Architecture - I told her where to stick it.

Author

I told her where to stick it.

Don

2008-01-28, 1:26 pm

Her 11' credenza that is.
Seems its an issue for her, but like eye to eye clients web clients on the
upper end require even more handholding.

In real estate its called *buyers Fatigue* but in the residential design
business this is a new occurrence.
It comes from propective homebuilders that search the stock plan files
online and get dizzy in the process.
There's so much out there and very little in the way of bricks and mortar
support that people everywhere are seeking a happy medium.
Like walking across the bridge of the unknown they need a little handholding
and that is not available online, yet.

This current client is in Provence, France and emailed me 8 different online
stockplans that have a little something she likes but her 17th century hand
carved *shrunk*, at least thats what it sounded like what she said (the
picture she sent looked like a big, tiered credenza) won't fit in any of
them. I now must make a haven for it and at least eleventy-nine other
miracles she's requesting. My cellphone is smoking from the 2+ hour verbal
exchange, international deposit check in US funds forthcoming.

8 new *global* clients in 2 months time....I could get used to this but I
gotta admit the language thing might become a major problem.
She spoke better english than I spoke french which is very, very little.

Junior

2008-01-28, 1:26 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:fnl1kh01j2u@news3.newsguy.com...
> Her 11' credenza that is.
> Seems its an issue for her, but like eye to eye clients web clients on the
> upper end require even more handholding.
>
> In real estate its called *buyers Fatigue* but in the residential design
> business this is a new occurrence.
> It comes from propective homebuilders that search the stock plan files
> online and get dizzy in the process.
> There's so much out there and very little in the way of bricks and mortar
> support that people everywhere are seeking a happy medium.
> Like walking across the bridge of the unknown they need a little
> handholding and that is not available online, yet.
>
> This current client is in Provence, France and emailed me 8 different
> online stockplans that have a little something she likes but her 17th
> century hand carved *shrunk*, at least thats what it sounded like what she
> said (the picture she sent looked like a big, tiered credenza) won't fit
> in any of them. I now must make a haven for it and at least eleventy-nine
> other miracles she's requesting. My cellphone is smoking from the 2+ hour
> verbal exchange, international deposit check in US funds forthcoming.
>
> 8 new *global* clients in 2 months time....I could get used to this but I
> gotta admit the language thing might become a major problem.
> She spoke better english than I spoke french which is very, very little.
>

I would hope they don't Google your name. Lots of skeletons there. Good
luck with your new business.

Michael Bulatovich

2008-01-28, 1:26 pm

"Junior" <j@j.wet> wrote in message
news:bcGdnUg5zoyniQPanZ2dnUVZ_o-mnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:fnl1kh01j2u@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> I would hope they don't Google your name. Lots of skeletons there. Good
> luck with your new business.

I don't think I've ever worked for someone who's approached me with stock
plans of any kind. It's a red flag for me that says, "Cheap and without any
sophistication." Not my niche, and probably not worth the time spent on a
good proposal. The crap out there is truly astonishing.

Junior

2008-01-28, 1:26 pm

"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:fnl61o013p@news2.newsguy.com...

>"Cheap and without any sophistication." Not my niche, and probably not
>worth the time spent on a good proposal. The crap out there is truly
>astonishing.

Well the designs may be "Cheap without any sophistication", but that,
coupled with a working spouse has kept Don above water for quite a while, so
who are we to judge.
Besides he already told one client "were to stick it".

Don

2008-01-28, 1:26 pm

"Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
news:fnl61o013p@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> "Junior" <j@j.wet> wrote in message
> news:bcGdnUg5zoyniQPanZ2dnUVZ_o-mnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> I don't think I've ever worked for someone who's approached me with stock
> plans of any kind. It's a red flag for me that says, "Cheap and without
> any sophistication." Not my niche, and probably not worth the time spent
> on a good proposal. The crap out there is truly astonishing.

She liked the coffered ceiling in a 7,000 sf home, some of the kitchen in a
4,000 sf'er, and on and on.
Maybe 10 people have brought stockplans to me over the years under the
imprseeion that they could have them *modified* to suit local conditions.
In every case I broke their hearts by pointing out they got ripped for $800
or so for a plan that won't get built, at least it won't get built in SW FL.

An online stockplan is no differnt than a builders brochure for a model home
that hundreds of people have brought to me over the years.
Finally, I don't have to like the home a client wants to build I just have
to do what they want.
I try to educate them along the way and advise them accordingly but
ultimately it it is them that make the decisions.
Once more: Probably less than 10 out of every 100 homes I've designed have
been what I would consider decent.
I'm my own worst critic.

Don

2008-01-28, 1:26 pm

Pat

2008-01-28, 1:26 pm

On Jan 28, 1:24 pm, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
> "Michael Bulatovich" <Ple...@dont.try> wrote in message
>
> news:fnl61o013p@news2.newsguy.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> She liked the coffered ceiling in a 7,000 sf home, some of the kitchen in a
> 4,000 sf'er, and on and on.
> Maybe 10 people have brought stockplans to me over the years under the
> imprseeion that they could have them *modified* to suit local conditions.
> In every case I broke their hearts by pointing out they got ripped for $800
> or so for a plan that won't get built, at least it won't get built in SW FL.
>
> An online stockplan is no differnt than a builders brochure for a model home
> that hundreds of people have brought to me over the years.
> Finally, I don't have to like the home a client wants to build I just have
> to do what they want.
> I try to educate them along the way and advise them accordingly but
> ultimately it it is them that make the decisions.
> Once more: Probably less than 10 out of every 100 homes I've designed have
> been what I would consider decent.
> I'm my own worst critic.

From what I've seen of stock plans, the biggest problem with many
(most?) of them is that they are dated. Even if they are only 5 years
old, who'd have expected the changes in internet connectivity and
televisions that has happened. In fact, a competitor just built some
gorgeous apartments across town -- absolutely wonderful -- but they
have these big, built-in entertainment centers. But who has that
anymore? The world has went flat-screen in the market he is chasing.

Michael Bulatovich

2008-01-28, 1:26 pm

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:885f7350-0caa-44a9-835c-33c3fb5f7c16@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> From what I've seen of stock plans, the biggest problem with many
> (most?) of them is that they are dated. Even if they are only 5 years
> old, who'd have expected the changes in internet connectivity and
> televisions that has happened. In fact, a competitor just built some
> gorgeous apartments across town -- absolutely wonderful -- but they
> have these big, built-in entertainment centers. But who has that
> anymore? The world has went flat-screen in the market he is chasing.

From what I've seen, they're just plain awful, IMHO. They're done *by*
people who are thinking 'quantity' not 'quality' and *for* people who are
generally thinking the same way.
--

MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

Don

2008-01-28, 5:25 pm

"Junior" <j@j.wet> wrote in message
news:KaKdncM_Rt4lgAPanZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Michael Bulatovich" <Please@dont.try> wrote in message
> news:fnl61o013p@news2.newsguy.com...
>
>
> Well the designs may be "Cheap without any sophistication", but that,
> coupled with a working spouse has kept Don above water for quite a while,
> so who are we to judge.
> Besides he already told one client "were to stick it".

There's a saying that goes something like, "There's only 1 dwg file and
everyone has been editing it ever since."
Houses have walls, floors, ceilings, and roofs, the rest is just personal
preferences.
The house I did for the lady in Birmingham, a strictly web client I never
met in person, sent me 3 different stockplans as a guide but by the time it
was done it didn't even remotely resemble any of them.
I'm ignorant of the contruction costs in Birmingham but in SW FL that house
would cost on the order of $700k+ and I don't consider that cheap.
Another webclient, in Sacremento, sent me 6 stockplans and that house will
be 4000 sf with a semi detached mothers house and a semi detached 4 car
garage, again, I'm estimating in the $700k range in FL dollars.
The trend seems to be that people that seek me out on the web aren't cheap.

Don

2008-01-28, 5:25 pm

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:885f7350-0caa-44a9-835c-33c3fb5f7c16@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 28, 1:24 pm, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
>
> From what I've seen of stock plans, the biggest problem with many
> (most?) of them is that they are dated. Even if they are only 5 years
> old, who'd have expected the changes in internet connectivity and
> televisions that has happened. In fact, a competitor just built some
> gorgeous apartments across town -- absolutely wonderful -- but they
> have these big, built-in entertainment centers. But who has that
> anymore? The world has went flat-screen in the market he is chasing.

Actually the BIGgest problem is that they bring a paper drawing to a digital
world.
I'm speaking of the people that bring them to me directly.
I can't do anything with paper even if I wanted to.
It all has to be redrawn in the CAD.
The stuff I'd been speaking of though were screen caps and direct saves of
floorplans and elevations, etc., nothing to scale.
Basically the client is going for an image.
I tell them of course I won't violate any copyright laws and will use their
ideas instead, then I proceed to grill them on what it is exactly they like
about any given room, etc.
Works out pretty good.
Oh yeah, alot of stockplans have basements, and they are done in FL.
I've looked at some of those stockplan sites and they state the purchaser
can have local people do minor modifications to their plans.
I think thats outright fraud in a way.
caveat emptor

Kris Krieger

2008-01-28, 5:25 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:fnl1kh01j2u@news3.newsguy.com:

> Her 11' credenza that is.
> Seems its an issue for her, but like eye to eye clients web clients on
> the upper end require even more handholding.
>
> In real estate its called *buyers Fatigue* but in the residential
> design business this is a new occurrence.
> It comes from propective homebuilders that search the stock plan files
> online and get dizzy in the process.
> There's so much out there and very little in the way of bricks and
> mortar support that people everywhere are seeking a happy medium.
> Like walking across the bridge of the unknown they need a little
> handholding and that is not available online, yet.

I used to like looking at plan books, and online plans, until I realized
that, if I ever get teh chance to build my own place, it will have ot be
planned in accordance with *my* living, not someone else's. I thinkthat is
the ultimate problem with not only pre-done plans, but for that matter,
pre-built houses. You have to accomidate the plan, when really, if you're
having ti done custom, the whole idea is to have the plan accomidate you.

>
> This current client is in Provence, France and emailed me 8 different
> online stockplans that have a little something she likes but her 17th
> century hand carved *shrunk*, at least thats what it sounded like what
> she said (the picture she sent looked like a big, tiered credenza)
> won't fit in any of them. I now must make a haven for it and at least
> eleventy-nine other miracles she's requesting. My cellphone is smoking
> from the 2+ hour verbal exchange, international deposit check in US
> funds forthcoming.

Holy cow...

I think it'd be good to have pictures of things one likes, but plans,
arrgh, IMO it seems like it would be better to describe how one lives, as
opposed to saying "I wnat this part of plan a, thatpart of plan b, this
thingy from plan c in the middle", and on and on like that.

THat must be very difficult to translate and work with...

>
> 8 new *global* clients in 2 months time....I could get used to this
> but I gotta admit the language thing might become a major problem.
> She spoke better english than I spoke french which is very, very
> little.

Ouch. Good luck. Unfortunately, I know little to no French, either.

Don

2008-01-28, 5:25 pm

"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:13pscuiphmffc6e@corp.supernews.com...
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
> news:fnl1kh01j2u@news3.newsguy.com:
>
>
> I used to like looking at plan books, and online plans, until I realized
> that, if I ever get teh chance to build my own place, it will have ot be
> planned in accordance with *my* living, not someone else's. I thinkthat
> is
> the ultimate problem with not only pre-done plans, but for that matter,
> pre-built houses. You have to accomidate the plan, when really, if you're
> having ti done custom, the whole idea is to have the plan accomidate you.
>
>
> Holy cow...
>
> I think it'd be good to have pictures of things one likes, but plans,
> arrgh, IMO it seems like it would be better to describe how one lives, as
> opposed to saying "I wnat this part of plan a, thatpart of plan b, this
> thingy from plan c in the middle", and on and on like that.
>
> THat must be very difficult to translate and work with...

Actually, its a great facilitator.
Most people cannot descibe what they want very well and a picture is worth a
thousand.
They don't send me the entire plan, just a pic from a website.
If you ask the average person how much square footage they want they will
tell you they have no idea, probably never even heard those words before.
But shown them a 14' x 16' master bedroom and they can tell you right away
if its big enough.
So you go right down the line with each room.
Do a sq ftg tally, tell them the total and then let them decide on how much
they want to spend.
Its a process, a back and forth process.
Once you get the hang of it its kinda fun.

>
> Ouch. Good luck. Unfortunately, I know little to no French, either.

I'm going very slowly with this one, and making the client aware of every
little thing along the way.

Warm Worm

2008-01-28, 5:25 pm

Don wrote:
> "Junior" <j@j.wet> wrote in message
> news:KaKdncM_Rt4lgAPanZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> There's a saying that goes something like, "There's only 1 dwg file and
> everyone has been editing it ever since."
> Houses have walls, floors, ceilings, and roofs, the rest is just personal
> preferences.
> The house I did for the lady in Birmingham, a strictly web client I never
> met in person, sent me 3 different stockplans as a guide but by the time it
> was done it didn't even remotely resemble any of them.
> I'm ignorant of the contruction costs in Birmingham but in SW FL that house
> would cost on the order of $700k+ and I don't consider that cheap.
> Another webclient, in Sacremento, sent me 6 stockplans and that house will
> be 4000 sf with a semi detached mothers house and a semi detached 4 car
> garage, again, I'm estimating in the $700k range in FL dollars.
> The trend seems to be that people that seek me out on the web aren't cheap.

I wonder if there's software out there that could input all the
preferred stock floor-plans received from the client and automatically
generate them into a completely new one that, like an offspring, would
be a completely new plan, yet bear a lineage and resemblance to its parents.

With parametric modeling or some-such, it's probably on its way.

Don

2008-01-28, 8:26 pm

"Warm Worm" <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
news:fnllvf$dvf$1@aioe.org...
> Don wrote:
>
> I wonder if there's software out there that could input all the preferred
> stock floor-plans received from the client and automatically generate them
> into a completely new one that, like an offspring, would be a completely
> new plan, yet bear a lineage and resemblance to its parents.
>
> With parametric modeling or some-such, it's probably on its way.

Not possible.
I won't even address the legal challenges.
There are way too many variables to even come close.
This is where the human brain must excel, remembering thousands of little
things.
I've referred to that as *the designers toolbox*.
His tools are inside his or her head, memories.
If you have 1 tool you can do 1 thing if you have more tools you can do more
things.
A client today told me she likes some of the aspects of the exterior
elevation on what she calls the *triangle house* on my website.
She also liked this that and the other.
I had to pull them altogether and make them work in unison.
Its more art than craft, combined with construction and material knowledge
tied all together with the boundary of codes.
shwew.....
The recipe for killer curb appeal.
You knock em out at the curb then drag their limp body through a fully
functioning and value engineered and properly designed floorplan considering
traffic patterns, furniture placement and volumetrix and balance.
No machine will ever do that unless its a *one size fits all* house.
As far as I'm concerned, the materials the client uses to convey their ideas
to me are just that and nothing more whether they are stock plans, pix,
glossy rags, whatever.
For me its the *talking* part of the communication that pulls it all
together, its critical.

Kris Krieger

2008-01-29, 1:25 pm

Warm Worm <user@domain.invalid> wrote in news:fnllvf$dvf$1@aioe.org:

> Don wrote:
>
> I wonder if there's software out there that could input all the
> preferred stock floor-plans received from the client and automatically
> generate them into a completely new one that, like an offspring, would
> be a completely new plan, yet bear a lineage and resemblance to its
> parents.
>
> With parametric modeling or some-such, it's probably on its way.
>

THat sounds like a complete nightmare...

Kris Krieger

2008-01-29, 5:25 pm

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:fnlfs901hh6@news5.newsguy.com:

>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:13pscuiphmffc6e@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Actually, its a great facilitator.
> Most people cannot descibe what they want very well and a picture is
> worth a thousand.
> They don't send me the entire plan, just a pic from a website.

Oh, I gotcha - I was thinking of stacks of room-layouts one on top of the
other.

> If you ask the average person how much square footage they want they
> will tell you they have no idea, probably never even heard those words
> before. But shown them a 14' x 16' master bedroom and they can tell
> you right away if its big enough.
> So you go right down the line with each room.
> Do a sq ftg tally, tell them the total and then let them decide on how
> much they want to spend.
> Its a process, a back and forth process.
> Once you get the hang of it its kinda fun.

I see - I was, for some reason, picturing/imagining something different.
Probably my "hypercomplexificationalization" gene <L!>

What I did one time, just for grins, was gigure out what sorts of room
sizes and shapes I'd like for various activities, chart them on graph
paper, then cut them all out and play with rearranging them on another
sheet of graph paper. ((Yes, I could certainly do it in both 2D and 3D,
but sometimes I like to work with something physical.)) It was kind fo
interesting to see what sorts fo things would work well, work poorly, and
not work at all.

I guess it's something like that, then...sort of like a puzzle.

>
>
> I'm going very slowly with this one, and making the client aware of
> every little thing along the way.

I don't think that can ever hurt!

Warm Worm

2008-01-30, 9:26 am

Kris Krieger wrote:
> Warm Worm <user@domain.invalid> wrote in news:fnllvf$dvf$1@aioe.org:
>
>
> THat sounds like a complete nightmare...

LOL, ya, after re-reading it with your POV in mind, I can see why you
might think so... Ok, then how about "industrial-strength" parametric
modeling in general then? Something out of Star-Trek perhaps...

Client: "Ok, make me a house... Let's start with a basic floor-plan."
Computer/Arch-Software: "How wide and long?"
Client: "Oh, let's say about '" wide and '" long."
Computer/Arch-Software: (lays out a kind of template floorplan) "Done...
Now tell me about the modifications."
Client: "Ok, that's a start... Let's put the bathroom over here and make
it bigger, and then add a double doorway..."
Computer/Arch-Software: "Done. How does that look?"
Client: "Getting better... Now, I want an extra room here, and another
window here."
Computer/Arch-Software: "Done."
Client: "Make the window a little bigger."
Computer/Arch-Software: "How's that?"
Client: "Bigger."
Computer/Arch-Software: "Okay?"
Client: "A little bigger."
Computer/Arch-Software: "Okay?"
Client: "Too big. Make it smaller."
Computer/Arch-Software: "How's this?"
Client: "Too small... Haha-- just kidding! It was fine way before! Haha!"
Computer/Arch-Software: "It's a good think I work for free."

Don

2008-01-30, 9:26 am

"Warm Worm" <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
news:fnpjjq$tdp$1@aioe.org...
> Kris Krieger wrote:
>
> LOL, ya, after re-reading it with your POV in mind, I can see why you
> might think so... Ok, then how about "industrial-strength" parametric
> modeling in general then? Something out of Star-Trek perhaps...
>
> Client: "Ok, make me a house... Let's start with a basic floor-plan."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "How wide and long?"
> Client: "Oh, let's say about '" wide and '" long."
> Computer/Arch-Software: (lays out a kind of template floorplan) "Done...
> Now tell me about the modifications."
> Client: "Ok, that's a start... Let's put the bathroom over here and make
> it bigger, and then add a double doorway..."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "Done. How does that look?"
> Client: "Getting better... Now, I want an extra room here, and another
> window here."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "Done."
> Client: "Make the window a little bigger."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "How's that?"
> Client: "Bigger."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "Okay?"
> Client: "A little bigger."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "Okay?"
> Client: "Too big. Make it smaller."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "How's this?"
> Client: "Too small... Haha-- just kidding! It was fine way before! Haha!"
> Computer/Arch-Software: "It's a good think I work for free."

4 hours later:

Client: "Now can you flip the whole thing and remove 300 s.f.?
Computer/Arch-Software: "Arrrrggggg.....".

Kris Krieger

2008-01-31, 3:25 am

Warm Worm <user@domain.invalid> wrote in news:fnpjjq$tdp$1@aioe.org:

> Kris Krieger wrote:
>
> LOL, ya, after re-reading it with your POV in mind, I can see why you
> might think so... Ok, then how about "industrial-strength" parametric
> modeling in general then? Something out of Star-Trek perhaps...

The thing isi, what you desctibe below is already done by designers.

ASFIK, the human brain is still (at least in some cases ;) ) the
greatest computer of all. I don't understand the rush to try to replace
it with computers - that still have to be designed, created, and
programmed by humans...

The computer is a great tool for some things, but that's it - a tool. A
hammer is also a great tool for some things. A hammer and a computer
are usually not interchangeable, tho'.

>
> Client: "Ok, make me a house... Let's start with a basic floor-plan."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "How wide and long?"
> Client: "Oh, let's say about '" wide and '" long."
> Computer/Arch-Software: (lays out a kind of template floorplan)
> "Done... Now tell me about the modifications."
> Client: "Ok, that's a start... Let's put the bathroom over here and
> make it bigger, and then add a double doorway..."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "Done. How does that look?"
> Client: "Getting better... Now, I want an extra room here, and another
> window here."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "Done."
> Client: "Make the window a little bigger."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "How's that?"
> Client: "Bigger."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "Okay?"
> Client: "A little bigger."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "Okay?"
> Client: "Too big. Make it smaller."
> Computer/Arch-Software: "How's this?"
> Client: "Too small... Haha-- just kidding! It was fine way before!
> Haha!" Computer/Arch-Software: "It's a good think I work for free."
>

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