|
Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > July 2005 > do outlets have to be strictly serial in layout?
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
do outlets have to be strictly serial in layout?
|
|
| kzinNOSPAM99@yahoo.com 2005-07-16, 6:25 pm |
| Hello,
looking to add a couple of outlets for convenience (not
planning on significantly upping the loading on the circuit)
at the end of a run.
the way everything is structured it would be much easier to
just Tee the two off of the last outlet rather than run them
serially.
no other issues.
does this violate NEC? (can't imagine why it would but it
doesn't hurt to ask.)
thanks in advance
ml
| |
|
| Don't know what you mean by"serially" , however yes you can add outlets to a
general lighting circuit for the purpose you describe. In a residence you
need so many circuits per square foot, but the number of outlets you install
beyond those required by various sections of the code, is your business.
<kzinNOSPAM99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:r7SdnYEefoVdtETfRVn-1A@giganews.com...
quote:
> Hello,
>
> looking to add a couple of outlets for convenience (not
> planning on significantly upping the loading on the circuit)
> at the end of a run.
> the way everything is structured it would be much easier to
> just Tee the two off of the last outlet rather than run them
> serially.
> no other issues.
>
> does this violate NEC? (can't imagine why it would but it
> doesn't hurt to ask.)
>
> thanks in advance
> ml
| |
| kzinNOSPAM99@yahoo.com 2005-07-16, 6:25 pm |
|
On 16-Jul-2005, "RBM" <rbm2(remove this)@optonline.net>
wrote:
quote:
> Don't know what you mean by"serially" , however yes you
> can add outlets to a
> general lighting circuit for the purpose you describe. In
> a residence you
> need so many circuits per square foot, but the number of
> outlets you install
> beyond those required by various sections of the code, is
> your business.
not adding outlets to a lighting circuit as these are 20A
outlets and all my lighting is on 15A.
By strictly serially I mean that any one outlet in the
circuit feeds one and only one outlet, except for the last
of course.
What I want to do is have the outlet that is currently the
end of the run feed 2 more outlets, each of which would then
become an end of the run.
thanks
ml
| |
| Tony Hwang 2005-07-16, 6:25 pm |
| kzinNOSPAM99@yahoo.com wrote:
quote:
> On 16-Jul-2005, "RBM" <rbm2(remove this)@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> not adding outlets to a lighting circuit as these are 20A
> outlets and all my lighting is on 15A.
>
> By strictly serially I mean that any one outlet in the
> circuit feeds one and only one outlet, except for the last
> of course.
> What I want to do is have the outlet that is currently the
> end of the run feed 2 more outlets, each of which would then
> become an end of the run.
>
> thanks
> ml
Hi,
I don't think it matters as long as the circuit is not over loaded.
You don't have to run total load in a single line formation.
Tony
| |
|
|
<kzinNOSPAM99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:-dSdnXb8E4JfrUTfRVn-2A@giganews.com...
quote:
>
> On 16-Jul-2005, "RBM" <rbm2(remove this)@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> not adding outlets to a lighting circuit as these are 20A
> outlets and all my lighting is on 15A.
>
> By strictly serially I mean that any one outlet in the
> circuit feeds one and only one outlet, except for the last
> of course.
> What I want to do is have the outlet that is currently the
> end of the run feed 2 more outlets, each of which would then
> become an end of the run.
>
> thanks
> ml
There should be no problem with code providing the box is big enough for the
number of wires you are stuffing into it. There are limits to the number of
wires you can use. Boxes come in different Cu In sizes and there are
calculation tables for the number and size wires allowed.
I would not feed from the outlet, you should pigtail off of the branch
circuit itself. If you feed from the outlet and the outlet fails so does
everything else down the line.
CR
| |
|
| kzinNOSPAM99@yahoo.com wrote in news:r7SdnYEefoVdtETfRVn-1A@giganews.com:
quote:
> Hello,
>
> looking to add a couple of outlets for convenience (not
> planning on significantly upping the loading on the circuit)
> at the end of a run.
> the way everything is structured it would be much easier to
> just Tee the two off of the last outlet rather than run them
> serially.
> no other issues.
>
> does this violate NEC? (can't imagine why it would but it
> doesn't hurt to ask.)
>
> thanks in advance
> ml
The only issue with this I know of that you might run into and is
addressed by the NEC is box fill. That is, trying to jam too many wires
into a box. I saw in your other post that this a 20a circuit so you'll
need at least #12 wires. If you have a single 12/2 in, 2 12/2s out and a
device you'll need a box for (3 cables * 2 current carrying conductors
each) + 1 for grounds + 2 for the receptacle = 9 * 2.25 cu in/conductor =
20.25 cu in. If you happen to have a 4x4 box then you might be in good
shape or there are some extra deep single gang plastic boxes that big.
It's still going to be tight in any single gang box.
If you have some place to which you can pull the original feed back you
might consider putting a junction box there then branching off to your 3
locations from it.
Doug
| |
| Colbyt 2005-07-16, 6:25 pm |
|
<kzinNOSPAM99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:-dSdnXb8E4JfrUTfRVn-2A@giganews.com...
quote:
>
> On 16-Jul-2005, "RBM" <rbm2(remove this)@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> not adding outlets to a lighting circuit as these are 20A
> outlets and all my lighting is on 15A.
>
> By strictly serially I mean that any one outlet in the
> circuit feeds one and only one outlet, except for the last
> of course.
> What I want to do is have the outlet that is currently the
> end of the run feed 2 more outlets, each of which would then
> become an end of the run.
>
> thanks
> ml
The only potential code problem is the number of wires in the box. Each box
is rated for a certain number of wires. Most outlets use a 14 cubic inch
box that is rated for 6 #12 or 7 #14 wires. This is from an older book and I
don't have a box handy to check. I usually rely on the info printed on the
boxes. The cubic inches and wire capacity is printed on most plastic and
composite boxes.
If your box is an 18 cubic inch box and your circuit is 15 amp 14 gauge wire
you would be 100% legal with your 9 wires in the box.
All of that said, if it is a 15 amp circuit using #14 wire most likely you
will be fine with 9 wires in a box rated for 7. I have seen many more wires
than that on some older installations.
You will need to join all the wires inside the box and provide pigtails to
feed the existing outlet because putting 2 wires under one screw is a big no
no. The pigtails don't count as wires. Also makes it easier to change the
device in the future.
Colbyt
| |
| Doug Miller 2005-07-16, 6:25 pm |
| In article <Xns9695818C2E92noemail127001@207.69.189.191>, Doug <nothanks@127.0.0.1> wrote:
quote:
>kzinNOSPAM99@yahoo.com wrote in news:r7SdnYEefoVdtETfRVn-1A@giganews.com:
>
>
>The only issue with this I know of that you might run into and is
>addressed by the NEC is box fill. That is, trying to jam too many wires
>into a box. I saw in your other post that this a 20a circuit so you'll
>need at least #12 wires. If you have a single 12/2 in, 2 12/2s out and a
>device you'll need a box for (3 cables * 2 current carrying conductors
>each) + 1 for grounds + 2 for the receptacle = 9 * 2.25 cu in/conductor =
>20.25 cu in. If you happen to have a 4x4 box then you might be in good
>shape or there are some extra deep single gang plastic boxes that big.
>It's still going to be tight in any single gang box.
>
>If you have some place to which you can pull the original feed back you
>might consider putting a junction box there then branching off to your 3
>locations from it.
Or he could branch one line off from this outlet box to a junction box, and
branch two lines from the junction box to his new outlets.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| kzinNOSPAM99@yahoo.com 2005-07-16, 6:25 pm |
|
On 16-Jul-2005, "CR" <flattracker@harbornet.com> wrote:
quote:
> I would not feed from the outlet, you should pigtail off
> of the branch
> circuit itself. If you feed from the outlet and the outlet
> fails so does
> everything else down the line.
Thanks. This is actually what I'm doing. I just used the
language feeding from the outlet for clarity.
ml
| |
| George E. Cawthon 2005-07-16, 6:26 pm |
| kzinNOSPAM99@yahoo.com wrote:
quote:
> Hello,
>
> looking to add a couple of outlets for convenience (not
> planning on significantly upping the loading on the circuit)
> at the end of a run.
> the way everything is structured it would be much easier to
> just Tee the two off of the last outlet rather than run them
> serially.
> no other issues.
>
> does this violate NEC? (can't imagine why it would but it
> doesn't hurt to ask.)
>
> thanks in advance
> ml
Actually all outlets are wired parallel, i.e.
across the hot wire and the ground. The outlets
in any house I have been in are wired in a
continuous fashion by room or use, i.e., the wire
to the first outlet in a room goes to the first
outlet and then the wire continues on to the next
outlet, etc. Thus, each box (except for the last)
has an incoming romex and an outgoing romex.
Normally there is a different feed from the
breaker box to each room or specific function.
The idea is to keep the total wire length for a
single feed to the minimum, but you also keep the
number of wires to a minimum.
| |
| Terry 2005-07-16, 11:25 pm |
|
"George E. Cawthon" <GeorgeC-Boise@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:n7dCe.430176$cg1.349481@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...[vbcol=seagreen]
> kzinNOSPAM99@yahoo.com wrote:
Leaving aside the question of the number of wires in a box; there was no
difficulty understanding that term 'serially'.
Serial etc. means "One after another".
And that's exactly what the OP asked; could he run 'both' of the two new
extra outlets from the 'last outlet' of the existing run; or, did he have to
wire them 'one after another' (Or; to paraphrase, 'one from the other
................). Thought the use of the word serially was quite apt, in
this case.
OP was not suggesting to wire the outlets themselves 'in series' instead of
parallel!
Good replies; thank you.
|
|
|
|
|