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| In alt.architecture , Ken S. Tucker wrote :
Hi Ken, tried to email you,
just wanted to let you know of a
meeting in Kelowna for Building Designers.
email me
ron at mcneildesigns dot bc dot ca
ttyl
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| Ken S. Tucker 2005-09-13, 5:21 pm |
|
Ron wrote:
> In alt.architecture , Ken S. Tucker wrote :
>
> Hi Ken, tried to email you,
> just wanted to let you know of a
> meeting in Kelowna for Building Designers.
> email me
> ron at mcneildesigns dot bc dot ca
> ttyl
Thanks Ron, I'm try that.
I am at, dynamics@uniserveX.com
eXit.
Ken
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| Ken S. Tucker 2005-09-14, 2:21 pm |
|
Ron wrote:
> In alt.architecture , Ken S. Tucker wrote :
>
> Hi Ken, tried to email you,
> just wanted to let you know of a
> meeting in Kelowna for Building Designers.
> email me
> ron at mcneildesigns dot bc dot ca
> ttyl
Ron I'll post here for the group.
I noticed from your web-site, you built a pond
using EPDM liner. I have a flat 24x24 roof and
I'm wondering how you did with EPDM, also wonder
why you chose that over PVC?
TIA
Ken
| |
|
| In alt.architecture , Ken S. Tucker wrote :
>
> Ron wrote:
>
> Ron I'll post here for the group.
> I noticed from your web-site, you built a pond
> using EPDM liner. I have a flat 24x24 roof and
> I'm wondering how you did with EPDM, also wonder
> why you chose that over PVC?
> TIA
> Ken
Not sure reasons for a pond are same for pond, but,
I chose epdm 60mil, vs 45, from advice in pond NG's, usually longer
lasting under UV, but mostly better against rough substrate.
Btw, against the pond gurus advice, and to spend less than half I bought
it at a roofing supply rather than pond supply! Never seemed to have any
detrimental effect on water quality...
We do have the odd person doing a roof in epdm over torch-on membrane
but it really needs some UV protection I understand.
Btw, better get something on that roof soon, could have rain anyday and
flurries within weeks :-))
ron
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| "Ron"> wrote
> Btw, better get something on that roof soon, could have rain anyday and
> flurries within weeks :-))
I saw Ken a little while ago at Lowes, he was in the Blue Tarp aisle. ;-)
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| Ken S. Tucker 2005-09-15, 2:21 pm |
|
Don wrote:
> "Ron"> wrote
Yes, thanks for the reply Ron, we follow Rec.Ponds.
[color=darkred]
> I saw Ken a little while ago at Lowes, he was in the Blue Tarp aisle. ;-)
LOL, yes, WHITE tarp, 30x30 $42 already done.
| |
|
| In alt.architecture , Ken S. Tucker wrote :
>
> Don wrote:
>
> Yes, thanks for the reply Ron, we follow Rec.Ponds.
>
>
> LOL, yes, WHITE tarp, 30x30 $42 already done.
WHITE !!! , crap that is CAMO colour up there <BFG>
ron
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| Ken S. Tucker 2005-09-21, 5:21 am |
|
Ron wrote:
> In alt.architecture , Ken S. Tucker wrote :
>
>
>
> WHITE !!! , crap that is CAMO colour up there <BFG>
> ron
Hey Ron, and everyone else...
I was told S-traps are banned in BC, only P-traps
can be used! I sold thousands of S-traps in ontario
in the 70's. The're supposedly banned because of
siphonage issues, what do guys know about that?
TIA
Ken
| |
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| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> I was told S-traps are banned in BC, only P-traps
> can be used! I sold thousands of S-traps in ontario
> in the 70's. The're supposedly banned because of
> siphonage issues, what do guys know about that?
What are they?
I spec ST6224 and PA28 straps all the time.
| |
|
| In alt.architecture , Ken S. Tucker wrote :
> Hey Ron, and everyone else...
> I was told S-traps are banned in BC, only P-traps
> can be used! I sold thousands of S-traps in ontario
> in the 70's. The're supposedly banned because of
> siphonage issues, what do guys know about that?
> TIA
> Ken
>
To tell the truth I've only ever heard of P traps, never heard of S traps,
maybe they have never been legal in BC.
In fact its only again recently that you could legally put a sink in a
island too. they were banned for a number of years for poor venting
solution.
When I'm back in my town I'll touch base with a couple of plumbers and ask
if they have ever known them.
ttyl from sunny cold edmonton !
longing for mild victoria soon.:-)
ron
| |
|
| In alt.architecture , Ken S. Tucker wrote :
> Hey Ron, and everyone else...
> I was told S-traps are banned in BC, only P-traps
> can be used! I sold thousands of S-traps in ontario
> in the 70's. The're supposedly banned because of
> siphonage issues, what do guys know about that?
> TIA
> Ken
>
To tell the truth I've only ever heard of P traps, never heard of S traps,
maybe they have never been legal in BC.
In fact its only again recently that you could legally put a sink in a
island too. they were banned for a number of years for poor venting
solution.
When I'm back in my town I'll touch base with a couple of plumbers and ask
if they have ever known them.
ttyl from sunny cold edmonton !
longing for mild victoria soon.:-)
ron
| |
| Charles Jones 2005-09-21, 2:21 pm |
| In article <n1bYe.2336$q1.36@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, one-if-
by-land@concord.com says...
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> What are they?
> I spec ST6224 and PA28 straps all the time.
I'm thinking he's talking plumbing, not tie-downs.
--
Charles Jones (charlesj@frii.com)
Loveland, Colorado
AIM: LovelandCharles
ICQ: 29610755
MSN: charlesj68@passport.com
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2005-09-21, 4:21 pm |
|
Ron wrote:
> In alt.architecture , Ken S. Tucker wrote :
>
> To tell the truth I've only ever heard of P traps, never heard of S traps,
> maybe they have never been legal in BC.
>
> In fact its only again recently that you could legally put a sink in a
> island too. they were banned for a number of years for poor venting
> solution.
>
> When I'm back in my town I'll touch base with a couple of plumbers and ask
> if they have ever known them.
>
> ttyl from sunny cold edmonton !
> longing for mild victoria soon.:-)
> ron
Thanks all...
Here's a fairly good discussion...
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
From: m...@verizon.net (Mike Urig) - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 15:33:33 GMT
Local: Sun, Jul 8 2001 8:33 am
Subject: "S" trap - outlawed?
Live and Learn. In our case it wouldn't be an
issue, oh well.
Ken
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|
| LOL
I misread Kens post.
S traps go down, P traps go horizontal.
"Ron" <spam@SPAM.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:1127319607.93097ed8ab22e058102d394c9116665e@teranews...
> In alt.architecture , Ken S. Tucker wrote :
>
> To tell the truth I've only ever heard of P traps, never heard of S traps,
> maybe they have never been legal in BC.
>
> In fact its only again recently that you could legally put a sink in a
> island too. they were banned for a number of years for poor venting
> solution.
>
> When I'm back in my town I'll touch base with a couple of plumbers and ask
> if they have ever known them.
>
> ttyl from sunny cold edmonton !
> longing for mild victoria soon.:-)
> ron
| |
|
| I saw that, too late.
The thing is, the last time Ken posted about his cabin he was asking about
the roof.
So I automatically thought he was talkin about.....
"Charles Jones" <charlesj@frii.com> wrote in message
news:11j33g2c4nl3s09@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <n1bYe.2336$q1.36@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, one-if-
> by-land@concord.com says...
>
> I'm thinking he's talking plumbing, not tie-downs.
>
> --
> Charles Jones (charlesj@frii.com)
> Loveland, Colorado
> AIM: LovelandCharles
> ICQ: 29610755
> MSN: charlesj68@passport.com
| |
|
| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote[color=darkred]
Where are they going to siphon from?
Why is an S more prone to siphoning than a P?
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2005-09-22, 3:21 pm |
|
Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> Where are they going to siphon from?
> Why is an S more prone to siphoning than a P?
Here's my understanding...ah guessin'...
Suppose you have a full bath tub on the 2nd floor.
Pull the plug and the water falls 30' down to the
basement via drain pipe. Keeping in mind a 33'
water column == 1 atmosphere of pressure a lot of
suction can be created behind the water literally
suckin (or siphoning) the water out of the S-trap.
Guess that process depends on how it's vented.
Anyway a P-trap is vented *above* the bottom of
the P-trap presumeably where it's horizontal then
it goes down the drain pipe, that's certain to
break the suction.
Does Dr. Don concur with the prognosis :-).
Ken
| |
|
| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> Here's my understanding...ah guessin'...
> Suppose you have a full bath tub on the 2nd floor.
> Pull the plug and the water falls 30' down to the
> basement via drain pipe. Keeping in mind a 33'
> water column == 1 atmosphere of pressure a lot of
> suction can be created behind the water literally
> suckin (or siphoning) the water out of the S-trap.
> Guess that process depends on how it's vented.
>
> Anyway a P-trap is vented *above* the bottom of
> the P-trap presumeably where it's horizontal then
> it goes down the drain pipe, that's certain to
> break the suction.
>
> Does Dr. Don concur with the prognosis :-).
<adjusts stethoscope and clears throat>
Ah-hem
Your sentence above about 'depends on how its vented' is the key I suppose.
A vacuum will draw from the path of least resistance, so if the vent is
larger in diameter than the drainpipe itself, no siphoning will occur.
Now if a squirrel gets its nutz stuck in the vent........all bets are
off......
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2005-09-22, 4:21 pm |
|
Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> <adjusts stethoscope and clears throat>
> Ah-hem
> Your sentence above about 'depends on how its vented' is the key I suppose.
> A vacuum will draw from the path of least resistance, so if the vent is
> larger in diameter than the drainpipe itself, no siphoning will occur.
> Now if a squirrel gets its nutz stuck in the vent........all bets are
> off......
Yeah, I guess if you're venting *below* the top of
the S-trap then some water could/would flow into the
vent, which might create a debris accumulation, (theory
of GUNK & CRUD) particularily if the drainage is slow.
Also, relevent to you're Indiana project, I'm informed
that I should heat or insulate a vent that goes out
the side of a building then up, because the humidity
will condense in the vent in winter and plug it.
BTW, our 24x24 flat roof was approved using 2x6 @ 16"oc
over 9' 6" span for THIS area, which is quite dry, right
on the edge. Max snow load ~ 30#/sq ft.
Indiana would be way tougher, I'd guess nearer to
60#/sq ft minimum, which is about same as a foot
of ice == well packed snow + freezing rain.
Ken
| |
|
| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> Yeah, I guess if you're venting *below* the top of
> the S-trap then some water could/would flow into the
> vent, which might create a debris accumulation, (theory
> of GUNK & CRUD) particularily if the drainage is slow.
I don't think thats legal here.
The vent has to be above the traps.
Been awhile since I've done any riser drawings.
> Also, relevent to you're Indiana project, I'm informed
> that I should heat or insulate a vent that goes out
> the side of a building then up, because the humidity
> will condense in the vent in winter and plug it.
I'm starting to read up on some of this cold weather heating stuff.
Something I read last night said the hardest part is eliminating hot and
cold spots throughout the home.
The article dealt with wood burning stoves with heat exchangers and
circulated hot water.
All this stuff may sound ho-hum to all ya'll nawthuners but us crackers only
use hot water to wash our goat smellin' asses, sometimes. ;-)
> BTW, our 24x24 flat roof was approved using 2x6 @ 16"oc
> over 9' 6" span for THIS area, which is quite dry, right
> on the edge. Max snow load ~ 30#/sq ft.
Now, was that a load bearing wall at the 9'-6" span or a post and beam
setup?
(trying to remember the floorplan, I'm pretty certain you had a center
wall.)
> Indiana would be way tougher, I'd guess nearer to
> 60#/sq ft minimum, which is about same as a foot
> of ice == well packed snow + freezing rain.
If I build anything where it snows it will have a steep roof pitch and
probably a metal roofing (standing seam or 5-V, etc.)
Maybe even some of those hot wires at the eaves.
I think Pierre mentioned them at one time.
Hey 3d Paul, did you go with the metal on your house?
I seem to remember you mentioning red?
Other folks dissed it but I liked it.
| |
| 3D Peruna 2005-09-23, 1:21 pm |
|
"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:7YIYe.2558$vw6.1313@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Hey 3d Paul, did you go with the metal on your house?
> I seem to remember you mentioning red?
> Other folks dissed it but I liked it.
I went with standing seam on a portion of the house, asphalt on the rest
(for budget reasons). It's brown...the red just wasn't right. Still, it
looks mighty fine.
P
| |
| Night_Seer 2005-09-23, 1:21 pm |
| 3D Peruna wrote:
>
>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:7YIYe.2558$vw6.1313@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>
>
>
> I went with standing seam on a portion of the house, asphalt on the rest
> (for budget reasons). It's brown...the red just wasn't right. Still, it
> looks mighty fine.
>
> P
>
>
>
I demand jpgs! (um...please)
--
Edgar
| |
| 3D Peruna 2005-09-23, 2:21 pm |
|
"Night_Seer" <ecamacho4@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4334260e$0$49009$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
> 3D Peruna wrote:
>
> I demand jpgs! (um...please)
>
> --
> Edgar
Give me a bit and I'll update the website...
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2005-09-23, 3:21 pm |
|
Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> I don't think thats legal here.
> The vent has to be above the traps.
> Been awhile since I've done any riser drawings.
>
>
> I'm starting to read up on some of this cold weather heating stuff.
> Something I read last night said the hardest part is eliminating hot and
> cold spots throughout the home.
We had good luck with forced air on low speed + oil
+ wood + electricity + ceiling fans.
The electric heat was at my desk and in the bathroom,
to give a bit more regional heat.
> The article dealt with wood burning stoves with heat exchangers and
> circulated hot water.
Check carefully the wood burning appliance code, they can be
be quite strict in some areas. It's designed for morons.
In ontario we know people who had to remove their wood-
stove to renew their fire insurance when the code was
updated at the request of manufactures to sell more
crappy woodstoves. (We have a patent on an ultra efficient
woodstove, which we used).
If you going to use wood, it becomes a hobby,
you really have to enjoy it, but the stoves location
and installion needs to be well planned. Things
like carting wood in from a storage location and
removing the ash are important. A lot of people put
a fireplace or woodstove in the middle of a shag
carpeted room. Looked good on paper but not very
practical.
>
> Now, was that a load bearing wall at the 9'-6" span or a post and beam
> setup?
> (trying to remember the floorplan, I'm pretty certain you had a center
> wall.)
Good memory, yup, simple center supporting wall design.
>
> If I build anything where it snows it will have a steep roof pitch and
> probably a metal roofing (standing seam or 5-V, etc.)
Sure but snow clings, it comes down and freezes to the
roof, and it's amazing how even a steep roof can get
a build up. I doubt you can assume it will slide off.
> Maybe even some of those hot wires at the eaves.
Well that's for ice bridging, you shouldn't need it.
Ask further if you want.
Ken
| |
| Bob Morrison 2005-09-23, 4:21 pm |
| In a previous post Ken S. Tucker wrote...
> If you going to use wood, it becomes a hobby,
> you really have to enjoy it, but the stoves location
> and installion needs to be well planned. Things
> like carting wood in from a storage location and
> removing the ash are important. A lot of people put
> a fireplace or woodstove in the middle of a shag
> carpeted room. Looked good on paper but not very
> practical.
>
I agree with Ken on this. It takes quite a bit of time to fell the trees,
cut to them to stove length, split and stack the wood under cover. Even
if you have the wood delivered, you still have to stack it under cover.
I figure we go through about 4 cords of alder in a winter. For those who
don't know how big a pile that is, think 16'x8'x4'. If I used hardwood
the amount of wood used would be smaller, but I have lots of alder because
it grows like weeds. In fact that's what I think of them as -- really big
weeds. An alder will grow to 60 feet and 20 inches in diameter in 50
years then fall over and die.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
| |
| RicodJour 2005-09-23, 4:21 pm |
|
Bob Morrison wrote:
>
> An alder will grow to 60 feet and 20 inches in diameter in 50
> years then fall over and die.
That happens to people, too...well, maybe 6' tall, but the rest ir
about right.
R
| |
|
|
RicodJour wrote:
> Bob Morrison wrote:
>
> That happens to people, too...well, maybe 6' tall, but the rest ir
> about right.
>
Somebody give this guy a rimshot. LOL
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2005-09-23, 5:21 pm |
|
Bob Morrison wrote:
> In a previous post Ken S. Tucker wrote...
>
> I agree with Ken on this. It takes quite a bit of time to fell the trees,
> cut to them to stove length, split and stack the wood under cover. Even
> if you have the wood delivered, you still have to stack it under cover.
>
> I figure we go through about 4 cords of alder in a winter. For those who
> don't know how big a pile that is, think 16'x8'x4'. If I used hardwood
> the amount of wood used would be smaller, but I have lots of alder because
> it grows like weeds. In fact that's what I think of them as -- really big
> weeds. An alder will grow to 60 feet and 20 inches in diameter in 50
> years then fall over and die.
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
That Alder sounds creosote, needs a bit of care, we
used some blue powder to clean the pipes.
Heating our 1500 sq ft building in central ontario for
a typical winter required 6 cords (6 x 4'x4'x8') of a
mix of maple and silver birch, seaoned, as the primary
heat, add $100 for oil and $100 for electricity.
We paid ~$50/cord = $300 delivered, seemed quite fair.
We stored that under a 14x24 carport deal, and used a
nice looking shopping cart (made of wood) to move it in
and out. We also placed maple on the stove top for the
aroma, wow that makes you hungry. Silver birch aroma
makes people...ah...romantic.
We find it hard to run a stove at 30F, just a bit to
warm, but at 15F it really start workin' well, and at 0F
ours is really efficient, and improved as temperatures
dropped from there.
I'll bet the group misc.rural would be really helpful.
My dad preferred anthracite coal in his Muskoka cabin.
4 lumps kept us warm all night. Coal is great, every
body used to use that, but the bituminous fumes sulfur
gases so I'd use anthracite.
Regards
Ken
| |
| Bob Morrison 2005-09-23, 6:21 pm |
| In a previous post Ken S. Tucker wrote...
> That Alder sounds creosote, needs a bit of care, we
> used some blue powder to clean the pipes.
>
I just pay a chimney sweep to come in once a year. In fact he's due here
Monday. He's very familiar with the stove since he's the guy who
installed it.
Our stove is a Lopi without catalytic converter. When run properly it
puts out just 4 grams of particulates per hour. We usually run it wide
open for about half an hour each morning, then let it just perk along
during the day. Load it full at night and there is usually still some
heat coming off it in the morning. I clean out the ash and then fire it
up again.
As you mentioned earlier, ash management is critical. We put ours in a
steel garbage can outdoors. When it is full, I empty it around my fruit
trees.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
| |
|
| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> In ontario we know people who had to remove their wood-
> stove to renew their fire insurance
Thats an aspect I hadn't considered prior to reading about it on a site the
other day.
If it ain't one thing its another.
| |
|
| "Bob Morrison"> wrote
> it grows like weeds. In fact that's what I think of them as -- really big
> weeds.
After all, its just a weed,
that turns into a flower,
in your mind. ~~~~
| |
|
| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> 4 lumps kept us warm all night.
That sounds cool.
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2005-09-25, 5:21 pm |
|
Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> That sounds cool.
Well if wood is a bit of a pain, good coal should
be available in the Indiana area...think about it,
A coal fired generator makes electricity, uses wires
over an expensive fragile grid, then provides you with
the convenience of electric heat. But if your're not
Scottish or German, you probably won't care for wood
heating much...it's an acquired taste.
OTOH, a small wood stove can use coal and keep ya
warm when the power goes out.
The basic emergency requirements are heat and potable
water in any season that can be used indefinitely, the
rest is simple, lot's of easy details.
Ken
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