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Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > July 2005 > A/C COSTS
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| I know his topic's been covered recently.
I guess that, at the time
we don't pay close attention if the topic doesn't apply.
My neighbor recently had his ( whole-house ) air conditioner replaced.
They arrived, removed the existing unit from the pad,
Set down the new unit, connected, charged, electrified and tested.
( I don't think they replaced the heat-exchanger in the furnace )
Neighbor told me it cost $4000
I got "sticker shock".......
????
<rj>
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| Greg O 2005-07-24, 9:10 pm |
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"<RJ>" <baranick@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:t7d5e1l63a5nvug4kjo5gmdj8d40ji2og0@4ax.com...
>I know his topic's been covered recently.
> I guess that, at the time
> we don't pay close attention if the topic doesn't apply.
>
> My neighbor recently had his ( whole-house ) air conditioner replaced.
> They arrived, removed the existing unit from the pad,
> Set down the new unit, connected, charged, electrified and tested.
> ( I don't think they replaced the heat-exchanger in the furnace )
>
> Neighbor told me it cost $4000
>
> I got "sticker shock".......
>
> ????
>
> <rj>
My guess would be that they replaced the indoor coil too for that price,
although it still seems a bit high to me. Also the SEER rating will affect
the price greatly. 10 SEER units are relatively cheap, 12 SEER is a few
hundred more. Jumping to 14-16 seer can easily double the price of the
equipment. If he bought a 16+ SEER unit it was cheap! Also labor rates vary
greatly from on area to another. Our rates are pretty low in this area. I
have seen rates in larger cities that are twice what we charge.
Greg
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| deans@wdeans.com 2005-07-24, 9:10 pm |
| Greetings,
Does your neighbor occupy a 400 sq foot converted garage or a 10,000 sq
foot mansion? Does the price include a 3 year service contract? Does
he live in Antarctica or Death Vally? Is the AC zoned, web enabled,
and controllable by text messages from his phone or does he have to
come outside and kick it from time to time? Does the church pay his
housing expenses and the installer his gay cousin he is always hitting
on or is he a man of impeccable moral character leaning towards a three
round bidding process? Depending on the answers $4000.00 is entirely
reasonable.
Hope this helps,
William
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"<RJ>" <baranick@localnet.com> wrote in message
> My neighbor recently had his ( whole-house ) air conditioner replaced.
> They arrived, removed the existing unit from the pad,
> Set down the new unit, connected, charged, electrified and tested.
> ( I don't think they replaced the heat-exchanger in the furnace )
>
> Neighbor told me it cost $4000
>
> I got "sticker shock".......
A 2 ton condenser and SEER 10 (Bryant) costs 1300 installed, in my area
(Midwest). A guys I know, who does it for a living, said he'd put in a
Goodman condenser of that size for a $1000 and still make money. No messing
with the coil, but it does include a system sniff and full installation.
This is pretty much the low end of the scale for size, efficiency and
sophistication. The price will go up from that.
I've done some digging on the net for prices of condensers and they are
available for about $600 in the 2 ton size. Not sure what one costs retail
locally.
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| HeatMan 2005-07-24, 9:11 pm |
| Several points.
"RichK" <me@isp.net> wrote in message
news:SfWdnQOa2N7BT3_fRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
>
> "<RJ>" <baranick@localnet.com> wrote in message
>
>
> A 2 ton condenser and SEER 10 (Bryant) costs 1300 installed, in my area
> (Midwest). A guys I know, who does it for a living, said he'd put in a
> Goodman condenser of that size for a $1000 and still make money.
Uh-huh...
> No messing
> with the coil, but it does include a system sniff and full installation.
>
If the evap coil is not replaced he didn't get SEER.
> This is pretty much the low end of the scale for size, efficiency and
> sophistication. The price will go up from that.
>
Right there.
> I've done some digging on the net for prices of condensers and they are
> available for about $600 in the 2 ton size. Not sure what one costs
retail
> locally.
>
That money buys a condenser. No installation, NO warranty (because the
manufacturers won't warrant an internet sale), no nothing.
You see these sites that tell you how easy it is. It truly ain't that hard,
but you have to drop a lot of money to do it right. it's better money spent
getting a licensed, trained pro to do the work. You'll get a warranty and
someone to blame....
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|
|
"HeatMan" <heatair@NOSPAM.yahoo.com>
>
> Uh-huh...
>
>
> If the evap coil is not replaced he didn't get SEER.
Please educate me - why not? Isn't the efficiency in the compressor mostly,
or even completely?
Rich
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| Stormin Mormon 2005-07-24, 9:11 pm |
| If they just replaced the outdoor unit, four grand sounds high.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"<RJ>" <baranick@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:t7d5e1l63a5nvug4kjo5gmdj8d40ji2og0@4ax.com...
I know his topic's been covered recently.
I guess that, at the time
we don't pay close attention if the topic doesn't apply.
My neighbor recently had his ( whole-house ) air conditioner replaced.
They arrived, removed the existing unit from the pad,
Set down the new unit, connected, charged, electrified and tested.
( I don't think they replaced the heat-exchanger in the furnace )
Neighbor told me it cost $4000
I got "sticker shock".......
????
<rj>
| |
| Stormin Mormon 2005-07-24, 9:11 pm |
| A dirty indoor coil is far less efficient. Also there are different types
and sizes of indoor coils. So.... a lot depends on having a proper size and
type of indoor coil.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"RichK" <me@isp.net> wrote in message
news:nqadnc2excc_bX_fRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> If the evap coil is not replaced he didn't get SEER.
Please educate me - why not? Isn't the efficiency in the compressor mostly,
or even completely?
Rich
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|
|
Sorry I couldn't be more specific.
As a HVAC "civilian", all I know about air conditioners is;
they sit on a pad outside, and cool the house.
The neighbors house is a "double-wide"
We live in Southern Arizona.
On 23 Jul 2005 15:04:53 -0700, "deans@wdeans.com" <William.Deans@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>Does your neighbor occupy a 400 sq foot converted garage or a 10,000 sq
>foot mansion? Does the price include a 3 year service contract? Does
>he live in Antarctica or Death Vally? Is the AC zoned, web enabled,
>and controllable by text messages from his phone or does he have to
>come outside and kick it from time to time? Does the church pay his
>housing expenses and the installer his gay cousin he is always hitting
>on or is he a man of impeccable moral character leaning towards a three
>round bidding process? Depending on the answers $4000.00 is entirely
>reasonable.
>
>Hope this helps,
>William
<rj>
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|
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RichK wrote:
> "HeatMan" <heatair@NOSPAM.yahoo.com>
>
>
>
>
> Please educate me - why not? Isn't the efficiency in the compressor mostly,
> or even completely?
Some compressors are more efficient than others, but this is only one of
very many parameters involved in producing higher SEER ratings. In a
nutshell the highest efficiency is produced by providing the greatest
mass flow of refrigerant for the least amount of input energy. Typically
this means increasing low side pressure and reducing high side pressure,
usually by increasing the coil sizes and/or air volume. IOW the main
object is to reduce the pressure differential across the compressor.
More efficient motors and more efficient compressors can typically bump
SEER up another couple of notches. There are still other tweaks besides
these that can be incorporated. Virtually every component of a low SEER
system has a more efficient alternative.
hvacrmedic
| |
| Richard J Kinch 2005-07-24, 9:11 pm |
| <RJ> writes:
> Neighbor told me it cost $4000
It is much easier to pay too much. The guys that overcharge are waiting
for your call. The guys that price fairly are all out busy working.
| |
| Stretch 2005-07-24, 9:11 pm |
| Please educate me - why not? Isn't the efficiency in the compressor
mostly,
or even completely?
Rich
No!
The efficiency is in a combination of ingredients. The compressor
contributes, but so does the amount of power consumed by the indoor
blower and outdoor fan motors. The indoor coil is one of two heat
exchangers, if it does not have the correct surface areas on both the
Freon and air sides, the efficiency will not be as high as it should.
Also, when you change just the outdoor unit, the refrigerant metering
device will not match the new outdoor unit, which is important. The
metering device is picked to work correctly with the exact match
between the indoor unit and outdoor unit. Then there is the indoor air
flow. It should be checked and verified to be around 400 CFM per ton.
This does not mean holding your hand over the grilles. It means using
accurate test instruments. If the air flow is low, the heat transfer
will not be there. Try driving your car with part of the radiator
blocked with cardboard all summer. (The engine may overheat) Finally,
the refrigerant charge has to be correct.
So there is a lot more involved than just changing the box that is
outside.
Stretch
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| HeatMan 2005-07-24, 9:11 pm |
|
"RichK" <me@isp.net> wrote in message
news:nqadnc2excc_bX_fRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>
> "HeatMan" <heatair@NOSPAM.yahoo.com>
>
>
area[color=darkred]
a[color=darkred]
installation.[color=darkred]
>
> Please educate me - why not? Isn't the efficiency in the compressor
mostly,
> or even completely?
>
Actually, some of the efficiency is in the compressor, but most of the
efficiency comes from the coil sizing, both evap and condenser.....
> Rich
>
>
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|
|
"HeatMan" <heatair@NOSPAM.yahoo.com>
> mostly, or even completely?
>
> Actually, some of the efficiency is in the compressor, but most of the
> efficiency comes from the coil sizing, both evap and condenser.....
Thanks to you, Stretch, and others, I'm starting to get the picture. Glad I
did not jump into it.
Is there any way to tell if my old coil is "much too small" to realize the
SEER 10. It easy to overpay and still not get it done right. This is why I
visit here a lot lately :-)
The guy offering to do the work, said I needed a new coil only if I went to
SEER 12 or higher. And with that, I'd need a bigger blower fan.
Rich
| |
| HeatMan 2005-07-24, 9:11 pm |
|
"RichK" <me@isp.net> wrote in message
news:ZqmdnXa_CaY8a37fRVn-ug@comcast.com...
>
> "HeatMan" <heatair@NOSPAM.yahoo.com>
>
>
>
> Thanks to you, Stretch, and others, I'm starting to get the picture. Glad
I
> did not jump into it.
>
> Is there any way to tell if my old coil is "much too small" to realize the
> SEER 10. It easy to overpay and still not get it done right. This is why
I
> visit here a lot lately :-)
>
> The guy offering to do the work, said I needed a new coil only if I went
to
> SEER 12 or higher.
Right. Is his company name is "Hacks-R-Us" or "Storming Moron Locksmith and
HVAC?"
> And with that, I'd need a bigger blower fan.
>
not always....
> Rich
>
>
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| Steve@carolinabreezehvac.com 2005-07-24, 9:12 pm |
|
"RichK" <me@isp.net> wrote in message
news:ZqmdnXa_CaY8a37fRVn-ug@comcast.com...
>
> "HeatMan" <heatair@NOSPAM.yahoo.com>
>
>
>
> Thanks to you, Stretch, and others, I'm starting to get the picture. Glad
I
> did not jump into it.
>
> Is there any way to tell if my old coil is "much too small" to realize the
> SEER 10. It easy to overpay and still not get it done right. This is why
I
> visit here a lot lately :-)
>
> The guy offering to do the work, said I needed a new coil only if I went
to
> SEER 12 or higher. And with that, I'd need a bigger blower fan.
No, not always.
if he also going to install a Thermal Expansion Valve? New Linesets?
Anything like that?
>
> Rich
>
>
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|
|
"Steve@carolinabreezehvac.com"
> to
>
> No, not always.
> if he also going to install a Thermal Expansion Valve? New Linesets?
> Anything like that?
No. None of the folks quoting it mentioned that. Will have to make another
round and ask more questions.
Rich
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| meirman 2005-07-25, 6:21 am |
| In alt.home.repair on Sun, 24 Jul 2005 02:04:49 GMT "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> posted:
>A dirty indoor coil is far less efficient.
This makes sense, but why then is it so hard to clean the A coil. I
can't clean mine afaik. Do they clean it with an annual service call?
Also there are different types
>and sizes of indoor coils. So.... a lot depends on having a proper size and
>type of indoor coil.
Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
| |
|
|
"meirman" <meirman@invalid.com> wrote in message
> This makes sense, but why then is it so hard to clean the A coil. I
> can't clean mine afaik. Do they clean it with an annual service call?
It probably depends on whether you're watching or not :-)
You have to ask what the service call includes. If the system is running
OK, it may not include much.
Rich
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| TURTLE 2005-07-25, 12:21 pm |
|
"deans@wdeans.com" <William.Deans@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122156293.501125.161000@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Greetings,
>
> Does your neighbor occupy a 400 sq foot converted garage or a 10,000 sq
> foot mansion? Does the price include a 3 year service contract? Does
> he live in Antarctica or Death Vally? Is the AC zoned, web enabled,
> and controllable by text messages from his phone or does he have to
> come outside and kick it from time to time? Does the church pay his
> housing expenses and the installer his gay cousin he is always hitting
> on or is he a man of impeccable moral character leaning towards a three
> round bidding process? Depending on the answers $4000.00 is entirely
> reasonable.
>
> Hope this helps,
> William
This is Turtle.
I and my company likes the way you think. I wished there was more of you.
TURTLE
| |
| TURTLE 2005-07-25, 1:21 pm |
|
"<RJ>" <baranick@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:t7d5e1l63a5nvug4kjo5gmdj8d40ji2og0@4ax.com...
>I know his topic's been covered recently.
> I guess that, at the time
> we don't pay close attention if the topic doesn't apply.
>
> My neighbor recently had his ( whole-house ) air conditioner replaced.
> They arrived, removed the existing unit from the pad,
> Set down the new unit, connected, charged, electrified and tested.
> ( I don't think they replaced the heat-exchanger in the furnace )
>
> Neighbor told me it cost $4000
>
> I got "sticker shock".......
>
> ????
>
> <rj>
This is Turtle.
The $4K seems stiff to me for just a residentiual condenser only and I do this
for a living. Now your sure it was not a 7.5 ton or a 10 ton condenser , for
I've did some at this cost.
TURTLE
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