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Home > Archive > Architecture > May 2007 > Concrete Deck Overhang depth
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Concrete Deck Overhang depth
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| chukwuNomso@hotmail.com 2007-05-17, 9:25 am |
| I wish to build a one storey house
I wish to have a section of the upper floor concrete decking overhang
(i.e. to protrude out) by about 1.5m or more.
(And for space considerations: without using any pillars directly
below the overhang)
Is this possible?
If not what is the maximum depth concrete can achieve?
What factors should make it so?
chukwuNomso@hotmail.com
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<chukwuNomso@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179395397.638569.93190@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>I wish to build a one storey house
>
> I wish to have a section of the upper floor concrete decking overhang
> (i.e. to protrude out) by about 1.5m or more.
> (And for space considerations: without using any pillars directly
> below the overhang)
>
> Is this possible?
> If not what is the maximum depth concrete can achieve?
> What factors should make it so?
> chukwuNomso@hotmail.com
Yes, its possible.
In construction there is a rule, 'Money makes all things possible'.
Whats not possible is to explain what it takes to make your request
possible.
Suffice to say that the easiest and probably least expensive way would be to
use precast concrete panels.
Keep in mind that it requires concrete and steel to support concrete and
steel, you can't use wood, unless you use LOTS of wood.
Consult your experienced design professional.
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| Bob Morrison 2007-05-17, 1:25 pm |
| In a previous post Don wrote...
> Yes, its possible.
> In construction there is a rule, 'Money makes all things possible'.
> Whats not possible is to explain what it takes to make your request
> possible.
> Suffice to say that the easiest and probably least expensive way would be to
> use precast concrete panels.
> Keep in mind that it requires concrete and steel to support concrete and
> steel, you can't use wood, unless you use LOTS of wood.
> Consult your experienced design professional.
>
I second what Don said. Give me enough money and I can design you almost
anything! Then you will have find the money to build it.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
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| chukwuNomso@hotmail.com 2007-05-17, 1:25 pm |
| On 17 May, 12:10, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
> <chukwuNo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1179395397.638569.93190@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
> Yes, its possible.
> In construction there is a rule, 'Money makes all things possible'.
> Whats not possible is to explain what it takes to make your request
> possible.
> Suffice to say that the easiest and probably least expensive way would be to
> use precast concrete panels.
> Keep in mind that it requires concrete and steel to support concrete and
> steel, you can't use wood, unless you use LOTS of wood.
> Consult your experienced design professional.
In the part of the world I intend to build, pre-cast concrete panels
are not very fashionable.
Reason being that there are somewhat expensive.
The approach favoured there for decking is to pour mixed concrete onto
a 'cast' containing intertwined steel rods
(The cast is made with plywood; I am not sure what the exact technical
term for this is')
I was assuming that this plywood cast can be extended out by about
1.5m outwards)
The reason I need to know before I make the journey than there is that
I need to buy some made-to-order windows which can only be useful if
this is possible.
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| chukwuNomso@hotmail.com 2007-05-17, 1:25 pm |
| On 17 May, 12:10, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
> <chukwuNo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1179395397.638569.93190@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
> Yes, its possible.
> In construction there is a rule, 'Money makes all things possible'.
> Whats not possible is to explain what it takes to make your request
> possible.
> Suffice to say that the easiest and probably least expensive way would be to
> use precast concrete panels.
> Keep in mind that it requires concrete and steel to support concrete and
> steel, you can't use wood, unless you use LOTS of wood.
> Consult your experienced design professional.
see http://www.mwnews.net/assets/images...ang-end-015.jpg
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| Bob Morrison 2007-05-17, 1:25 pm |
| In a previous post chukwuNomso@hotmail.com wrote...
> I was assuming that this plywood cast can be extended out by about
> 1.5m outwards)
> The reason I need to know before I make the journey than there is that
> I need to buy some made-to-order windows which can only be useful if
> this is possible
The short answer is yes it is possible to cantilever a concrete slab 1.5
meters (about 5 feet), provided it is properly designed and constructed.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
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| Ken S. Tucker 2007-05-17, 1:25 pm |
| On May 17, 8:12 am, Bob Morrison <SpamFigh...@junk.com> wrote:
> In a previous post Don wrote...
>
>
> I second what Don said. Give me enough money and I can design you almost
> anything! Then you will have find the money to build it.
What the OP asks for often sticks out of the side of
apartment buildings, aka balconeys that seem to be
just a slab of concrete. And those are stuck on with
crazy glue :-).
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
> bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
Ken
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| On May 17, 1:00 pm, chukwuNo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On 17 May, 12:10, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In the part of the world I intend to build, pre-cast concrete panels
> are not very fashionable.
> Reason being that there are somewhat expensive.
> The approach favoured there for decking is to pour mixed concrete onto
> a 'cast' containing intertwined steel rods
> (The cast is made with plywood; I am not sure what the exact technical
> term for this is')
> I was assuming that this plywood cast can be extended out by about
> 1.5m outwards)
> The reason I need to know before I make the journey than there is that
> I need to buy some made-to-order windows which can only be useful if
> this is possible.
Yes, it is possible. You need to consult a local engineer because you
have seismic, wind, loading, etc. issues to deal with and they are
somewhat area-specific. Then there is the weight. I am not an
engineer, so don't rely on this or assume it's right, but anyway say
concrete weighs 150 per cubit foot. Say you cantilever out 4.5 feet
and it is 12 feet long (roughly 1.5x4meters) Say it is 2 feet thick.
That is 18.5 cubic feet or 2,775 lbs. (1,258 kilos). So basically you
need enough structure and support to hold up a small car.
Concrete has interesting characteristics. It is really great for
compression strength but really lousy for most other forces. So
without a pretty fair amount of steel inside of it, it will snap off
with what you want to do.
If you know who did the thing that you showed a picture of, use that
person for what you want to do. You'll need design help or you'll get
into trouble really fast.
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<chukwuNomso@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179421259.339810.200950@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On 17 May, 12:10, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
>
> In the part of the world I intend to build, pre-cast concrete panels
> are not very fashionable.
> Reason being that there are somewhat expensive.
> The approach favoured there for decking is to pour mixed concrete onto
> a 'cast' containing intertwined steel rods
> (The cast is made with plywood; I am not sure what the exact technical
> term for this is')
> I was assuming that this plywood cast can be extended out by about
> 1.5m outwards)
> The reason I need to know before I make the journey than there is that
> I need to buy some made-to-order windows which can only be useful if
> this is possible.
The term you're looking for is *forms, or formed*.
Poured in place concrete, which is prohibitively expensive, in more ways
than one.
(the forms have to stay in place for a long time, weeks or more)
Thats why I suggested precast.
The vertical load would have to be accounted for and the reinforcing bosted
to compensate.
Your design professional can answer these questions better than anyone in
this group.
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"Bob Morrison" <SpamFighter@junk.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.20b62fb123e877e9989dee@news.west.earthlink.net...
> In a previous post chukwuNomso@hotmail.com wrote...
>
> The short answer is yes it is possible to cantilever a concrete slab 1.5
> meters (about 5 feet), provided it is properly designed and constructed.
Hell, FLW can run that thing on out there 30'-40' or more with no problem!
(until 50 years later, heh)
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"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1179423825.889649.164880@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 17, 8:12 am, Bob Morrison <SpamFigh...@junk.com> wrote:
>
> What the OP asks for often sticks out of the side of
> apartment buildings, aka balconeys that seem to be
> just a slab of concrete. And those are stuck on with
> crazy glue :-).
If its gonna carry a floor load it is probably en extension of the existing
floor, resulting in a cantilever.
Otherwise it would require brackets.
I likez me sum brackets.
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| Bob Morrison 2007-05-17, 5:25 pm |
| In a previous post Don wrote...
> Hell, FLW can run that thing on out there 30'-40' or more with no problem!
> (until 50 years later, heh)
>
Yeah, then the fix gets really expensive!
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
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| chukwuNomso@hotmail.com 2007-05-18, 3:25 am |
| Thanks a lot
At least I know it is possible (it may cost extra)
Thanks for your advice
I am IT professional, so if anyone has any pressing IT issues
Do pass it my way and I would try to offer the same back
Regards
| |
| Bobk207 2007-05-18, 1:25 pm |
| On May 17, 11:59 am, Pat <gro...@artisticphotography.us> wrote:
> On May 17, 1:00 pm, chukwuNo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, it is possible. You need to consult a local engineer because you
> have seismic, wind, loading, etc. issues to deal with and they are
> somewhat area-specific. Then there is the weight. I am not an
> engineer, so don't rely on this or assume it's right, but anyway say
> concrete weighs 150 per cubit foot. Say you cantilever out 4.5 feet
> and it is 12 feet long (roughly 1.5x4meters) Say it is 2 feet thick.
> That is 18.5 cubic feet or 2,775 lbs. (1,258 kilos). So basically you
> need enough structure and support to hold up a small car.
>
> Concrete has interesting characteristics. It is really great for
> compression strength but really lousy for most other forces. So
> without a pretty fair amount of steel inside of it, it will snap off
> with what you want to do.
>
> If you know who did the thing that you showed a picture of, use that
> person for what you want to do. You'll need design help or you'll get
> into trouble really fast.
Pat-
I think your volume / weight calcs are a little low.......for 4.5' x
12' x 2'
I get 4 yds ..........about 16,000 lbs
A thickness of 2' is a little thick
OP-
What you want to do is easily doable IF you get it designed properly.
Take a look on the web for high rise apt buildings in mild climates
I would suggest making your "overhang / deck wider than
1.5m...........
something more like 2 or 2.5 or maybe even 3m becuase too narrow will
really limit the use of the deck
As soon as you put some chairs or a table on it you will no longer be
able to move about easily
cheers
Bob
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| Warm Worm 2007-05-19, 3:25 am |
| On May 18, 4:22 am, chukwuNo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Thanks a lot
> At least I know it is possible (it may cost extra)
>
> Thanks for your advice
> I am IT professional, so if anyone has any pressing IT issues
> Do pass it my way and I would try to offer the same back
>
Ok... How do I get pure:dyne's ISO file on my hard drive running on my
4-gig USB flash drive? 
https://devel.goto10.org/puredyne
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| Ken S. Tucker 2007-05-19, 1:25 pm |
| On May 17, 1:19 pm, Bob Morrison <SpamFigh...@junk.com> wrote:
> In a previous post Don wrote...
>
>
> Yeah, then the fix gets really expensive!
>
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
> bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallin...ctural_problems
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| Michael Bulatovich 2007-05-19, 1:25 pm |
|
"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1179591183.316122.127120@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On May 17, 1:19 pm, Bob Morrison <SpamFigh...@junk.com> wrote:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallin...ctural_problems
>
"Despite these problems, Fallingwater is widely considered a master's
masterpiece."
Must be a genius!
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| Ken S. Tucker 2007-05-19, 1:25 pm |
| On May 19, 9:16 am, "Michael Bulatovich" <Ple...@dont.try> wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote in messagenews:1179591183.316122.127120@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Despite these problems, Fallingwater is widely considered a master's
> masterpiece."
> Must be a genius!
What if the Mona Lisa faded after a few years?
If FLW did make serious errors, why is the guy
so hyped? Engineering is just math.
Ken
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| Michael Bulatovich 2007-05-19, 1:25 pm |
|
"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1179592961.121182.170570@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 19, 9:16 am, "Michael Bulatovich" <Ple...@dont.try> wrote:
>
> What if the Mona Lisa faded after a few years?
> If FLW did make serious errors, why is the guy
> so hyped? Engineering is just math.
Ever read the guy's bio? He did a lot of original thinking, but followers
make the leader.
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"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:f2n7th02obh@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:1179591183.316122.127120@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> "Despite these problems, Fallingwater is widely considered a master's
> masterpiece."
> Must be a genius!
Define *master*.
-----------------
Number of completed projects?
Dollar value of completed projects?
Length of time in profession?
Ratio of famous clients vs non-famous?
Popularity in the glossy rags?
All of the above?
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| "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
> Engineering is just math.
And judgement.
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| Bob Morrison 2007-05-21, 1:25 pm |
| In a previous post Don wrote...
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> And judgement.
>
>
Don is correct. If it was just math then young engineers coming out of
college wouldn't have to pass through a period called "Engineer-in-
Training" where they learn what to apply the math they learned in college
to real design issues.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
| |
| Ken S. Tucker 2007-05-21, 1:25 pm |
| On May 21, 7:28 am, Bob Morrison <SpamFigh...@junk.com> wrote:
> In a previous post Don wrote...
>
>
>
> Don is correct. If it was just math then young engineers coming out of
> college wouldn't have to pass through a period called "Engineer-in-
> Training" where they learn what to apply the math they learned in college
> to real design issues.
I may be arguing semantics, but I'll add that
engineering is applied physics, and subjectivism
is what one want's to eliminate.
Most of engineering is applications of Vector analysis
in the absence of tables, almost all of it is cantilever.
Anyway, seems FLW's applied engineering was
flawed, (is that rumored). The cantilevers specs in
Fallingwater seem simple enough.
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
> bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
Ken
| |
| Bob Morrison 2007-05-21, 5:25 pm |
| In a previous post Ken S. Tucker wrote...
> I may be arguing semantics, but I'll add that
> engineering is applied physics, and subjectivism
> is what one want's to eliminate.
> Most of engineering is applications of Vector analysis
> in the absence of tables, almost all of it is cantilever.
I can agree that engineering is applied physics. I once had an
engineering professor who argued that one only need to know the 9 laws of
basic physics and calculus. All the rest was derivable. Of course, he was
a pretty smart fella.
> Anyway, seems FLW's applied engineering was
> flawed, (is that rumored). The cantilevers specs in
> Fallingwater seem simple enough.
>
FLW developed a number of design concepts that were definitely ahead of
their time. However, he was not a particularly good engineer. The fact
that many of his buildings have stood as long as they have is both a
testament to overdesign and the inherent overstrength of many construction
materials.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
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