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Can tap water etch glass?
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| Kris Krieger 2006-11-09, 5:25 pm |
| Can tap water etch ordinary glass, and if so, is there a way to fix it?
I've noticed what appear to be "permanent drip lines" in my shower glass,
so I've been hesitating trying to wash my house windows because i'm
wondering whether they might also etch.
TIA!
- K.
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:uPN4h.4567$L6.1092@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Can tap water etch ordinary glass, and if so, is there a way to fix it?
> I've noticed what appear to be "permanent drip lines" in my shower glass,
> so I've been hesitating trying to wash my house windows because i'm
> wondering whether they might also etch.
>
> TIA!
>
> - K.
Probably not etched. Probably lime.
try lime-away
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| Kris Krieger 2006-11-09, 8:25 pm |
| "jojo" <cgv_2000@*remove your hat*yahoo.com> wrote in
news:v3O4h.4953$yl4.1401@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:uPN4h.4567$L6.1092@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Probably not etched. Probably lime.
>
> try lime-away
Oh, OK  So that's OK to use on exterior/house windows?
| |
|
| "Kris Krieger"> wrote
> Can tap water etch ordinary glass, and if so, is there a way to fix it?
> I've noticed what appear to be "permanent drip lines" in my shower glass,
> so I've been hesitating trying to wash my house windows because i'm
> wondering whether they might also etch.
Probably like Jojo said, lime.
Get your water tested immediately, don't waste time.
You most likely have hard water too.
The solution is to have a softener and an RO (reverse osmosis) installed.
The lime will cloud anything it comes in contact with and will be a constant
state of murder if you don't deal with it right now.
It collects in the bottom of your water heater and reduces its efficiency
and life, will cloud your bathroom tile.
Lime Away works sometimes but for us in our last house (we were on a well)
it didn't do very well unless severe elbow grease was applied.
Also, putting a coat of Old English Oil on the shower door, after cleaning
it, helped to keep the lime from attaching to it.
Lime is bad for you and pets if it is ingested through drinking as it will
cause kidney and bladder stones.
I would think birds would be especially sensitive to lime.
We had Culligan do the full monty on our current house but its expensivee, I
think we paid something like $2400 for a softener and RO and *free* salt for
2 years.
(the RO is connected to the door faucet on the frig (side by side) and to a
special faucet on the kitchen sink)
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Don wrote:
> "Kris Krieger"> wrote
>
> Probably like Jojo said, lime.
> Get your water tested immediately, don't waste time.
Check the bottom of your tea pot. That's a lime magnet.
Throw some vinegar in there, swish it around, and see how much stuff
comes out.
> You most likely have hard water too.
> The solution is to have a softener and an RO (reverse osmosis) installed.
> The lime will cloud anything it comes in contact with and will be a constant
> state of murder if you don't deal with it right now.
> It collects in the bottom of your water heater and reduces its efficiency
> and life, will cloud your bathroom tile.
> Lime Away works sometimes but for us in our last house (we were on a well)
> it didn't do very well unless severe elbow grease was applied.
> Also, putting a coat of Old English Oil on the shower door, after cleaning
> it, helped to keep the lime from attaching to it.
>
> Lime is bad for you and pets if it is ingested through drinking as it will
> cause kidney and bladder stones.
> I would think birds would be especially sensitive to lime.
>
> We had Culligan do the full monty on our current house but its expensivee, I
> think we paid something like $2400 for a softener and RO and *free* salt for
> 2 years.
> (the RO is connected to the door faucet on the frig (side by side) and to a
> special faucet on the kitchen sink)
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:YSP4h.4917$ig4.3678@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "jojo" <cgv_2000@*remove your hat*yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:v3O4h.4953$yl4.1401@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
>
>
> Oh, OK So that's OK to use on exterior/house windows?
Lime-away to get the stuff off your shower door. As Don says, sometimes it
has to soak and have a bit of elbow grease. The stuff is toxic, so don't
bath in it.
;-)
Using tap water to wash your windows will not be a problem.
jojo
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| RicodJour 2006-11-10, 9:25 am |
| Don wrote:
> Also, putting a coat of Old English Oil on the shower door, after cleaning
> it, helped to keep the lime from attaching to it.
Use the stuff you put on your car windshield - Rain-X.
R
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-10, 5:25 pm |
| "jojo" <cgv_2000@*remove your hat*yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1L%4h.206$Sw1.182@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:YSP4h.4917$ig4.3678@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Lime-away to get the stuff off your shower door. As Don says,
> sometimes it has to soak and have a bit of elbow grease. The stuff is
> toxic, so don't bath in it.
> ;-)
> Using tap water to wash your windows will not be a problem.
> jojo
>
Thanks!, the exterior windows were my main concern. Kind of a dopey
question but OTOH, I simply do not trust most of what hardware-store
clerks and people in general tell me =:-o
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:kr45h.5276$ig4.1879@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "jojo" <cgv_2000@*remove your hat*yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1L%4h.206$Sw1.182@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>
>
> Thanks!, the exterior windows were my main concern. Kind of a dopey
> question but OTOH, I simply do not trust most of what hardware-store
> clerks and people in general tell me =:-o
>
>
>
I would probably be considered one of those "people in general"
If tap water could etch glass, imagine what your skin and teeth would look
like...
wait...can we see a picture of you?????
jojo
(person in general)
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-10, 5:25 pm |
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:ej0kbv01m5b@news1.newsguy.com:
> "Kris Krieger"> wrote
>
> Probably like Jojo said, lime.
> Get your water tested immediately, don't waste time.
> You most likely have hard water too.
> The solution is to have a softener and an RO (reverse osmosis)
> installed.
Both sound right. I wasn't sure whether it stuck, or actually etched.
But it does collect in the water-faucet screens and everything else. I
have to find out whether there is a separate line for the house and the
pool (I think the pool requires different maintenance if the water is
softened) (BTW the heater finally got turned on so I finally can swim
now!)
> The lime will cloud anything it comes in contact with and
> will be a constant state of murder if you don't deal with it right
> now. It collects in the bottom of your water heater and reduces its
> efficiency and life, will cloud your bathroom tile.
> Lime Away works sometimes but for us in our last house (we were on a
> well) it didn't do very well unless severe elbow grease was applied.
Yup. All are of concern.
(("The Money Pit" is starting to come to mind ;) ))
> Also, putting a coat of Old English Oil on the shower door, after
> cleaning it, helped to keep the lime from attaching to it.
Cool tip, thanks!
> Lime is bad for you and pets if it is ingested through drinking as it
> will cause kidney and bladder stones.
> I would think birds would be especially sensitive to lime.
Four Words: "Purified Distilled Water Only". ;)
> We had Culligan do the full monty on our current house but its
> expensivee, I think we paid something like $2400 for a softener and RO
> and *free* salt for 2 years.
> (the RO is connected to the door faucet on the frig (side by side) and
> to a special faucet on the kitchen sink)
That sounds about right, from what little I've looked at to date, but no
fridge faucet or drinking-water faucet, so it should be a bit less. I
have to bring some samples to the pool-place store for testing, since I'm
also concerned about longevity of the pool.
Actually, guess that means I also best have the soil tested - it the
water comes from local surface water, my guess is that the ground itself
might have significant quantities of lime and minerals.
The did put plastic down before pouring the foundation, so that ought to
last a while, but IMO it's another reason for moving away the soil and
mulch the builder's "landscapers" had rammed right up to the house in the
front. IOW, I suspect it's not conducive to long life for the
concrete...
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-10, 5:25 pm |
| "RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in
news:1163168769.249598.272280@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> Don wrote:
>
> Use the stuff you put on your car windshield - Rain-X.
>
> R
>
I'll have to Google that...
| |
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:rG45h.4867$L6.1346@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in
> news:1163168769.249598.272280@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
> I'll have to Google that...
I used Rain-X but it didn;t *stick* very well.
Old English did.
There's also a prduct we used that we sprayed on the walls and door after
each shower but I can't remember the name.
Its all a PITA and thats why we opted this time to stop it at the source.
| |
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:FE45h.4865$L6.3929@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
> news:ej0kbv01m5b@news1.newsguy.com:
>
>
> Both sound right. I wasn't sure whether it stuck, or actually etched.
> But it does collect in the water-faucet screens and everything else. I
> have to find out whether there is a separate line for the house and the
> pool (I think the pool requires different maintenance if the water is
> softened) (BTW the heater finally got turned on so I finally can swim
> now!)
Shop around for the equipment and educate yourself on how it all works and
maybe you can save a few bux.
My wife was a nervous ninny and climbed all over the culligan dood as soon
as he walked in the door.
All our faucet screens had to be cleaned or replaced.
Whats kinda cool is that purified water actually defies lime deposits.
All our glasses had that white shit all over them but running them through
the dishwater with purified water made them all clear again.
Literally it was like magic.
Jo's right, if its doing that to your shower what is it doing to YOU???
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2006-11-11, 3:25 am |
|
Kris Krieger wrote:
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
> news:ej0kbv01m5b@news1.newsguy.com:
>
>
> Both sound right. I wasn't sure whether it stuck, or actually etched.
> But it does collect in the water-faucet screens and everything else. I
> have to find out whether there is a separate line for the house and the
> pool (I think the pool requires different maintenance if the water is
> softened) (BTW the heater finally got turned on so I finally can swim
> now!)
>
>
> Yup. All are of concern.
> (("The Money Pit" is starting to come to mind ;) ))
I think you've got good advice. I sold water conditioners
for a while, and I really like soft water, but others don't
care. One fella claimed he preferred hard water cuz it's
easier to rinse off the soap suds! The salesman will give
you a free hardness test, and yak your ear off, and the
hydro utility might give you information about the H2O.
You might check out drinking water delivery too.
Ken
| |
|
| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> I think you've got good advice. I sold water conditioners
> for a while, and I really like soft water, but others don't
> care. One fella claimed he preferred hard water cuz it's
> easier to rinse off the soap suds! The salesman will give
> you a free hardness test, and yak your ear off, and the
> hydro utility might give you information about the H2O.
> You might check out drinking water delivery too.
I'd find an independent company to test the water.
The product salespeople may have a tendency to slant the results in their
favor.
Hard water means you have to use more shampoo and its impossible to work up
a good lather in the shower.
I agree with the fact that soap rinses off better in hard water.
I wish I was on a well again, like I was in FL, but from what I've been told
wells are at least 1000' deep round these parts and the drilling rate is
about $10 per foot, and the quality of the well water is deplorable.
With as much rain as there is around here it might be beneficial to look
into roof water piracy and a cistern/collection system.
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2006-11-11, 1:25 pm |
|
Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> I'd find an independent company to test the water.
> The product salespeople may have a tendency to slant the results in their
> favor.
If reputable companies sales reps mislead
customers, I think the rep would be in trouble,
it's profitable to be honest. If I were CEO of
"Culligan" for example, I'd stress integrity.
> Hard water means you have to use more shampoo and its impossible to work up
> a good lather in the shower.
> I agree with the fact that soap rinses off better in hard water.
Well you're left with gritty skin, the soap adhere's
to the calcium and sticks on ya. You really don't
get a better rinse, that can aggavate a skin condition
by plugging pores.
> I wish I was on a well again, like I was in FL, but from what I've been told
> wells are at least 1000' deep round these parts and the drilling rate is
> about $10 per foot, and the quality of the well water is deplorable.
We have a similiar problem.
> With as much rain as there is around here it might be beneficial to look
> into roof water piracy and a cistern/collection system.
That's what we use out of necessity.
Ken
| |
|
| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> Don wrote:
>
> If reputable companies sales reps mislead
> customers, I think the rep would be in trouble,
> it's profitable to be honest. If I were CEO of
> "Culligan" for example, I'd stress integrity.
Careful.
I didn't say mislead.
I said slant.
There's a diff.
A water conditioning tech could, upon recognizing his client is a wife with
young children, mention to her several times that cryptosporum in her water
*can* cause cancer in children. He wouldn't be lying but rather *slanting*
his pitch, whereas such a slant may not work against an elderly client.
Its all in demographic identity and selective factual choices to work to the
tech/salespersons vantage.
Its ALWAYS up to the client to verify and cross reference everything.
Whats that latin/greek phrase, Caveat Emptor?
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2006-11-11, 5:26 pm |
|
Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> Careful.
> I didn't say mislead.
> I said slant.
> There's a diff.
>
> A water conditioning tech could, upon recognizing his client is a wife with
> young children, mention to her several times that cryptosporum in her water
> *can* cause cancer in children. He wouldn't be lying but rather *slanting*
> his pitch, whereas such a slant may not work against an elderly client.
> Its all in demographic identity and selective factual choices to work to the
> tech/salespersons vantage.
> Its ALWAYS up to the client to verify and cross reference everything.
> Whats that latin/greek phrase, Caveat Emptor?
I disagree, clients do not have the time or training,
they need to rely on specialists, you know that,
same as in your business.
Example: I analysed the H2O and found a high
content of Fe2O3, (Ferrous Oxide). Now rust colored
water is tainted with FeO2 (Ferric Oxide), and is
regarded as non-toxic, tho' unpleasant, however
Fe2O3 is clear, but leaves orange stains, that
stuff is toxic.
((White blood cells are drawn to Fe2O3, creating
an Immune Defiency, Kris could correct me if I'm
misleading)).
So I inform the client that his H2O is toxic, and
produced the buttetin, gotta a shrug.
A few months later the clients daughter developed
appendicitis, awhile after that another teenager
got appendicitis with that same toxic compound.
They didn't have to drink that H2O, but the govmint
doesn't give a shit, the drinking water standards are
less than code, recall in ontario 4000 people got
sick and 7 or so died (Walkerton), many now have
chronic health problems.
When people call in an expert they expect to get
healthy water to the best of that's experts ability,
at as a reasonable cost as possible and be informed
of options.
Don, you claim to exceed the minimum code, that's
a "slant", when you design a building, yet you use
the term "slant" almost derogitory when I'd apply
my higher code to drinking water, which is far more
important than the box the're in, remember humans
are 70% H2O, it's quality is in every cell of the body.
What do you want, integrity or someone who
compromises with your health, and Precious
Bodily Fluids??
Ken
| |
|
| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> Don wrote:
>
> I disagree, clients do not have the time or training,
> they need to rely on specialists, you know that,
> same as in your business.
>
> Example: I analysed the H2O and found a high
> content of Fe2O3, (Ferrous Oxide). Now rust colored
> water is tainted with FeO2 (Ferric Oxide), and is
> regarded as non-toxic, tho' unpleasant, however
> Fe2O3 is clear, but leaves orange stains, that
> stuff is toxic.
> ((White blood cells are drawn to Fe2O3, creating
> an Immune Defiency, Kris could correct me if I'm
> misleading)).
>
> So I inform the client that his H2O is toxic, and
> produced the buttetin, gotta a shrug.
> A few months later the clients daughter developed
> appendicitis, awhile after that another teenager
> got appendicitis with that same toxic compound.
>
> They didn't have to drink that H2O, but the govmint
> doesn't give a shit, the drinking water standards are
> less than code, recall in ontario 4000 people got
> sick and 7 or so died (Walkerton), many now have
> chronic health problems.
> When people call in an expert they expect to get
> healthy water to the best of that's experts ability,
> at as a reasonable cost as possible and be informed
> of options.
>
> Don, you claim to exceed the minimum code, that's
> a "slant", when you design a building, yet you use
> the term "slant" almost derogitory when I'd apply
> my higher code to drinking water, which is far more
> important than the box the're in, remember humans
> are 70% H2O, it's quality is in every cell of the body.
>
> What do you want, integrity or someone who
> compromises with your health, and Precious
> Bodily Fluids??
What do *I* want?
Facts.
Truthful facts.
After that I will make my decision on any given situation.
I disagree that the client is NOT responsible for protecting himself.
Particularly in this day and age when any sort of shyster can, and does,
come down the pike.
Back in the early 90's I did hundreds of real estate brochures for tract
home builders.
This included floorplans with room dimensions and perspective elevations.
One of the top real estate brokers in FL told me to ALWAYS make the larger
number first when describing room sizes.
Say, a bedroom that is 16'x 12' rather than 12'x16' because people tend to
remember the first number rather than the 2nd number.
That was why I mentioned the cryptosporum example above as being mentioned
first.
Of all the things that might be in a water sample the wife would remember
the first fact and the rest would be lost in the ether.
The wifes responsibility is to NOT sign on the dotted line immediately but
to read the sales brochures and cross reference the info via the internet
and other sources.
Your notion that people *don't have the time* is invalid for all the usual
reasons and you know it.
(everybody has the same amount of time [24 hours in each day] so it is a
matter of time management rather than time quantity and defining ones
priorities)
BTW: A few weeks ago my wife developed a small but very painful rash on her
side and she researched it on the internet and discovered she had Shingles
(a holdover of childhood chicken pox vaccine, so if you had them beware that
you too may develope Shingles someday) and thus she was prepared to ask the
appropriate questions of the MD at her appointment. (she just informed me a
few minutes ago that the rash appears to be disappearing and the medication
is working)
My father in law however is computer illiterate. and will stay that way til
he dies, relies on the info the Dr's gives him exclusively and is thus
mainly in the dark about the many medical problems he is currently enduring.
In his case ignorance is not bliss.
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2006-11-11, 5:26 pm |
| Ok Don, I thought I made my point, but since our
mutual rebutals are a study in professionalism,
I'd enjoy another round, see how it goes, below.
Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> What do *I* want?
> Facts.
Certainly there are "facts", that's the easy part,
but there are statics and probabilty that I'm
concerned with above, that's the hard part.
> Truthful facts.
Once again, I'm referring to integrity.
> After that I will make my decision on any given situation.
> I disagree that the client is NOT responsible for protecting himself.
The average Joe can't do that, the planet is specialized.
> Particularly in this day and age when any sort of shyster can, and does,
> come down the pike.
Of course, but "snake oil" has been around since
religion was invnted.
> Back in the early 90's I did hundreds of real estate brochures for tract
> home builders.
> This included floorplans with room dimensions and perspective elevations.
> One of the top real estate brokers in FL told me to ALWAYS make the larger
> number first when describing room sizes.
> Say, a bedroom that is 16'x 12' rather than 12'x16' because people tend to
> remember the first number rather than the 2nd number.
Ok, reminds me of the magic penny, it costs 99 cents,
but not $1.00, doesn't make me a shyster.
> That was why I mentioned the cryptosporum example above as being mentioned
> first.
> Of all the things that might be in a water sample the wife would remember
> the first fact and the rest would be lost in the ether.
>
> The wifes responsibility is to NOT sign on the dotted line immediately but
> to read the sales brochures and cross reference the info via the internet
> and other sources.
Of course, but the internet??
> Your notion that people *don't have the time* is invalid for all the usual
> reasons and you know it.
> (everybody has the same amount of time [24 hours in each day] so it is a
> matter of time management rather than time quantity and defining ones
> priorities)
No, the average Joe with an IQ of 100, after putting
in 8 hrs on the job, and 3-4 family hrs + rest, rarely
has the energy, aptitude or training to evaluate - in
detail - a specialists recommendations, that's why
a reputation is important.
> BTW: A few weeks ago my wife developed a small but very painful rash on her
> side and she researched it on the internet and discovered she had Shingles
> (a holdover of childhood chicken pox vaccine, so if you had them beware that
> you too may develope Shingles someday) and thus she was prepared to ask the
> appropriate questions of the MD at her appointment. (she just informed me a
> few minutes ago that the rash appears to be disappearing and the medication
> is working)
That's good to know, I wish everyone could be so
successful with a pro-active approach!
> My father in law however is computer illiterate. and will stay that way til
> he dies, relies on the info the Dr's gives him exclusively and is thus
> mainly in the dark about the many medical problems he is currently enduring.
> In his case ignorance is not bliss.
Don, your last paragraph implies the said Dr's
are NOT informing the patient appropiately, ok
that can happen, but is that mis-treatment?
Your father in law (I pity) is in the hands of
specialists, best wishes there...
Ken
| |
|
|
"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ej4i0p014if@news1.newsguy.com...
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> I'd find an independent company to test the water.
> The product salespeople may have a tendency to slant the results in their
> favor.
> Hard water means you have to use more shampoo and its impossible to work
> up a good lather in the shower.
> I agree with the fact that soap rinses off better in hard water.
> I wish I was on a well again, like I was in FL, but from what I've been
> told wells are at least 1000' deep round these parts and the drilling rate
> is about $10 per foot, and the quality of the well water is deplorable.
> With as much rain as there is around here it might be beneficial to look
> into roof water piracy and a cistern/collection system.
>
>
The quickest, cheapest way, it to take a sample to a swimming pool supply
store.
If they are not busy, and are nice, they will test your water hardness (and
everything else) at
no cost.
jojo
| |
|
|
"jojo" <cgv_2000@*remove your hat*yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5L_5h.5413$IR4.4810@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:ej4i0p014if@news1.newsguy.com...
>
> The quickest, cheapest way, it to take a sample to a swimming pool supply
> store.
> If they are not busy, and are nice, they will test your water hardness
> (and everything else) at
> no cost.
> jojo
Down where I'm from I'd agree as pool places were on every corner.
But here in hoosierville I'm only aware of one and thats at least an hours
drive from here.
In fact, I haven't seen a single built-in pool since I've been here.
Several of the above ground types though.
BTW: Can a pool company test for things other than pool water specs?
| |
|
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"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ejanpm02hr6@news3.newsguy.com...
> Down where I'm from I'd agree as pool places were on every corner.
> But here in hoosierville I'm only aware of one and thats at least an hours
> drive from here.
> In fact, I haven't seen a single built-in pool since I've been here.
> Several of the above ground types though.
> BTW: Can a pool company test for things other than pool water specs?
>
Here they are a dime a dozen as well.
Depends on the company I guess. I use Self-Chem for my tiny little above
ground pool, and
they tested for all the normal pool stuff, which included hardness, mineral
and metal content (apparently we have a lot of copper in our water)
We also have hard water, and a water softener, but no RO.
jojo
| |
|
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ej0kbv01m5b@news1.newsguy.com...
> "Kris Krieger"> wrote
>
> Probably like Jojo said, lime.
> Get your water tested immediately, don't waste time.
> You most likely have hard water too.
> The solution is to have a softener and an RO (reverse osmosis) installed.
> The lime will cloud anything it comes in contact with and will be a
> constant state of murder if you don't deal with it right now.
> It collects in the bottom of your water heater and reduces its efficiency
> and life, will cloud your bathroom tile.
> Lime Away works sometimes but for us in our last house (we were on a well)
> it didn't do very well unless severe elbow grease was applied.
> Also, putting a coat of Old English Oil on the shower door, after cleaning
> it, helped to keep the lime from attaching to it.
>
> Lime is bad for you and pets if it is ingested through drinking as it will
> cause kidney and bladder stones.
> I would think birds would be especially sensitive to lime.
>
> We had Culligan do the full monty on our current house but its expensivee,
> I think we paid something like $2400 for a softener and RO and *free* salt
> for 2 years.
> (the RO is connected to the door faucet on the frig (side by side) and to
> a special faucet on the kitchen sink)
>
Our house we bought came with a water softener installed but I have no idea
how to use the thing. I'm supposed to buy some salts or something? I had
to bypass it till I figured it out as it was making some strange noises and
spitting out water. Probably for the lack of that salt stuff. I'd like to
get it figured out and use it. I heard that the soft water isn't as good a
drinking water because it is missing some healthy things or something. Is
that true?
--
Edgar
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
|
| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> Ok Don, I thought I made my point, but since our
> mutual rebutals are a study in professionalism,
> I'd enjoy another round, see how it goes, below.
>
> Don wrote:
>
> Certainly there are "facts", that's the easy part,
> but there are statics and probabilty that I'm
> concerned with above, that's the hard part.
>
>
> Once again, I'm referring to integrity.
>
>
> The average Joe can't do that, the planet is specialized.
>
>
> Of course, but "snake oil" has been around since
> religion was invnted.
>
>
> Ok, reminds me of the magic penny, it costs 99 cents,
> but not $1.00, doesn't make me a shyster.
>
>
> Of course, but the internet??
>
>
> No, the average Joe with an IQ of 100, after putting
> in 8 hrs on the job, and 3-4 family hrs + rest, rarely
> has the energy, aptitude or training to evaluate - in
> detail - a specialists recommendations, that's why
> a reputation is important.
Yet they have the time to download porn, hang out in forums and chat rooms,
upload pix of their bratz to mammaw in Iowa and all sorts of recreational
things as well as spend 2 hrs at the happy hour bar and then 4 hrs in front
of the toob after picking Bethani up from ballet and Justyn from soccer.
I see.
Now maybe I'm reading you wrong.
Maybe all of what you've said, and what I've said is correct, but people in
general have *devolved* into plastic immitations of themselves and should be
propped up on the shelf at certain times and protected from themselves?
>
> That's good to know, I wish everyone could be so
> successful with a pro-active approach!
Everyone does, at least the ones worth having.
The rest are fodder, dragging the good one backwards.
They should be left to fend for themselves.
Its called evolution.
Only the strong....pass them strong genes on to the next in line.....let the
weak genes die off.....
>
> Don, your last paragraph implies the said Dr's
> are NOT informing the patient appropiately, ok
> that can happen, but is that mis-treatment?
I'm not there at the meetings so I am getting my info 3rd hand, at best.
My father in law (age 78) comes from a less complicated time and he now
finds himself in a complex situation he can't, and doesn't want to,
understand.
Its sad for all concerned.
> Your father in law (I pity) is in the hands of
> specialists, best wishes there...
One can hope.....when thats all thats left.
| |
|
| "Edgar"> wrote
> Our house we bought came with a water softener installed but I have no
> idea how to use the thing. I'm supposed to buy some salts or something?
> I had to bypass it till I figured it out as it was making some strange
> noises and spitting out water. Probably for the lack of that salt stuff.
> I'd like to get it figured out and use it. I heard that the soft water
> isn't as good a drinking water because it is missing some healthy things
> or something. Is that true?
You can buy the salt in 40 & 80 lb bags at Lowes & HD and the #40 cost about
$8, #80 about $12.
My system used about #30 per month.
I usually install the salt myself and I usually buy pellets instead of
crystal.
The system we now have uses crystals and we get it installed free for the
1st 2 years.
If I were you I'd get a local water company to check the whole thing out and
do any adjustments that need tended to and make sure everything is kosher.
There should also be local companies that install the salt on a monthly
basis.
I did that for awhile but found them undependable.
Lugging that salt around is a pain but I'd buy like 4 bags at a time and
keep them in the garage.
BTW: If you know the name and model # of your softener you might be able to
download the manual for it off the web.
| |
|
|
"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163284530.438482.251480@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> No, the average Joe with an IQ of 100
Hey, what's wrong with an IQ of 100, I have 2 of them!!
jojo
| |
|
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ejbd3p0b5q@news1.newsguy.com...
> "Edgar"> wrote
>
> You can buy the salt in 40 & 80 lb bags at Lowes & HD and the #40 cost
> about $8, #80 about $12.
> My system used about #30 per month.
> I usually install the salt myself and I usually buy pellets instead of
> crystal.
> The system we now have uses crystals and we get it installed free for the
> 1st 2 years.
>
> If I were you I'd get a local water company to check the whole thing out
> and do any adjustments that need tended to and make sure everything is
> kosher.
> There should also be local companies that install the salt on a monthly
> basis.
> I did that for awhile but found them undependable.
> Lugging that salt around is a pain but I'd buy like 4 bags at a time and
> keep them in the garage.
>
> BTW: If you know the name and model # of your softener you might be able
> to download the manual for it off the web.
>
I'll take a look at it to see the model info. Getting the water company to
check it is a good idea.
--
Edgar
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2006-11-14, 1:25 pm |
|
Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> Yet they have the time to download porn, hang out in forums and chat rooms,
> upload pix of their bratz to mammaw in Iowa and all sorts of recreational
> things as well as spend 2 hrs at the happy hour bar and then 4 hrs in front
> of the toob after picking Bethani up from ballet and Justyn from soccer.
>
> I see.
>
> Now maybe I'm reading you wrong.
> Maybe all of what you've said, and what I've said is correct, but people in
> general have *devolved* into plastic immitations of themselves and should be
> propped up on the shelf at certain times and protected from themselves?
If I tried to explain the operation of a water
softener in detail the clients eyes would
glaze over and they'd be asleep in 10 minutes,
Me:"Recall a Calcium (Ca) Sodium (Na) exchange
occurs",
Them""Wow cool, tell me more",
Me:"Sure it has to do the relative ionic valence"
Them:"Relativity!, you mean like E=mc2? Right?"
Me: "Yes, but it does not usually melt down, too
often"
>
> Everyone does, at least the ones worth having.
> The rest are fodder, dragging the good one backwards.
> They should be left to fend for themselves.
> Its called evolution.
> Only the strong....pass them strong genes on to the next in line.....let the
> weak genes die off.....
>From water conditioners to eugenics,
better leave any reply for Kris.
>
> I'm not there at the meetings so I am getting my info 3rd hand, at best.
> My father in law (age 78) comes from a less complicated time and he now
> finds himself in a complex situation he can't, and doesn't want to,
> understand.
> Its sad for all concerned.
>
>
> One can hope.....when thats all thats left.
Born 1928, formative years through Depression
and WW2, was amazed by automatic transmissions
and B&W TV.
One old friend of ours was born before the Wright
brothers flight and watched man walk on the moon.
Ken
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2006-11-14, 1:25 pm |
|
jojo wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163284530.438482.251480@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Hey, what's wrong with an IQ of 100, I have 2 of them!!
> jojo
LOL, you got me, (jo+jo), took me a few minutes,
in deference to you I will rephrase,
*the average Sally has an IQ of 101*, girlz being
smarter than Billy's.
Ken
| |
|
|
"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163530543.579605.22710@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> jojo wrote:
>
> LOL, you got me, (jo+jo), took me a few minutes,
> in deference to you I will rephrase,
> *the average Sally has an IQ of 101*, girlz being
> smarter than Billy's.
> Ken
>
Actually Ken, I was implying an IQ of 200.
heeheeheehee (gosh, if you knew me you would know just how fabulously funny
that was!!)
jojo
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-14, 5:25 pm |
| "jojo" <cgv_2000@*remove your hat*yahoo.com> wrote in
news:_B45h.450$Sw1.241@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:kr45h.5276$ig4.1879@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> I would probably be considered one of those "people in general"
Not by a long shot!
"People ion General" = "average people": neighbors;
acquaintances/coworkers/etc. not informed in the area of inquiry; store
clerks; and the like.
You're informed in the area.
>
> If tap water could etch glass, imagine what your skin and teeth would
> look like...
> wait...can we see a picture of you?????
Heck no! <LOL!>
>
> jojo
> (person in general)
No, I'd think it safe to say that you're more intellicent and better-
educated than at least 70% of the population.
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-14, 5:25 pm |
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:ej3l5d02qr0@news1.newsguy.com:
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:FE45h.4865$L6.3929@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Shop around for the equipment and educate yourself on how it all works
> and maybe you can save a few bux.
I'm sure of that ;) Haven't looked into it yet because other budget
items are taking precedence for now.
> My wife was a nervous ninny and climbed all over the culligan dood as
> soon as he walked in the door.
> All our faucet screens had to be cleaned or replaced.
I check those, and soak in LimeAway, about once or twice a year minimum
(but it's been more like once every month or two here, because of how
quickly deosits can build up).
> Whats kinda cool is that purified water actually defies lime deposits.
> All our glasses had that white shit all over them but running them
> through the dishwater with purified water made them all clear again.
> Literally it was like magic.
> Jo's right, if its doing that to your shower what is it doing to
> YOU???
Well, I don't know all of the chemistry, nto by a long shot, but
different things are bothered by, well, different compounds. Of course,
I don't drink tap water (purified distilled only, for the past 15 or so
years) and rinse after brushing with either Listerine or a flouride
mouthwash, so I don't really brush with tap water, either.
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-14, 5:25 pm |
| "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in
news:1163233219.425572.247340@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
[snipped]
>
> I think you've got good advice. I sold water conditioners
> for a while, and I really like soft water, but others don't
> care. One fella claimed he preferred hard water cuz it's
> easier to rinse off the soap suds! The salesman will give
> you a free hardness test, and yak your ear off, and the
> hydro utility might give you information about the H2O.
> You might check out drinking water delivery too.
> Ken
>
Well, the thing with hard water is that its "bothersomenbess" changes
with mineral content. Of course, I've forgotten the details :p - but I
recall, for example, that the well-water from the bungalow in the Pocono
Mtns that my parents had, oh, I guess about 30-some years ago by now, was
great water. But the water here - well, it clogs things up because both
white and black stuff crystallizes out of it, tho' thye white stuff is
what clogs up the faucet screens and the vegetable spray-head; the black
stuff just builds up and eventually restricts water flow through the
faucets.
I haven't drunk tap water for many years, so my concern is that the pipes
themselves will become clogged and possibly damaged.
Bathing in the stuff isn't bad because I use liquid soap only (a
natural/organic mild fragrance-free detergent), so don't get an over-
abundance of junk building up on the shower walls. But the minerals (or
chemicals or whatever) do still build up over time. I'll hit those with
LimeAway, but am still wondering about the house's plumbing. And, for
that matter, the pool. But I'll take water samples to be tested, and see
what that tells me.
Even if I got a softener, tho', I don't want the water *over*-softened,
for the reason you note (it doesn't rinse as well).
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-14, 5:25 pm |
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:ej4i0p014if@news1.newsguy.com:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> I'd find an independent company to test the water.
> The product salespeople may have a tendency to slant the results in
> their favor.
You Betcha!!
> Hard water means you have to use more shampoo and its impossible to
> work up a good lather in the shower.
> I agree with the fact that soap rinses off better in hard water.
> I wish I was on a well again, like I was in FL, but from what I've
> been told wells are at least 1000' deep round these parts and the
> drilling rate is about $10 per foot, and the quality of the well water
> is deplorable. With as much rain as there is around here it might be
> beneficial to look into roof water piracy and a cistern/collection
> system.
That's something I'd really like, if feasible. Prob can't do it here,
but I doubt we'll be here for more than a couple years ;) If nothing
else, it'd be great for gardening and the pool.
OK, totally unrelated - could a house be built over/on top of a huge
cistern? And if so, would that help regulate the house temperature?
| |
|
|
"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:WVo6h.6635$L6.2051@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> No, I'd think it safe to say that you're more intellicent and better-
> educated than at least 70% of the population.
>
>
The population of what?
(snicker)
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-14, 5:25 pm |
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:ej59br0lke@news3.newsguy.com:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> Careful.
> I didn't say mislead.
> I said slant.
> There's a diff.
>
> A water conditioning tech could, upon recognizing his client is a wife
> with young children, mention to her several times that cryptosporum in
> her water *can* cause cancer in children.
Cryptosporidium? I know it can cause infection, but cancer...?? I know
PCBs are linked to cnacer and other health problems, are are many water-
borned chemicals. I'll have to look that up about cryptosporidium,
tho'...
> He wouldn't be lying but
> rather *slanting* his pitch, whereas such a slant may not work against
> an elderly client. Its all in demographic identity and selective
> factual choices to work to the tech/salespersons vantage.
Well, OTOH, fi something is linked to cancer, it makes sense that one
would worry about one's kids. So it can be hard to differentiate between
"slanting info", and addressing things about which most poeple in a
certain circumstance would be concerned. The main problem IMO occurs when
salespoeple just gloss over, or skip entirely, other concerns and/or
potential problems, such that a person can't really make an informed
choice.
WHich is why, as you note:
> Its ALWAYS up to the client to verify and cross reference everything.
> Whats that latin/greek phrase, Caveat Emptor?
Yup, and I think it's Latin.
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-14, 5:25 pm |
| "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in
news:1163278396.679604.132920@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> Don wrote:
>
> I disagree, clients do not have the time or training,
> they need to rely on specialists, you know that,
> same as in your business.
>
> Example: I analysed the H2O and found a high
> content of Fe2O3, (Ferrous Oxide). Now rust colored
> water is tainted with FeO2 (Ferric Oxide), and is
> regarded as non-toxic, tho' unpleasant, however
> Fe2O3 is clear, but leaves orange stains, that
> stuff is toxic.
> ((White blood cells are drawn to Fe2O3, creating
> an Immune Defiency, Kris could correct me if I'm
> misleading)).
I'll defer to the specialist <G!> I honestly don't recall at all.
> So I inform the client that his H2O is toxic, and
> produced the buttetin, gotta a shrug.
> A few months later the clients daughter developed
> appendicitis, awhile after that another teenager
> got appendicitis with that same toxic compound.
>
> They didn't have to drink that H2O, but the govmint
> doesn't give a shit, the drinking water standards are
> less than code, recall in ontario 4000 people got
> sick and 7 or so died (Walkerton), many now have
> chronic health problems.
> When people call in an expert they expect to get
> healthy water to the best of that's experts ability,
> at as a reasonable cost as possible and be informed
> of options.
>
> Don, you claim to exceed the minimum code, that's
> a "slant", when you design a building, yet you use
> the term "slant" almost derogitory when I'd apply
> my higher code to drinking water, which is far more
> important than the box the're in, remember humans
> are 70% H2O, it's quality is in every cell of the body.
>
> What do you want, integrity or someone who
> compromises with your health, and Precious
> Bodily Fluids??
> Ken
>
OTOH, that's exactly why IMO it's important to read up on things that are
of concern. I'd of course expect accurate test results, but, I also
would not go to "Joe's skate board repair and water testing shop"...
| |
|
| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> Born 1928, formative years through Depression
> and WW2, was amazed by automatic transmissions
> and B&W TV.
> One old friend of ours was born before the Wright
> brothers flight and watched man walk on the moon.
1928 was when my father in law was born.
Back in the early 80's I knew an old architect that was late 70's old, so he
must be in his 90's now.
It was cool to talk to him about the old days, he was a aerial map reader in
china during WWII.
There was a lot of wisdom in his words, here are a few of them:
"Don't be a slave to symmetry".
"Stop picking the pepper out of the flyshit".
"A client with a little knowledge is dangerous".
Don't know if he invented those but he was the first person to ever say them
to me.
| |
|
| "Kris Krieger"> wrote
> OK, totally unrelated - could a house be built over/on top of a huge
> cistern? And if so, would that help regulate the house temperature?
I don't see why not, but I'm not an expert.
This is actually part of an idea I've had for a long time.
The self contained house.
When it is built the entire basement would be filled with water and all
water that is used in the future would be filtered and returned to the
basement.
Like what they do on the Shuttlecraft.
There are obvious psychological issues with such a thing, but I think it
could happen.
Wonder how much water a 2000 s.f x 8' high basement would hold.
Now, if the house partially *floated* on the water the weight of the house
could cause pressure in the supply pipes to make the water flow throughout
the house.
| |
|
| "Kris Krieger"> wrote
> "Don"> wrote
>
> Cryptosporidium? I know it can cause infection, but cancer...?? I know
> PCBs are linked to cnacer and other health problems, are are many water-
> borned chemicals. I'll have to look that up about cryptosporidium,
> tho'...
I don't know if it does or not, I just used that as an example of how the
water conditioning salesperson might use specific *fears* to cause any
particular person to want to purchase his product.
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2006-11-15, 9:25 am |
|
jojo wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163530543.579605.22710@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Actually Ken, I was implying an IQ of 200.
> heeheeheehee (gosh, if you knew me you would know just how fabulously funny
> that was!!)
> jojo
What's all that stuff about brain hemisphere's,
and how ones fem and the other masculine and
we're supposed to somehow connect them?
Well, "Jo Jo" sounds like you managed that!
So I hold up 4 fingers and ask how many fingers
do you see, well then close one eye count, close
the other eye and count again, adds up to 8, a
fun prank with kids.
Ok if each hemisphere has an IQ of 100, then
do they add or deduct in conflict???
Interesting, let's bounce that around in the old
brain box and see what comes out.
Ken
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-15, 5:25 pm |
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:ej3la102r0k@news1.newsguy.com:
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:rG45h.4867$L6.1346@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> I used Rain-X but it didn;t *stick* very well.
> Old English did.
And it does multiple duty ;)
> There's also a prduct we used that we sprayed on the walls and door
> after each shower but I can't remember the name.
There are several - I can't tolerate the smells of them, tho' - the
"perfumes" make my respiratory system kind of "seize up". Clorox has a
bleach-based cleaner (basically, diluted bleach with something to keep it
from running down the glass as fast as plain diluted bleach, and maybe
some added surfactant) that I currently spray on the "cultured marble"
and glass, then hit with a window squeegie. But ther are still marks on
the glass, which is why I thought it might have "etched" the glass.
I still have to try to LimeAway... (it takes me a while to get arounw to
things...)
> Its all a PITA and thats why we opted this time to stop it at the
> source.
That sounds good to me!
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-20, 5:26 pm |
| "Edgar" <ecamacho4_nospam@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in
news:4558fb06$0$21109$88260bb3@free.teranews.com:
[snip]
>
> Our house we bought came with a water softener installed but I have no
> idea how to use the thing. I'm supposed to buy some salts or
> something? I had to bypass it till I figured it out as it was making
> some strange noises and spitting out water. Probably for the lack of
> that salt stuff. I'd like to get it figured out and use it. I heard
> that the soft water isn't as good a drinking water because it is
> missing some healthy things or something. Is that true?
>
> --
> Edgar
>
Take a good multivitamin with minerals, such as Centrum. Also, not all
water has all (or even many) of the essential trace minerals. And fairly
often has too much of one or another, or, things you really don't want.
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-20, 5:26 pm |
| "jojo" <cgv_2000@*remove your hat*yahoo.com> wrote in news:zgp6h.10399
$yl4.6458@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:WVo6h.6635$L6.2051@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> The population of what?
> (snicker)
>
>
>
>
ARRRGH!! ;)
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-20, 5:26 pm |
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:ejdk4k0t15@news2.newsguy.com:
> "Kris Krieger"> wrote
>
> I don't know if it does or not, I just used that as an example of how
> the water conditioning salesperson might use specific *fears* to cause
> any particular person to want to purchase his product.
>
Ah, I see. And I've heard other salespeople say thing I know to be
inaccurate or even downright wrong. That part really bugs me, because it
just perpetuates ignorance (as in lack of education, not the same as lack
of aptitude or, the worst, people choosing to be stupid).
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-25, 5:25 pm |
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:ejdjuo0stm@news2.newsguy.com:
> "Kris Krieger"> wrote
>
> I don't see why not, but I'm not an expert.
> This is actually part of an idea I've had for a long time.
> The self contained house.
> When it is built the entire basement would be filled with water and
> all water that is used in the future would be filtered and returned to
> the basement.
> Like what they do on the Shuttlecraft.
> There are obvious psychological issues with such a thing, but I think
> it could happen.
> Wonder how much water a 2000 s.f x 8' high basement would hold.
> Now, if the house partially *floated* on the water the weight of the
> house could cause pressure in the supply pipes to make the water flow
> throughout the house.
>
IMO, there are numerous ideas ofpotential interest.
Water is something I think about a lot. On;y around 2% or 3% of the
world's water is fresh. Meanwhile, the more land humans pave over and
build on, the less open soil there is for water to soak down into, which
in turn exacerbates depletion (and/or contamination) of fresh water
resources.
So IMO, it would be a great idea to have some way to balance unavailable
soil surface with channeling the water (that would otherwise be able to
soak into the ground and/or replenish streams/rivers and other surface
water) into some sort of collection/use/reuse system. If homes had
cisterns, for example, that water could be used for irrigation, and/or
could be filtered and purified for at least washing purposes. This would
put much less strain on both surface water and well/aquifer sources for
drinking water.
I haven't thought a whole lot past using the roof as a water
collection/channeling area, which was thought up IIRC by the Anasazi or
Navaho... One reason for the flat roof stle of SouthWestern buildings
was jsut that, to collect water.
Of course, people will kvetch that it "costs too much", and will only
take any "en masse" action to conserve when potable water becomes more
expensive than gasoline. IOW, as much as people bemoan the lack of
disaster *planning* after occurrances such as hurricanes Andrew and
Katrina, the pathetic fact is that people much prefer to gamble, and then
depend, foolishly yet time after time, upon some sort of centralized
(read: gov.t) *response after the fact*.
So, efforts along these lines have to be undertaken by individuals...
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