay.
| |
|
| Bob, i have a question regarding VCadd, if i had and excel sheet (OLE)
inserted in my drawing. and if i had to rotate
my Plot 90 Degrees. would the OLE rotate with the plot? i've had problems in
Autocad where the OLE would not
rotate with the plot. thanks
LouR
==========================================
"Bob Morrison" <bob@_REMOVE_rlmorrisonengr.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d11052a846726d698990b@news.west.earthlink.net...
quote:
> In a previous post Gary Matczak says...
there,...............get[vbcol=seagreen]
LT?[vbcol=seagreen]
was[vbcol=seagreen]
need[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> Autocrap is the 800 lb gorilla, but is not the BEST.
>
> The CAD program you use depends a great deal on what you want to do with
> it. In my case I only have need for a 2D program that is easy to learn
> and inexpensive. I use VisualCadd for my day to day drafting needs.
> For the $3500 it costs to buy full blown Autocrap I can buy 10 seats of
> VCadd.
>
> What can't I do with VCadd? Well, I have a little trouble "round-
> tripping" (no snide remarks please) from DWG to VCD back to DWG when
> there are multiple X-Refs. But, who cares? I'm usually taking the
> architect's drawings an modifying them to suit my purposes and only
> sending back PDF's or PLT files. On occasion I will send back a few
> layers of structural stuff, but that doesn't happen very often.
>
>
> My first "real" CAD program was Generic Cadd. It took me less than a
> day to learn VCadd because nearly all of the commands are the same.
> Since that time VCadd has added Reference Frames (X-Refs) and image
> importing routines.
>
>
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
| |
| Richard MacIntyre 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
|
"Don"
quote:
> "Richard MacIntyre"
>
> For me, I can't afford the down time to learn new software.
> I already have enormous time invested in learning ACAD and frankly the
> learning is ongoing.
> (I don't think you can learn everything Acad has to offer, you learn
> enough to do your job and then only incidental learning there after)
> Second, the compatability issue, between
> plotters/printers/mice/scanners/etc.
> Third, I already bought the software and I need to justify the cost by
> using it.
> The yearly upgrades to Acad LT are not too hard for me to bear.
> All of this is my perspective only and others may disagree for various
> reasons.
I hear what you're saying and can empathize... you seem to have a classic
case of lock-in.
ADesk has your balls in their hands.
| |
| Richard MacIntyre 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
|
"gruhn"
quote:
>
> If people paid for stuff that was free then the free stuff would be as
> good
> as the stuff they pay for and they wouldn't have to pay any more.
>
> If people paid, they wouldn't have to pay.
Too simple...
For one, you as a hypothetical ACAD user, pay in ways you don't necessarily
have to. As an example, read what you snipped.
| |
| Richard MacIntyre 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
|
"Markus Jakas"
quote:
> AutoCad is the standard, but if I can get away with useing a cheaper
> program,
Along with the links/apps below, you can also search for CAD at
Sourceforge.net or Freshmeat and of course Google, where I snapped these
shots:
Octree CAD for Architects. (I think it's open source)
http://www.octree.de/
http://www.octree.de/html/frames/eng/f_info.htm
Q-CAD (the GPL Community edition). It's intuitive, free, open source and
outputs
to DXF. It's 2D. (although you have to compile the sources, which I have to
learn myself if I want to use it (or maybe there's a compiled Community ver.
out there)
'BlenderCAD' seems to be a script that extends Blender, but its development
seems bogged. Looks promising, though, alongside Blender. I'm keeping an eye
on it. Poke around Blender's site.
PythonCAD. A recent release (last May, 2005). Site was down when I last
checked, but worth a look if/when it comes back.
FreeCAD:
http://www.askoh.com/freecad/
VarkonCAD'. If recalled it went open source a couple of years ago (if it
wasn't already).
http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/help/varkon/man.htm
With more Googling-- and over time-- more open source/libre CAD apps might
be found, too (LignumCAD PowerCAD?).
....Oh ya, there's also the American Army-made and recently-open-sourced BRL
CAD. It's supposed to kick for many things, including solid-modelling
(boolean), but there may be no dimensioning(?) unless there's a
plugin//script add-on for that.
BTW, if you're into military software like that, and "geomatics" or GIS, you
might also be interested in GRASS-- ostensibly, the 3rd biggest open source
project on the planet.
For freehand, there's also Sketchboard, which I've briefly played around
with and still have on my hddrive. It might similar to Sketchup, if less
tomatoey.
For landscape generation that imports elevation and/or sattelite maps or
data, there's also this weird Japanese app called Kashmir. I've tried it
briefly too, and looks cool. It's been translated into English, (maybe the
manual too?).
quote:
> I'll postpone contributeing to Autodesk's purse.
I like your attitude.
| |
|
| "Richard MacIntyre"> wrote
quote:
> "Don"
>
> I hear what you're saying and can empathize... you seem to have a classic
> case of lock-in.
> ADesk has your balls in their hands.
One ball and part of the sack. ;-)
Its not as bad as it was when I was using full blown Acad.
I'm using Acad LT now, version 2004, and the upgrade cost is tolerable.
But my whole role may change in the next year or so and I'll leave all this
Acad stuff behind.
| |
|
| Richard, how do all of these SW's mesh with the popular plotters, HP, etc.?
When I first configured my HP450C with Acad R12 about 7 years ago it took me
about a week to get a satisfactory output.
Outputting to my plotter is essential.
"Richard MacIntyre" <fc039@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:d8a69o$t6r$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
quote:
>
> "Markus Jakas"
>
> Along with the links/apps below, you can also search for CAD at
> Sourceforge.net or Freshmeat and of course Google, where I snapped these
> shots:
>
> Octree CAD for Architects. (I think it's open source)
> http://www.octree.de/
> http://www.octree.de/html/frames/eng/f_info.htm
>
> Q-CAD (the GPL Community edition). It's intuitive, free, open source and
> outputs
> to DXF. It's 2D. (although you have to compile the sources, which I have
> to
> learn myself if I want to use it (or maybe there's a compiled Community
> ver.
> out there)
>
> 'BlenderCAD' seems to be a script that extends Blender, but its
> development
> seems bogged. Looks promising, though, alongside Blender. I'm keeping an
> eye
> on it. Poke around Blender's site.
>
> PythonCAD. A recent release (last May, 2005). Site was down when I last
> checked, but worth a look if/when it comes back.
>
> FreeCAD:
> http://www.askoh.com/freecad/
>
> VarkonCAD'. If recalled it went open source a couple of years ago (if it
> wasn't already).
> http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/help/varkon/man.htm
>
> With more Googling-- and over time-- more open source/libre CAD apps might
> be found, too (LignumCAD PowerCAD?).
>
> ...Oh ya, there's also the American Army-made and recently-open-sourced
> BRL
> CAD. It's supposed to kick for many things, including solid-modelling
> (boolean), but there may be no dimensioning(?) unless there's a
> plugin//script add-on for that.
>
> BTW, if you're into military software like that, and "geomatics" or GIS,
> you
> might also be interested in GRASS-- ostensibly, the 3rd biggest open
> source project on the planet.
>
> For freehand, there's also Sketchboard, which I've briefly played around
> with and still have on my hddrive. It might similar to Sketchup, if less
> tomatoey.
>
> For landscape generation that imports elevation and/or sattelite maps or
> data, there's also this weird Japanese app called Kashmir. I've tried it
> briefly too, and looks cool. It's been translated into English, (maybe the
> manual too?).
>
>
> I like your attitude.
>
| |
| Bob Morrison 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
| In a previous post LouR says...
quote:
> Bob, i have a question regarding VCadd, if i had and excel sheet (OLE)
> inserted in my drawing. and if i had to rotate
> my Plot 90 Degrees. would the OLE rotate with the plot? i've had problems in
> Autocad where the OLE would not
> rotate with the plot. thanks
>
Lou:
That may be true for VCadd as well. However, the plotter/printer
interface is much easier to use in VCadd, so it is possible to set up a
plotter to "AutoRotate" and this seems to work just fine. In other
words, I can print a 24x36 containing OLE objects on 24-inch roll paper
with not much difficulty.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
| |
| Bob Morrison 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
| In a previous post Don says...
quote:
> Richard, how do all of these SW's mesh with the popular plotters, HP, etc.?
> When I first configured my HP450C with Acad R12 about 7 years ago it took me
> about a week to get a satisfactory output.
> Outputting to my plotter is essential.
>
Don, et.al.:
I can tell you that VCadd uses the normal printer driver for the
equipment you have. It does not require a separate ACad driver. In
addition, it will sense whatever system printers you have installed
including those over the network.
Finally, the way I use VCadd is WYSIWYG, That is, I set line widths on
screen so that there is no such thing as a "pen table". On-screen
widths may be temporarily turned off while drawing and then turn back on
again for printing.
For all my "normal" drawings I simply load a style sheet that contains
layer names and layer properties. Each layer contains only one color
and one line width, but may have several line types.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
| |
|
| "Bob Morrison"> wrote
quote:
> Finally, the way I use VCadd is WYSIWYG, That is, I set line widths on
> screen so that there is no such thing as a "pen table". On-screen
> widths may be temporarily turned off while drawing and then turn back on
> again for printing.
>
> For all my "normal" drawings I simply load a style sheet that contains
> layer names and layer properties. Each layer contains only one color
> and one line width, but may have several line types.
Right there is where you start to lose me.
I stumbled around with that line color = line weight thing way back when and
it never really clicked with me.
I learned about Polylines and the rest is history.
I really do work with WYSIWYG because I change the width of the polylines I
use (1", 1/2", 1/4" widths), and I use them exclusively. Other than double
'lines' for window muntins, I always draw with Polylines and I change colors
as I see fit.
Colors are only for my own clarification/use and client interaction, when I
plot I change all layers to grayscale.
What does VCADD cost, Bob?
| |
| Bob Morrison 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
| In a previous post Don says...
quote:
> Right there is where you start to lose me.
> I stumbled around with that line color = line weight thing way back when and
> it never really clicked with me.
>
I struggled with that too in Generic Cadd. VCadd uses the on-screen
line width similar to what you are doing with polylines. Like you I use
colors for my own convenience. Color has nothing to do with line
weight. The style sheet thing is just a way to get standardized set of
layer names and layer properties into a drawing. This is similar to a
"Template" drawing in ACad.
quote:
> Colors are only for my own clarification/use and client interaction, when I
> plot I change all layers to grayscale.
> What does VCADD cost, Bob?
>
>
VCadd makes the "grayscale" part easy: you simply check a box on the
printer dialog to "Print All Colors to Black"
List Price for VCadd is $395.00 Download or $450.00 with CD and Manual
If you have LT or Generic Cadd the "Upgrade" price is $109.95 for
Download or $124.95 with CD
http://www.tritools.com/Purchase.asp
There is a 30 day fully functional trial version at
http://www.tritools.com/v5_demo.htm
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
| |
|
| Thanks Bob, I'll take a look.
"Bob Morrison" <bob@_REMOVE_rlmorrisonengr.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d133cd0e99f8270989911@news.west.earthlink.net...
quote:
> In a previous post Don says...
>
> I struggled with that too in Generic Cadd. VCadd uses the on-screen
> line width similar to what you are doing with polylines. Like you I use
> colors for my own convenience. Color has nothing to do with line
> weight. The style sheet thing is just a way to get standardized set of
> layer names and layer properties into a drawing. This is similar to a
> "Template" drawing in ACad.
>
>
> VCadd makes the "grayscale" part easy: you simply check a box on the
> printer dialog to "Print All Colors to Black"
>
> List Price for VCadd is $395.00 Download or $450.00 with CD and Manual
>
> If you have LT or Generic Cadd the "Upgrade" price is $109.95 for
> Download or $124.95 with CD
>
> http://www.tritools.com/Purchase.asp
>
> There is a 30 day fully functional trial version at
>
> http://www.tritools.com/v5_demo.htm
>
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
| |
| Markus Jakas 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
| First off, thanks for all the links!
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Bob Morrison wrote:
quote:
> In a previous post Don says...
> I struggled with that too in Generic Cadd. VCadd uses the on-screen
> line width similar to what you are doing with polylines. Like you I use
> colors for my own convenience. Color has nothing to do with line
> weight. The style sheet thing is just a way to get standardized set of
> layer names and layer properties into a drawing. This is similar to a
> "Template" drawing in ACad.
....
I'm quite used to the color=line width thing myself. It all boils down to
having a few pen style configurations on file. Of course, it might take a
while to nail down the proper widhts. But I've stuck with it, eventhough
Acad allows for "width by layer" nowadays.
So Generic CADD uses the color=width printing style, then?
And yes, I'll get around to trying the demos, evetually:-). They are
already on my hd.
quote:
> VCadd makes the "grayscale" part easy: you simply check a box on the
> printer dialog to "Print All Colors to Black"
So, if I want to mix grayscale with colors, I have to change the layer
settings? Is there a tool for saving diffeent layer states as in Acad,
then?
Any TurboCAD user here? It seems to have some 3d capabilities, even in he
cheaper version. But I think the interface is more icon-driven, I prefer
using the command-line myseslf. One more to try.
There is QCad for Windows, too: http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html. No
sources, though. So youll have to pay a smallish fee. I guess this would
be the starting point.
The possibilites are adding up!
| |
|
| Thanks for your advice Bob.
LouR
"Bob Morrison" <bob@_REMOVE_rlmorrisonengr.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d1277ed3f6a5d5998990f@news.west.earthlink.net...
quote:
> In a previous post LouR says...
problems in[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Lou:
>
> That may be true for VCadd as well. However, the plotter/printer
> interface is much easier to use in VCadd, so it is possible to set up a
> plotter to "AutoRotate" and this seems to work just fine. In other
> words, I can print a 24x36 containing OLE objects on 24-inch roll paper
> with not much difficulty.
>
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
| |
| Bob Morrison 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
| In a previous post Markus Jakas says...
quote:
> So, if I want to mix grayscale with colors, I have to change the layer
> settings? Is there a tool for saving diffeent layer states as in Acad,
> then?
>
Yes. That is the "Style Sheet" thing I've been talking about. You can
save only layer names/properties, or any combination of text & dimension
settings, hatch settings, etc.
For instance I have a style sheet named "Layers.sty" that has only the
layer names, line colors, and line weights for my most commonly used
stuff.
I open VCadd, load the style sheet (this can be automated with a script
to run on VCadd Startup). I could load a second style sheet that sets
font height and dimension properties. Or I could combine the
"Layers.sty" style sheet with a style sheet for drawing scale and call
it '1"=1'-0",sty'. this would load my typical layers and set fonts for
a typical 1"-1'-0" printed scale.
There is a third party add-on called "Scalz" that has a lot of neat
tools including one that sets drawing scale. The cost is about $50.00
and well worth it.
Finally, I think the regular posters in this group would get a kick out
the on-line VCadd Users Group. We are a pretty eclectic bunch with lots
of different interests, but all are passionate about VCadd. Any newbie
posting a question there will generally have an answer or answers within
15 minutes
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
| |
| Michael \(LS\) 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
|
"gruhn" <gruhn@deletehwb.com> wrote in message
news:nc_pe.29$Fe6.1528@news.uswest.net...
quote:
and[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> If people paid for stuff that was free then the free stuff would be as
good
quote:
> as the stuff they pay for and they wouldn't have to pay any more.
>
> If people paid, they wouldn't have to pay.
>
>
Yeah, you gotta love the logic of "open source" zealots!!!
| |
| Richard MacIntyre 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
|
"Don"
quote:
> Richard, how do all of these SW's mesh with the popular plotters, HP,
> etc.?
> When I first configured my HP450C with Acad R12 about 7 years ago it took
> me about a week to get a satisfactory output.
> Outputting to my plotter is essential.
The short answer is I don't know; the slightly longer might be that soft and
hardware has evolved a bit since then, and any worth their salt-- open or
closed-- should be friendlier.
| |
| Matthew Erickson 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
| Richard MacIntyre wrote:
quote:
> Octree CAD for Architects. (I think it's open source)
> http://www.octree.de/
> http://www.octree.de/html/frames/eng/f_info.htm
From Octree: "Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this
software and its documentation for NON-COMMERCIAL purposes and without
fee is hereby granted provided that this copyright notice appears in all
copies." (emphasis original)
I didn't see any place for someone to use it for commercial purposes.
I'm assuming use in an architectural firm counts as commercial?
Also, it's a timedemo. You need to occasionally get a new auth code for
their beta.
Also, it looks like it'll never leave "beta", as the Windows page
proudly exclaims that it will work on a "PC unter Windows-95, Windows-98
and Windows-NT", while the "Binary Dependant Files" for Linux are for
Linux 2.2 and 2.0. Nobody uses either of those kernel versions anymore;
most distros nowadays ship with 2.6.
It's a dead project.
quote:
> Q-CAD (the GPL Community edition). It's intuitive, free, open source and
> outputs
> to DXF. It's 2D. (although you have to compile the sources, which I have to
> learn myself if I want to use it (or maybe there's a compiled Community ver.
> out there)
From QCad's website: "Includes script to build everything from scratch
under any Linux / Unix system. Does not contain scripting module and
polyline support. Sources are usually released a few months after the
professional editions. Requirements: Qt developer edition 3.3.4, C++
compiler, GNU tools."
As long as you don't use scripts (possibly major) or polylines (I never
use them in ACAD), you're set on any *nix. I'm booting up my Linux box
now and I'll come back to you as to ease of install.
quote:
> FreeCAD:
> http://www.askoh.com/freecad/
It's a mechanical engineering CAD. About as useful as Pro/E.
Don't get me wrong, I love and use FOSS as much as possible. But I
honestly tried to use OSS for architecture, and I was less than
impressed. YMMV.
-Matt
| |
|
| "Matthew Erickson"> wrote
quote:
> Don't get me wrong, I love and use FOSS as much as possible. But I
> honestly tried to use OSS for architecture, and I was less than impressed.
> YMMV.
So, are you saying that when the financial incentive is removed the quality
declines?
If so, does this in anyway remind you of the heirarchy struggle for most of
the 20th century in a large middle asian country?
| |
| Matthew Erickson 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
| Don wrote:
quote:
> "Matthew Erickson"> wrote
>
>
>
> So, are you saying that when the financial incentive is removed the quality
> declines?
I dunno if I'm being trolled, so in the event that I am...
*hands Don a cookie*
If not:
I'm saying that open source software develops well when there's a niche
that can be filled by someone who knows what's going on in said niche,
and can start a program to do something with it. Witness: Linux, GCC,
Apache, Firefox, etc.
Most CS geeks I know couldn't care less really about why I'd like a
great architectural CAD suite for my computer. With FOSS, it's more
along the lines of "when the interest is removed the quality declines."
Read "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric Raymond
(http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/) for more insight.
Then again, I may just have been severely trolled, so enjoy your cookie 
- Matt
| |
| Richard MacIntyre 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
|
"Matthew Erickson"
quote:
> Richard MacIntyre wrote:
>
> From Octree: "Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this
> software and its documentation for NON-COMMERCIAL purposes and without fee
> is hereby granted provided that this copyright notice appears in all
> copies." (emphasis original)
>
> I didn't see any place for someone to use it for commercial purposes. I'm
> assuming use in an architectural firm counts as commercial?
>
> Also, it's a timedemo. You need to occasionally get a new auth code for
> their beta.
>
> Also, it looks like it'll never leave "beta", as the Windows page proudly
> exclaims that it will work on a "PC unter Windows-95, Windows-98 and
> Windows-NT", while the "Binary Dependant Files" for Linux are for Linux
> 2.2 and 2.0. Nobody uses either of those kernel versions anymore; most
> distros nowadays ship with 2.6.
>
> It's a dead project.
That may possibly be why I neglected to include it in previous
recommendations I'd made... But I might take another look just to waste
time.
quote:
>
> From QCad's website: "Includes script to build everything from scratch
> under any Linux / Unix system. Does not contain scripting module and
> polyline support. Sources are usually released a few months after the
> professional editions. Requirements: Qt developer edition 3.3.4, C++
> compiler, GNU tools."
>
> As long as you don't use scripts (possibly major) or polylines (I never
> use them in ACAD), you're set on any *nix. I'm booting up my Linux box
> now and I'll come back to you as to ease of install.
By all means, and thanks the added info.
quote:
> Don't get me wrong, I love and use FOSS as much as possible. But I
> honestly tried to use OSS for architecture, and I was less than impressed.
> YMMV.
To be honest, I've been irritated by the whole CAD scene in general...
ACAD's too expensive, maybe too bloated, and it's proprietary; Q-CAD is
half-proprietary/half-open and they aren't intending to work 3D into it
anytime soon, if ever; and some projects are mere gleams in (a)
programmer(s) eye(s), dead, bogged or abandoned... I might take a second
search for the previously-elusive Varkon... (any info on that, btw, Matt?)
Hey open source CAD programmers! Is there something out there that I've
missed, or can you get your show on the road?!
| |
|
| "Matthew Erickson"> wrote
quote:
> Don wrote:
>
> I dunno if I'm being trolled, so in the event that I am...
> *hands Don a cookie*
When I troll I usually end up with a Snook or better.
quote:
> With FOSS, it's more along the lines of "when the interest is removed the
> quality declines."
I think you're mistaken. Simple fact, nobody wants to work for nothing.
| |
| 3D Peruna 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
|
quote:
>
> Hey open source CAD programmers! Is there something out there that I've
> missed, or can you get your show on the road?!
He're the problem... Architects, in general, are idiots. Most have
barely gotten over the idea that they can't draw by hand any more. And,
because of its inertia, they've gone the AutoCAD way. Most architects
aren't programmers and those who might be both are good at one or the
other, not both. There have been several "alternatives" over the course
of the years...list whatever you like, but none have had the ability to
overcome the AutoCAD. F=ma. AutoCAD has lots of m, even it it doesn't
have lots of a. The only way to overcome it is with some combination
that beats what AutoCAD has...and, by the way, doesn't require any
retraining on the part of the architect.
So... to paraphrase... it ain't gonna happen.
| |
| Richard MacIntyre 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
|
"3D Peruna"
quote:
>
>
> He're the problem... Architects, in general, are idiots. Most have
> barely gotten over the idea that they can't draw by hand any more. And,
> because of its inertia, they've gone the AutoCAD way. Most architects
> aren't programmers and those who might be both are good at one or the
> other, not both. There have been several "alternatives" over the course
> of the years...list whatever you like, but none have had the ability to
> overcome the AutoCAD. F=ma. AutoCAD has lots of m, even it it doesn't
> have lots of a. The only way to overcome it is with some combination that
> beats what AutoCAD has...and, by the way, doesn't require any retraining
> on the part of the architect.
>
> So... to paraphrase... it ain't gonna happen.
I'm inclined to agree with some of your contentions... As for your
paraphrase, I hope it's wrong.
And there may be some glimmer of hope, as architects aren't the only CAD
users. ;)
Incidentally, I have been working with Art of Illusion (in part as a "me and
open source" test case scenerio, and also as a professional tool) for
roughly 2 1/2 years now, and in its current beta release, its developer has
finally integrated an important spacial quality that some, including myself,
have been pining for for some time-- namely; where new objects created from
old ones remain where they intuitively should be in the 3D model space.
To me, this is a significant step toward being able to use the program more
effectively for more spacially-relative work, such as with architecture, as
an important example.
For now, I can work around its current lack of definable units (with a
calculator by my side), and might be able to import some pre-dimensioned
flat plans (as flat lines & curves) (as DXF and/or SVG files) into it for
some 3D modelling, like extruding, surfing(skinning), lathing and boolean,
as well of course as the usual texturing, lighting and animating.
Its SVG/Vector import/export and vector and/or wireframe
rendering/animating/effects may also be handy.
| |
| Gary Matczak 2005-06-16, 2:35 pm |
| thanks for being so polite,...................and you are a professional?
"Richard MacIntyre" <fc039@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:d88vi7$9fo$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
quote:
>
> "Gary Matczak"
there,...............get[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I'd really love to tell you where I'd like you to shove your ACAD, Gary.
>
>
| |
|
| What is it about Acad that makes people revert to emotionalism?
Its just a tool, doodz, nothing more nothing less.
FWIW, I will NEVER get used to overpriced stuff and yes, Acad is wayyy over
priced.
Having said that, I doubt I will ever be involved in any other 2d cad
program because of reasons I mentioned in another post.
"Gary Matczak" <gjmaia@erie.net> wrote in message
news:11b2uo4r0pqs7c8@corp.supernews.com...
quote:
> thanks for being so polite,...................and you are a professional?
>
>
> "Richard MacIntyre" <fc039@ncf.ca> wrote in message
> news:d88vi7$9fo$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
> there,...............get
>
>
| |
| Richard MacIntyre 2005-06-17, 11:35 pm |
|
"Gary Matczak"
quote:
> thanks for being so polite,...
lol... anytime.
quote:
> ................and you are a professional?
lol..."you're not your job", says the best graffiti I've yet seen
scrawled...
But, ok, you want professional? Here's a context:
You and I are warm & fuzzy partners-- very warm, very fuzzy-- out for a
well-deserved lunch...
Over lunch, I start bitching about the new ACAD seats we've had to install,
how much it costs, etc., and you respond like you have here, and so do I,
after a small sip of my cranberry vodka. As I'm just beginning a tangent on
the virtues of open source, your cell goes off to the consternation of
fellow diners closeby. That shuts me up of course, so while you're haggling
on the phone with a client, who's going to absorb the costs of our new ACAD
licenses, I flag down another pink lady for you, and it's back to work in
60.
quote:
> "Richard MacIntyre" <fc039@ncf.ca> wrote in message
> news:d88vi7$9fo$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
> there,...............get
>
>
| |
|
| "Richard MacIntyre"> wrote
quote:
> But, ok, you want professional? Here's a context:
> You and I are warm & fuzzy partners-- very warm, very fuzzy-- out for a
> well-deserved lunch...
> Over lunch, I start bitching about the new ACAD seats we've had to
> install, how much it costs, etc., and you respond like you have here, and
> so do I, after a small sip of my cranberry vodka. As I'm just beginning a
> tangent on the virtues of open source, your cell goes off to the
> consternation of fellow diners closeby. That shuts me up of course, so
> while you're haggling on the phone with a client, who's going to absorb
> the costs of our new ACAD licenses, I flag down another pink lady for you,
> and it's back to work in 60.
LOL
Richard said, very warm, very fuzzy.
| |
| Richard MacIntyre 2005-06-17, 11:35 pm |
|
"Don"
quote:
> "Richard MacIntyre"
>
> LOL
>
> Richard said, very warm, very fuzzy.
In an alternate reality, Richard reminded Gary that the subject of this
thread is AutoCAD alternatives, to which alternate-reality-Gary responded,
"The alternative to AutoCAD is AutoCAD.".
|
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