Architecture - Problem with new house

Author

Problem with new house

Sasquatch

2006-11-21, 8:25 pm

We've got a serious problem with our new house. While visiting the job
site today, I noticed the first floor seemed to be sagging in one
corner of the master bedroom. I couldn't believe it. I told the
foreman, and he started checking it out. He went down in the basement
and I could hear him yelling to the other guys. They were down there
for about a half hour, and when I went down to see what was going on
they met me at the steps and told me they had to work on something, and
that they'd call me later. They never called, so I went back out and
confronted them in the basement. I couldn't believe what I found. It
was worse than when I left. Then entire floor had caved in. They were
blaming it on the architect, who was already out there, saying the
beams he specified were not adequate, and the architect was blaming it
on them, saying that it should have been assumed that they also needed
to use certain joists, blah, blah, blah... Bottom line is that the
entire mess is caving in, and the builder says he wants nothing to do
with it, and he's quitting the job. What do I do now?!? Somebody
please help!

- John

Junior Brown

2006-11-21, 8:25 pm

Yeah, cave ins can really suck.
How did your facias & trim work out? Aluminum, vinyl?
..

"Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164152797.203413.101290@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> We've got a serious problem with our new house. While visiting the job
> site today, I noticed the first floor seemed to be sagging in one
> corner of the master bedroom. I couldn't believe it. I told the
> foreman, and he started checking it out. He went down in the basement
> and I could hear him yelling to the other guys. They were down there
> for about a half hour, and when I went down to see what was going on
> they met me at the steps and told me they had to work on something, and
> that they'd call me later. They never called, so I went back out and
> confronted them in the basement. I couldn't believe what I found. It
> was worse than when I left. Then entire floor had caved in. They were
> blaming it on the architect, who was already out there, saying the
> beams he specified were not adequate, and the architect was blaming it
> on them, saying that it should have been assumed that they also needed
> to use certain joists, blah, blah, blah... Bottom line is that the
> entire mess is caving in, and the builder says he wants nothing to do
> with it, and he's quitting the job. What do I do now?!? Somebody
> please help!
>
> - John
>

Sasquatch

2006-11-21, 8:25 pm

Fascia and trim?!? There is no fascia and trim! It's a big pile of
joists, 2x6s, and 2x4s! And I was just out there again and noticed a
huge crack in the front foundation wall. I don't know if it was caused
by the cave-in or what. I'll try to take a photo tomorrow and post it.
You won't believe it. At this point we'd have to start from scratch,
but the builder quit, so what, do we have to pay someone to salvage all
the lumber and *then* start over? And what about the foundation? And
we just got done paying our builder for all the work done to this
point, and we've got nothing to show for it! What the hell are we
going to do?!?

- John

Junior Brown wrote:[color=darkred]
> Yeah, cave ins can really suck.
> How did your facias & trim work out? Aluminum, vinyl?
> .
>
>
>
> "Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1164152797.203413.101290@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

John

2006-11-21, 8:25 pm

Seems as though your going to have to jack-up your house and fix the area.
Without pictures how can we help?

--

--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
JOHNNY
Drafting Technician
email: johnny_blazer@safe-mail.net
--------------------------------------

"Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164152797.203413.101290@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> We've got a serious problem with our new house. While visiting the job
> site today, I noticed the first floor seemed to be sagging in one
> corner of the master bedroom. I couldn't believe it. I told the
> foreman, and he started checking it out. He went down in the basement
> and I could hear him yelling to the other guys. They were down there
> for about a half hour, and when I went down to see what was going on
> they met me at the steps and told me they had to work on something, and
> that they'd call me later. They never called, so I went back out and
> confronted them in the basement. I couldn't believe what I found. It
> was worse than when I left. Then entire floor had caved in. They were
> blaming it on the architect, who was already out there, saying the
> beams he specified were not adequate, and the architect was blaming it
> on them, saying that it should have been assumed that they also needed
> to use certain joists, blah, blah, blah... Bottom line is that the
> entire mess is caving in, and the builder says he wants nothing to do
> with it, and he's quitting the job. What do I do now?!? Somebody
> please help!
>
> - John
>

Don

2006-11-21, 8:25 pm

"Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164152797.203413.101290@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> We've got a serious problem with our new house. While visiting the job
> site today, I noticed the first floor seemed to be sagging in one
> corner of the master bedroom. I couldn't believe it. I told the
> foreman, and he started checking it out. He went down in the basement
> and I could hear him yelling to the other guys. They were down there
> for about a half hour, and when I went down to see what was going on
> they met me at the steps and told me they had to work on something, and
> that they'd call me later. They never called, so I went back out and
> confronted them in the basement. I couldn't believe what I found. It
> was worse than when I left. Then entire floor had caved in. They were
> blaming it on the architect, who was already out there, saying the
> beams he specified were not adequate, and the architect was blaming it
> on them, saying that it should have been assumed that they also needed
> to use certain joists, blah, blah, blah... Bottom line is that the
> entire mess is caving in, and the builder says he wants nothing to do
> with it, and he's quitting the job. What do I do now?!? Somebody
> please help!
>
> - John

Remember this from just 2 days ago? :

"Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1163927205.925904.218120@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> "Whoever is responsible for the design" would be me, since it's my
> house. I've hired people to assist with various parts of the design
> process, but ultimately I'm responsible for it, and I'm the one that
> makes the decisions. Likewise, for this trim decision, I will seek
> advice from experts, including paid advice, but it will be my decision.

>
> I'm getting along with them just fine. The only problems I'm having
> are caused by mentally ill unemployeed dudes harrassing me in Usenet
> discussion groups.

Maybe that curved Fypon window trim was more than the beams could bear.

Your wife may be kicking you to the curb sooner than expected, now that your
*architect* and contractor have dumped your stupid XXX. LOL

I gotta say, you have gall to come back into this group whining and crying
after all the abuse you've heaped.

What goes around...... LOL

Wait a minute, maybe an internet stalker came over there in the middle of
the night and undermined the foundation.

Sasquatch

2006-11-21, 9:25 pm

I never thought of that. I wouldn't put it past you psychos. If foul
play *was* involved, I'll find out. Maybe that's what you meant when
you said my "life would be cut short," or whatever that psycho comment
was. Maybe you were in town to "snipe" me like you said in the past,
and you couldn't find where we're staying while our house is being
built, so you just sabotaged the house!?! You better hope that's not
the case, boy. *Pray* that's not the case. Pray to your feeble-minded
god.

By the way, here's an interesting quote from one of your past posts, a
reply to one of mine...

"You started a snipe hunt and you don't even know you're on it."

Combine that with the "life cut short" comment, and I'm starting to
*really* wonder about you, psycho.

I'll have the rubble investigated for sabotage tomorrow!

- John

Don wrote:
> "Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1164152797.203413.101290@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Remember this from just 2 days ago? :
>
> "Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1163927205.925904.218120@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Maybe that curved Fypon window trim was more than the beams could bear.
>
> Your wife may be kicking you to the curb sooner than expected, now that your
> *architect* and contractor have dumped your stupid XXX. LOL
>
> I gotta say, you have gall to come back into this group whining and crying
> after all the abuse you've heaped.
>
> What goes around...... LOL
>
> Wait a minute, maybe an internet stalker came over there in the middle of
> the night and undermined the foundation.

RicodJour

2006-11-21, 9:25 pm

Don

2006-11-22, 3:25 am

Boy, you're completely delusional.
I never said any of those things so you obviously have me confused with
another poster you've flamed. LOL

Too bad your loser house didn't collapse on your loser brain. LOL

"Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164163074.432383.312570@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I never thought of that. I wouldn't put it past you psychos. If foul
> play *was* involved, I'll find out. Maybe that's what you meant when
> you said my "life would be cut short," or whatever that psycho comment
> was. Maybe you were in town to "snipe" me like you said in the past,
> and you couldn't find where we're staying while our house is being
> built, so you just sabotaged the house!?! You better hope that's not
> the case, boy. *Pray* that's not the case. Pray to your feeble-minded
> god.
>
> By the way, here's an interesting quote from one of your past posts, a
> reply to one of mine...
>
> "You started a snipe hunt and you don't even know you're on it."
>
> Combine that with the "life cut short" comment, and I'm starting to
> *really* wonder about you, psycho.
>
> I'll have the rubble investigated for sabotage tomorrow!
>
> - John
>
> Don wrote:
>

Sasquatch

2006-11-22, 3:25 am

Oh, yeah, I guess it was RicodJour. I knew it was one of you psychos.
The point is, you're both psycho Internet stalkers. Here's the link I
was referring to...

http://groups.google.com/group/alt....d8784190bd4371c

"You started a snipe hunt and you don't even know you're on it."

I like your bravado, though, like, "Hey, I didn't make that psycho
comment, you liar! I just made all those other psycho comments!" It's
like a stinky turd complaining about being confused with another stinky
turd. "Hey, I'm not *that* stinky! I'm just stinky." A turd is a
turd. Point is, you've both made such comments, plus the continued
stalking, harrassment, etc. You can deny it all you like. The record
speaks for itself.

I'll post a photo of the rubble tomorrow.

- John

So, yeah, you're a couple of psychos.
Don wrote:[color=darkred]
> Boy, you're completely delusional.
> I never said any of those things so you obviously have me confused with
> another poster you've flamed. LOL
>
> Too bad your loser house didn't collapse on your loser brain. LOL
>
>
> "Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1164163074.432383.312570@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-22, 3:25 am

Sasquatch wrote:
> Fascia and trim?!? There is no fascia and trim! It's a big pile of
> joists, 2x6s, and 2x4s! And I was just out there again and noticed a
> huge crack in the front foundation wall. I don't know if it was caused
> by the cave-in or what. I'll try to take a photo tomorrow and post it.
> You won't believe it. At this point we'd have to start from scratch,
> but the builder quit, so what, do we have to pay someone to salvage all
> the lumber and *then* start over? And what about the foundation? And
> we just got done paying our builder for all the work done to this
> point, and we've got nothing to show for it! What the hell are we
> going to do?!?
> - John

I've been puzzling on this John, usually a building
is designed and built so structural failure can't
happen, unless something quite extraordinary
fails which obviously did. Sounds like the master
bedroom floor support failed.
Beginning at the bottom, check the foundation floor
for cracks, if it's ok then everything will be fine.
The builder and the architect aren't familiar with
every detail of the plan you bought, so something
may have been overlooked by both, assuming the
other figured it out, see my recent thread "OOPS".
You, the architect and the builder need to know
is what went wrong, then be more careful next time.
[color=darkred]
> Junior Brown wrote:

I nearly had one, built a building in a swampy
location, with an adjustable foundation to
allow for settling and heaving, then the worst
happened, major rain followed by snow and
more snow, so the supports began sinking.
Fortunately the beams were over built and
took the extraordinary load, those beams
were based on aircraft spar principles, 16"
deep 1/2" plywood, with a pair of 2x4's top
and bottom, glued, clamped and screwed,
making a 24' "I" beam.
[color=darkred]

:-) Ken

Don

2006-11-22, 9:26 am

"Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> The builder and the architect aren't familiar with
> every detail of the plan you bought, so something
> may have been overlooked by both,

Yeah, thats the inherent problem with cheapassed store-bought plans.
The cost to go through and validate every single nuance by competent people
is more than the cost of having it designed from scratch.

When I design a brand new building all the *major* issues are accounted for
in the Preliminary Design process.
Then in the Construction Drawing process its a simple matter of filling in
all the detail work, much like production drafting.

My dimensioning system is so comprehensive that everything from the
foundation to roof peak is a constant built-in process of redundent cross
checking so that its almost impossible for a dimensional error to happen. I
have 3 long term contractor clients that are quick to point out to their
clients that in the 20+ years they've been doing business with me they have
NEVER encountered a dimensional error on any of the hundreds of plans I've
prepared for them.

I would never, ever roll out a set of plans before a client without knowing
ALL the most intricate of details, and there's potentially thousands of them
in any particular building.

In summation there really is no cost cutting that can occur with stockplans,
all that can happen is that the risk factor can expand, and that is what
Squashed-sack is presently experiencing and it couldn't have happened to a
nicer person.

Justice is its own reward......

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-22, 9:26 am

Don wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> Yeah, thats the inherent problem with cheapassed store-bought plans.
> The cost to go through and validate every single nuance by competent people
> is more than the cost of having it designed from scratch.

Right, when I design even a cabinet - which a house
actually is - I program in my minds eye the construction
process to obtain the final product.
I think architecture is verb, not a noun. What do you think?

> When I design a brand new building all the *major* issues are accounted for
> in the Preliminary Design process.
> Then in the Construction Drawing process its a simple matter of filling in
> all the detail work, much like production drafting.
>
> My dimensioning system is so comprehensive that everything from the
> foundation to roof peak is a constant built-in process of redundent cross
> checking so that its almost impossible for a dimensional error to happen. I
> have 3 long term contractor clients that are quick to point out to their
> clients that in the 20+ years they've been doing business with me they have
> NEVER encountered a dimensional error on any of the hundreds of plans I've
> prepared for them.

That'll work til govmint changes the Pythagorean
Theorem, there's an a-hole born everyday.

> I would never, ever roll out a set of plans before a client without knowing
> ALL the most intricate of details, and there's potentially thousands of them
> in any particular building.
>
> In summation there really is no cost cutting that can occur with stockplans,
> all that can happen is that the risk factor can expand, and that is what
> Squashed-sack is presently experiencing and it couldn't have happened to a
> nicer person.

I get a sense of management failure, Sassy wanted
top dog position, possibly micro-managing with no
experience, and the builder and architect defer to
the "boss" instead of being extra responsible and
integrated.

> Justice is its own reward......

Let's have a look at those pix, Rico thinks Sassy's
trolling, that is making up the disaster, we'll see.
Ken
PS: Sassy's accusations are symptomatic of a
mass paranoia, when even intelligent people throw
away reason and embrace fear as the operational
reality by exageration of danger, people and govmint
are buying into that programmation.

Life simply requires courage, but the govmint
actively dis-courages kids as soon as they can
in the public school system, so it's no wonder
they replace courage by fear, but then the masses
need some monolithic thing to alleviate fear, which
is often govmint and/or religion, and as a result, the
more the mind control occurs, the better people feel,
and the less people need to be responsible for
the ownership of their own emotions and feelings.
From that, people end up rejecting there own
feelings and common-sense, and march step
like gooses and creativity is stifled, but creativity
is the basis for progress and progress is what
makes us human.
Cheers
Ken S. Tucker

Michael Bulatovich

2006-11-22, 9:26 am

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ek1ehu0q7h@news4.newsguy.com...
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> Yeah, thats the inherent problem with cheapassed store-bought plans.
> The cost to go through and validate every single nuance by competent
> people is more than the cost of having it designed from scratch.
>
> When I design a brand new building all the *major* issues are accounted
> for in the Preliminary Design process.
> Then in the Construction Drawing process its a simple matter of filling in
> all the detail work, much like production drafting.
>
> My dimensioning system is so comprehensive that everything from the
> foundation to roof peak is a constant built-in process of redundent cross
> checking so that its almost impossible for a dimensional error to happen.

You're assuming it's the drawings. I'm assuming it's the site. I've never
had anything significant go wrong on one of my jobs-dimensional or
otherwise.
Maybe I've hit a 18 year lucky streak....I dunno.
--

MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

Jude Alexander

2006-11-22, 9:26 am

"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:ek1jir02qlm@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:ek1ehu0q7h@news4.newsguy.com...
>
> You're assuming it's the drawings. I'm assuming it's the site. I've never
> had anything significant go wrong on one of my jobs-dimensional or
> otherwise.
> Maybe I've hit a 18 year lucky streak....I dunno.

Also everybody is assuming it's a real house.

Sasquatch

2006-11-22, 9:26 am

It's a moot point now. There was a "fire" at the job site last night.
Total loss. The only thing left standing is the garage walls and
trusses, but they're burned, too. Luckily we're insured. I don't want
anything to do with that site anymore, though. We'll probably just get
out from underneath it and hopefully break even.

Michael Bulatovich wrote:
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:ek1ehu0q7h@news4.newsguy.com...
>
> You're assuming it's the drawings. I'm assuming it's the site. I've never
> had anything significant go wrong on one of my jobs-dimensional or
> otherwise.
> Maybe I've hit a 18 year lucky streak....I dunno.
> --
>
>
> MichaelB
> www.michaelbulatovich.ca

Junior Brown

2006-11-22, 9:26 am

What about the trim, was it saved?

"Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164205136.639136.109380@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> It's a moot point now. There was a "fire" at the job site last night.
> Total loss. The only thing left standing is the garage walls and
> trusses, but they're burned, too. Luckily we're insured. I don't want
> anything to do with that site anymore, though. We'll probably just get
> out from underneath it and hopefully break even.
>
> Michael Bulatovich wrote:
>

Don

2006-11-22, 9:26 am

"Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> PS: Sassy's accusations are symptomatic of a
> mass paranoia, when even intelligent people throw
> away reason and embrace fear as the operational
> reality by exageration of danger, people and govmint
> are buying into that programmation.
>
> Life simply requires courage, but the govmint
> actively dis-courages kids as soon as they can
> in the public school system, so it's no wonder
> they replace courage by fear, but then the masses
> need some monolithic thing to alleviate fear, which
> is often govmint and/or religion, and as a result, the
> more the mind control occurs, the better people feel,
> and the less people need to be responsible for
> the ownership of their own emotions and feelings.
> From that, people end up rejecting there own
> feelings and common-sense, and march step
> like gooses and creativity is stifled, but creativity
> is the basis for progress and progress is what
> makes us human.

Right, and full blown altruism fills the void.

Don

2006-11-22, 1:25 pm

"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:ek1jir02qlm@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote
>
> You're assuming it's the drawings. I'm assuming it's the site. I've never
> had anything significant go wrong on one of my jobs-dimensional or
> otherwise.
> Maybe I've hit a 18 year lucky streak....I dunno.

Its usually easier and less expensive to change the plans rather than change
the site.
Most of the stockplans clients have brought to me over the years were
designed with an *up north* perspective, that is, they had basement stairs,
etc.
That won't work for a SW Florida house. THAT must be accounted for in the
planes as a set of stairs starts as a hole in the floor and all the adjacent
loads must be transferred to the footings. If I'm not mistaken squashed-sack
had major issues TWICE with the stair system in his house and they were
*fixed* on the fly in the field. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the MBR
corner collapse is associated with the common wall to the problematic
stairs.

Here's what I suspect:
He bought a cheap set of stockplans and then hired a local cad jockey to
*fix em up* and the contractor is hungry so he took the whole thing on.
Then, as time goes by the contractor is weary from squashed-sacks incessant
whining (you didn't assume his whining was limited to these few newsgroups
he's spamming did you?) and now that a critical issue has occurred directly
as a result of sacks wife hen-pecking him and his subsequent micro-managing,
supported by his extreme ignorance and false arrogance, well....this is the
result.

He should have:
Hired a professional designer with extensive experience in the type of
building he was interested in and then had that designer refer him to a
competent builder.

I use a 2 step process:
Preliminary design =
floorplans, front & rear exterior elevations, site plan.
The client then meets with the builder (one he already knows or one that I
refer him to) to see what the ballpark costs will be and any other
considerations.
If there are any issues at all at that point they MUST be worked out at that
time, through corrections (revisions) to the drawings or to the site.
Only after the Preliminary Design is approved and signed by the client do I
move on to step 2.

Construction Drawings =
All of the necessary drawings to secure a building permit and convey the
minimal information to the builder and subcontractors and material suppliers
to construct the building. I normally don't get involved with full-blown
specifications except for the extremely complex or large homes I design.
I do all of my own structural drawings as well as mechanicals, plumbing and
electricals and lighting and this includes all truss/roof/floor designs with
all components, anchors, fasteners, beam sizes and materials, etc. I leave
very little to chance. If there is a chink in the system you can bet your
bottom dollar there's a client out there somewhere ready to take advantage
of it, so I give them very little ammo i this regard. People are vastly
different so this is a constantly evolving process.

It is not uncommon for more than 100 people to be involved with any given
home that I design and if anyone of them miscontrues the info on the plans
than costs can and do quickly go through the moon and people can be harmed
monetarily and physically. I won't go into the client mental pressures
involved with the whole thing as that is where I put my marriage consultant
hat on. Thats one more thing that I didn't learn in school but need to know
to be successful.

A residential designer is a jack of all trades and a master of one.

RicodJour

2006-11-22, 1:25 pm

Sasquatch wrote:
> It's a moot point now. There was a "fire" at the job site last night.
> Total loss. The only thing left standing is the garage walls and
> trusses, but they're burned, too. Luckily we're insured. I don't want
> anything to do with that site anymore, though. We'll probably just get
> out from underneath it and hopefully break even.

Unlikely. Once the insurance investigators look into the oddly timed,
highly suspicious fire (if in fact it did occur), you'll be lucky if
you don't serve time in jail.

There's the old saying, pride goeth before the fall. That's from
Proverbs - not being a religious person, I'd never read those passages.
Check it out.
http://bible.cc/proverbs/16-18.htm
Rather ironic that they specifically mention plans, no?

If you hadn't been such a dick, I might have been inclined to point out
your building's shortcomings, rather than your personal shortcomings.
I might have dropped tidbits for further investigation, like "stepped
footings", "excavation depth to remove all organics", and "using sawn
lumber beams to support an engineered floor system is stupid". I guess
that's a moot point now.

Keep updating the web site. It's become far more entertaining lately.

R

Michael Bulatovich

2006-11-22, 1:25 pm

"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:1164212363.415329.46200@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Sasquatch wrote:
>
> Unlikely. Once the insurance investigators look into the oddly timed,
> highly suspicious fire (if in fact it did occur), you'll be lucky if
> you don't serve time in jail.

Sure is strange timing....
--

MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

Michael Bulatovich

2006-11-22, 1:25 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ek1p070b7e@news2.newsguy.com...
> Preliminary design =
> floorplans, front & rear exterior elevations, site plan.
> The client then meets with the builder (one he already knows or one that I
> refer him to) to see what the ballpark costs will be and any other
> considerations.
> If there are any issues at all at that point they MUST be worked out at
> that time, through corrections (revisions) to the drawings or to the site.
> Only after the Preliminary Design is approved and signed by the client do
> I move on to step 2.
>
> Construction Drawings =
> All of the necessary drawings to secure a building permit and convey the
> minimal information to the builder and subcontractors and material
> suppliers to construct the building. I normally don't get involved with
> full-blown specifications except for the extremely complex or large homes
> I design.

Exactly the same process here.

Don

2006-11-22, 1:25 pm

Hmmm....Squashed-sacks post below hasn't shown up on my server.
Maybe the satelite burned down too?

A floor partially collapses and then that night there's a fire?
Yeah, right.....

"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:1164212363.415329.46200@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Sasquatch wrote:
>
> Unlikely. Once the insurance investigators look into the oddly timed,
> highly suspicious fire (if in fact it did occur), you'll be lucky if
> you don't serve time in jail.
>
> There's the old saying, pride goeth before the fall. That's from
> Proverbs - not being a religious person, I'd never read those passages.
> Check it out.
> http://bible.cc/proverbs/16-18.htm
> Rather ironic that they specifically mention plans, no?
>
> If you hadn't been such a dick, I might have been inclined to point out
> your building's shortcomings, rather than your personal shortcomings.
> I might have dropped tidbits for further investigation, like "stepped
> footings", "excavation depth to remove all organics", and "using sawn
> lumber beams to support an engineered floor system is stupid". I guess
> that's a moot point now.
>
> Keep updating the web site. It's become far more entertaining lately.
>
> R
>

RicodJour

2006-11-22, 1:25 pm

Michael Bulatovich wrote:
> "RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
>
>
> Sure is strange timing....

If you mean strange as in criminal. Sure. Strange as in numbingly
stupid for posting what essentially constitutes a confession. Yep.
Strange as in I'm-still-convinced-the-guy-is-a-troll. Absolutely.

R

RicodJour

2006-11-22, 1:25 pm

Don wrote:
> Hmmm....Squashed-sacks post below hasn't shown up on my server.
> Maybe the satelite burned down too?
>
> A floor partially collapses and then that night there's a fire?
> Yeah, right.....

Kind of odd that Squatch just _had_ to run and post here after learning
of the fire.

There are a few possible scenarios.
1). Total bullshit about the collapse and fire. Troll attempt.
2). He set the fire himself, and is planning to blame it on that guy
online who threatened him with a snipe hunt. Can you imagine the
investigators' faces if he started spewing that stuff? I didn't think
there was a person beyond the age of about 18 that didn't know what a
snipe hunt is.
3). Meds ran out.
4). If there really was a fire, I think you win the pool, Don - his
wife's going to be booting him to the street.

R

Don

2006-11-22, 1:25 pm

"RicodJour"> wrote
> Michael Bulatovich wrote:
>
> If you mean strange as in criminal. Sure. Strange as in numbingly
> stupid for posting what essentially constitutes a confession. Yep.
> Strange as in I'm-still-convinced-the-guy-is-a-troll. Absolutely.

It seemed like that idiot immolated in about a weeks time.
Maybe my calling him *Wordblind* did the trick. heh
That goes back before your time here Rico.

Pierre Levesque, AIA

2006-11-22, 1:25 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ek26q90r28@news2.newsguy.com...
> "RicodJour"> wrote
>
> It seemed like that idiot immolated in about a weeks time.
> Maybe my calling him *Wordblind* did the trick. heh
> That goes back before your time here Rico.
Ugh... now that was a time of troll to the extreme.

Pierre Levesque, AIA

2006-11-22, 1:25 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:ek24t30od2@news2.newsguy.com...
> Hmmm....Squashed-sacks post below hasn't shown up on my server.
> Maybe the satelite burned down too?
>
> A floor partially collapses and then that night there's a fire?
> Yeah, right.....
>

All the accurate descriptions and pictures proves that it really happened...
Oh uh... no pictures... never mind....

>
> "RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
> news:1164212363.415329.46200@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

RicodJour wrote:
> Don wrote:
>
> Kind of odd that Squatch just _had_ to run and post here after learning
> of the fire.
>
> There are a few possible scenarios.
> 1). Total bullshit about the collapse and fire. Troll attempt.
> 2). He set the fire himself, and is planning to blame it on that guy
> online who threatened him with a snipe hunt. Can you imagine the
> investigators' faces if he started spewing that stuff? I didn't think
> there was a person beyond the age of about 18 that didn't know what a
> snipe hunt is.
> 3). Meds ran out.
> 4). If there really was a fire, I think you win the pool, Don - his
> wife's going to be booting him to the street.
> R

John's blog has the architect he used (Metz)
and the location on the permit, Darlington WI,
that's easy to read, and the builder.
Someone can call the local fire department,
for information, nothing sleazy about that, or
even the architect, doubt there's anything
confidential about the whole thing.
Ken

Sasquatch

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

Boy, I got you guys riled up! Usually the most exciting thing going on
is today's episode of Ophrah and catching up on your soaps!

It's a prank, you morons!

- John

Pierre Levesque, AIA wrote:[color=darkred]
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:ek24t30od2@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> All the accurate descriptions and pictures proves that it really happened...
> Oh uh... no pictures... never mind....
>
>
>
>

RicodJour

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

Pierre Levesque, AIA wrote:
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
>
> All the accurate descriptions and pictures proves that it really happened...
> Oh uh... no pictures... never mind....

I got a kick out of that, too. Someone with zero construction
knowledge trying to fake a collapse. Hence, my initial single word
post, "Troll."

Squatch is of that rare breed of idiot that believes in burning a
bridge while they're still crossing it.

Ken took the jamoke under his wing - apparently projecting Ken's own
creative self-build experiment onto a run of the mill idiot building a
run of the mill house (with aborted stairway).

"But in the end truth will out."
The Merchant of Venice (2:2)

R

Sasquatch

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

RicodJour wrote:
> Squatch is of that rare breed of idiot that believes in burning a
> bridge while they're still crossing it.

There's no bridge to burn. You guys have been totally worthless to me.
The entire time I've posted to this group, there have been like 3 or 4
people who have contributed an intelligent and/or useful post. The
rest are complete wastes of breathing air. I am a novice when it comes
to construction and architecture, but I know enough to tell if someone
knows what they're talking about or not. And you guys are total
losers. It's no wonder you're hanging out here. You clearly have no
work. This is probably your feeble attempt at "social networking,"
trying to find work. What a joke. So I figured, since I'm done
wasting my time with you jokers, I might as well have a little fun with
you. And aside from a morsel of skepticism, you bought it. Dumb.
Hilarious.

- John

RicodJour

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

Don wrote:
> "RicodJour"> wrote
>
> It seemed like that idiot immolated in about a weeks time.
> Maybe my calling him *Wordblind* did the trick. heh
> That goes back before your time here Rico.

Not so. I've been around since the mountains were young and sharp. I
recall the troglodyte in question.

If you want to get a real kick in the pants from a blast from the past,
check out what AO!!!!!! is posting these days. Perfectly appropriate
and coherent quotes from others. You'd never "recognize" the guy.

Indeed!!!!!!

R

RicodJour

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

Sasquatch wrote:
> RicodJour wrote:
>
> There's no bridge to burn. You guys have been totally worthless to me.
> The entire time I've posted to this group, there have been like 3 or 4
> people who have contributed an intelligent and/or useful post. The
> rest are complete wastes of breathing air. I am a novice when it comes
> to construction and architecture, but I know enough to tell if someone
> knows what they're talking about or not. And you guys are total
> losers. It's no wonder you're hanging out here. You clearly have no
> work. This is probably your feeble attempt at "social networking,"
> trying to find work. What a joke. So I figured, since I'm done
> wasting my time with you jokers, I might as well have a little fun with
> you. And aside from a morsel of skepticism, you bought it. Dumb.
> Hilarious.
> - John

John, if anyone gave a poop about your yarn,
a 30 second call would satisfy curiousity, but
who cares, I don't, it's like debating a TV show,
complete with fictional scenario's.
Indeed we're playing Mutt and Jeff with you,
didn't you know that? To bad you folded, we
called your bluff, the cats were enjoying the
mouse. Anyway get your blog updated, the
real fun has yet to begin!
Ken

Pierre Levesque, AIA

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

"Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164228183.359627.314620@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> RicodJour wrote:
>
> There's no bridge to burn. You guys have been totally worthless to me.
> The entire time I've posted to this group, there have been like 3 or 4
> people who have contributed an intelligent and/or useful post. The
> rest are complete wastes of breathing air. I am a novice when it comes
> to construction and architecture, but I know enough to tell if someone
> knows what they're talking about or not. And you guys are total
> losers. It's no wonder you're hanging out here. You clearly have no
> work. This is probably your feeble attempt at "social networking,"
> trying to find work. What a joke. So I figured, since I'm done
> wasting my time with you jokers, I might as well have a little fun with
> you. And aside from a morsel of skepticism, you bought it. Dumb.
> Hilarious.
>
> - John
>

Nice try noob but it won't fly here since it's really easy to... Oh never
mind... see you around... PLONK

Pierre Levesque, AIA

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:1164230724.879091.208740@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Don wrote:
>
> Not so. I've been around since the mountains were young and sharp. I
> recall the troglodyte in question.
>
> If you want to get a real kick in the pants from a blast from the past,
> check out what AO!!!!!! is posting these days. Perfectly appropriate
> and coherent quotes from others. You'd never "recognize" the guy.
>
> Indeed!!!!!!
>

They have computers in Gitmo?

RicodJour

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

On Nov 22, 4:31 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote:
>
> Indeed we're playing Mutt and Jeff with you,
> didn't you know that? To bad you folded, we
> called your bluff, the cats were enjoying the
> mouse. Anyway get your blog updated, the
> real fun has yet to begin!

Hey! You said we'd be playing good cop bad cop and I was supposed to
be playing the bad cop. Now you tell me I'm supposed to be Mutt?
Jeff?

Can't we just go back to the old days and just all of us pistol whip
the guy? It was so much simpler then...

R

Michael Bulatovich

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

You mean <plonk>.

"Sasquatch" <linux4all@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164225868.824203.42460@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> Boy, I got you guys riled up! Usually the most exciting thing going on
> is today's episode of Ophrah and catching up on your soaps!
>
> It's a prank, you morons!

Sasquatch

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

Wow! You're starting to sound like Michael Richards, a.k.a. Cosmo
Kramer on Seinfeld, recently in the news for similar remarks. "50
years ago you'd be upside down with a fork in your XXX!" Real good.
I'm not sure you'd like to be back in the "good ol' days." You might
be the first one dragged around town by your genitals by a homophobic
Texan in a pick-up truck.

RicodJour wrote:
>
> Hey! You said we'd be playing good cop bad cop and I was supposed to
> be playing the bad cop. Now you tell me I'm supposed to be Mutt?
> Jeff?
>
> Can't we just go back to the old days and just all of us pistol whip
> the guy? It was so much simpler then...
>
> R

Ken S. Tucker

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

RicodJour wrote:
> On Nov 22, 4:31 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote:
>
> Hey! You said we'd be playing good cop bad cop and I was supposed to
> be playing the bad cop. Now you tell me I'm supposed to be Mutt?
> Jeff?

You can be the good guy next time and I'll be
the ugly guy, and Don can be the bad guy.
Maybe Jojo could add some sexual tension,
unless I get to be an ugly homo.

> Can't we just go back to the old days and just all of us pistol whip
> the guy? It was so much simpler then...

NO! We need to trap the mouse, and disect
it's brain! How many times have I explained
that??? I now know more about Sassy's
brain than it knows, [insert hideous laf here].
Ken

Don

2006-11-22, 5:25 pm

"RicodJour"> wrote
> Don wrote:
>
> Not so. I've been around since the mountains were young and sharp. I
> recall the troglodyte in question.
>
> If you want to get a real kick in the pants from a blast from the past,
> check out what AO!!!!!! is posting these days. Perfectly appropriate
> and coherent quotes from others. You'd never "recognize" the guy.
>
> Indeed!!!!!!

Well, well, well.
Whats our favorite arab up to these days?

Warm Worm

2006-11-22, 8:25 pm

Sasquatch wrote:
> Boy, I got you guys riled up!

Who exactly got riled up?

> Usually the most exciting thing going on is today's episode of Ophrah and catching up on
> your soaps!

But you keep referring to TV, though... Dateline, Oprah, Seinfeld...
How much of it are you watching?

> Wow! You're starting to sound like Michael Richards, a.k.a. Cosmo
> Kramer on Seinfeld, recently in the news for similar remarks. "50
> years ago you'd be upside down with a fork in your XXX!"

Thanks for the analogy...

> It's a prank, you morons!

....And it looks to have been done out of spite or malice, perhaps very
much like Michael Richards' "prank". And by the looks of it, he seems
to have gotten pretty riled up.

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