Home Repair forum - Dealing with acrylic over oil paint?

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Dealing with acrylic over oil paint?

murmur

2005-07-31, 2:21 am

Hi,

I've purchased a house in which the previous owners have recently used
acrylic paint over oil paint. I say this because the acrylic paint can
be scraped off very easily (with a fingernail), and it appears to be oil
paint underneath.

I would like to repaint with a latex. Do I need to scrape off all the
acrylic, or can I use a primer over everything, then proceed with the
new paint job? (If so, which primer?). Any other advise would be
appreciated.

Thank you.

dadiOH

2005-07-31, 10:21 am

"murmur" <murmur@NOSPAMMnyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:tQYGe.4439$Ow4.1806830@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> Hi,
>
> I've purchased a house in which the previous owners have recently used
> acrylic paint over oil paint. I say this because the acrylic paint can
> be scraped off very easily (with a fingernail), and it appears to be
oil
> paint underneath.
>
> I would like to repaint with a latex. Do I need to scrape off all the
> acrylic, or can I use a primer over everything, then proceed with the
> new paint job? (If so, which primer?). Any other advise would be
> appreciated.

"Acrylic" paint *is* latex.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

murmur

2005-07-31, 11:21 am

dadiOH wrote:
>
>
> "murmur" <murmur@NOSPAMMnyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:tQYGe.4439$Ow4.1806830@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
>
> oil
>
>
>
> "Acrylic" paint *is* latex.
>
> --
> dadiOH

Yes, I'm aware of that. The question still stands: do I need to scrape
it all off, or is there a sealer which I can use over the
acrylic-over-oil combination which is currently there? I assume if I
just paint over the acrylic, it will not bond very well, as the acrylic
itself is not bonding well to the oil.

Todd H.

2005-07-31, 1:21 pm

"dadiOH" <dadiOH@wherever.com> writes:
> "murmur" <murmur@NOSPAMMnyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:tQYGe.4439$Ow4.1806830@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> oil
>
> "Acrylic" paint *is* latex.

His post never indicated anything otherwise. Ah, usenet. 8-)

To the OP, I googled "latex over oil-based" and came up with this
info among many others

http://www.dutchboy.com/faq/faq.asp...erior&answer=11
Can I apply latex paint over oil based paint?
Yes. Be sure to prepare the surface properly before
painting. Oil-based paints should be sanded to a flat finish
before painting. After rinsing, apply Dutch Boy. oil-based
primer and apply desired Dutch Boy. latex paint.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Ranieri

2005-07-31, 1:21 pm

"murmur" <murmur@NOSPAMMnyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Pk4He.4448$Ow4.1851970@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
>
> dadiOH wrote:
>
>
> Yes, I'm aware of that. The question still stands: do I need to scrape
> it all off, or is there a sealer which I can use over the
> acrylic-over-oil combination which is currently there? I assume if I
> just paint over the acrylic, it will not bond very well, as the acrylic
> itself is not bonding well to the oil.

There's nothing inherently wrong with painting acrylic/latex over a sound
oil-based finish. The problem is that some oil finishes are prone to
chalking and if the chalking wasn't cleaned off before it was painted, you
don't get a good bond and you get that intercoat flaking that you're seeing.
Solution would be to remove everything that's loose (scrape, sand, etc.),
scrub the surface, allow to dry, prime as needed and paint.

3rd eye

2005-07-31, 1:21 pm

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 04:54:49 GMT, murmur <murmur@NOSPAMMnyc.rr.com>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I've purchased a house in which the previous owners have recently used
>acrylic paint over oil paint. I say this because the acrylic paint can
>be scraped off very easily (with a fingernail), and it appears to be oil
>paint underneath.
>
>I would like to repaint with a latex. Do I need to scrape off all the
>acrylic,

Probably.

I assume you are talking about the trim right?

or can I use a primer over everything, then proceed with the
>new paint job? (If so, which primer?). Any other advise would be
>appreciated.
>
>Thank you.

Unlikely you'll find a primer that will penetrate & bond the unsound
layers together.

If, I'd assumed correctly that it is the trim, you _may_ be able to
remove it using masking tape.

3rd eye

2005-07-31, 1:21 pm

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 10:25:42 -0500, "Ranieri" <uh-uh> wrote:

>
>"murmur" <murmur@NOSPAMMnyc.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:Pk4He.4448$Ow4.1851970@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
>
>There's nothing inherently wrong with painting acrylic/latex over a sound
>oil-based finish. The problem is that some oil finishes are prone to
>chalking and if the chalking wasn't cleaned off before it was painted, you
>don't get a good bond and you get that intercoat flaking that you're seeing.
>Solution would be to remove everything that's loose (scrape, sand, etc.),
>scrub the surface, allow to dry, prime as needed and paint.
>

Chalking occurs outside.
I've never seen it indoors.

3rd eye

2005-07-31, 1:21 pm

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:28:19 GMT, "dadiOH" <dadiOH@wherever.com>
wrote:

>
>
>
>"murmur" <murmur@NOSPAMMnyc.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:tQYGe.4439$Ow4.1806830@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>oil
>
>"Acrylic" paint *is* latex.

Acrylic paint is _not_ latex.
It is acrylic.
Water based yes.
There is a diffenence.

I believe we've been over this before.

3rd eye

2005-07-31, 1:21 pm

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 04:54:49 GMT, murmur <murmur@NOSPAMMnyc.rr.com>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I've purchased a house in which the previous owners have recently used
>acrylic paint over oil paint. I say this because the acrylic paint can
>be scraped off very easily (with a fingernail), and it appears to be oil
>paint underneath.
>
>I would like to repaint with a latex. Do I need to scrape off all the
>acrylic, or can I use a primer over everything, then proceed with the
>new paint job? (If so, which primer?). Any other advise would be
>appreciated.
>
>Thank you.

This would be best answered by someone in a real paint store.

See if you can find one with a manager who has been in the business
for a long time.

Not some kid behind the counter.
I know this from experience- (I was one). <G>

John Willis

2005-07-31, 2:21 pm

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 04:54:49 GMT, murmur <murmur@NOSPAMMnyc.rr.com>
scribbled this interesting note:

>Hi,
>
>I've purchased a house in which the previous owners have recently used
>acrylic paint over oil paint. I say this because the acrylic paint can
>be scraped off very easily (with a fingernail), and it appears to be oil
>paint underneath.
>
>I would like to repaint with a latex. Do I need to scrape off all the
>acrylic, or can I use a primer over everything, then proceed with the
>new paint job? (If so, which primer?). Any other advise would be
>appreciated.
>
>Thank you.

The reason the existing paint is not bonded to the previous oil based
paint is improper prep work. Properly prepared, the combination you
describe will last a good, long while.

So far as I know, the only solution you will find is to remove the
flaking paint and properly prep the work to be painted.

I have to ask, what's wrong with an oil based paint on the wood work
in the home? Why not go back with a good, high quality oil based
paint?

--
John Willis
jdwillis12357@airmail.net
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

Martin

2005-07-31, 3:21 pm

"3rd eye" <3rdeye@inyourface.com> wrote in message
news:s8tpe11ucffj36nk35ig81qhb4bhg3ov9e@4ax.com...

> Acrylic paint is _not_ latex.
> It is acrylic.
> Water based yes.
> There is a diffenence.
>
> I believe we've been over this before.

Missed the explanation. What is the difference?

Roger Taylor

2005-07-31, 4:21 pm

> I've purchased a house in which the previous owners have recently used
> acrylic paint over oil paint. I say this because the acrylic paint can be
> scraped off very easily (with a fingernail), and it appears to be oil
> paint underneath.> I would like to repaint with a latex. Do I need to
> scrape off all the acrylic, or can I use a primer over everything, then
> proceed with the new paint job? (If so, which primer?). Any other advise
> would be appreciated.

No use just priming and painting, as this will have no effect on the bad
bond underneath, and your new paint will continue to flake off. Best
solution is the hardest - Use a wire brush, hand-held chisel, ice pick,
scraper, etc, and locate (there may be areas where the bond is ok) , then
scrape off loose acrylic paint using a combination of tools depending on
shape of trim or wall, then scrub and sand rough edges and exposed patches
of oil paint. Once this is roughed up, spot prime the exposed oil paint,
fill where necessary, reprime the dried filler, and repaint whole area using
acrylic or oil. I know it is a lot of effort, but likely the only way to
proceed to get a lasting paint job.

Ranieri

2005-07-31, 4:21 pm

"3rd eye" <3rdeye@inyourface.com> wrote in message
news:s5tpe1h2c6qem1afn4mukki8faf915tod0@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 10:25:42 -0500, "Ranieri" <uh-uh> wrote:
>
used[color=darkred]
can[color=darkred]
you[color=darkred]
seeing.[color=darkred]
>
> Chalking occurs outside.
> I've never seen it indoors.

Me neither. I wonder if he's talking interior or exterior.

Norminn

2005-07-31, 5:21 pm

dadiOH wrote:
>
>
> "murmur" <murmur@NOSPAMMnyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:tQYGe.4439$Ow4.1806830@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
>
> oil
>
>
>
> "Acrylic" paint *is* latex.

The reason I hate latex on trim and doors! I had the experience of
painting a neighbor's condo before we faced the situation in our own.
His old paint job was a nasty one, latex slopped on over food splatters
and fingerprints on old, hard enamel. I had no choice but to scrape,
pick and peel the latex because it could not be sanded. It came off in
large sheets from the doors.

When we did our own condo, thankfully only a vacation home for many
years so it had only one coat of paint in addition to the original, the
contractor said that if the latex was intact he would prime over it and
then paint. Hubby didn't want me peeling old paint for weeks and weeks,
so that is what we opted to do. We are old retired fuddy duddies, so
nobody is crashing into the woodwork and knocking the paint loose - the
latex wasn't chipped or dinged, so the primer and paint went on nice and
smoothe.

It is fine to use latex over oil if prepped and primed properly. I am a
fanatic about prepping, because I don't like to paint often.

murmur

2005-07-31, 5:21 pm

Ranieri wrote:
> "3rd eye" <3rdeye@inyourface.com> wrote in message
> news:s5tpe1h2c6qem1afn4mukki8faf915tod0@4ax.com...
>
>
> used
>
>
> can
>
>
> you
>
>
> seeing.
>
>
>
> Me neither. I wonder if he's talking interior or exterior.
>
>

sorry.....meant interior.

3rd eye

2005-07-31, 5:21 pm

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:51:22 -0400, "Martin" <nfn04028@naples.net>
wrote:

>
>"3rd eye" <3rdeye@inyourface.com> wrote in message
>news:s8tpe11ucffj36nk35ig81qhb4bhg3ov9e@4ax.com...
>
>
>Missed the explanation. What is the difference?
>
>
Honestly can't answer that question directly.
I don't know.

But a quick search found this.
http://www.pcimag.com/CDA/ArticleIn...,133180,00.html

It would appear I've been incorrect. Acrylic paints are latex.
But latex paint doesn't necessarily mean they are acrylic.

Martin

2005-07-31, 6:21 pm

"3rd eye" <3rdeye@inyourface.com> wrote in message
news:b4cqe11icn8gcqmqhp8kvpil9h9lsd2ub2@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:51:22 -0400, "Martin" <nfn04028@naples.net>
> wrote:
>
> Honestly can't answer that question directly.
> I don't know.
>
> But a quick search found this.
> http://www.pcimag.com/CDA/ArticleIn...,133180,00.html
>
> It would appear I've been incorrect. Acrylic paints are latex.
> But latex paint doesn't necessarily mean they are acrylic.
>

OK, now you are correct on both counts. "Latex paints" is used rather
loosely for different kinds of paints as your reference implies. The
original ones were based on styrene-butadiene latex, but that gave way to
the acrylics because of their better outdoor stability and general
durability.

Chuck B.

2005-07-31, 8:21 pm

dadiOH

2005-07-31, 11:21 pm

"3rd eye" <3rdeye@inyourface.com> wrote in message
news:b4cqe11icn8gcqmqhp8kvpil9h9lsd2ub2@4ax.com...

> It would appear I've been incorrect. Acrylic paints are latex.
> But latex paint doesn't necessarily mean they are acrylic.

Bingo.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

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