Architecture - Cost estimate, opinions?

Author

Cost estimate, opinions?

Gary Frank

2006-11-10, 9:25 pm

I'm guessing this design could be built for $50K w carport (sans land, well,
septic, etc) in the South, especially with the construction slump.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jerry1784/squarehouse.jpg

Living Area: 28'x24', nom 672sf

Living Rm 16-0x11-4 w 2-sided wood stove
Dining Rm 11-0x11-4 w corner hutch
Bedroom 11-0x11-4 w 2'x8' closet
Kit/laundry 8-0x11-4, w broom closet
Bath 5-0x8-0 w skylight
3'x5' utility area for water heater and furnace

Construction details:

Concrete slab floor, extending 4' outside (w thermal break)
2x6 stud exterior walls, 2x4 stud interior walls
Open-web custom-taper roof trusses, rigid insulation on top
Panel ceiling (removable for access to wiring, A/C, etc)
"Flat" roof, pitched 3 inches toward centerline, two scuppers E & W

South glazing: three insulated 8' sliding units, 4' roof overhang
East glazing: one 8' slider in BR, two 4' awnings in LR
West glazing: One awning window over sink
Vertical siding, wood or metal
4'x4' firewood storage area
4'x4' planter
Basic white fixtures, appliances and washer & dryer
Heat pump
Optional carport with 8'x8' storage shed

Don

2006-11-11, 3:25 am

Chuck

2006-11-11, 3:25 am

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-11, 9:25 am

Don wrote:
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:dab5h.5583$ig4.3584@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...

I'd reconsider the fireplace location, it looks
like a pain the XXX where it is. I'd go left,
against the wall, recall wood goes in and ashes
go out, but it's a personal choice.
[color=darkred]
> Depending on the financial climate of the specific region I can see this
> thing being far more expensive than $50k.
> When I was in Florida I would have agreed with your assessment but now that
> I'm in a cold climate I have realized that things are different.
> The only way to get an accurate price is to purchase a piece of land, draw
> up a plan and get a contractor to commit to a contract.
> Anything else is just bullshit........

A few years back I built a 24x28 unfinished
workshop, on piers and bummed windows
and stuff, that alone costed ~ $8000, a
contractor estimated that it would have cost
$20-25K. Gary *might* get it in for near $50k
IF is was a pre-fab, but if it's customized,
that can eat serious time and planning.
It's amazing how a hundred bucks here and
there adds up to thousands.

BTW Don, being nosey, what's your cost for
the shell, absent labor, but inclusive of pad?
Ken

Don

2006-11-11, 9:25 am

"Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> BTW Don, being nosey, what's your cost for
> the shell, absent labor, but inclusive of pad?

Can't tell yet cause all the numbers aren't in.
So far I have about $7k in it I believe.
The excavation was about $3600 and the slab was about $5900.
(about 3 times what I was expecting)

Gary Frank

2006-11-11, 5:26 pm

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163237874.769176.285840@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Don wrote:
>
> I'd reconsider the fireplace location, it looks
> like a pain the XXX where it is. I'd go left,
> against the wall, recall wood goes in and ashes
> go out, but it's a personal choice.
>
>
> A few years back I built a 24x28 unfinished
> workshop, on piers and bummed windows
> and stuff, that alone costed ~ $8000, a
> contractor estimated that it would have cost
> $20-25K. Gary *might* get it in for near $50k
> IF is was a pre-fab, but if it's customized,
> that can eat serious time and planning.
> It's amazing how a hundred bucks here and
> there adds up to thousands.
>
> BTW Don, being nosey, what's your cost for
> the shell, absent labor, but inclusive of pad?
> Ken

Are you drunk? The FP location is ideal. It separates the LR from the DR,
its central location heats the whole house and it even helps block the view
of the bathroom. Clearly, you have no design sense. And moving it against
the dining room wall would make it no closer to the outdoors or wood supply
and you couldn't fucking see it from the fucking LR

And who said anything about the North or FL? I said SOUTH. Actually, I was
referring to SC.

Why do I even bother.

Michael $LS$

2006-11-11, 5:26 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:dab5h.5583$ig4.3584@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I'm guessing this design could be built for $50K w carport (sans land,
well,
> septic, etc) in the South, especially with the construction slump.

Slump? I'm not in the south (I'm in Minnesota) but I thought that there was
a lot of re-building going on in the south? Up here we have noticed a
marked increase (~30%+) in a lot of material costs. I think your $50k
estimate is off, $100k is probably more accurate.

> http://home.earthlink.net/~jerry1784/squarehouse.jpg
>
> Living Area: 28'x24', nom 672sf
>
> Living Rm 16-0x11-4 w 2-sided wood stove
Is it a wood stove or fireplace? 2 or 4 sided? What's the chimney made out
of (because it's got to extend up through the roof and if the material is
stone it could obviously get costly).

> Dining Rm 11-0x11-4 w corner hutch
The hutch alone could cost $1000-3000 depending upon wood species, finish,
number of drawers, glass doors, etc.

> Bedroom 11-0x11-4 w 2'x8' closet
> Kit/laundry 8-0x11-4, w broom closet
Appliances can run you anywhere from $2000-120,000 depending upon what you
want.

> Bath 5-0x8-0 w skylight
Figure $500 for the skylight itself plus another $500-1000 for installation.

> 3'x5' utility area for water heater and furnace
It appears on the sketch that the water heater is blocking the access to the
dryer?

> Construction details:
>
> Concrete slab floor, extending 4' outside (w thermal break)
> 2x6 stud exterior walls, 2x4 stud interior walls
> Open-web custom-taper roof trusses, rigid insulation on top
Do you mean scissor trusses or exposed trusses? Any vault will cost more
than flat ceilings and certainly an exposed truss system will run
significantly more still. Not to mention, if the ceiling is vaulted how are
all the rooms handled? Dropped ceiling (i.e. flat) in some? Walls have to
run up to vault (and thus sheetrock and framing all have to be cut to fit
the slopes)?

Looking back at the sketch I see it appears you want a "flat" roof? Is
there snow loads to contend with? Flat roofs (at least here in MN) tend to
cost more than pitched roof (especially when we're talking a residential
project).

> Panel ceiling (removable for access to wiring, A/C, etc)
Removable panels? Why?

> "Flat" roof, pitched 3 inches toward centerline, two scuppers E & W

> South glazing: three insulated 8' sliding units, 4' roof overhang
Figure $800/each for "low end" and $1200/each for midrange 8' sliding doors.
That's just for the door, it doesn't include framing lumber, installation
labor, millwork, etc.

> East glazing: one 8' slider in BR, two 4' awnings in LR
Use same pricing for this door as above. Figure $200-400 for each window
(again that's just for the window unit itself)

> West glazing: One awning window over sink
$200-400

> Vertical siding, wood or metal
> 4'x4' firewood storage area
What's this made out of?

> 4'x4' planter
What's this made out of? It can be $1000-$3000 for just a 4'x4' stone
planter.

> Basic white fixtures, appliances and washer & dryer
> Heat pump
> Optional carport with 8'x8' storage shed
>

For low-end new construction figure $100-120/s.f. Mid-range runs
$125-160/s.f. High-end runs $165-225 and "money no object" runs $225-300.

In addition to the costs if listed above you've got land costs, site prep,
slab/footing/foundation, framing, plumbing, electrical, etc.... It all adds
up! If you go entry level with ALL your selections you MIGHT be able to do
it for $85/s.f. but that's still over $50k and IMHO not at all realistic.

Now, all that being said, you're best off talking to a local contractor
(preferably one who builds homes at the quality level you'd like) and
getting some rough numbers from them.

HTH,

Michael (LS)

Michael $LS$

2006-11-11, 5:26 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:stq5h.5833$ig4.5719@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163237874.769176.285840@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
land,[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
>
> Are you drunk? The FP location is ideal. It separates the LR from the DR,
> its central location heats the whole house and it even helps block the
view
> of the bathroom. Clearly, you have no design sense. And moving it against
> the dining room wall would make it no closer to the outdoors or wood
supply
> and you couldn't fucking see it from the fucking LR
>
> And who said anything about the North or FL? I said SOUTH. Actually, I was
> referring to SC.
>
> Why do I even bother.
>

After reading this response, please disregard my helpful post as I can see
you don't deserve any help.

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-11, 5:26 pm

Michael (LS) wrote:
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:stq5h.5833$ig4.5719@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> land,
> this
> view
> supply

Sure it would, your wood supply can have a closet
to the interior (lose the hatch) , and your ash clean-out
is outside, nice tidy set-up. Carrying wood and ashes
over carpeting sucks, just need a bit of tile in front of
the FP on that left wall.
I had something similiar, we used a low coffee table
on a shag rug for a dining table and BBQ'd steak bits
over wine, while cushioned on the floor, infront of a
crackling fire with a hint of oak aroma, even the guys
liked it.

South Carolina?? If ya even see a snow-flake
you're in the ditch!
[color=darkred]
>
> After reading this response, please disregard my helpful post as I can see
> you don't deserve any help.

Yeah funny, I only said it's a "personal choice",
and I'm labelled a derilect, (well that part's near
true), I'd hate to be the guy who takes his sketch
and converts it to a building plan for the permits,
that would 2x cost right there!
Ken

Don

2006-11-11, 5:26 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote
> Are you drunk? The FP location is ideal. It separates the LR from the DR,
> its central location heats the whole house and it even helps block the
> view of the bathroom. Clearly, you have no design sense. And moving it
> against the dining room wall would make it no closer to the outdoors or
> wood supply and you couldn't fucking see it from the fucking LR
>
> And who said anything about the North or FL? I said SOUTH. Actually, I was
> referring to SC.
>
> Why do I even bother.

Because you're an idiot that thinks he knows everything but knows very
little, thus your stupid questions and ridiculous sketches that are
completely disfuntional.
At least 3 experienced professionals offered sound advice based on your
obviously goofy sketches and then you complain that we wasted out time in
doing so.

Tell ya what hick, tie a can to it.
I can see a SC contractor shoving it straight up your stupid XXX DRY and
you'll be luvvin' every inch of it. LOL

Don

2006-11-11, 5:26 pm

"Michael (LS)"> wrote
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote
>
> After reading this response, please disregard my helpful post as I can see
> you don't deserve any help.

I cringed when I read your reasoned reply to the OP Mike as I knew you
hadn't yet read his reply to Ken and me.

The OP comes across as a cheap bastard (his bitterness and arrogance is seen
a mile away by most people and thus they try to avoid him, furthering his
bitterness) and ignorant to design and construction and this can be a very
expensive way to live.

People like the OP get exactly what they deserve.

Bitter is as bitter does. LOL

Michael $LS$

2006-11-11, 5:26 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ej5g1t0123f@news3.newsguy.com...
> "Michael (LS)"> wrote
see[color=darkred]
>
> I cringed when I read your reasoned reply to the OP Mike as I knew you
> hadn't yet read his reply to Ken and me.

Yep, I even did a cost breakdown room-by-room. I'm not happy I wasted my
time typing that up (I want my 7 minutes back!!!), but am happy I didn't
send it.

> The OP comes across as a cheap bastard (his bitterness and arrogance is
seen
> a mile away by most people and thus they try to avoid him, furthering his
> bitterness) and ignorant to design and construction and this can be a very
> expensive way to live.
>
> People like the OP get exactly what they deserve.
>
> Bitter is as bitter does. LOL

I am amazed at people who ask a question and then get pissy when someone
answers them. You'd think I'd be used to it by now!!!!

Michael (LS)

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-11, 5:26 pm

Don wrote:
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote
>
> Because you're an idiot that thinks he knows everything but knows very
> little, thus your stupid questions and ridiculous sketches that are
> completely disfuntional.
> At least 3 experienced professionals offered sound advice based on your
> obviously goofy sketches and then you complain that we wasted out time in
> doing so.
>
> Tell ya what hick, tie a can to it.

Having a hot wood stove in a small room
without a railing is a hazard to kids and
people who might lean on it inadvertentally.
To me it's an accident waiting to happen.
Heating with wood takes serious planning,
so for that reason I tried to open that idea.
Ken

> I can see a SC contractor shoving it straight up your stupid XXX DRY and
> you'll be luvvin' every inch of it. LOL

3D Peruna

2006-11-12, 3:25 am

Ken S. Tucker wrote:

> Having a hot wood stove in a small room
> without a railing is a hazard to kids and
> people who might lean on it inadvertentally.
> To me it's an accident waiting to happen.
> Heating with wood takes serious planning,
> so for that reason I tried to open that idea.
> Ken
>

www.tulikivi.com

Expensive...but I love mine.

Michael Bulatovich

2006-11-13, 9:25 am

The plan, which is fatally flawed in my opinion, reminds me of a memorable
scene in "Le Fantôme de la liberté" by Luis Buñuel. It takes time and a
special skill to design something very efficient but still "commodious".
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

You should consider hiring some design talent for your project, or accept
the criticism they way any good designer would while you resolve the design
yourself. Don't forget to draw to scale.

--

MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

3D Peruna

2006-11-13, 9:25 am

Michael Bulatovich wrote:
> The plan, which is fatally flawed in my opinion, reminds me of a memorable
> scene in "Le Fantôme de la liberté" by Luis Buñuel. It takes time and a
> special skill to design something very efficient but still "commodious".
> (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
>
> You should consider hiring some design talent for your project, or accept
> the criticism they way any good designer would while you resolve the design
> yourself. Don't forget to draw to scale.
>

I think part of the problem the OP has is that they're not used to
people completely picking apart their ideas. Anybody who's been to
architecture school expects the worst. Heck...anybody who's had to
present plans to clients knows that their designs are going to be
critiqued (the worst is when a client destroys a good design because
they think they know better).

We always run our stuff by each other in the office to pick apart. It
only makes the design better. If you can't stand the scrutiny, then
don't show it to anyone. But prepared to be mocked when you're done
with the building.

Michael Bulatovich

2006-11-13, 1:25 pm

"3D Peruna" <wharold@weirdness.com> wrote in message
news:N306h.3$Tm1.2@newsfe06.lga...
> Michael Bulatovich wrote:
>
>
> I think part of the problem the OP has is that they're not used to people
> completely picking apart their ideas. Anybody who's been to architecture
> school expects the worst. Heck...anybody who's had to present plans to
> clients knows that their designs are going to be critiqued (the worst is
> when a client destroys a good design because they think they know better).
>
> We always run our stuff by each other in the office to pick apart. It
> only makes the design better. If you can't stand the scrutiny, then don't
> show it to anyone. But prepared to be mocked when you're done with the
> building.

Criticism is a part of design.

Do you know the scene in the film? Hilarious.
--

MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 5:25 pm

"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:eja0e601gri@news3.newsguy.com...
> The plan, which is fatally flawed in my opinion,

Oh, do please tell me where I went wrong. I am willing to learn....lol. A
more efficient, more livable 600sf house seems impossible to me. But take a
whack at it.

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 5:25 pm

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163286048.601868.275460@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Don wrote:
>
> Having a hot wood stove in a small room
> without a railing is a hazard to kids and
> people who might lean on it inadvertentally.

It would be a double-walled, sheet metal stove. Maybe with a blower.

> To me it's an accident waiting to happen.

Look, this house has ONE BR. Does that give you any clue about kids?
Besides, the stove would be perfectly safe even for your granny to take a
nap on.

> Heating with wood takes serious planning,

This house has a furnace and tons of south-facing glass and a concrete slab
to store heat. It does NOT depend on the wood stove for heat.

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-13, 5:25 pm

Gary Frank wrote:
....
> Oh, do please tell me where I went wrong. I am willing to learn....lol. A
> more efficient, more livable 600sf house seems impossible to me. But take a
> whack at it.

Mr. Potato Head, we're living in a 20x20 experimental home
that is nicely designed, I figure a 10x10 with padded walls
might be best for you ;-), seriously, have a sense of humor,
take it easy, your damn lucky the professionals will even
talk to you...maybe you should just fuck-off and go build it.
Beneficially
Ken

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-13, 5:25 pm

Gary Frank wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163286048.601868.275460@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> It would be a double-walled, sheet metal stove. Maybe with a blower.
>
>
> Look, this house has ONE BR. Does that give you any clue about kids?
> Besides, the stove would be perfectly safe even for your granny to take a
> nap on.
>
>
> This house has a furnace and tons of south-facing glass and a concrete slab
> to store heat. It does NOT depend on the wood stove for heat.

What happened to me is I bought a place with a
sticky out wood stove, didn't think much about it,
until a cleaning lady accidentally touched her leg
to it, that's not pretty! Ah, I repositioned the wood
stove so that could not easily happen again.
Suit yourself, but any wood heating appliance is
an excellent lovely instrument in skilled hands.
Ken

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 5:25 pm

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163457257.447271.302060@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Gary Frank wrote:
> ...
>
> Mr. Potato Head, we're living in a 20x20 experimental home
> that is nicely designed,

link?

I figure a 10x10 with padded walls
> might be best for you ;-), seriously, have a sense of humor,
> take it easy, your damn lucky the professionals will even
> talk to you...maybe you should just fuck-off and go build it.
> Beneficially
> Ken

haha...so THAT's it. An amateur outdoes the pros and they get pissed. BTW, I
have many more designs so beware.

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 5:25 pm

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163457827.996252.248380@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Gary Frank wrote:
>
> What happened to me is I bought a place with a
> sticky out wood stove, didn't think much about it,
> until a cleaning lady accidentally touched her leg
> to it, that's not pretty!

I always rape the cleaning lady and bury her in the back yard, eventually.

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-13, 5:25 pm

Gary Frank wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163457257.447271.302060@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> link?

I had the pleasure of respectably joining this group
and a fine fellow rendered this...

http://www.hwb.com/gruhn/3d/20x20/

and we proceeded to build on that bascially.

> I figure a 10x10 with padded walls
>
> haha...so THAT's it. An amateur outdoes the pros and they get pissed. BTW, I
> have many more designs so beware.

I'm professional, and encourage good planning
and lay-outs, as I say, I merely questioned the
setting of a fire-place in the center of a small
room, when moving to a wall (left) might be good.
Yada
Ken

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 5:25 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:9P66h.5944$l25.1025@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163457827.996252.248380@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I always rape the cleaning lady and bury her in the back yard, eventually.

I need to follow up on this. Do you think anyone who lives in a 600sf house
has a cleaning lady? This NG has the biggest bunch of idiots I've ever
encounter on Usenet, and I've been on it since the beginning.

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-13, 5:25 pm

Gary Frank wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163457827.996252.248380@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I always rape the cleaning lady and bury her in the back yard, eventually.

I couldn't do that, the cleaning lady is my boss,
as every lady is...
Ken

Michael Bulatovich

2006-11-13, 5:25 pm

If I thought you were sincere, I might offer to help, but I don't, so I
won't bother.

I know a few guys who designed/built their own houses in remote parts of
this province on a shoestring. They took radically different approaches, but
never aimed the toilet at the company. I did have a rather degenerate
professor who put one on the landing of his main stair for the shock value.

Hasn't anyone in this group seen The Phantom of Liberty?
--

Michael Bulatovich, Architect
B. Arch., OAA, BCDN 5372
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:P966h.5933$l25.4346@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
> news:eja0e601gri@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> Oh, do please tell me where I went wrong. I am willing to learn....lol. A
> more efficient, more livable 600sf house seems impossible to me. But take
> a whack at it.
>
>
>

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 8:25 pm

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163459073.848541.88540@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Gary Frank wrote:
>
> I had the pleasure of respectably joining this group
> and a fine fellow rendered this...
>
> http://www.hwb.com/gruhn/3d/20x20/
>
> and we proceeded to build on that bascially.
>
>
> I'm professional, and encourage good planning
> and lay-outs, as I say, I merely questioned the
> setting of a fire-place in the center of a small
> room, when moving to a wall (left) might be good.
> Yada
> Ken

This is similar to my design but a bit too small. Mine is about right for a
single, couple or as a vacation home for a small family. I'm not sure what
this would be good for. Having to go thru the bathroom to get to the bedroom
is a new one on me..lol..

Michael Bulatovich

2006-11-13, 8:25 pm

Much more clever, despite being way smaller.
--

MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163459073.848541.88540@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I had the pleasure of respectably joining this group
> and a fine fellow rendered this...
>
> http://www.hwb.com/gruhn/3d/20x20/
>
> and we proceeded to build on that bascially.

Michael Bulatovich

2006-11-13, 8:25 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:dU66h.5946$l25.2869@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I need to follow up on this. Do you think anyone who lives in a 600sf
> house has a cleaning lady?

How many do you think have legs?
--

MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 8:25 pm

"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:ejaup502pt3@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:dU66h.5946$l25.2869@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> How many do you think have legs?

A double-walled sheet metal wood stove with a fucking blower is not going to
get hot. And what kind of fucking moron doesn't know enough to get away from
a hot stove anyway?. Do we have to make the whole fucking world fucking
idiot proof? I'd rather get the drunken illegal alien Mexicans off the road,
myself.

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 8:25 pm

"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:ejat2802nu9@news3.newsguy.com...
> If I thought you were sincere, I might offer to help, but I don't, so I
> won't bother.

But I will STILL help you.

>
> I know a few guys who designed/built their own houses in remote parts of
> this province on a shoestring. They took radically different approaches,
> but never aimed the toilet at the company. I did have a rather degenerate
> professor who put one on the landing of his main stair for the shock
> value.

I think I did a rather clever job with the bathroom, considering I have no
hall space at all. The FP blocks it a bit and you can't see it at all from
the DR.

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 8:25 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:S286h.5927$0r.5136@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
> news:ejat2802nu9@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> But I will STILL help you.
>
>
> I think I did a rather clever job with the bathroom, considering I have no
> hall space at all. The FP blocks it a bit and you can't see it at all from
> the DR.

Add to that the fact that the plumbing is all centralized. This is my most
perfect deign and I've been doing them since age 11 with popsicle sticks.

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 8:25 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Rd76h.6675$ig4.2685@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163459073.848541.88540@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> This is similar to my design but a bit too small. Mine is about right for
> a single, couple or as a vacation home for a small family. I'm not sure
> what this would be good for. Having to go thru the bathroom to get to the
> bedroom is a new one on me..lol..

Edit: Having to go thru the KITCHEN and bathroom to get to the bedroom
is a new one on me..lol..

Michael $LS$

2006-11-13, 8:25 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:S286h.5927$0r.5136@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> <<<snipped>>>
>
> The FP blocks it a bit...

You keep mentioning this, where exactly do you have to be standing to have
the FP block the view? Outside? Because the bath is in full view of the
living room.

While, we're on the subject:
the unmade bed is in full view of the dining room
the front door is where?
The ref. is in a poor location
You've got a carport and shed, why not just make it all garage?

I'd go on but why waste my time....

Put down the Popsicle sticks!!!!

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 9:25 pm

"Michael (LS)" <NoSpam@MyEmail.com> wrote in message
news:KD96h.1$gl5.0@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:S286h.5927$0r.5136@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> You keep mentioning this, where exactly do you have to be standing to have
> the FP block the view? Outside? Because the bath is in full view of the
> living room.

It's a bit psychological, and better than nothing. Shit, this is a fucking
600sf house!

>
> While, we're on the subject:
> the unmade bed is in full view of the dining room

Well, you could make the bed, or close the door. Besides, I only have guests
about 3 times a year. They'd need binoculars to see much.

> the front door is where?

This is a fucking 600sf house! They can come to the kitchen door or to the
back glass sliders.

> The ref. is in a poor location

How so?

> You've got a carport and shed, why not just make it all garage?

Saves on a slab and garage door. Besides, I designed this for the South.

> I'd go on but why waste my time....

Gonna watch one of the idol shows?

> Put down the Popsicle sticks!!!!

Never!

Don

2006-11-13, 9:25 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote
> A more efficient, more livable 600sf house seems impossible to me.

Of course it seems impossible to you.
I imagine rocket surgery seems impossible to you too.
Thats why they have specialists to figure out all this stuff for you.

Don

2006-11-13, 9:25 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote
> Do you think anyone who lives in a 600sf house has a cleaning lady?

No.
Nor do I think you've ever had any female company at all.

This NG has the biggest bunch of idiots I've ever
> encounter on Usenet, and I've been on it since the beginning.

<yawn>

Right.
And you've been designing houses for thousands of years too..........

You're a noob and you're a punk and some contractor is gonna take you to the
woodshed.

Hey, upload the video of you getting raped by the contractor to youtube,
I'll surrender long coins to check it out. LOL

Don

2006-11-13, 9:25 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote
> This is my most perfect deign and I've been doing them since age 11 with
> popsicle sticks.

And now that he's 12 years old he's still just a blowhard with no XXX. heh

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 9:25 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ejba640467@news3.newsguy.com...
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote
>
> Of course it seems impossible to you.
> I imagine rocket surgery seems impossible to you too.
> Thats why they have specialists to figure out all this stuff for you.

"rocket surgery"? is this John Kerry? Please get a job Mr Kerry and stop
trying to make jokes.

Gary Frank

2006-11-13, 9:25 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ejbao304m1@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote
>
>
> And now that he's 12 years old he's still just a blowhard with no XXX.
> heh

Why are you interested in my XXX? Interior decorator?

Don

2006-11-13, 9:25 pm

"Michael (LS)" <NoSpam@MyEmail.com> wrote in message
news:KD96h.1$gl5.0@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:S286h.5927$0r.5136@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> You keep mentioning this, where exactly do you have to be standing to have
> the FP block the view? Outside? Because the bath is in full view of the
> living room.
>
> While, we're on the subject:
> the unmade bed is in full view of the dining room
> the front door is where?
> The ref. is in a poor location
> You've got a carport and shed, why not just make it all garage?

So what?
He's the only one thats gonna live there.
If he wants to see in the bathroom from the bedroom he'll have to put a
mirror on the fireplace.
He can also paint a picture on the mirror of the cleaning lady all hiked up
on the shitter, just the way he likes it.

Gary Frank

2006-11-14, 3:25 am

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ejbafg04f2@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote
>
> No.
> Nor do I think you've ever had any female company at all.

My first regular was a buxom lass and horny as hell. I still think about
those huge, perfect tits. My second regular squeeze was a hot Italian. Pert
tits, great little XXX and a sexy smile. Then there was the girl from Hong
Kong. She was constantly in my pants. I think they all want a semi-Caucasian
baby. The last was the ex-model. She was middle aged but still had a
fantastic body. We were together for years but I sorta dumped her.

> This NG has the biggest bunch of idiots I've ever
>
> <yawn>
>
> Right.
> And you've been designing houses for thousands of years too..........
>
> You're a noob and you're a punk and some contractor is gonna take you to
> the woodshed.
>
> Hey, upload the video of you getting raped by the contractor to youtube,
> I'll surrender long coins to check it out. LOL
>

Don

2006-11-14, 3:25 am

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xpa6h.5986$0r.3217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:ejba640467@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> "rocket surgery"?

And this is from a person thats been in usenet since the *beginning*?
Like my old platoon sgt used to say, 'Give an idiot enough rope and .....'.
LOL

2 lezzies were having an argument and one said to the other, 'Lisa, I'm
gonna be frank with you'.
The other one said, 'No, I wanna be Frank, you were Frank last time'.

Don

2006-11-14, 3:25 am

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2sa6h.5989$0r.778@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:ejbao304m1@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> Why are you interested in my XXX?

Could it be because your sketches look like you blew them outta your XXX?
Go back to your childish sketches, child.
The grownups have tired of your silliness. LOL

Gary Frank

2006-11-14, 3:25 am

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ejbdg20bgk@news1.newsguy.com...
>
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:2sa6h.5989$0r.778@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Could it be because your sketches look like you blew them outta your XXX?

Yeah, it looks like shit. But the design is perfect.

> Go back to your childish sketches, child.
> The grownups have tired of your silliness. LOL

Stay away from the black men. That's what gets you people into so much
trouble.

Gary Frank

2006-11-14, 3:25 am

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ejbdan0bcp@news1.newsguy.com...
>
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:Xpa6h.5986$0r.3217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> And this is from a person thats been in usenet since the *beginning*?
> Like my old platoon sgt used to say, 'Give an idiot enough rope and
> .....'. LOL
>
>
> 2 lezzies were having an argument and one said to the other, 'Lisa, I'm
> gonna be frank with you'.
> The other one said, 'No, I wanna be Frank, you were Frank last time'.

I'm strangely attracted to Nancy Pelosi. Big tits and stupidity always seem
to do it.

Don

2006-11-14, 3:25 am

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Gkb6h.6015$l25.5358@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:ejbdan0bcp@news1.newsguy.com...
>
>
> I'm strangely attracted to Nancy Pelosi. Big tits and stupidity always
> seem to do it.

Maybe her and hitlery will get to soil the oval rug in '08 and obama can sit
in the corner huffing blunts and observing.

Pierre Levesque, AIA

2006-11-14, 9:25 am

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ejbh1b0fnb@news1.newsguy.com...
>
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:Gkb6h.6015$l25.5358@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Maybe her and hitlery will get to soil the oval rug in '08 and obama can
> sit in the corner huffing blunts and observing.

I guess that'd be better than the way the rug is being soiled now...

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-14, 1:25 pm

Gary Frank wrote:
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:Rd76h.6675$ig4.2685@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Edit: Having to go thru the KITCHEN and bathroom to get to the bedroom
> is a new one on me..lol..

Here's some pix, hope the link works,
http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/co...m/ph//my_photos

Check out the bath-tub, entered from either
the living room or the bath-room/bedroom and
we can watch TV sitting in the tub!
And sitting on the pooper I can look out the
front door ~20' away.
Another design "trick" is to use all walkways
for double duty.

We simulated the lay-out in our last house,
in a 12x24 office that we artifically shrank
to 10x20 for a season and found it ok.
Also studied lay-outs of Motels and Hotels
and RV's.

Where your Fire-Place is concerned I'd get a
cardboard box and a 10" sonotube to sim it
realistically in a room, see how it looks and
feels.

We've discussed this before in this group,
it easier to design a large building than a
small one, the smaller ones require more
attention to detail and ergonomics.
Gary, I'll just add, the quality of your dwg
looks like a chimp with a crayon, get some
1/4" graph paper, pencil (with a big eraser)
and a ruler.

BTW, Thanks MichaelB for the compliment.
Regards
Ken

Gary Frank

2006-11-14, 5:25 pm

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163530207.863609.115730@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Gary Frank wrote:
>
> Here's some pix, hope the link works,
> http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/co...m/ph//my_photos
>
> Check out the bath-tub, entered from either
> the living room or the bath-room/bedroom and
> we can watch TV sitting in the tub!
> And sitting on the pooper I can look out the
> front door ~20' away.
> Another design "trick" is to use all walkways
> for double duty.
>
> We simulated the lay-out in our last house,
> in a 12x24 office that we artifically shrank
> to 10x20 for a season and found it ok.
> Also studied lay-outs of Motels and Hotels
> and RV's.
>
> Where your Fire-Place is concerned I'd get a
> cardboard box and a 10" sonotube to sim it
> realistically in a room, see how it looks and
> feels.
>
> We've discussed this before in this group,
> it easier to design a large building than a
> small one, the smaller ones require more
> attention to detail and ergonomics.
> Gary, I'll just add, the quality of your dwg
> looks like a chimp with a crayon, get some
> 1/4" graph paper, pencil (with a big eraser)
> and a ruler.

It was drawn to scale on graph paper. Then I added up all the dimensions top
to bottom and left to right. I added or subtracted an inch here or there to
get to a 2' exterior module. It looks like shit when scanned but is pretty
accurately drawn, at least the floorplan. I'm lazy, so once I have a design
perfected I tend to go on to something else. Why should I care? I'm the only
one who will ever build these. I have decided to give up on "normal" size
house cuz I never use half the space. Right now, I have two 600sf designs.
Or I might just get one of these
http://breckenridgefinerliving.com/exterior.html

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-14, 5:25 pm

Gary Frank wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163530207.863609.115730@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> It was drawn to scale on graph paper. Then I added up all the dimensions top
> to bottom and left to right. I added or subtracted an inch here or there to
> get to a 2' exterior module. It looks like shit when scanned but is pretty
> accurately drawn, at least the floorplan. I'm lazy, so once I have a design
> perfected I tend to go on to something else. Why should I care? I'm the only
> one who will ever build these.

If you're planning on self construction, you're in
a good group. For examples, we just completed
our 1st phase, and have liveable habitat, and also
Don, who is a more experienced pro architect is
self assembling a 24x36 office/garage.

> I have decided to give up on "normal" size
> house cuz I never use half the space.

We're empty nesters "down sizing from ~2000 sf.

> Right now, I have two 600sf designs.
> Or I might just get one of these
> http://breckenridgefinerliving.com/exterior.html

Nice design's but I'll ask...
Would you really use a dining room table?
Probably not, we elevated our coffee table
to a comfort level for dining, playing cards,
or sewing as the lady likes to do - flanked
by 2 customized couches.
The coffee table is 28" wide x 7' 6" long to
match the couches and 28" high,on castors,
but we're thinking of raising it to 30-32".

I think we know ourselves enough to make
decisions based on experience as to what is
important and not, and utilitarianism dominates
our approach, when in doubt defer to utility and
easy maintenance.

With ya Gary hope ya post more often.
Ken

Warm Worm

2006-11-14, 5:25 pm

Gary Frank wrote:
>
> Edit: Having to go thru the KITCHEN and bathroom to get to the bedroom
> is a new one on me..lol..

Agreed, and I previously mentioned it on alt.architecture. You also
have to swerve through the "office" to get to the kitchen to get to the
washroom to get to the bedroom.
AFAIK, Ken is not an architect.

Then again, neither am I (graphic designer here), but I'd swap your
washroom with the laundry-room (access sequence) for reasons of
potentially embarrassing noises and smells. I suppose you could always
dual-access the bathroom from both the bedroom and the kitchen, too.
As for "fireplaces", being one who skiis, I do appreciate the
centrally-located ones... ie.,

http://www.trendir.com/archives/fireorb-fireplace.jpg
http://www.focus-creation.com/img/agorafocus.jpg
http://www.bpbo.ca/Images/Slideshow/l31.jpg

....and a good one could always be integrated into the design and
choreography of the living room (or dining room or even kitchen)
insofar as it becomes a central focus rather than as a room-divider
alone. Think primeval campfire socializing, and cozy personal-space
divisions.
Personally, I generally dislike dining rooms, and would prefer to do
without them in my own designs and would rather eat on, or in front of,
the tv, computer, girlfriend, fireplace, in an eat-in kitchen and in
the bedroom.
I'd be tempted to expand your kitchen into the dining room and turn it
into a kind of multipurpose country-kitchen/chef's concept/charm.
Also, I've read-- and in my experience too-- that many party-goers can
tend to chat and congregate in the kitchen. Hey, easy-access to booze,
food and an overall good mood, dude.

> I need to follow up on this. Do you think anyone who lives in a 600sf house
> has a cleaning lady?

Would that include "wife", or "girlfriend"? ;)

> A double-walled sheet metal wood stove with a fucking blower is not going to
> get hot. And what kind of fucking moron doesn't know enough to get away from
> a hot stove anyway?. Do we have to make the whole fucking world fucking
> idiot proof?

Which, when edited, reads;
> ... fucking... fucking... fucking... fucking...

> This NG has the biggest bunch of idiots I've ever encounter on Usenet, and I've been on it
> since the beginning.

Which one?

Gary Frank

2006-11-14, 5:25 pm

"Warm Worm" <glomerol@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1163538362.036971.29350@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> Gary Frank wrote:
>
> Agreed, and I previously mentioned it on alt.architecture. You also
> have to swerve through the "office" to get to the kitchen to get to the
> washroom to get to the bedroom.
> AFAIK, Ken is not an architect.

> Then again, neither am I (graphic designer here), but I'd swap your
> washroom with the laundry-room (access sequence) for reasons of
> potentially embarrassing noises and smells.

That would ruin the design (why do you people come up with this shitty
ideas?). You'd have the kit opposite the bath (and in view) and far removed
from the bedroom. I designed this house to be PERFECT FOR WHAT IT IS, AND IT
IS PERFECT.

I suppose you could always
> dual-access the bathroom from both the bedroom and the kitchen, too.
> As for "fireplaces", being one who skiis, I do appreciate the
> centrally-located ones... ie.,
>
> http://www.trendir.com/archives/fireorb-fireplace.jpg
> http://www.focus-creation.com/img/agorafocus.jpg
> http://www.bpbo.ca/Images/Slideshow/l31.jpg
>
> ...and a good one could always be integrated into the design and
> choreography of the living room (or dining room or even kitchen)
> insofar as it becomes a central focus rather than as a room-divider
> alone. Think primeval campfire socializing, and cozy personal-space
> divisions.
> Personally, I generally dislike dining rooms, and would prefer to do
> without them in my own designs and would rather eat on, or in front of,
> the tv, computer, girlfriend, fireplace, in an eat-in kitchen and in
> the bedroom.

Ah, then you need to see my 2nd 600sf design. It's cantilevered over a
carport. Has no DR and the kit is open to the LR, CUZ THAT'S WHAT THE SHAPE
DICTATED.

> I'd be tempted to expand your kitchen into the dining room and turn it
> into a kind of multipurpose country-kitchen/chef's concept/charm.
> Also, I've read-- and in my experience too-- that many party-goers can
> tend to chat and congregate in the kitchen. Hey, easy-access to booze,
> food and an overall good mood, dude.

My 2nd design is like that. But you really can't fuck with a design and try
to turn it into something it's not.

>
>
> Would that include "wife", or "girlfriend"? ;)
>
>
> Which, when edited, reads;

I swear because I can
[color=darkred]
>
>
> Which one?

alt.pave.the.earth was one of the first back in '94

Gary Frank

2006-11-14, 5:25 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:1Yq6h.6263$0r.1231@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Warm Worm" <glomerol@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163538362.036971.29350@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> That would ruin the design (why do you people come up with this shitty
> ideas?). You'd have the kit opposite the bath (and in view) and far
> removed from the bedroom. I designed this house to be PERFECT FOR WHAT IT
> IS, AND IT IS PERFECT.
>
> I suppose you could always
>
> Ah, then you need to see my 2nd 600sf design. It's cantilevered over a
> carport. Has no DR and the kit is open to the LR, CUZ THAT'S WHAT THE
> SHAPE DICTATED.
>
>
>
> My 2nd design is like that. But you really can't fuck with a design and
> try to turn it into something it's not.
>
>
> I swear because I can
>
>
> alt.pave.the.earth was one of the first back in '94

Edit: And in such a small house, it's nice to have TWO areas for people to
gather, ie women in the kit and men in front of the TV.

Gary Frank

2006-11-14, 5:25 pm

"Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:J1r6h.6228$l25.3775@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:1Yq6h.6263$0r.1231@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Edit: And in such a small house, it's nice to have TWO areas for people to
> gather, ie women in the kit and men in front of the TV.

Edit: I meant you'd have the DR opposite the bath and in view of it. AND
you'd have no window in the kit. AND the kit would not be as close to the
DR.

Shit, I really should stop explaining stuff to you morons. JUST STUDY MY
DESIGNS AND LEARN!!!!

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-14, 5:25 pm

Gary Frank wrote:
> "Gary Frank" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:J1r6h.6228$l25.3775@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Edit: I meant you'd have the DR opposite the bath and in view of it. AND
> you'd have no window in the kit. AND the kit would not be as close to the
> DR.
>
> Shit, I really should stop explaining stuff to you morons. JUST STUDY MY
> DESIGNS AND LEARN!!!!

Design is a matter of personal taste,
I think yours is ok but the pro's moved
in with "positive" criticism.
BTW, when hammering nails the pointy
end goes toward the wood thingy :-).
Took us a few weeks to learn that, duh.
Moroniky
Ken
PS: Please post pix, apart from your crumbly
atitude and personality, I think we all like you,
(right guys), yeah.
Go for it.
Ken
PS: You need to aim and shoot to hit the target.
PSS: I'm out of PS's.

Warm Worm

2006-11-14, 5:25 pm

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
> PSS: I'm out of PS's.

Here's some more: ps ps ps fucking ps PMS ps...
Hey, how'd those get in there?

Edgar

2006-11-14, 5:25 pm

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163544056.939286.17690@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Design is a matter of personal taste,
> I think yours is ok but the pro's moved
> in with "positive" criticism.
> BTW, when hammering nails the pointy
> end goes toward the wood thingy :-).
> Took us a few weeks to learn that, duh.
> Moroniky
> Ken
> PS: Please post pix, apart from your crumbly
> atitude and personality, I think we all like you,
> (right guys), yeah.
> Go for it.
> Ken
> PS: You need to aim and shoot to hit the target.
> PSS: I'm out of PS's.
>

Uh, no, not right. Gorilla Pimp, Gary Frank. The same no talent racist
hack. The less I hear from him the better. I honestly can't believe you
guys have even responded and put up with this shit. He thinks he's perfect.
So why bother posting in here, he should be able to figure everything out on
his own in his perfection.

--
Edgar

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Don

2006-11-14, 8:25 pm

"Pierre Levesque, AIA" <connarchNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KVj6h.3169$fk2.962@trndny02...
>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:ejbh1b0fnb@news1.newsguy.com...
>
> I guess that'd be better than the way the rug is being soiled now...

Step away from the TV for awhile, like maybe 6 months or so, then turn it
back on.
Its almost impossible to watch.
The quick film edits, the goofy content (almost every show is about
extremely efficient gov't employees (gov't lawyers, gov't doctors, gov't
spies) that ALWAYS catch the bad guys) so that you can't really focus on
anything and even if you could why would you, there's nothing really there.
(but fear instilled in the viewers)
That is exactly the way american politics looks to me, like a silly TV show.
It can't be taken seriously.

That poor ol' rug.....they out to bronze it and put it in the smifsonian,
right up there next to that parchment under glass, and acid etch the floor
instead and give it an industrial epoxy coating made to look like blood and
jizz stains.

Don

2006-11-14, 8:25 pm

"Warm Worm"> wrote
> Gary Frank wrote:
>
> Would that include "wife", or "girlfriend"? ;)

Rosie and her 4 daughters.

Don

2006-11-14, 8:25 pm

"Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> If you're planning on self construction, you're in
> a good group. For examples, we just completed
> our 1st phase, and have liveable habitat, and also
> Don, who is a more experienced pro architect is
> self assembling a 24x36 office/garage.

Call me an arkytek agin an owl hafta kee ya. heh

The roof felt is done and the tyveks installed, cept the gables, which will
be done tomorrow if my poundin' hand holds up.
Musta drove 1000 roofing nails today and my right forearm feels like it.
(cut about 80, 14 1/2" long 2x4 fireblocks too)
Had to switch from the 26oz Estwing to the 16oz Craftsman cause it was
killin me.
Hopefully tomorrow the windows and doors will be installed and start on the
siding, which was delivered yesterday.
Galv steel roof panels are supposed to be delivered this coming friday and
the electrician is supposed to show up on that day to run my 100amp sub
panel underground from the house.
Today was nice, in the low 50's...got alot of stuff done.

Don

2006-11-14, 8:25 pm

"Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> BTW, when hammering nails the pointy
> end goes toward the wood thingy :-).
> Took us a few weeks to learn that, duh.

OK, after watching it very closely and paying attention to what was going on
I think I've figured out WHY blunting the nail point will avoid splitting
the wood when you're toenailing.

A pointed nail, like the ones that come straight out of the box, spreads the
wood fibers (forces them in opposite directions laterally) as it enters,
which is why wood splits when the nail enters close to the end.
When you blunt the nail however the flattened point doesn't split the fibers
but rather cuts them off and therefore the lateral pressure attributed to
splitting is reduced.

Waddya think?

Gotta admit, the first time I seen this done 40 some years ago it seemed
contradictory to me but now it sorta makes sense.

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-15, 3:26 am

Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> Call me an arkytek agin an owl hafta kee ya. heh

:-)

> The roof felt is done and the tyveks installed, cept the gables, which will
> be done tomorrow if my poundin' hand holds up.
> Musta drove 1000 roofing nails today and my right forearm feels like it.
> (cut about 80, 14 1/2" long 2x4 fireblocks too)
> Had to switch from the 26oz Estwing to the 16oz Craftsman cause it was
> killin me.
> Hopefully tomorrow the windows and doors will be installed and start on the
> siding, which was delivered yesterday.

What kind and color of siding did you decide on?
Did wife make the decision?

> Galv steel roof panels are supposed to be delivered this coming friday and
> the electrician is supposed to show up on that day to run my 100amp sub
> panel underground from the house.

Underground, we had to go 3' deep here.

> Today was nice, in the low 50's...got alot of stuff done.

Great, your out of the rain mostly, The BI-guy (inspector)
wants us to put an 1"of styro on our building xterior to
get to code cuz we're only 2x4, no prob it'll pay for itself.
We're pushin that to spring and doing interior now.
Ken

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-15, 3:26 am

Edgar wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163544056.939286.17690@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Uh, no, not right. Gorilla Pimp, Gary Frank. The same no talent racist
> hack. The less I hear from him the better. I honestly can't believe you
> guys have even responded and put up with this shit. He thinks he's perfect.
> So why bother posting in here, he should be able to figure everything out on
> his own in his perfection.

Makes ya wonder, I've always found it a pleasure
to discuss fella's building projects face to face,
but some people on the internet go ballistic over
minor things, I wonder if the're like that in real life,
so I know not to try to be more helpful.
Oh well
Ken

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-15, 3:26 am

Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> OK, after watching it very closely and paying attention to what was going on
> I think I've figured out WHY blunting the nail point will avoid splitting
> the wood when you're toenailing.
>
> A pointed nail, like the ones that come straight out of the box, spreads the
> wood fibers (forces them in opposite directions laterally) as it enters,
> which is why wood splits when the nail enters close to the end.
> When you blunt the nail however the flattened point doesn't split the fibers
> but rather cuts them off and therefore the lateral pressure attributed to
> splitting is reduced.
>
> Waddya think?
> Gotta admit, the first time I seen this done 40 some years ago it seemed
> contradictory to me but now it sorta makes sense.

Sounds reasonable, I can't really say, I just don't
use toe-nailing, I use angle iron (90's) and screws.
Sometimes I'll pre-drill a hole with a 3/16" or 1/8"
bit and screw carefully into that, but use pine in
place of spruce because pine resists splitting in
some applications like trim where it's visible, also
the pine has a better appearance than spruce but
it costs 2x more.
Another thing that I dislike about toe-nailing is
the nail deflected by knots, so toe-nailing requires
some inspection of the wood, but by the time I do
that I can pre-drill and or put in a 90.
If you add blunting time and energy to nails I'd
certainly per-drill, buzz-buzz-buzz, save the arm.
Ken
Ps: I don't trust nailing into end cuts, except as
a guide to be reinforced.
PSS: I'm out of PS's.

Don

2006-11-15, 9:25 am

"Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> Don wrote:
>
> :-)
>
>
> What kind and color of siding did you decide on?
> Did wife make the decision?

The siding is white double 4" dutch lap, not the standard ship lap stuff,
and it will match whats on the existing house.
The trim is white too.

>
> Underground, we had to go 3' deep here.

I think it only has to be 12" here but because its going under an especially
nice portion of our yard I'll have the dood drop it down as low as the
ditchwitch will allow so my wife won't hit it when she decides to plant a
shrubbery.

>
> Great, your out of the rain mostly, The BI-guy (inspector)
> wants us to put an 1"of styro on our building xterior to
> get to code cuz we're only 2x4, no prob it'll pay for itself.
> We're pushin that to spring and doing interior now.

So, they let you live in the place BEFORE its completed?
In FL you have to have the CO (certificate of occupancy) before you can
legallt move in.
Around here I don't think they care about such things.

Michael Bulatovich

2006-11-15, 9:25 am

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163579441.465785.297720@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> wants us to put an 1"of styro on our building xterior to
> get to code cuz we're only 2x4, no prob it'll pay for itself.
> We're pushin that to spring and doing interior now.

Where are you located?

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-15, 1:25 pm

Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> The siding is white double 4" dutch lap, not the standard ship lap stuff,
> and it will match whats on the existing house.
> The trim is white too.

I think that's what we'll do. We get alot of sun
in the summer and this past summer the building
wall became uncomfortably hot to touch >120F,
which burdens the A/C unit. I wanted dark green,
but that's likely impractical. Well you from Fl know
better than I.

>
> I think it only has to be 12" here but because its going under an especially
> nice portion of our yard I'll have the dood drop it down as low as the
> ditchwitch will allow so my wife won't hit it when she decides to plant a
> shrubbery.

Sorry, I was reminded we needed to go 2 feet,
here not 3' as I stated. IIRC we needed to go
3' in Muskoka Ont, MichaelB can correct me.

Something strange is running the phone line
about 12" away from the power line to avoid
the 60 hz inducing into the phone line, our
electrician insisted on that in our 50' trench.
Might be true, I don't know, but our electrician
was very good and I'd defer to him on that.

>
> So, they let you live in the place BEFORE its completed?

No, not legally, we live in the 8x12 Office ;-),
Legally we can live in a trailer indefinitely, so
we just nodded yup we have a trailer.

> In FL you have to have the CO (certificate of occupancy) before you can
> legallt move in.
> Around here I don't think they care about such things.

Although this sub-division is zoned residential, it has
no water or sewers, cuz the developer went "broke"
after selling all the lots and those services were never
installed, that was back in 1972. Today you can't
develope residential lots without services.
The BI-guy spent about 3 hours here and listed
~10 things that weren't in code spec, minor stuff.
Ken

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-15, 1:25 pm

Michael Bulatovich wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1163579441.465785.297720@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Where are you located?

Okanagan Valley BC, between Vernon and
Kelowna in a quaint sub-division called
*Valley of the Sun*, our intention is/was to
use this as a recreational building for us and
kids in Vancouver.

Curious, MichaelB, your post appeared at 6:44am
PST, but I thought you were in EST time zone,
meaning you posted at 3:44 am? Are you an
early riser or an insomniac?
Ken

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-15, 1:25 pm

Warm Worm wrote:
> Gary Frank wrote:
....
>
> Agreed, and I previously mentioned it on alt.architecture. You also
> have to swerve through the "office" to get to the kitchen to get to the
> washroom to get to the bedroom.

LOL, new design guidelines, "no swerving",
it makes jogging difficult.

> AFAIK, Ken is not an architect.

Architecture is a hobby for me (us), tho I've taken
some courses, I'm best being an amateur, but I
do get paid to do it.

> Then again, neither am I (graphic designer here), but I'd swap your
> washroom with the laundry-room (access sequence) for reasons of
> potentially embarrassing noises and smells. I suppose you could always
> dual-access the bathroom from both the bedroom and the kitchen, too.
> As for "fireplaces", being one who skiis, I do appreciate the
> centrally-located ones... ie.,
>
> http://www.trendir.com/archives/fireorb-fireplace.jpg
> http://www.focus-creation.com/img/agorafocus.jpg
> http://www.bpbo.ca/Images/Slideshow/l31.jpg

Nice stuff in a ski chalet, but Gary's in S.C.
Ken

Cato

2006-11-15, 5:25 pm

Don wrote:
> "Warm Worm"> wrote
>
> Rosie and her 4 daughters.

Did one of the daughters run away from home, because there used to be
five. lol

Michael Bulatovich

2006-11-15, 5:25 pm

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1163616218.778075.180530@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Curious, MichaelB, your post appeared at 6:44am
> PST, but I thought you were in EST time zone,
> meaning you posted at 3:44 am? Are you an
> early riser or an insomniac?
>

That's odd. My client shows it going out the door, and on the group at 9:44
am.(EST)

Don

2006-11-15, 8:25 pm

"Cato"> wrote
> Don wrote:
>
> Did one of the daughters run away from home, because there used to be
> five. lol

At highspeed that fat stepdaughter named Thumb usually acts as a
counterbalance and therefore doesn't provide any viable asset.
At least thats what I've been told.... heh

Don

2006-11-15, 8:25 pm

"Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> Something strange is running the phone line
> about 12" away from the power line to avoid
> the 60 hz inducing into the phone line, our
> electrician insisted on that in our 50' trench.
> Might be true, I don't know, but our electrician
> was very good and I'd defer to him on that.

Yeah, I've heard about that, so 2 trenches are required.
I'm gonna start out with my cordless phone and a base station back in the
house, and my cell of course.
I'm also gonna try to use my notebook to connect back to the wireless router
in the house.
Already tried it in my truck in the driveway and it works fine.

Kris Krieger

2006-11-20, 5:26 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:ejf2u3021qp@news3.newsguy.com:

> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> The siding is white double 4" dutch lap, not the standard ship lap
> stuff, and it will match whats on the existing house.
> The trim is white too.

Do these pics illustrate those...?

http://www.accentconstruction.com/siding.html

>
>
> I think it only has to be 12" here but because its going under an
> especially nice portion of our yard I'll have the dood drop it down as
> low as the ditchwitch will allow so my wife won't hit it when she
> decides to plant a shrubbery.
>
>
> So, they let you live in the place BEFORE its completed?
> In FL you have to have the CO (certificate of occupancy) before you
> can legallt move in.
> Around here I don't think they care about such things.
>
>
>

RicodJour

2006-11-20, 5:26 pm

Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> Yeah, I've heard about that, so 2 trenches are required.
> I'm gonna start out with my cordless phone and a base station back in the
> house, and my cell of course.
> I'm also gonna try to use my notebook to connect back to the wireless router
> in the house.
> Already tried it in my truck in the driveway and it works fine.

The phone and cable service lines are coaxial - they're shielded. I've
run them in the same trench as the buried electrical service and never
had a problem, and that's with them buried at the same depth as the
electrical. I bury everything in conduit since I'm not digging that up
again, no way, no how.

R

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-20, 5:26 pm

RicodJour wrote:
> Don wrote:
>
> The phone and cable service lines are coaxial - they're shielded. I've
> run them in the same trench as the buried electrical service and never
> had a problem, and that's with them buried at the same depth as the
> electrical. I bury everything in conduit since I'm not digging that up
> again, no way, no how.
> R

Right, (we put in conduit and then a fish line
using a vacuum cleaner). The co-axial sheild
is only as good as the grounding, and the
grounding in my virtual desert is not the best,
the ground is mostly bone dry, so I deferred
to the experienced.
Ken

Don

2006-11-20, 5:26 pm

"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:N3o8h.1288$tM1.87@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
> news:ejf2u3021qp@news3.newsguy.com:
>
>
> Do these pics illustrate those...?
>
> http://www.accentconstruction.com/siding.html

Precisely.

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