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Home > Archive > Architecture > November 2006 > Heat and Power. Whaddaya think?
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Heat and Power. Whaddaya think?
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| "Edgar"> wrote
> Something like this would be perfect for my small house.
Perhaps, but don't start throwing your coins yet.
The article didn't describe how CHP works so I went to Climate Energy's site
www.climate-energy.com and they don't describe it in much detail either.
But they did let loose enough that I could fill in the blanks and here are a
few of my thoughts.
They are using a (honda) internal combustion engine to drive a generator
(DC, which then must be converted to AC (with an invertor) so that the juice
can be used for standard household purposes) and the heat that the engine
naturally makes is used to heat water, or air for a forced air furnace.
This, they say, is using the fuel twice.
Once to produce the electricity from the generator and twice to heat the
water/air.
You currently own one of these devices and most other people in the last 75
years or so have too, its called a *car*.
A car runs on an internal combustion engine and it spins a
generator/alternator that produces electricty to power headlights, radios,
DVD players, etc., etc., and the water that circulates through the internal
water jackets of the engine is used to heat the interior (air) of the car.
(You could have hot water inside your vehicle if you wanted to, like for
bathing in an RV and a hot drink on a long winter drive.)
PLUS, the car actually carries you to far away destinations!
(the CHP is stationary) heh
One of the downsides of this thing is that internal combustion engines
produce noise, alot of noise.
You can put a muffler on it, like your lawn mower, but it still produces
alot.
Mufflering the engine further (I put 2 mufflers in a series on a lawn mower
one time, ran like hell but it was 1/2 as noisy!) will stifle the power and
efficiency of the thing.
We used a 3500watt generator for 3 days after hurrican Charlie in 2004 and
the noise of it almost drove me nuckin futz.
Frankly, I was a little disappointed when I realized what this CHP deal was
all about.
I guess I let that news article build me up.
I thought someone had come up with a brand new idea or sumfink.....
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| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ejdvh401a0g@news2.newsguy.com...
> "Edgar"> wrote
>
> Perhaps, but don't start throwing your coins yet.
> The article didn't describe how CHP works so I went to Climate Energy's
> site www.climate-energy.com and they don't describe it in much detail
> either.
> But they did let loose enough that I could fill in the blanks and here are
> a few of my thoughts.
>
> They are using a (honda) internal combustion engine to drive a generator
> (DC, which then must be converted to AC (with an invertor) so that the
> juice can be used for standard household purposes) and the heat that the
> engine naturally makes is used to heat water, or air for a forced air
> furnace.
> This, they say, is using the fuel twice.
> Once to produce the electricity from the generator and twice to heat the
> water/air.
>
> You currently own one of these devices and most other people in the last
> 75 years or so have too, its called a *car*.
>
> A car runs on an internal combustion engine and it spins a
> generator/alternator that produces electricty to power headlights, radios,
> DVD players, etc., etc., and the water that circulates through the
> internal water jackets of the engine is used to heat the interior (air) of
> the car.
> (You could have hot water inside your vehicle if you wanted to, like for
> bathing in an RV and a hot drink on a long winter drive.)
>
> PLUS, the car actually carries you to far away destinations!
> (the CHP is stationary) heh
>
> One of the downsides of this thing is that internal combustion engines
> produce noise, alot of noise.
> You can put a muffler on it, like your lawn mower, but it still produces
> alot.
> Mufflering the engine further (I put 2 mufflers in a series on a lawn
> mower one time, ran like hell but it was 1/2 as noisy!) will stifle the
> power and efficiency of the thing.
>
> We used a 3500watt generator for 3 days after hurrican Charlie in 2004 and
> the noise of it almost drove me nuckin futz.
>
> Frankly, I was a little disappointed when I realized what this CHP deal
> was all about.
> I guess I let that news article build me up.
>
> I thought someone had come up with a brand new idea or sumfink.....
>
Ok but what's the deal with these tankless water heaters?
http://www.palomaindustries.com/pl/
I'm curious as they make it sound all good, no bad. There has to be some
bad right? Our water heater is outside right now, and it takes forever for
hot water to get going. I know I need to get a blanket for it, but I'm
curious if these tankless ones would wokr well since I don't have an indoor
place to put a standard WH.
--
Edgar
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
| Kris Krieger 2006-11-15, 5:25 pm |
| "Edgar" <ecamacho4_nospam@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in
news:455b576f$0$21128$88260bb3@free.teranews.com:
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:ejdvh401a0g@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> Ok but what's the deal with these tankless water heaters?
You mean aside from that they can't fill even a regular-sized tub...? It
sounds OK in theory, but from what I've heard, they aren't worth the
annoyance of constantly running out of hot water. YMMV, of course...
>
> http://www.palomaindustries.com/pl/
>
> I'm curious as they make it sound all good, no bad. There has to be
> some bad right? Our water heater is outside right now, and it takes
> forever for hot water to get going. I know I need to get a blanket
> for it, but I'm curious if these tankless ones would wokr well since I
> don't have an indoor place to put a standard WH.
>
Why not build a shelter around it (allowing for airflow, of course) in
addition to a couple of insulated blankets?
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| "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:9mK6h.6520$0r.2563@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Edgar" <ecamacho4_nospam@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:455b576f$0$21128$88260bb3@free.teranews.com:
>
>
> You mean aside from that they can't fill even a regular-sized tub...? It
> sounds OK in theory, but from what I've heard, they aren't worth the
> annoyance of constantly running out of hot water. YMMV, of course...
>
>
>
> Why not build a shelter around it (allowing for airflow, of course) in
> addition to a couple of insulated blankets?
>
I guess that will be what I end up doing. Maybe just add insulation to the
metal shed its in.
--
Edgar
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| "Edgar"> wrote
> Ok but what's the deal with these tankless water heaters?
>
> http://www.palomaindustries.com/pl/
>
> I'm curious as they make it sound all good, no bad. There has to be some
> bad right? Our water heater is outside right now, and it takes forever
> for hot water to get going. I know I need to get a blanket for it, but
> I'm curious if these tankless ones would wokr well since I don't have an
> indoor place to put a standard WH.
My only experience with them was about 10 years ago I spec'd, I think, about
8 of them in a 10k sf home I designed and afterward the owner swore by them.
I have read and read about these things but I can't find anyone to validate
the feasibility of them, I'm talking about legitimate end users.
I'm gonna put one in my office as I won't require alot of hot water and it
will most likely be a gas fired one.
The way I understand that they work is that there is a coil of copper tubing
with continuous water flowing though it when the faucet is turned on and the
tubing then runs through a gas burner and the water is instantly super
heated on the way to the faucet. It has an automatic pilot light that stays
lit 24/7 and a pressure switch that turns the burner on when the faucet is
turned on. When the faucet is turned off the water stops flowing, the
pressure switch shuts down and the burner turns off.
Its a neat concept but I question how well they work when taking a shower
and a toilet is flushed.
Your water heater should never be outside and exposed to the elements for a
variety of reasons.
They make small 20 gal water heaters (110v) that can be installed under
kitchen cabinets, in closets, etc.
Take a stroll through Lowes and see whats happenin'.
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| "Edgar"> wrote
> I guess that will be what I end up doing. Maybe just add insulation to
> the metal shed its in.
Now I see your situation.
A blanket will run you about $10.
A roll of insulation is much more than that.
You can also put that black insulated wrap on the pipes.
If you and the other house members are away from the house during the day
most of the time I'd look seriously at a water heater timer.
They cost about $30, are easy to install (turn off that breaker!!!) and can
save you lots of coins.
Remember, those things are *220 volts and if they're heating water
needlessly thats money out the door.
Also, check your w/h thermostats and set them at about 120 degrees.
There are usually 2 of them and they are behind little panels on the side of
the w/h.
Again, turn off that breaker!
*220v will knock you flat on your XXX.
**My current gas fired w/h is only 110v.
| |
| Bob Morrison 2006-11-16, 1:25 pm |
| In a previous post Don wrote...
> If you and the other house members are away from the house during the day
> most of the time I'd look seriously at a water heater timer.
> They cost about $30, are easy to install (turn off that breaker!!!) and can
> save you lots of coins.
>
I concur with Don's thinking on this. Even though my wife and both work
from home we still put the W/H on an timer. Cut the electric bill by 10%.
the time paid for itself in 2 months of electric bills. And there are
easily overridden if you need to do a lot of laundry or are having company
for a few days and need more hot water.
Make sure you turn the breaker off before installing.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
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| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ejgg1r016sh@news4.newsguy.com...
> "Edgar"> wrote
>
> Now I see your situation.
> A blanket will run you about $10.
> A roll of insulation is much more than that.
> You can also put that black insulated wrap on the pipes.
> If you and the other house members are away from the house during the day
> most of the time I'd look seriously at a water heater timer.
> They cost about $30, are easy to install (turn off that breaker!!!) and
> can save you lots of coins.
> Remember, those things are *220 volts and if they're heating water
> needlessly thats money out the door.
> Also, check your w/h thermostats and set them at about 120 degrees.
> There are usually 2 of them and they are behind little panels on the side
> of the w/h.
> Again, turn off that breaker!
> *220v will knock you flat on your XXX.
>
> **My current gas fired w/h is only 110v.
>
>
Thanks everyone for the advice. This home ownership thing sure does keep
you busy and on your toes.
--
Edgar
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| "Edgar"> wrote
> This home ownership thing sure does keep you busy and on your toes.
LOL
Is santa gonna bring you a string trimmer for xmas?
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| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:eji8md0ds3@news3.newsguy.com...
> "Edgar"> wrote
>
> LOL
> Is santa gonna bring you a string trimmer for xmas?
>
Already picked up a lower priced one, cause our front yard is pretty small,
and our backyard is dirt right now. Buying cheap means a shorter length
which means bent over more, which means back sore more after I'm done. Oh
well. Basically I'm exchanging all my electronic presents for Home Depot
Gift cards now I think  .
--
Edgar
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| Kris Krieger 2006-11-20, 5:26 pm |
| Bob Morrison <SpamFighter@junk.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1fc62422253b404f989ccb@news.west.earthlink.net:
> In a previous post Don wrote...
>
> I concur with Don's thinking on this. Even though my wife and both
> work from home we still put the W/H on an timer. Cut the electric
> bill by 10%. the time paid for itself in 2 months of electric bills.
> And there are easily overridden if you need to do a lot of laundry or
> are having company for a few days and need more hot water.
>
> Make sure you turn the breaker off before installing.
>
How do you put a gas WH on a timer - the pilot would always need to be re-
lit, wouldn't it? Or is yours electric?
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