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Engineering question of the day
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| "Cliff"> wrote
> "How much does a house weigh?"
>
> http://amazinglyenough.blogspot.com...ouse-weigh.html
From the site:
I believe government should exist to .... and to prevent anarchy.
------------------------------------------
IOW: The gov't should exist in order to prevent the absence of gov't.
Say what?
The writer has fallen for the same old MSM indoctrination method that has
hijacked the nation.
That is, that the word anarchy means chaos.
Specifically, the definition of the word anarchy is: the absence of gov't.
Look it up.
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| prefab falling water?
"mr.T" <mr.T@Somewhere Far away from the rainbow.com> wrote in message
news:O3Duj.1202$pl4.1052@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> Cool
>
> Put in couple more garage door and turn it into tool booth or drive thru
>
>
> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:ddokr39d43ihghbrjp7b02okvfddfjtmeq@4ax.com...
>
>
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| Troppo 2008-02-19, 5:25 pm |
| Cliff <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in
news:ddokr39d43ihghbrjp7b02okvfddfjtmeq@4ax.com:
> "How much does a house weigh?"
> http://amazinglyenough.blogspot.com...oes-house-weigh
> .html
New or recycled house?
Around here it would have been cut in half or built in two bolt-together
pieces. The trailer and house held up ok. Would be interesting to see how
they got it off. Nice battery of hydraulic rams I guess.
"There is an engineering solution to every problem" as long as someone pays
....
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"Troppo" <troppo19@notsohotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4A426EBBDDBtroppo19notsohotmail@210.8.230.25...
> Cliff <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in
> news:ddokr39d43ihghbrjp7b02okvfddfjtmeq@4ax.com:
>
>
> New or recycled house?
> Around here it would have been cut in half or built in two bolt-together
> pieces. The trailer and house held up ok. Would be interesting to see how
> they got it off. Nice battery of hydraulic rams I guess.
> "There is an engineering solution to every problem" as long as someone
> pays
In Cape Coral FL awhile back they built a brand new bridge with upramps and
all that and in the process moved something like 80 houses to new locations.
Concrete block houses complete with concrete slabs, footings, all of it, in
one piece.
As of 2 years ago some of them were still sitting on trailers in vacant lots
waiting to be re-planted.
They would move them down the streets early in the morning, 3 am, and yank
the overhead power wires, traffic signals, etc.
These were houses in the 1500-2500 sf range.
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| Chuck News 2008-02-20, 3:25 am |
|
"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:fpej5v02puo@news5.newsguy.com...
> "Cliff"> wrote
>
>
> From the site:
> I believe government should exist to .... and to prevent anarchy.
> ------------------------------------------
> IOW: The gov't should exist in order to prevent the absence of gov't.
>
> Say what?
> The writer has fallen for the same old MSM indoctrination method that has
> hijacked the nation.
> That is, that the word anarchy means chaos.
> Specifically, the definition of the word anarchy is: the absence of gov't.
> Look it up.
>
For heaven sake everyone knows it is "plenty pounds per square foot"
CID...
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| Troppo 2008-02-20, 9:26 am |
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:fpfgln0l29@news5.newsguy.com:
>
> "Troppo" <troppo19@notsohotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A4A426EBBDDBtroppo19notsohotmail@210.8.230.25...
>
> In Cape Coral FL awhile back they built a brand new bridge with
> upramps and all that and in the process moved something like 80 houses
> to new locations. Concrete block houses complete with concrete slabs,
> footings, all of it, in one piece.
> As of 2 years ago some of them were still sitting on trailers in
> vacant lots waiting to be re-planted.
> They would move them down the streets early in the morning, 3 am, and
> yank the overhead power wires, traffic signals, etc.
> These were houses in the 1500-2500 sf range.
139 - 232m2 ... some scary weight there - any images available?
Heaviest thing that moved around here in recent years was a church, but
in three pieces (it had moved before so the same cut lines could be
used).
A fair amount of heritage stuff gets relocated, mostly hardwood framed
and clad. Too expensive to build with the stuff now, and not PC to
harvest it. But it stacks up as an example of 'sustainability' in
practice - most of the embodied energy being retained for the indefinite
future etc.
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"Troppo" <troppo19@notsohotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4AD30B32703troppo19notsohotmail@210.8.230.25...
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
> news:fpfgln0l29@news5.newsguy.com:
>
>
> 139 - 232m2 ... some scary weight there - any images available?
> Heaviest thing that moved around here in recent years was a church, but
> in three pieces (it had moved before so the same cut lines could be
> used).
> A fair amount of heritage stuff gets relocated, mostly hardwood framed
> and clad. Too expensive to build with the stuff now, and not PC to
> harvest it. But it stacks up as an example of 'sustainability' in
> practice - most of the embodied energy being retained for the indefinite
> future etc.
No pix.
They may not be sitting around anymore.
I personally wouldn't buy a house like that.
In my opinion concrete houses shouldn't be moved.
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"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:9c910850-6404-46f7-afe6-9d2655356a08@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 18, 9:09 pm, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Plain and simple, "squatters rights".
> Ken
Sent the pictures to a Structural Engineer friend as a joke. He says that
the bridge was probably structurally deficient if it was designed for H20
vehicles with 32,000 lb. axle loads.
EDS
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"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:fph777023vn@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> "Troppo" <troppo19@notsohotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A4AD30B32703troppo19notsohotmail@210.8.230.25...
>
> No pix.
> They may not be sitting around anymore.
> I personally wouldn't buy a house like that.
> In my opinion concrete houses shouldn't be moved.
>
Why not? Properly moved they should have no damage. About 15 years ago I was
the architect for the moving of the Southeast lighthouse on Block Island RI.
A brick structure 70' tall with a 2 family brick attached brick structure.
Walls of the light were 3' thick at the base. 4' base was granite over brick
backup. Originally built in 1870. The 150' bluff it was on had eroded back
200' in 120 years, so we moved it back 250'. We did build a new foundation.
It was moved on rails in one piece, with no cracks.Here is the whole
history: http://lighthouse.cc/blockisoutheast/history.html
EDS
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| Ken S. Tucker 2008-02-20, 1:26 pm |
| On Feb 20, 8:34 am, "EDS" <sno...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote in messagenews:9c910850-6404-46f7-afe6-9d2655356a08@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...> On Feb 18, 9:09 pm, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sent the pictures to a Structural Engineer friend as a joke. He says that
> the bridge was probably structurally deficient if it was designed for H20
> vehicles with 32,000 lb. axle loads.
> EDS
If any of you guys learn the fall-out from that
"accident", let us know.
I'm wondering if the municipality is on the hook
if a LOAD SIGN was not posted, and what they
did to solve the problem.
Ken
LOL, "if the municipality is on the hook" could
they issue tickets for *parking illegally* to cover
their asses?
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| Michael Bulatovich 2008-02-20, 1:26 pm |
|
"EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lLednRzErKFYxiHanZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@comcast.com...
> About 15 years ago I was the architect for the moving of the Southeast
> lighthouse on Block Island RI. A brick structure 70' tall with a 2 family
> brick attached brick structure. Walls of the light were 3' thick at the
> base. 4' base was granite over brick backup. Originally built in 1870. The
> 150' bluff it was on had eroded back 200' in 120 years, so we moved it
> back 250'. We did build a new foundation. It was moved on rails in one
> piece, with no cracks.Here is the whole history:
> http://lighthouse.cc/blockisoutheast/history.html
> EDS
I hope you guys took pictures of it moving.
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| Ken S. Tucker 2008-02-20, 1:26 pm |
| On Feb 20, 8:56 am, "EDS" <sno...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fph777023vn@news2.newsguy.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Why not? Properly moved they should have no damage. About 15 years ago I was
> the architect for the moving of the Southeast lighthouse on Block Island RI.
> A brick structure 70' tall with a 2 family brick attached brick structure.
> Walls of the light were 3' thick at the base. 4' base was granite over brick
> backup. Originally built in 1870. The 150' bluff it was on had eroded back
> 200' in 120 years, so we moved it back 250'. We did build a new foundation.
> It was moved on rails in one piece, with no cracks.Here is the whole
> history:http://lighthouse.cc/blockisoutheast/history.html
> EDS
Wow EDS, I think I saw that on educational TV!
(Discovery or some darn thing), had my eyeballs
glued to the TV. The mission scale is on a par
with straighening the Leaning Tower full of Pizza.
Ken
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"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:7fc90d22-3ae6-41da-a1ba-c40fbba352dd@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 20, 8:56 am, "EDS" <sno...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Wow EDS, I think I saw that on educational TV!
> (Discovery or some darn thing), had my eyeballs
> glued to the TV. The mission scale is on a par
> with straighening the Leaning Tower full of Pizza.
> Ken
It was on PBS, maybe some other shows. Of course the worker bees, the
architects, engineers, and local folks, are never mentioned but it was
pretty good. We went to the relighting party, with the politicos and their
ilk talking. but the food was good and free. BTW lubrication for the rails
was Ivory Snow soap.
EDS
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"EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:TPGdnW8UMZdjACHanZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
>
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:7fc90d22-3ae6-41da-a1ba-c40fbba352dd@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> It was on PBS, maybe some other shows. Of course the worker bees, the
> architects, engineers, and local folks, are never mentioned but it was
> pretty good. We went to the relighting party, with the politicos and their
> ilk talking. but the food was good and free. BTW lubrication for the rails
> was Ivory Snow soap.
> EDS
Do you think a wood framed house is a little more *flexible* than a concrete
block house?
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"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:fpi8sv01mj7@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:TPGdnW8UMZdjACHanZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> Do you think a wood framed house is a little more *flexible* than a
> concrete block house?
>
>
Yes, but the CMU house can be moved, but requires more care.
EDS
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| Kris Krieger 2008-02-21, 1:26 pm |
| "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
news:n4-dnRsAvdl2NyHanZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:fpi8sv01mj7@news2.newsguy.com...
> Yes, but the CMU house can be moved, but requires more care.
> EDS
>
DO you think,then, that there is a use/market for perfab concrete
buildings (residential or commercial)? Would there be an advantage to
that? I know that prefabbed "stick" houses have the advantage of having
all the [parts built in dry conditions, and that the assembly is fast.
Anything similar for concrete?
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:13rr935mro2u702@corp.supernews.com...
> "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:n4-dnRsAvdl2NyHanZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
> DO you think,then, that there is a use/market for perfab concrete
> buildings (residential or commercial)? Would there be an advantage to
> that? I know that prefabbed "stick" houses have the advantage of having
> all the [parts built in dry conditions, and that the assembly is fast.
> Anything similar for concrete?
>
>
>
Actually yes, particularly precast concrete. I do a lot of water treatment
and sewer treatment facilities. The smaller pump stations, up to about 11 x
30 are often just precast boxes, with openings for doors, louvers, etc. We
lower them into the ground, fasten to a tiedown slab (to prevent uplift),
stack to height required, then waterproof exterior. If exposed, they get
faced with singles or brick and a pitched roof. Add lattice work to the
outside and a wisteria vine and everyone is happy. In the late 60's I worked
on precast apartment blocks with concrete walls. Tenants were not to happy
with those cold walls. Also tried 3/4" brick facing cast into precast
exterior walls. Worked great, but looked fake as it was too perfect.
EDS
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| Kris Krieger 2008-02-21, 1:26 pm |
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:fpk9i001t40@news2.newsguy.com:
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:13rr935mro2u702@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Did you know jail cells have been pre-fab since at least the 80's?
No, I didn't know that :o
> Yep, they are 5 sided precast concrete boxes with keyed joints and are
> stacked in place.
> The plumbing is 1 piece stainless steel, shitter & sink, the door is 1
> piece and the racks (beds) are precast concrete with the walls.
> When a country is imprisoning people at the rate the US is they had to
> figure out a fast way to put these things together.
> They load about 12 of em on a flatboy and truck em to the site and a
> crane stacks em right there.
> Just put em together like fullscale Legos.
Huh, I didn't know that.
So why are houses such a production...?
> Don't bother with a *vacancy* sign, there's already a potential
> backlog of customers.
Heh.
Problem is, I dunno which is worse, the State so to speak, or the
populace with the increasing "rules are for everyone else" sort of
narcissistic sociopathology...
Well, in any event, the "Lego" thing is interesting. I'm assuming
they're sturdy and last a good many years, too. Which just brings me
back to wondering why so much other construction, esp. residential, is
such a production and, all too often, so, well, er, shoddy...?
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:13rr935mro2u702@corp.supernews.com...
> "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:n4-dnRsAvdl2NyHanZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
> DO you think,then, that there is a use/market for perfab concrete
> buildings (residential or commercial)? Would there be an advantage to
> that? I know that prefabbed "stick" houses have the advantage of having
> all the [parts built in dry conditions, and that the assembly is fast.
> Anything similar for concrete?
Did you know jail cells have been pre-fab since at least the 80's?
Yep, they are 5 sided precast concrete boxes with keyed joints and are
stacked in place.
The plumbing is 1 piece stainless steel, shitter & sink, the door is 1 piece
and the racks (beds) are precast concrete with the walls.
When a country is imprisoning people at the rate the US is they had to
figure out a fast way to put these things together.
They load about 12 of em on a flatboy and truck em to the site and a crane
stacks em right there.
Just put em together like fullscale Legos.
Don't bother with a *vacancy* sign, there's already a potential backlog of
customers.
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| Kris Krieger 2008-02-21, 5:26 pm |
| "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
news:Y_idnbsu89DaMSDanZ2dnUVZ_oaonZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:13rr935mro2u702@corp.supernews.com...
[snipped][color=darkred]
> Actually yes, particularly precast concrete. I do a lot of water
> treatment and sewer treatment facilities. The smaller pump stations,
> up to about 11 x 30 are often just precast boxes, with openings for
> doors, louvers, etc. We lower them into the ground, fasten to a
> tiedown slab (to prevent uplift), stack to height required, then
> waterproof exterior. If exposed, they get faced with singles or brick
> and a pitched roof.
Oh! Hmm, so what is the cost of, say, two of those 11'X30' precast
units, compared with the cost of a similarly-sized one storey house
structure (not lal the plumbing etc), IOW, what I'm wonering is whetehr
it'd be economical to put up dwellings in a similar way?
> Add lattice work to the outside and a wisteria
> vine and everyone is happy.
And IIRC, if you use native North American wisteria, it doesn't get as
crazy-huge as does the common CHinese wisteria <g!>
> In the late 60's I worked on precast
> apartment blocks with concrete walls. Tenants were not to happy with
> those cold walls. Also tried 3/4" brick facing cast into precast
> exterior walls. Worked great, but looked fake as it was too perfect.
> EDS
Seriously...? I've lived in low-rises, where the walls are pretty much
just regular hosue-type walls, and you could hear *everything*,
including, er, bathroom functions. You could also *smell* everything,
which is bad when the neighbors' place reek slike rotting garbage. It
was *maddening* - one of those things that makes you understand why
people start shooting off guns... It seems to me that concrete would be
much quieter. ALso, why not put up a few studs on each side fo the
concrete, throw in some insulation, and cover with sheetrock? Sheetrock
has to be put up anyway, doesn't it?
It makes me wonder why that method is so rare. Isther eless stability,
strength, or longevity? I'm curious about this. It *seems* like there
would be a great amny advantages to modular building, so all I can think
is that it must be as expensive as all hell...
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:13rre1jlrftug24@corp.supernews.com...
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
> news:fpk9i001t40@news2.newsguy.com:
>
>
> No, I didn't know that :o
>
>
> Huh, I didn't know that.
>
> So why are houses such a production...?
>
>
> Heh.
>
> Problem is, I dunno which is worse, the State so to speak, or the
> populace with the increasing "rules are for everyone else" sort of
> narcissistic sociopathology...
>
> Well, in any event, the "Lego" thing is interesting. I'm assuming
> they're sturdy and last a good many years, too. Which just brings me
> back to wondering why so much other construction, esp. residential, is
> such a production and, all too often, so, well, er, shoddy...?
Speaking of Lego's, here's a horrfying scenario I dropped in on in my web
travels and I didn't have to do the whole thing to get my fill.
Is there such a thing as pedophilia of the mind?
http://www.rethinkingschools.org/ar...2/lego212.shtml
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| Ken S. Tucker 2008-02-21, 5:26 pm |
| On Feb 21, 12:06 pm, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
> "Kris Krieger" <m...@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
>
> news:13rre1jlrftug24@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
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>
>
> Speaking of Lego's, here's a horrfying scenario I dropped in on in my web
> travels and I didn't have to do the whole thing to get my fill.
> Is there such a thing as pedophilia of the mind?
>
> http://www.rethinkingschools.org/ar...2/lego212.shtml
Please, don't use the "p-word" in the same post with Lego.
Our two kids, wife and I would build a Lego city, you rolled
the dice and collected your blocks, and of course you can
trade blocks if someone cornered the fancy ones.
Free enterprise.
((Daughter is a whiny one, her younger brother would
take the blocks she'd likely need)).
Ken
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|
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:13rremj9g2vhqcd@corp.supernews.com...
> "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:Y_idnbsu89DaMSDanZ2dnUVZ_oaonZ2d@comcast.com:
>
> [snipped]
>
> Oh! Hmm, so what is the cost of, say, two of those 11'X30' precast
> units, compared with the cost of a similarly-sized one storey house
> structure (not lal the plumbing etc), IOW, what I'm wonering is whetehr
> it'd be economical to put up dwellings in a similar way?
>
>
> And IIRC, if you use native North American wisteria, it doesn't get as
> crazy-huge as does the common CHinese wisteria <g!>
>
>
> Seriously...? I've lived in low-rises, where the walls are pretty much
> just regular hosue-type walls, and you could hear *everything*,
> including, er, bathroom functions. You could also *smell* everything,
> which is bad when the neighbors' place reek slike rotting garbage. It
> was *maddening* - one of those things that makes you understand why
> people start shooting off guns... It seems to me that concrete would be
> much quieter. ALso, why not put up a few studs on each side fo the
> concrete, throw in some insulation, and cover with sheetrock? Sheetrock
> has to be put up anyway, doesn't it?
>
> It makes me wonder why that method is so rare. Isther eless stability,
> strength, or longevity? I'm curious about this. It *seems* like there
> would be a great amny advantages to modular building, so all I can think
> is that it must be as expensive as all hell...
>
>
I like the Chinese Wisteria. In Boston we had a really ugly fire escape on
the front of the house, so I planted a Wisteria. Within 5 years it had
climbed to the roof, 4 stories above, and formed a complete cover for the
house front. My kids hacked out a "wisteria house" outside the top floor
windows on the top F.E. platform and spied upon and dropped water bombs on
their friends. When we remodeled 10 years later, we found that the wisteria
had bent the steel F.E. supports. I presently have a wisteria that covers my
porch each summer.
The projects I mentioned just painted the concrete, as wallboarding would
have added costs. In the 60's nobody talked about insulation. These were HUD
221d3 blocks and gov't recommended insulation was none in the walls and 1"
Styrofoam on the roof. The exterior walls had condensate on them in the
winter and ice in the hallways. Cost for each apt. could not to exceed
$14,500, or about $20 per square foot. Concrete is quieter, but impact (such
as high heels on floors) comes right through. Hell to hang pictures on also
;-) Don is right, the road to Hell is paved with good government intentions.
EDS
| |
| Kris Krieger 2008-02-21, 5:26 pm |
| "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in
news:fpklnj02ae4@news2.newsguy.com:
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:13rre1jlrftug24@corp.supernews.com...
[snipped]
>
> Speaking of Lego's, here's a horrfying scenario I dropped in on in my
> web travels and I didn't have to do the whole thing to get my fill.
> Is there such a thing as pedophilia of the mind?
>
> http://www.rethinkingschools.org/ar...2/lego212.shtml
>
Holy cow.
I wonder ho wmuch time was devoted to teaching the kids to do things like
read and od arithmatic...? I'm certainly not against trying to teach kids
"larger issues", but given this is a daycare, I assume the kids are
preschoolers or kindergarteners, and I suspect that the authors were
reading way too much into what the kids were saying and doing. If the kids
weren't sharing, then the answer would have been to nip it in the bud, not
let it develop into a huge monster of a thing. I'm also not convinced that
doing things like taking away the LEgos, or having kids pick out 10 and
*then* assigning point values, is much of a lesson other than adults are
capricious.
I also doubt that a young child would *actually* say "It's important that
the little Lego plastic person has some identity." Maybe, "the little
plastic guy needs a name", but not that spiel about an "identity". That,
(and a few other things) comes across as manipulation of the data.
I should run this by the friend I have who's been a schoolteacher for over
20 years, see what she thinks.
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| Kris Krieger 2008-02-21, 5:26 pm |
| "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
news:-ZadneP_QaP9eyDanZ2dnUVZ_tajnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:13rremj9g2vhqcd@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I like the Chinese Wisteria. In Boston we had a really ugly fire
> escape on the front of the house, so I planted a Wisteria. Within 5
> years it had climbed to the roof, 4 stories above, and formed a
> complete cover for the house front. My kids hacked out a "wisteria
> house" outside the top floor windows on the top F.E. platform and
> spied upon and dropped water bombs on their friends. When we remodeled
> 10 years later, we found that the wisteria had bent the steel F.E.
> supports. I presently have a wisteria that covers my porch each
> summer.
Each has their uses. Sometimes, a smaller one is appropriate. Also,
WIsteria can go truely rampant in a mild climate... I don't recall how
they climb - some tendrils can invade morter, and some vines (IIRC,
Trumpet Vine is one) also have sucker-like things that seem to create a
sort of "glue".
So you have to check the moreter etc. to be sure that you have your
structural integrity intact. I don't recall how long all of this takes;
jsut tht it's a possiblity that makes checking a good idea.
They do smell great, tho' ;)
>
> The projects I mentioned just painted the concrete, as wallboarding
> would have added costs. In the 60's nobody talked about insulation.
THat's true. OTOH, could it be retrofitted...?
> These were HUD 221d3 blocks and gov't recommended insulation was none
> in the walls and 1" Styrofoam on the roof. The exterior walls had
> condensate on them in the winter and ice in the hallways. Cost for
> each apt. could not to exceed $14,500, or about $20 per square foot.
> Concrete is quieter, but impact (such as high heels on floors) comes
> right through. Hell to hang pictures on also ;-) Don is right, the
> road to Hell is paved with good government intentions. EDS
True, bare bones like that wouldn't work well at all...
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:13rrtvme4hgpk15@corp.supernews.com...
> "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:-ZadneP_QaP9eyDanZ2dnUVZ_tajnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
> Each has their uses. Sometimes, a smaller one is appropriate. Also,
> WIsteria can go truely rampant in a mild climate... I don't recall how
> they climb - some tendrils can invade morter, and some vines (IIRC,
> Trumpet Vine is one) also have sucker-like things that seem to create a
> sort of "glue".
>
> So you have to check the moreter etc. to be sure that you have your
> structural integrity intact. I don't recall how long all of this takes;
> jsut tht it's a possiblity that makes checking a good idea.
>
> They do smell great, tho' ;)
>
>
>
> THat's true. OTOH, could it be retrofitted...?
>
>
> True, bare bones like that wouldn't work well at all...
>
>
Wisteria climb by wrapping tendrils around trees, fencing, fire escapes,
etc. They do grow fast, do not damage masonry.
EDS
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| Kris Krieger 2008-02-21, 8:25 pm |
| "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
news:2LydnXpRsqgFkiPanZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:13rrtvme4hgpk15@corp.supernews.com...
[ ...]
> Wisteria climb by wrapping tendrils around trees, fencing, fire
> escapes, etc. They do grow fast, do not damage masonry.
> EDS
>
Ah, I see, I'm not that familiar with them so I didn't know. I
remember, when I lived in Columbia, SC many years back, seeing them
covering phone poles and going across teh wires to travel back down
trees, and so on - there was one street in particular that was just
loaded with them, and when they were in bloom, it smelled great 
IIRC, there is a black locust (or some sort of locust) that grows fast,
does not sucker or have thorns, and also have a wonderful scent; had one
growing outside of a 2nd storey apt window in Canada.
Still wondering, tho', about the whole modular concrete house thing. It
seems practical from the standpoint of being termite-proof (a biggie
down here) and rot proof (another biggie), but would it be practical and
economical?
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:13rs5d1k8edrkd0@corp.supernews.com...
> "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:2LydnXpRsqgFkiPanZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
> [ ...]
>
>
> Ah, I see, I'm not that familiar with them so I didn't know. I
> remember, when I lived in Columbia, SC many years back, seeing them
> covering phone poles and going across teh wires to travel back down
> trees, and so on - there was one street in particular that was just
> loaded with them, and when they were in bloom, it smelled great
>
> IIRC, there is a black locust (or some sort of locust) that grows fast,
> does not sucker or have thorns, and also have a wonderful scent; had one
> growing outside of a 2nd storey apt window in Canada.
>
> Still wondering, tho', about the whole modular concrete house thing. It
> seems practical from the standpoint of being termite-proof (a biggie
> down here) and rot proof (another biggie), but would it be practical and
> economical?
>
>
>
We used to dream of extruding concrete houses, but there are some problems:
-To be accurate and be able to piece the thing together, skilled workers
must be used, not the wood knockers used in prefab buildings.
-Weight. Heavy equipment and cranes are needed.
-Public attitude.
I designed a large car wash / lube / detailing building that is just getting
completed. We used a Canadian system (Royal Building System) that has
permanent PVC forms that lock together and hold the reinforcing in place.
The forms are grouted solid to produce an 8" or 6" solid wall. In our case,
we applied a minimum 2" EIFS insulation/stucco facing on the outside. All
interior areas are a smooth white PVC finish. This system is much easier to
manipulate and frankly looks a lot better.
EDS
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| Kris Krieger 2008-02-22, 1:25 pm |
| "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
news:oZCdnV-S8tbXgiPanZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:13rs5d1k8edrkd0@corp.supernews.com...
> We used to dream of extruding concrete houses, but there are some
> problems: -To be accurate and be able to piece the thing together,
> skilled workers must be used, not the wood knockers used in prefab
> buildings. -Weight. Heavy equipment and cranes are needed.
> -Public attitude.
SO, being rare, it'd be impossibly expensive, I guess. 
> I designed a large car wash / lube / detailing building that is just
> getting completed. We used a Canadian system (Royal Building System)
> that has permanent PVC forms that lock together and hold the
> reinforcing in place. The forms are grouted solid to produce an 8" or
> 6" solid wall. In our case, we applied a minimum 2" EIFS
> insulation/stucco facing on the outside. All interior areas are a
> smooth white PVC finish. This system is much easier to manipulate and
> frankly looks a lot better. EDS
THat sounds practical - just out of curiosity, how is it on the "green"
scale? COme to think of it, is concrete more or less "green" than wood
products (taking into consideration things such as maintenance and
longevity)?
((Heh, my dream, a house I could just hose down on the inside <LOL!> ))
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"Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
news:13rts4q5pmrlj88@corp.supernews.com...
> "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:oZCdnV-S8tbXgiPanZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
> SO, being rare, it'd be impossibly expensive, I guess.
>
>
> THat sounds practical - just out of curiosity, how is it on the "green"
> scale? COme to think of it, is concrete more or less "green" than wood
> products (taking into consideration things such as maintenance and
> longevity)?
>
> ((Heh, my dream, a house I could just hose down on the inside <LOL!> ))
>
Why do you think we used it for a car wash?
Concrete is not very green. Lots of energy used to produce Portland cement.
Concrete is not very recyclable. Steel is actually quite green as most of it
is recycled and many times can be reused. Wood is OK as it can be replaced
and often can be reused. The greenest is to live in an old house;-)
EDS
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| Kris Krieger 2008-02-22, 8:25 pm |
| "EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
news:a4qdnZONi5H5lCLanZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
>
> "Kris Krieger" <me@dowmuff.in> wrote in message
> news:13rts4q5pmrlj88@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Why do you think we used it for a car wash?
> Concrete is not very green. Lots of energy used to produce Portland
> cement. Concrete is not very recyclable. Steel is actually quite green
> as most of it is recycled and many times can be reused. Wood is OK as
> it can be replaced and often can be reused. The greenest is to live in
> an old house;-) EDS
Good to know re: concrete, thanks for the info!
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Kris Krieger wrote:
>"EDS" <snowed@comcast.net> wrote in
>news:a4qdnZONi5H5lCLanZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
>
>
>Good to know re: concrete, thanks for the info!
>
>
Consider the precast concrete Roman foundations and earthworks including
pipes over two millenia old . However green, longevity counts as you
are not wasting through replacing.
>
>
>
>
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"++" <friend@spambot.com> wrote in message
news:Xomdne_StLQYwSLanZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@rcn.net...[color=darkred]
>
>
> Kris Krieger wrote:
>
>
> Consider the precast concrete Roman foundations and earthworks including
> pipes over two millenia old . However green, longevity counts as you are
> not wasting through replacing.
>
Normal concrete will not hold up as well. The Roman concrete was made with
Pozzolanic (volcanic) sand from Vesuvius that is molecularly different than
normal sand. I'm no chemist, but as I remember it bonds on the molecular
level with slaked lime to form a waterproof concrete. This concrete also
sets up under water. Here in Boston the Big Dig and several deep parking
garages adjacent to the harbor have used slurry walls made of this material
rough poured down to over 60' below sea level and reinforced with wide
flange steel sections. (Yeah I know the Big Dig leaks, but its not the
slurry walls, but the stuff drilled through them and the crappy design by
Bechtel.)
EDS
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| Ken S. Tucker 2008-02-23, 8:25 pm |
| On Feb 22, 5:25 pm, "EDS" <sno...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "++" <fri...@spambot.com> wrote in message
>
> news:Xomdne_StLQYwSLanZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Normal concrete will not hold up as well. The Roman concrete was made with
> Pozzolanic (volcanic) sand from Vesuvius that is molecularly different than
> normal sand. I'm no chemist, but as I remember it bonds on the molecular
> level with slaked lime to form a waterproof concrete. This concrete also
> sets up under water. Here in Boston the Big Dig and several deep parking
> garages adjacent to the harbor have used slurry walls made of this material
> rough poured down to over 60' below sea level and reinforced with wide
> flange steel sections. (Yeah I know the Big Dig leaks, but its not the
> slurry walls, but the stuff drilled through them and the crappy design by
> Bechtel.)
> EDS
In Ontario, to put an extension on piers, go down
4', sonotube, 4 scoops of sand, 1 mortar, add H2O
pour and I stuck a treaded rod in the pier top to
keep the building from flying around during tornados.
In BC the code calls for an aggregate specification,
the pebbles have to be the right size, including max
vegetable content, I guess that's to keep the BC bud
out of the piers.
But they only asked for 2' depth.
What we did is dig our holes like an upside down
mushroom and poured into sonotubes raised so
we had a larger contact surface, a bit of over kill.
Ken
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"Ken S. Tucker" <dynamics@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:08ce4b15-196e-4609-82c3-cc56aa43ef2f@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 22, 5:25 pm, "EDS" <sno...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> In Ontario, to put an extension on piers, go down
> 4', sonotube, 4 scoops of sand, 1 mortar, add H2O
> pour
Podden me but......
I used 4' sonatubes (cut 8 footers in half) and used 2-80lb bags of sakrete
* maybe 5 gallons of water, each.
I don't think 4+1 is gonna get it.
It'll only be 1/2 full.
Second, once the tube was full I used a 6' piece of 3/4" pvc to *tamp* it
down.
That is, about 20 times I pushed the PVC all the way down to the bottom and
then withdrew it and this had the effect of releasing the air that was
trapped in the pour, allowing the concrete to settle, and then I topped it
off with more mud.
Then I sunk a Simpson CB44 post anchor in the top, then used a small trowel
to shape the top of the mud so it sloped to the edge all the way around for
rain runoff.
and I stuck a treaded rod in the pier top to
> keep the building from flying around during tornados.
>
> In BC the code calls for an aggregate specification,
> the pebbles have to be the right size, including max
> vegetable content, I guess that's to keep the BC bud
> out of the piers.
Rule of thumb:
The drier the pour the stronger the mix.
If the pour is real loose (wet) the concrete will be easy to work with but
will have poor strength.
(unless you're talking about hydraulic concrete which is a whole nuther
animal)
> But they only asked for 2' depth.
> What we did is dig our holes like an upside down
> mushroom
Thats what I did too and its a good idea, I think.
I augered the holes with my 8" Earth Auger then used a post hole digger to
ream the bottoms out bigger.
and poured into sonotubes raised so
> we had a larger contact surface, a bit of over kill.
> Ken
Overkill is a good thang, says Martha.
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| johnscheldroup@gmail.com 2008-02-26, 5:26 pm |
| On Feb 26, 7:13 am, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:37:16 -0500, <g...@gjmaia.com> wrote:
>
> I had a similar thought <G>.
> One for wingers.
>
> The real Falling Water:http://www.nationaltrust.org/npa200..._Penn_Fallin...
> --
Architect born bred and raised in Wisconsin
John
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