Architecture - Concrete: staining over pre-existing color...?

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Concrete: staining over pre-existing color...?

Kris Krieger

2006-09-07, 1:25 pm

Does anyone have expereince with concrete stain?

I'm wondering how deeply concrete stain would penetrate something like
grout, and whether the stain can be thinned to behave more like a glaze,
than a paint.

The reason I'm asking:
They put in the pool coping, and the tile doodz did a really beautiful
job - but someone had up and decided to use grout of a brick-red color
that IMO is ugly on its own, and a lot worse given that the tumbled
stone coping (i.e., $$$$...) is a neutral blend of taupes, greys, tans,
off-whites, and hints of umber, which I'd picked specifically to go with
the colors in the house brick. I'd thought I was getting standard grey
grout, which is what the morter on the house is, and would therefore
have matched. Or, if I could have gotten a colored grout, nobody had
mentioned it and I never chose one. So I dunno who chose this absurd
red-mud color, all I know is that, the more I look at it, the more I
hate it.

Anyhoo, so I am thinking about concrete stain and suggested the
possibility to the pool poeple. I had picked up a Quickrete "available
stain colors" chart, and called the listed number for their Product Info
line. They told me that, yup, grout is a cement/concrete material, and
the stain would take (tho' I don't know how deeply it penetrates, and
they couldn't answer because I couldn't tell the the specific grout
make-up). I experimented with a blob of the excess dried grout that I'd
picked up off the ground, and found that a glaze made with acrylic art
paints matching one of the colors on the color chart would neutralize
the mud-color and make it more of a neutral umber or burnt sienna type
of color.

But, the stain probably does not behave the same as does the stain, so
I'm wondering about the behavior of concrete stain.

TIA

!

- K.

Bob Morrison

2006-09-07, 1:25 pm

In a previous post Kris Krieger wrote...
> But, the stain probably does not behave the same as does the stain, so
> I'm wondering about the behavior of concrete stain.
>

Kris:

My understanding is that concrete stain is pretty permanent. I would
think that red would be a difficult color to stain over unless you pick
some color like dark brown or black.

One option I can think of is try a bleach on the red grout and then try
concrete stain. However, since this is for an pool application I'm
betting the grout is resistant to bleach, so your only other option is to
chip out the grout and replace it with one of the desired color.

--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com

Don

2006-09-07, 8:25 pm

"Bob Morrison"> wrote
> My understanding is that concrete stain is pretty permanent. I would
> think that red would be a difficult color to stain over unless you pick
> some color like dark brown or black.
>
> One option I can think of is try a bleach on the red grout and then try
> concrete stain. However, since this is for an pool application I'm
> betting the grout is resistant to bleach, so your only other option is to
> chip out the grout and replace it with one of the desired color.

I'm thinking the grout color is integral, all the way through, thats the way
mine was.
Regardless, the topmost surface of the grout would have to be removed and
new grout applied over the old.
Dremel makes a bit for removing grout but I have never used it.
I imagine this would be an arduous task.
Bleach might leach into the adjacent tiles and cause discoloration.

miamicuse

2006-09-07, 8:25 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:edq6fg09ft@news4.newsguy.com...
> "Bob Morrison"> wrote
to[color=darkred]
>
> I'm thinking the grout color is integral, all the way through, thats the
way
> mine was.
> Regardless, the topmost surface of the grout would have to be removed and
> new grout applied over the old.
> Dremel makes a bit for removing grout but I have never used it.
> I imagine this would be an arduous task.
> Bleach might leach into the adjacent tiles and cause discoloration.
>
>

This will be tough. I have a similar situation except indoors where the
previous owner put in travertine and have burgundy colored grout. Good
thing I bought another house (the one I have been working on) and will soon
leave this one. But over the years I have been trying to find ways to
bleach it, to stain it to no avail.

The dremel tool is not very efficient. I have it. On sanded grout (which
is probably what you have) it kicks up so much dust it is unusable. You can
wear head gear and googles and dust mask but being outdoor it will be
suffocating. It is VERY slow. You work an inch at a time at a snail pace.
I tried and after two hours I declared that in order to do all 1800 SF of my
living/dinning room, I would spent another month doing it and I would have
developed a back problem and a respiratory illness if I had proceeded. I
would rather replace all my tiles and do it all over.

Lately I have seen an infommercial on QVC or somewhere where they showed
this grout "paint", It is a bottle with a foamy roller applicator and it
literally paints your grout. I have no idea if it works but reviews seem to
be good. If I were to struggle with this problem again this will be
something I try, a long shot though.

Good luck and if you find a solution, do tell!

MC

Kris Krieger

2006-09-10, 1:25 pm

Bob Morrison <SpamFighter@junk.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1f69fe2444b4392a989c17@news.west.earthlink.net:

> In a previous post Kris Krieger wrote...
>
> Kris:
>
> My understanding is that concrete stain is pretty permanent. I would
> think that red would be a difficult color to stain over unless you
> pick some color like dark brown or black.
>
> One option I can think of is try a bleach on the red grout and then
> try concrete stain. However, since this is for an pool application
> I'm betting the grout is resistant to bleach, so your only other
> option is to chip out the grout and replace it with one of the desired
> color.
>

Thanks for the info, Bob - I had used some acrylic art paint as a glaze
to simulate a stain; using the complimentary color, I was able to
neutralize the red but yup, it was very dark, like a dark burnt umber.
I thought it looked decent. but the household consensus was "Blyecch!"

So it looks like we'll have to have as much a spossible chipped out (I'm
going to try a wire brush on a chip of the stone to be sure it doesn't
get scratched). Then the stuff will be skimmed-over with a nice neutral
color, sort-of a "warm taupe".

Heh, I'd brought some "grout patties" (dried blobs) and samles of the
coping ands tile, and the consensus at the pool place was that it was
awful; nobody at all can figure out how or why that red junk was shipped
with the coping, given the neutral coloring of the stone. What a crime,
doing that to travertine...

It'll get fixed, it's just a matter of finding the best method. ANyway,
thanks again for your input

- Kris

Kris Krieger

2006-09-10, 1:25 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:edq6fg09ft@news4.newsguy.com:

> "Bob Morrison"> wrote
>
> I'm thinking the grout color is integral, all the way through, thats
> the way mine was.
> Regardless, the topmost surface of the grout would have to be removed
> and new grout applied over the old.
> Dremel makes a bit for removing grout but I have never used it.

*Brilliant*! You know, I have a Dremel tool but never thought of your
idea! It'd be time-consuming but I could do some of it myself - maybe
get the tiny pores (the stone has a lot of "dimples" and "small
craters" that also got polluted by this red junk). And let the
coping'n'tile guys do the large areas.

Thanks for the idea =:-D !

> I imagine this would be an arduous task.
> Bleach might leach into the adjacent tiles and cause discoloration.
>
>
>

Kris Krieger

2006-09-10, 1:25 pm

"miamicuse" <nmbexcuse@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:f8OdnYLomoKlLJ3YnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@dsli.com:

>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:edq6fg09ft@news4.newsguy.com...
> to
> way
>
> This will be tough. I have a similar situation except indoors where
> the previous owner put in travertine and have burgundy colored grout.
> Good thing I bought another house (the one I have been working on) and
> will soon leave this one. But over the years I have been trying to
> find ways to bleach it, to stain it to no avail.
>
> The dremel tool is not very efficient. I have it. On sanded grout
> (which is probably what you have) it kicks up so much dust it is
> unusable.

This is outdoors, so not a problem.

> You can wear head gear and googles and dust mask but being
> outdoor it will be suffocating.

I have somethings that are OK. Plus I figure I can set up a large fan next
to me to blow away the dust. It'd be *much* better than having to look at
how this red crap ruined my beautiful stone...

> It is VERY slow. You work an inch at
> a time at a snail pace. I tried and after two hours I declared that in
> order to do all 1800 SF of my living/dinning room, I would spent
> another month doing it and I would have developed a back problem and a
> respiratory illness if I had proceeded. I would rather replace all my
> tiles and do it all over.

It's not just tile. This coping is something like 10"L 8" W and X2" deep.
*Then* there is also large tile, I'm guessing at least 18" square, on the
sides and across the entire back of a 17' widw, 1+ foot deep, 2' high waal
with 12' of water-curtain fixture, and all of that also topped by coping.
IOW, replacing all of that stuff is simply *not* an option.

It was their error, because nobody called me about the grout color plus
nobody had told my customer rep that this coping has very recently started
including upgraded grout (i.e., with color in it, as opposed to gray). So,
they do have to fix it.

Personally, I don't at all mind going out and picking out the stuff from
the smaller dimples, and leaving the easier/larger areas to the
coping'n'tile people. Anything to get rid of the crap that got put in...

> Lately I have seen an infommercial on QVC or somewhere where they
> showed this grout "paint", It is a bottle with a foamy roller
> applicator and it literally paints your grout. I have no idea if it
> works but reviews seem to be good. If I were to struggle with this
> problem again this will be something I try, a long shot though.

THey do sell concrete paint, and when I called the Quickrete Pruduct INfo
line, they said that, yes, grout is a concrete product and that the paint
and stain can therefore also be used successfully on grout.

But my pool customer rep will talk to his managers and to the coping'n'tile
people and so on, and arrive at a good method. I'm assuming it will be
routing out the original grout. So I think I'll just go ahead and look at
the Dremel attachment, esp. since I've been considering getting it (and a
coule other attachments) anyway ;)

I'll post re: what they end up doing, and what the result is.

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