Architecture - OK folks, about well water...

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OK folks, about well water...

Pierre Levesque

2007-01-22, 3:25 am

Just closed on a small cottage adjacent to our property up in the
Mountains...

First weekend there and everything is dandy. Turn on the hot water heater,
the pump, raise the thermostats and light a fire in fireplace... Damn. The
hot water is basically murky and smells of sulfur, the cold water doesn't
smell as much and is less murky but still not anything one would drink.
Maybe it's just inactivity so lets run it and let it drain the system and
the hot water tank. Maybe fill up the tub, drain and start again. So I
fill the tub and by the time the water gets to the midway point I can't see
the bottom anymore. Oh boy, we've got a real problem.

Anyhow, after doing that a couple times, the sulfur smell is basically gone
and the color is better. The cold water is much much better but still a
little bit murky.

End of the weekend and things have improved but still not drinkable, barely
usable to wash with.

QUESTION: What experience do/have some of you had with this situation and
what did you do about it?

Flush the well? Install special filters? Kill the whole system and dig a
new well somewhere else (not really an option)?

Ken S. Tucker

2007-01-22, 3:25 am

Don

2007-01-22, 9:25 am

"Pierre Levesque"> wrote
> Just closed on a small cottage adjacent to our property up in the
> Mountains...
>
> First weekend there and everything is dandy. Turn on the hot water
> heater, the pump, raise the thermostats and light a fire in fireplace...
> Damn. The hot water is basically murky and smells of sulfur, the cold
> water doesn't smell as much and is less murky but still not anything one
> would drink. Maybe it's just inactivity so lets run it and let it drain
> the system and the hot water tank. Maybe fill up the tub, drain and start
> again. So I fill the tub and by the time the water gets to the midway
> point I can't see the bottom anymore. Oh boy, we've got a real problem.
>
> Anyhow, after doing that a couple times, the sulfur smell is basically
> gone and the color is better. The cold water is much much better but
> still a little bit murky.
>
> End of the weekend and things have improved but still not drinkable,
> barely usable to wash with.
>
> QUESTION: What experience do/have some of you had with this situation and
> what did you do about it?
>
> Flush the well? Install special filters? Kill the whole system and dig a
> new well somewhere else (not really an option)?

Get the water tested, to see what you're working with.
Have it tested by someone that is familiar with the water in that specific
area.
I'd avoid messing with the well directly if at all possible cause that
sounds expensive.
Here, wells cost $100 a foot, thats why nobody has one, everybody is on
muninciple.
(I'd prefer a well myself, I like to control my own destiny and thats what
I've had exclusively since 1988)
Next, consider getting a softener and a whole house filter.
(they cost $500 and up depending)
I'm also wondering if the interior of the water heater has been permanently
stained/contaminated, if such a thing is possible.
Its hard to tell whats going on if the water has not been tested.
Sulpher can be disipated with a standard aerator system, which may be what
you have right now.
Anyway, get the test and post the results here.

Pierre Levesque

2007-01-22, 9:25 am

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1169444460.476309.163390@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Pierre Levesque wrote:
>
> Wow ! nice, congrads, hope that property will be
> a place to make many fond memories! Post pix.
>
> About water, search this group "misc.rural"
> using "sulfur" there's a lot. I lurk that group,
> there's a few good guys.
> Good Luck
> Ken
>

Thx. never even heard of misc.rural... almost sounds like an oxymoron...

Michael Bulatovich

2007-01-22, 9:25 am

"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1169444460.476309.163390@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> About water, search this group "misc.rural"
> using "sulfur" there's a lot. I lurk that group,
> there's a few good guys.
> Good Luck
> Ken

LOL What a group. The first thread I read was on single tyned manure
forks....LOL

Thanks for that Ken.

TheRebarGuy

2007-01-22, 9:25 am

"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:ep2ggf0l0k@news4.newsguy.com...
>
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1169444460.476309.163390@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> LOL What a group. The first thread I read was on single tyned manure
> forks....LOL
>
> Thanks for that Ken.
>

After reading your post I just had to make the trip over to that newsgroup.
I couldn't imagine anyone actually discussing manure forks.

The things you can learn on the internet...

Pierre Levesque

2007-01-22, 9:25 am

OK folks, here's the ultimate site on the subject. From
http://www.inspect-ny.com/ The Home Inspection & Construction Information
Website

We're talking about TONS of information found there...

But on the specific subject of Wells and Water Quality;
www.connarch.com/catskills/Rustic_h...d_water_supply/ (copied over
from that website)

It sounds like I first need to test the well, then "Shock" my well with a
chlorine treatment, then re-test. If it still fails, I'll need to install
one of several choices of water treatment systems...

Ken S. Tucker

2007-01-22, 1:25 pm

TheRebarGuy wrote:
> "Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
> news:ep2ggf0l0k@news4.newsguy.com...

Welcome, thanks back, that's a hilarious thread,
I would have missed it.
[color=darkred]
> After reading your post I just had to make the trip over to that newsgroup.
> I couldn't imagine anyone actually discussing manure forks.
> The things you can learn on the internet...

It's a fair good group, but it's slowly being degraded
by spammers and flammers, so it's more irritating to
lurk, you know sifting through yukky stuff.
Another one I used to enjoy lurking was rec.ponds,
but it's really degraded to the extent they want to
moderate it. There's another moderated group that
approves new groups in the BIG8, called
"news.groups.proposals" (n.g.p) where that's being
discussed. Incidentally, I'm also supporting a new
group called "sci.physics.foundations", that will be
moderated. If any of you fella's have a leaning toward
basics of science you may want to register support
for that group with a quick post to n.g.p. I know the
proponents/moderators fairly personally, and they're
really good fella's.

Fortunately, our little alt.arky has been largely ignored
by flammers and spammers (except me ;-).
Ken

Ken S. Tucker

2007-01-22, 1:25 pm

Pierre Levesque wrote:
> OK folks, here's the ultimate site on the subject. From
> http://www.inspect-ny.com/ The Home Inspection & Construction Information
> Website
>
> We're talking about TONS of information found there...
>
> But on the specific subject of Wells and Water Quality;
> www.connarch.com/catskills/Rustic_h...d_water_supply/ (copied over
> from that website)
>
> It sounds like I first need to test the well, then "Shock" my well with a
> chlorine treatment, then re-test. If it still fails, I'll need to install
> one of several choices of water treatment systems...

About 20 years back I was in the water treatment
business as a sales rep for AquaFine, and I'd give
lot's of free superficial analyses. The problem I
encountered was the cost of a really good analysis,
that lab time is expensive. But a Culligan or some
such fella might give you some good advice.

One good little *trick* is to examine the toilet tank,
it's a depository with a memory. It could be orange,
black etc. anyway ask yourself if you would drink or
bathe in water from there.
Black can indicate Manganese (Mn) or Lead (Pb),
orange (Fe2O3 is very unhealthy), scaling gives
an idea of hardness, but hardness is just unpleasant.
If you can describe what's in the tank I might give an
opinion, but like Don says, a local honest pro likely
knows.
Ken

Pat

2007-01-23, 9:25 am

Filters work well, but sometimes you need to put in two -- a paper
filter in line in front of a treatment filter so that the paper takes
out the big stuff. The treatment filters don't have as much surface
areas and don't treat as much water, so it's better to take out what
you can before the "good" filters.

You can get basic systems at almost any home depot or other lumber
yard. I've used this brand.
http://www.omnifilters.com/whole-house-filters.htm

Don't use carbon filter if you have sulfer -- it creates a worse
problem.

Sometimes you need to chlorinate the water before treatment to react
the sulfer and stuff so you can take it out easier -- usually with a
softener.

Be careful using filters on well water. It isn't recommended. You
might want to take them out when you leave so that you don't set up a
little breeding ground while you're back home during the week.

The company, above has various filter inserts. Something will work for
you.

In my mother's house, we had unfiltered (but chlorinated) water from
the Hudson River (way up north where it is safe). I needed the paper
to take out the sticks and leaves then a carbon filter so the water
didn't taste like trout. With just the carbon, it would plug quickly
(in a matter of days sometimes) but the two-filter system kept it going
a reasonable amount of time between changes.

Good luck.

Pat.

Pierre Levesque wrote:
> Just closed on a small cottage adjacent to our property up in the
> Mountains...
>
> First weekend there and everything is dandy. Turn on the hot water heater,
> the pump, raise the thermostats and light a fire in fireplace... Damn. The
> hot water is basically murky and smells of sulfur, the cold water doesn't
> smell as much and is less murky but still not anything one would drink.
> Maybe it's just inactivity so lets run it and let it drain the system and
> the hot water tank. Maybe fill up the tub, drain and start again. So I
> fill the tub and by the time the water gets to the midway point I can't see
> the bottom anymore. Oh boy, we've got a real problem.
>
> Anyhow, after doing that a couple times, the sulfur smell is basically gone
> and the color is better. The cold water is much much better but still a
> little bit murky.
>
> End of the weekend and things have improved but still not drinkable, barely
> usable to wash with.
>
> QUESTION: What experience do/have some of you had with this situation and
> what did you do about it?
>
> Flush the well? Install special filters? Kill the whole system and dig a
> new well somewhere else (not really an option)?

Michael Bulatovich

2007-01-23, 1:27 pm

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:1169565874.329388.287960@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> In my mother's house, we had unfiltered (but chlorinated) water from
> the Hudson River (way up north where it is safe). I needed the paper
> to take out the sticks and leaves then a carbon filter so the water
> didn't taste like trout. With just the carbon, it would plug quickly
> (in a matter of days sometimes) but the two-filter system kept it going
> a reasonable amount of time between changes.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Pat.

Straight from the river???

Pat

2007-01-23, 1:27 pm

Michael Bulatovich wrote:
> "Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
> news:1169565874.329388.287960@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Straight from the river???

Ah huh! They just splashed in a little chlorine and let it go. I
always jokes that the reason they had two faucets was so that you could
get your water plain or chunky. It tasted like trout and you didn't
have to worry about the food in your freezer making your ice cubes
smell bad -- the ice cubes made the food smell bad. Most of the year
it was okay, but in the summer it was unbearable (to me). I installed
just a carbon filter at first. It plugged in about a month. At one
point, it plugged in 3 days. Once I put in the paper filter to take
out the big stuff, it all lasted longer. They still use the river, but
not they filter it. The water is okay now, but for a full year you
could taste it. I think they started filtering it about 2 years ago.
We still keep the charcoal filter in place but I don't put in a paper
one any more. The city has about 15,000 people. It is about 3 or 4
hours straight south of Montreal.

Michael Bulatovich

2007-01-23, 1:27 pm

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:1169576673.456177.229300@d71g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Michael Bulatovich wrote:
>
> Ah huh!

Year-round???

Pat

2007-01-23, 1:27 pm

Yup.

It was great. If you wanted a piece of fish, you just had to go get a
drink of water. If you wanted a cake that tasted like trout, just use
the water when you baked it. Poached eggs with fish flavor, no
problem. My kids drank a lot of soda when they were there. But it
mostly tasted of fish in the summer. I don't know, bacteria levels
must have been high. And the white paper water filter came out as sort
of a really dark, slimy green. But hey, it was city water and
clorinated so it shouldn't hurt you. You couldn't drink it, but it was
safe. Cold weather was better, but still. Now, with filtration, it is
better. But it is still water from the Hudson River., 24/7. Yum.
Yum.

Michael Bulatovich wrote:
> "Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
> news:1169576673.456177.229300@d71g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Year-round???

Gary Slusser

2007-01-23, 5:31 pm

Pierre Levesque wrote:
> Just closed on a small cottage adjacent to our property up in the
> Mountains...
>
> First weekend there and everything is dandy. Turn on the hot water heater,
> the pump, raise the thermostats and light a fire in fireplace... Damn. The
> hot water is basically murky and smells of sulfur, the cold water doesn't
> smell as much and is less murky but still not anything one would drink.
> Maybe it's just inactivity so lets run it and let it drain the system and
> the hot water tank. Maybe fill up the tub, drain and start again. So I
> fill the tub and by the time the water gets to the midway point I can't see
> the bottom anymore. Oh boy, we've got a real problem.
>
> Anyhow, after doing that a couple times, the sulfur smell is basically gone
> and the color is better. The cold water is much much better but still a
> little bit murky.
>
> End of the weekend and things have improved but still not drinkable, barely
> usable to wash with.
>
> QUESTION: What experience do/have some of you had with this situation and
> what did you do about it?
>
> Flush the well? Install special filters? Kill the whole system and dig a
> new well somewhere else (not really an option)?

When returning, stagnant water should be flushed from the pressure tank
and the pump until it runs as clear as possible and then flush all the
cold water fixtures. Then run hot water until it is as clear as
possible; draining and flushing the tank will help and speed the
process.

If the odor is not caused by naturally occurring H2S gas it will be
caused by bacteria. If the cold water does not have the odor and hot
does, bacteria are responsible. Raising the water heater temp to 140f
will kill all bacteria including Legionaire.

The dirt can be from iron, manganese and invisible sediment, which all
waters contain. If the water comes out of the well dirty, then before
running water into the building, run water outside as close to the well
as possible until it clears.

You should have a water test done for iron, manganese, Coliform
bacteria, nitrates/nitrites and hardness. If you have Coliform, and
pretreat the water you could use a UV light. Pretreatment would be for
iron, hardness, turbidity and H2S. You may be able to use a softener
for everything (listed) except H2S which goes right through a softener.

Shocking a well can cause problems with the water quality, pump, power
cable if a submersible pump, drop pipe if galvanized and cause more
bacteria related problems in the well which can lead to a reduced
recovery/production rate by causing encrustations that chlorine can not
penetrate. Bacteria will live in/under the encrustations, so the
problem will still exist albeit it may be less of a problem.

Then you'd need well rehabilitation/cleaning. Or a new well, and they
do not come with any guarantee of water quality, so you could end up
with better, the same or worse water quality and have a lot less money
for water treatment equipment. So it's always better to treat than to
drill a new well unless the present well is not producing the volume
needed for the building.

I have 20 years experience in water treatment and I also have done well
pump work for most of that time. I've also answered questions like this
in many newsgroups and on web site forums for the last ten years.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

Pierre Levesque

2007-01-23, 5:31 pm

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:1169576673.456177.229300@d71g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Michael Bulatovich wrote:
>
> Ah huh! They just splashed in a little chlorine and let it go. I
> always jokes that the reason they had two faucets was so that you could
> get your water plain or chunky. It tasted like trout and you didn't
> have to worry about the food in your freezer making your ice cubes
> smell bad -- the ice cubes made the food smell bad. Most of the year
> it was okay, but in the summer it was unbearable (to me). I installed
> just a carbon filter at first. It plugged in about a month. At one
> point, it plugged in 3 days. Once I put in the paper filter to take
> out the big stuff, it all lasted longer. They still use the river, but
> not they filter it. The water is okay now, but for a full year you
> could taste it. I think they started filtering it about 2 years ago.
> We still keep the charcoal filter in place but I don't put in a paper
> one any more. The city has about 15,000 people. It is about 3 or 4
> hours straight south of Montreal.
>
3 or 4 hours straight south of Montreal is basically the Glenn Falls/Albany
corridor... which is it? Colonie? Hudson? Either way, that's not wayyy up
there, the Hudson is still full of power and pleasure boats in that area!

Pat

2007-01-23, 9:26 pm

On Jan 23, 6:01 pm, "Pierre Levesque"
<pierrelevesqueNOS...@connarch.com> wrote:
> "Pat" <gro...@artisticphotography.us> wrote in messagenews:1169576673.456177.229300@d71g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

City of Glens Falls, right on the Hudson River in Warren County. They
also have a public beach on the Hudson. But it's far enough north that
there not much/any pollution. Most of the bad things happen in the
Fort Edward area and south.
[color=darkred]
> corridor... which is it? Colonie? Hudson? Either way, that's not wayyy up
> there, the Hudson is still full of power and pleasure boats in that area!

Pierre Levesque

2007-01-24, 3:30 am

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:1169607368.533319.236850@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 23, 6:01 pm, "Pierre Levesque"
> <pierrelevesqueNOS...@connarch.com> wrote:
>
> City of Glens Falls, right on the Hudson River in Warren County. They
> also have a public beach on the Hudson. But it's far enough north that
> there not much/any pollution. Most of the bad things happen in the
> Fort Edward area and south.
>
>

I know the Northway like the back of my hand. Glenns Falls is the exact
mid-point between E 10th Street in NYC and Beaconsfield in the West-Island
of Montreal. I had an old friend in Glenns Falls named Aldona
Janushkevich... a neighbor of yours?

Ken S. Tucker

2007-01-24, 1:25 pm

On Jan 23, 11:16 am, "Pat" <gro...@artisticphotography.us> wrote:
> Yup.
>
> It was great. If you wanted a piece of fish, you just had to go get a
> drink of water. If you wanted a cake that tasted like trout, just use
> the water when you baked it. Poached eggs with fish flavor, no
> problem. My kids drank a lot of soda when they were there. But it
> mostly tasted of fish in the summer. I don't know, bacteria levels
> must have been high. And the white paper water filter came out as sort
> of a really dark, slimy green. But hey, it was city water and
> clorinated so it shouldn't hurt you. You couldn't drink it, but it was
> safe. Cold weather was better, but still. Now, with filtration, it is
> better. But it is still water from the Hudson River., 24/7. Yum.
> Yum.

Bay Lake ont. has fishy water. (The water was
good until some goobers put in a dam).
Our filter system was Screen + Sendiment +UV
+ Carbon and the fish odor went through it.
In our case it was a result of an "algae bloom",
that looked light green in the lake. The algae
produces a mild neurotoxic chemical most likely
unhealthy, but it's not in the govmints sites so
it doesn't exist.
I think Gary posted an idea on how complicated
water treatment can be.
Ken

Pat

2007-01-25, 1:25 pm

On Jan 24, 1:13 am, "Pierre Levesque"
<pierrelevesqueNOS...@connarch.com> wrote:
> "Pat" <gro...@artisticphotography.us> wrote in messagenews:1169607368.533319.236850@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> mid-point between E 10th Street in NYC and Beaconsfield in the West-Island
> of Montreal. I had an old friend in Glenns Falls named Aldona
> Janushkevich... a neighbor of yours?

Well, then the back of your hand is misspelled <hehe>, it's Glens
Falls. One "n".

My mother and my brother live there and I visit pretty regularly, but I
live outside of Buffalo, which is the exact midpoint between nowhere
and Middle-of-Nowhere. I'm actually closer to Toronto. I think I'm
halfway between Syracuse and Cleveland.

Pierre Levesque

2007-01-25, 1:25 pm

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:1169741981.342529.263410@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> On Jan 24, 1:13 am, "Pierre Levesque"
> <pierrelevesqueNOS...@connarch.com> wrote:
>
> Well, then the back of your hand is misspelled <hehe>, it's Glens
> Falls. One "n".

Yeah I noticed right after I posted... guilty as charged...

>
> My mother and my brother live there and I visit pretty regularly, but I
> live outside of Buffalo, which is the exact midpoint between nowhere
> and Middle-of-Nowhere. I'm actually closer to Toronto. I think I'm
> halfway between Syracuse and Cleveland.

I guess that if you drive to NYC from Buffalo, Glens Falls is just about the
same distance between the two as it is between NYC and Montreal...

NYC/Montreal is approx 330 miles whlie NYC/Buffalo is about only about 20
miles more...

Michael Bulatovich

2007-01-25, 1:25 pm

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:1169741981.342529.263410@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> Well, then the back of your hand is misspelled <hehe>, it's Glens
> Falls. One "n".
>
> My mother and my brother live there and I visit pretty regularly, but I
> live outside of Buffalo, which is the exact midpoint between nowhere
> and Middle-of-Nowhere. I'm actually closer to Toronto. I think I'm
> halfway between Syracuse and Cleveland.

I thought you were halfway between Montreal and 10th Avenue...?

Pierre Levesque

2007-01-25, 1:25 pm

"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:epaoce02mut@news1.newsguy.com...
>
> "Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
> news:1169741981.342529.263410@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> I thought you were halfway between Montreal and 10th Avenue...?
>

???

Michael Bulatovich

2007-01-25, 8:25 pm

"Pierre Levesque" <pierrelevesqueNOSPAM@connarch.com> wrote in message
news:1B5uh.10048$Kf.6433@trndny07...
>
> "Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
> news:epaoce02mut@news1.newsguy.com...
>
> ???

Isn't that what Pat said earlier in the thread?

Pat

2007-01-26, 9:25 am

To clarify: Glens Falls is halfway between Montreal and NYC. Yup.
And that's where the fishy water is. But I don't live there, my mother
does. I live in western NY, south of Buffalo, which is halfway between
nowhere and nothing.

On Jan 25, 9:17 pm, "Michael Bulatovich" <Ple...@dont.try> wrote:[color=darkred]
> "Pierre Levesque" <pierrelevesqueNOS...@connarch.com> wrote in messagenews:1B5uh.10048$Kf.6433@trndny07...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Don

2007-01-26, 9:25 am

"Pat"> wrote
> I live in western NY, south of Buffalo, which is halfway between
> nowhere and nothing.

I spent a week there one night.........

Michael Bulatovich

2007-01-26, 1:25 pm

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:1169824214.903385.67120@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> To clarify: Glens Falls is halfway between Montreal and NYC. Yup.
> And that's where the fishy water is. But I don't live there, my mother
> does. I live in western NY, south of Buffalo, which is halfway between
> nowhere and nothing.

Ah. I thought Glens Falls was on some kind node on the cosmic grid of lay
lines...lol

I was going to propose a pyramid and a motel to the town fathers...

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