Architecture - Inversity

Author

Inversity

Warm Worm

2007-11-18, 5:25 pm

Kris Krieger wrote:
> Warm Worm <user@domain.invalid> wrote in news:fh7s0h$i3q$1@aioe.org:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> I actualy think that is not such a bad idea. Sometimes I think I owuld
> love to teach (I'm sure none of you has ever suspected that I have a bit of
> apedantic nature <LOL!!> ), but the whole "classroom" thing puts me off,
> because what I would like to pass on is my love of, and excitement about,
> the natural world, and how Science helps us uncover and understand it. The
> problem is that this is extremely difficult, excpet for very talented
> "natural-born" teachers, to communicate withing th econfines of a concrete
> room.
>
> The other problem is the strictures - I have a friend who is a teacher, and
> it seems that the *vast* majority of time is wasted upon adhering to this
> or that bureaucrat's pet dumbass "theory of education", and on teaching the
> kids to memorize the andwers of the dumbass "no child left behind" (talk
> about lack of truth in advertising...) Federal money acquisition forms.
>
> IMO, Nature is the best classroom, because it is constantly stimulating,
> and is the wellspring of a child's curiosity - which, in turn, is the
> cornerstone of a continuing desire to learn.

(Qualification: what follows is a hypothesis)

Agreed, but also including government, industry and markets and so
forth-- whatever's part of the world and beyond.

'Open-Door Education'.

Education turned inside-out:

*_INVERSITY_*

If students are brought _way_ more beyond the classroom (and/or
reinventing what a "classroom" and "school" are and can be), then those
areas that they visit, study-- and, yes, even apprentice, co-op and work
in, etc., will also learn and teach-- and have more to answer for.
There will be more transparency by necessity.

Currently, students seem hardly allowed to go anywhere. That's not
community or how close-knit, successful tribes worked, or anything else.
It's built-in ignorance, failures and disasters waiting-to-happen.
More eyes see more, even if they're still learning-- or maybe especially so.

If, as I've read this week here, education is supposed to prepare one
for the real world, then I think we're going about it the wrong way.

I propose that the very act of seeding students throughout (which is
where they should rightfully be) could change our systems/world for the
better-- government, industry, markets, education-- everything.

> Hence, I do not teach, and have never sought to little piece of paper taht
> grants me permission to do so.

I'd be surprised if you needed a paper to teach in many contexts.
It might be just a question of getting it going, a la grass-roots.

For example, rather that just setting up a garage only for himself, Don
could easily create a "one-room schoolhouse" for drafting and building.

Don

2007-11-18, 8:25 pm

"Warm Worm" <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
news:fhq5hl$jaa$1@aioe.org...
> Kris Krieger wrote:
>
> (Qualification: what follows is a hypothesis)
>
> Agreed, but also including government, industry and markets and so forth--
> whatever's part of the world and beyond.
>
> 'Open-Door Education'.
>
> education turned inside-out:
>
> *_INVERSITY_*
>
> If students are brought _way_ more beyond the classroom (and/or
> reinventing what a "classroom" and "school" are and can be), then those
> areas that they visit, study-- and, yes, even apprentice, co-op and work
> in, etc., will also learn and teach-- and have more to answer for.
> There will be more transparency by necessity.
>
> Currently, students seem hardly allowed to go anywhere. That's not
> community or how close-knit, successful tribes worked, or anything else.
> It's built-in ignorance, failures and disasters waiting-to-happen.
> More eyes see more, even if they're still learning-- or maybe especially
> so.
>
> If, as I've read this week here, education is supposed to prepare one for
> the real world, then I think we're going about it the wrong way.
>
> I propose that the very act of seeding students throughout (which is where
> they should rightfully be) could change our systems/world for the better--
> government, industry, markets, education-- everything.
>
>
> I'd be surprised if you needed a paper to teach in many contexts.
> It might be just a question of getting it going, a la grass-roots.
>
> For example, rather that just setting up a garage only for himself, Don
> could easily create a "one-room schoolhouse" for drafting and building.

There are sides to Don that no one knows.
Many sides.
For the past 3 weeks I have been constructing 30 LARGE birdhouses for the
local middle school students.
They are made from mostly scrap lumber from my various construction projects
but I have also expended some coin for materials as well.
Like I said, they are large, about 18" each way and the art class is going
to hold a contest amongst the 8th graders to come up with the most creative
way to decorate them and then they will be auctioned off with the proceeds
going back into that classroom.
Art, and crafts are real big issues around here and long money is expended
to that end and these kids are going to make a killing on this thing.
I was happy to help them out.
No, none of the students came into my workshop, yet, but they are deriving
benefit from it none the less.
The birdhouses wouldn't fit in my truck all in one fell swoop, it took 3
trips to get all of them to the school..
I assembled them and sprayed all of them white to create a unified blank
canvas, if you will.
People are quick to believe that a 1/16" wide facet that is exposed in a
public format comprises an entire picture and if they are so shallow to do
so than so be it, but I have no time for such silliness.
I spent almost 16 hours today *helping* out on a habitat for humanity
project that I have been involved with since august and it seems my small
inventory of tools and expertise is extreme to the locals that have never
even seen a nail gun. Back when I reworked their disfuntional *architect*
designed plan and came up with a more comprehensive and value engineered
plan and a gateway to expedite the materials delivery process to act like a
conveyor between the workers and the application.
You see, an iceburg is 2/3 invisible........
There's plenty of other tricks in my bag and most will never be
known..........and thats the way I prefer it..........
Onward.

Warm Worm

2007-11-19, 8:25 pm

Don wrote:
> "Warm Worm" <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
> news:fhq5hl$jaa$1@aioe.org...
>
> There are sides to Don that no one knows.
> Many sides.

Fair enough, and of course... I've already suggested, perhaps outright,
that I value your "online forum" side(s).
The many things you know that I don't is in part what brings me here--
architecture, building, ACAD, framing with balloons...

(joking with the last bit ;)

I love reading what you guys have to say in that area, even if I don't
always completely understand it.
Hopefully, our public sides, though, or the main sides others see, are
fair to our sides unseen, that what-is and who-is behind the scenes is
not somehow undermined or devalued, if only through the eyes of others.

If you feel you're not being read properly or fairly, perhaps it might
be a good time to consider avoiding some topics that you think might put
you in the mire... Not that that's necessarily a big deal if you can
handle it, or that we'll all invariably end up there from time to time!

> For the past 3 weeks I have been constructing 30 LARGE birdhouses for the
> local middle school students.
> They are made from mostly scrap lumber from my various construction projects
> but I have also expended some coin for materials as well.
> Like I said, they are large, about 18" each way and the art class is going
> to hold a contest amongst the 8th graders to come up with the most creative
> way to decorate them and then they will be auctioned off with the proceeds
> going back into that classroom.
> Art, and crafts are real big issues around here and long money is expended
> to that end and these kids are going to make a killing on this thing.
> I was happy to help them out.
> No, none of the students came into my workshop, yet, but they are deriving
> benefit from it none the less.
> The birdhouses wouldn't fit in my truck all in one fell swoop, it took 3
> trips to get all of them to the school..
> I assembled them and sprayed all of them white to create a unified blank
> canvas, if you will.
> People are quick to believe that a 1/16" wide facet that is exposed in a
> public format comprises an entire picture and if they are so shallow to do
> so than so be it, but I have no time for such silliness.
> I spent almost 16 hours today *helping* out on a habitat for humanity
> project that I have been involved with since august and it seems my small
> inventory of tools and expertise is extreme to the locals that have never
> even seen a nail gun. Back when I reworked their disfuntional *architect*
> designed plan and came up with a more comprehensive and value engineered
> plan and a gateway to expedite the materials delivery process to act like a
> conveyor between the workers and the application.

Very cool and commendable, and glad you shared it-- it's inspirational.

> You see, an iceburg is 2/3 invisible........
> There's plenty of other tricks in my bag and most will never be
> known..........and thats the way I prefer it..........
> Onward.

Hypothetically, an iceberg, brimming with clear pristine fresh ice, can
float by an industrial town and get its above-surface portion coated
with a thin brownish-gray film of industrial pollutants. ;)

Kris Krieger

2007-11-20, 5:25 pm

Warm Worm <user@domain.invalid> wrote in news:fhq5hl$jaa$1@aioe.org:

> Kris Krieger wrote:
>
> (Qualification: what follows is a hypothesis)
>
> Agreed, but also including government, industry and markets and so
> forth-- whatever's part of the world and beyond.
>
> 'Open-Door Education'.

I think of going outside, because that is the very first thing you can do
with children. Everything else comes later ;)

>
> education turned inside-out:
>
> *_INVERSITY_*
>
> If students are brought _way_ more beyond the classroom (and/or
> reinventing what a "classroom" and "school" are and can be), then
> those areas that they visit, study-- and, yes, even apprentice, co-op
> and work in, etc., will also learn and teach-- and have more to answer
> for. There will be more transparency by necessity.

Anyplace can be a classroom. That's the point that IMO too many poeple
miss. THe best IMO is to go out, observe, collect data, and so on, and
then come back (to someplace) to discuss it, digest it.

I could never do math because it was never tied to anything - it was just
a matter of "shut up and learn it, and if you can't learn it, shut up
anyway". Once i got out of school, I did more math than I ever did in
school, because it bacemae a tool rather than just some abstract bit of
pedagoguery.

>
> Currently, students seem hardly allowed to go anywhere. That's not
> community or how close-knit, successful tribes worked, or anything
> else. It's built-in ignorance, failures and disasters
> waiting-to-happen. More eyes see more, even if they're still
> learning-- or maybe especially so.

True.

>
> If, as I've read this week here, education is supposed to prepare one
> for the real world, then I think we're going about it the wrong way.
>
> I propose that the very act of seeding students throughout (which is
> where they should rightfully be) could change our systems/world for
> the better-- government, industry, markets, education-- everything.
>
>
> I'd be surprised if you needed a paper to teach in many contexts.
> It might be just a question of getting it going, a la grass-roots.
>
> For example, rather that just setting up a garage only for himself,
> Don could easily create a "one-room schoolhouse" for drafting and
> building.
>

Heh ;)

2007-11-21, 1:25 pm

Kris Krieger wrote:

>I think of going outside, because that is the very first thing you can do
>with children. Everything else comes later ;)
>
>

I think you are absolutely correct. http://www.outdoorlab.org/Home2.asp
Curricula: http://www.outdoorlab.org/learning2.asp This is one
example. There are many others. And there are guides online for how to
design and plan your own . Here are a few links:
http://jeffcoweb.jeffco.k12.co.us/e...k/proginfo.html
http://www.clemson.edu/outdoorlab/ and
http://www.westminster.edu/common/coding/404.cfm show difference in
approaches.

>Anyplace can be a classroom. That's the point that IMO too many poeple
>miss. THe best IMO is to go out, observe, collect data, and so on, and
>then come back (to someplace) to discuss it, digest it.
>
>
I home schooled for many years so I'm with you on this one.

>I could never do math because it was never tied to anything - it was just
>a matter of "shut up and learn it, and if you can't learn it, shut up
>anyway".
>
Nothing like learning multiplication with half cartons of eggs and then
using those eggs to make omelettes, angel food cakes and etc. Can do
division with piles of nails...

> Once i got out of school, I did more math than I ever did in
>school, because it bacemae a tool rather than just some abstract bit of
>pedagoguery.
>
>
Carpentry projects are great for kids to learn a little solid geometry.

>
>
>
>
>True.
>
>
>
>
>Heh ;)
>
>
>
>

Kris Krieger

2007-11-21, 5:25 pm

Don

2007-11-22, 9:25 am

"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:13k9elsdp4git2f@corp.supernews.com...
> ++ <spasi@erols.com> wrote in
> news:c9mdnZNj-ogJ89nanZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@rcn.net:
>
>
> THe other thing is, WHy bother kids if you aren't going to enjoy them? I
> couldn't have any, but if I did, esp. when older, the greatest thing
> would be going out and watching them explore teh world. One of the best
> things about raising birds was seing them do that, explore their world
> (huge cage but often, the whole apartment <g!> ) and grow and develop. I
> just don't see why a lot of people have kids at all, given that many just
> ignore tham and XXXXX about them.
>
>
> My Dad taught me fractions like that. Fodd is always a good stimulant
> for learnign <LOL!>
>
>
>
> Or even things like Origami, or making models (plastic, paper, wood,
> clay, whatever).
>
> The worst way, IMO, is to take active, squirmy kids, slam their butts
> down into a chair, and expect them to learn a bunch of rote stuff that
> isn't related (byt the instructor) to anything useful or practical or
> real.

Thats exactly what you get in the public schools.
A regimented 'one way for everyone' process that loses more than it gains.
Remember that old saying, 'You can lead a horse to water...'?
Same with learning, and all of us know this.
I failed algebra 2 years in a row cause I just didn't wanna deal with it.
Later in tech school, I was older and had a better instructor, I learned the
basics.
Learning, a lifelong process, should be fun.
If its fun people will want to do it.
If its not fun people will try to get away from it.
Learning is not a 9-5 period at a specific place.
It happens everhwre and all the time.
The failings of the public schools are rooted in these basic facts, combined
with lack of vested interest.

Pat

2007-11-22, 1:25 pm

On Nov 22, 9:58 am, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
> "Kris Krieger" <m...@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
>
> news:13k9elsdp4git2f@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thats exactly what you get in the public schools.
> A regimented 'one way for everyone' process that loses more than it gains.
> Remember that old saying, 'You can lead a horse to water...'?
> Same with learning, and all of us know this.
> I failed algebra 2 years in a row cause I just didn't wanna deal with it.
> Later in tech school, I was older and had a better instructor, I learned the
> basics.
> Learning, a lifelong process, should be fun.
> If its fun people will want to do it.
> If its not fun people will try to get away from it.
> Learning is not a 9-5 period at a specific place.
> It happens everhwre and all the time.
> The failings of the public schools are rooted in these basic facts, combined
> with lack of vested interest.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm thinking of running for the school board. Everyone runs on the
same platform: I'm all of the kids, I've coached, etc. etc.

I keep telling everyone that I'm running on the "let's educate our
kids" platform and found a HUGE groundswell of people who are
dissatisfied with our school. It's a dirty little secret that people
don't talk about in gentle society.

Don

2007-11-22, 5:25 pm

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:48ea34d7-5a8f-4dd8-9efc-2ba19c12c41f@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 22, 9:58 am, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
>
> I'm thinking of running for the school board. Everyone runs on the
> same platform: I'm all of the kids, I've coached, etc. etc.
>
> I keep telling everyone that I'm running on the "let's educate our
> kids" platform and found a HUGE groundswell of people who are
> dissatisfied with our school. It's a dirty little secret that people
> don't talk about in gentle society.

Another thing they know and don't talk about it that the schools cannot be
fixed, by anyone.

Kris Krieger

2007-11-28, 5:25 pm

++ <spasi@erols.com> wrote in
news:c9mdnZNj-ogJ89nanZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@rcn.net:

>
>
> Kris Krieger wrote:
>
>
> I think you are absolutely correct.
> http://www.outdoorlab.org/Home2.asp Curricula:
> http://www.outdoorlab.org/learning2.asp This is one example. There
> are many others. And there are guides online for how to design and
> plan your own . Here are a few links:
> http://jeffcoweb.jeffco.k12.co.us/e...k/proginfo.html
> http://www.clemson.edu/outdoorlab/ and
> http://www.westminster.edu/common/coding/404.cfm show difference in
> approaches.

I've saved the post so I can look those up later (my system is getting
wonky again, IE is really *slow* - must be time to re-re-re-re-re-install
Windows XP =:-p ).

>
> I home schooled for many years so I'm with you on this one.

My schooling was kind of pathetic, so I srt-of "self-schooled", whihc is
the root of my views on this. ALso, given that my brain doesn't function
"normally/inan average manner", I don't learn well in a classroom
situation, and can't follow long lists of instructions when there is no
overarching principle offered. I learn better from being able to figure
out the principle, and then extrapolate the details/instructions. Which
is great with computer software - people do tend to use similar
principle,s so, once you figure out how one program saves files
(directory structure and all of that), you can pretty easily know how
*any* prog will save files. And so on. IOW, I sort-of have to work
inversely to how most things are taught in a classroom. I learned
Russian from tutors, for example, through speaking, and got good whough
to work with the language after a rather brief time. OTOH, learning
language (German) in a classroom took me at least three times as long,
and that was without having to learn a new alphabet.

OTOH, it seems to me that a lot fo people learn better tha same way. I
don't know about most, but I think that kids who are having "trouble"
with learning are merely having trouble with the teaching methods ;)

>
> Nothing like learning multiplication with half cartons of eggs and
> then using those eggs to make omelettes, angel food cakes and etc.
> Can do division with piles of nails...

ANything practical works! Although food is always a good incentive <G!>

>
> Carpentry projects are great for kids to learn a little solid
> geometry.

Building anything - kites, scale models, Orogami, paper models - it all
is good, and all you have to do is find out what the child enjoys. IMO,
the buiggest problem with classroom learning is the whole "siddown and
shaddup" thing that so often happens. SOme kids do learn best in a
classroom situation, but certainly not all, and esp. not those who are
more rambunctious or have any sort of quirks (I dislike the term
"disability", because IMO, it is too often considered to be a sort of
absolute thing - rather than a wall, tho', it's more like a bumpy part of
a road that one has to negotiate differently than one negotiates the
smooth part of the road).

[ ... ]

Don

2007-11-28, 8:25 pm

"Kris Krieger"> wrote
> My schooling was kind of pathetic, so I srt-of "self-schooled", whihc is
> the root of my views on this.

My ol' gray haired uncle used to say,
'Teach a kid to read then get out of his way. Everything he needs to learn
is in a book'.
I agree with the sentiment.

William

2007-11-29, 3:25 am

On Nov 28, 8:07 pm, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
> "Kris Krieger"> wrote
>
>
> My ol' gray haired uncle used to say,
> 'Teach a kid to read then get out of his way. Everything he needs to learn
> is in a book'.
> I agree with the sentiment.

No, sometimes in life you just gotta wing it. Only experience can
teach you how....
Also doing or being the victem of crime can not be learned in a book.
Not saying that books arn't great or anything.

Kris Krieger

2007-11-29, 3:25 am

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:fil71102el4@news1.newsguy.com:

> "Kris Krieger"> wrote
>
> My ol' gray haired uncle used to say,
> 'Teach a kid to read then get out of his way. Everything he needs to
> learn is in a book'.
> I agree with the sentiment.

Reading is the foundation for pretty much everything else, becuase one
*can* learn so much from books. When a kid in school, I wondered why we
couldn't just read books an dexplanatory texts, and get tested on that,
because most of the teachers I had pretty much just had us read textbooks,
and thmselves just read their teacher's handbooks - when I asked "odball"
questions (i.e., stuff "normal" kids didn't think to ask, and which had n
oanswers in the teacher's handbooks), it caused problems. So, for me,
books were the best things. Of course, I also didn't learn to read in
school, but at home, so there ya go...

Amy Blankenship

2007-11-29, 9:25 am

"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:13kskhq1r08b8b5@corp.supernews.com...
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
> news:fil71102el4@news1.newsguy.com:
>
>
> Reading is the foundation for pretty much everything else, becuase one
> *can* learn so much from books. When a kid in school, I wondered why we
> couldn't just read books an dexplanatory texts, and get tested on that,
> because most of the teachers I had pretty much just had us read textbooks,
> and thmselves just read their teacher's handbooks - when I asked "odball"
> questions (i.e., stuff "normal" kids didn't think to ask, and which had n
> oanswers in the teacher's handbooks), it caused problems. So, for me,
> books were the best things. Of course, I also didn't learn to read in
> school, but at home, so there ya go...

I always used to get "I never thought of it that way" and "I'll have to go
look that up" :-)

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