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Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > August 2005 > Age of Wiring based on materials used
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Age of Wiring based on materials used
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| I do handyman work in a large midwestern city.
I encounter a lot of older wiring that has been added to piecemeal,
over the years. Yesterday, I was working in a house that had been
built in 1911, or earlier, and originally had gas lighting. The wiring
was added later, in some cases with the J boxes attached directly to
the old gas piping.
I would welcome any information on the general ages of the wiring,
based on the type of materials used.
I would characterize some general types that I find, in this area, as
follows:
1) Indiviual wires strung on ceramic insulators, no conduit.
2) Fabric insulated wire (type V?) in black iron (steel?) pipe. These
conduits are generally 1/2" rigid pipe with the bends field bent into
the pipe, generally no fittings besides couplings and nuts at the
j-boxes. The nuts on the pipe threads are hex shaped.
3) Steel Armoured Cable (BX?) with fabric sleeving over fabric
insulated wire. Fittings are clunky, heavy castings. The nuts on the
pipe threads are hex shaped.
4) Steel Armoured Cable with paper sleeving over fabric insulated
wire. Fittings are somewhat lighter castings. Nuts on the pipe
threads are stamped steel squares with 4 notches in the corners.
5) Steel armoured cable with paper sleeving over plastic insulated
wire. Nuts on the pipe fittings are cup shaped steel with "star"
shape.
and what I would consider "modern" materials:
Steel and Aluminum AC with cast zinc fittings, and
EMT with cast zinc fittings.
Nonmetallic cable is not allowed in this area. BX is only allowed for
pull-in remodeling type use.
I'm not looking for a discussion of code here, but I would find it very
interesting to know what the approximate ages are of the various types
of materials that I find.
Thanks for any info you can provide.
Best, Jon
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| Duane Bozarth 2005-08-24, 5:21 pm |
| jon v wrote:
>
....
> I would welcome any information on the general ages of the wiring,
> based on the type of materials used.
....
There was an article in Fine Homebuilding within the last several that
has a timeline of some of these--the subject of the article was on
evaluating existing wiring for upgrading. I'm sure it would be
interesting given the question although it won't be complete it will
provide a basic starting point...
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| -------snipped-----------------
> Nonmetallic cable is not allowed in this area. BX is only allowed for
> pull-in remodeling type use.
NM not allowed for a single famly residence? What area are you located?
> I'm not looking for a discussion of code here, but I would find it very
> interesting to know what the approximate ages are of the various types
> of materials that I find.
>
> Thanks for any info you can provide.
>
> Best, Jon
>
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| Duane Bozarth 2005-08-24, 6:21 pm |
| SQLit wrote:
>
> -------snipped-----------------
>
> NM not allowed for a single famly residence? What area are you located?
According to TOH (altho a number of years ago and maybe different by
now) Chicago was one location during a renovation series they did
there...
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| There is an excellent book called "Old Electrical Wiring" by David Shapiro,
published by Mcgraw-Hill. It will answer any questions you have and any that
it doesn't answer, you can email David directly
"jon v" <jonvincent@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1124902982.920783.150650@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I do handyman work in a large midwestern city.
>
> I encounter a lot of older wiring that has been added to piecemeal,
> over the years. Yesterday, I was working in a house that had been
> built in 1911, or earlier, and originally had gas lighting. The wiring
> was added later, in some cases with the J boxes attached directly to
> the old gas piping.
>
> I would welcome any information on the general ages of the wiring,
> based on the type of materials used.
>
> I would characterize some general types that I find, in this area, as
> follows:
>
> 1) Indiviual wires strung on ceramic insulators, no conduit.
>
> 2) Fabric insulated wire (type V?) in black iron (steel?) pipe. These
> conduits are generally 1/2" rigid pipe with the bends field bent into
> the pipe, generally no fittings besides couplings and nuts at the
> j-boxes. The nuts on the pipe threads are hex shaped.
>
> 3) Steel Armoured Cable (BX?) with fabric sleeving over fabric
> insulated wire. Fittings are clunky, heavy castings. The nuts on the
> pipe threads are hex shaped.
>
> 4) Steel Armoured Cable with paper sleeving over fabric insulated
> wire. Fittings are somewhat lighter castings. Nuts on the pipe
> threads are stamped steel squares with 4 notches in the corners.
>
> 5) Steel armoured cable with paper sleeving over plastic insulated
> wire. Nuts on the pipe fittings are cup shaped steel with "star"
> shape.
>
>
> and what I would consider "modern" materials:
>
> Steel and Aluminum AC with cast zinc fittings, and
> EMT with cast zinc fittings.
>
> Nonmetallic cable is not allowed in this area. BX is only allowed for
> pull-in remodeling type use.
>
> I'm not looking for a discussion of code here, but I would find it very
> interesting to know what the approximate ages are of the various types
> of materials that I find.
>
> Thanks for any info you can provide.
>
> Best, Jon
>
| |
| Duane Bozarth 2005-08-25, 10:21 am |
| Duane Bozarth wrote:
>
> jon v wrote:
> ...
> ...
>
> There was an article in Fine Homebuilding within the last several that
> has a timeline of some of these--the subject of the article was on
> evaluating existing wiring for upgrading. I'm sure it would be
> interesting given the question although it won't be complete it will
> provide a basic starting point...
BTW, that was No. 169 March or April this year...
| |
| John Hines 2005-08-25, 1:21 pm |
| Duane Bozarth <dpbozarth@swko.dot.net> wrote:
>SQLit wrote:
>
>According to TOH (altho a number of years ago and maybe different by
>now) Chicago was one location during a renovation series they did
>there...
And some of the suburbs (like mine) have the same restriction. No
non-metallic wiring.
It isn't hard to deal with, when you've been doing it all your life.
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| Thanks for your responses.
Chicago, Ill is correct. I believe NM is only allowed in sheds and
outbuilding, and has to be exposed. But I am no electrician.
I will look for the publications cited. Thanks!
Little things sure make a big difference. How those electricians 60
years ago ever tightened those hex nuts inside a handy box is beyond
me. I resort to replacing them with the star shaped nuts that respond
to hammer and screwdriver tightening. Good thing that pipe threads are
still the same!
Best, Jon
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"jon v" <jonvincent@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1124998253.667723.286620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for your responses.
>
> Chicago, Ill is correct. I believe NM is only allowed in sheds and
> outbuilding, and has to be exposed. But I am no electrician.
>
> I will look for the publications cited. Thanks!
>
> Little things sure make a big difference. How those electricians 60
> years ago ever tightened those hex nuts inside a handy box is beyond
> me. I resort to replacing them with the star shaped nuts that respond
> to hammer and screwdriver tightening. Good thing that pipe threads are
> still the same!
>
> Best, Jon
Good ole Chicago... No wonder there are very few single family, single story
dwelling in the parts of Chicago that I remember.
I had to find this link
http://www.codecheck.com/wiring_history.htm
There was a special pair of pliers ( lack of a better word ) that was used
on the star washers. I have seen them but I never owned a pair. Water pump
pliers/channel locks will work if they are small enough.
| |
| Calvin Henry-Cotnam 2005-08-28, 12:21 am |
| Duane Bozarth (dpbozarth@swko.dot.net) said...
>
>SQLit wrote:
>
>According to TOH (altho a number of years ago and maybe different by
>now) Chicago was one location during a renovation series they did
>there...
I beleive that much of the NYC area requires BX as well. A year ago,
I visited some relatives in Brooklyn and they needed to add a circuit
for a clothes dryer. All the home runs out of the breaker panel were BX.
The material they picked up included #14 BX to go with the 30A breaker,
which of course is wrong, thanks to the BORG associate that served them.
We went on a run to the local BORG to get the right amount of #10 and
I was surprized to see that most, if not all, of the wiring sold there
was all BX! (I don't recall actually seeing Romex there)
--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence."
- Napoleon
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"Calvin Henry-Cotnam" <calvin@remove.daxack.ca.invalid> wrote in message
news:HU9Qe.125$hW.123@tor-nn1...
> Duane Bozarth (dpbozarth@swko.dot.net) said...
for[color=darkred]
located?[color=darkred]
>
> I beleive that much of the NYC area requires BX as well. A year ago,
> I visited some relatives in Brooklyn and they needed to add a circuit
> for a clothes dryer. All the home runs out of the breaker panel were BX.
>
> The material they picked up included #14 BX to go with the 30A breaker,
> which of course is wrong, thanks to the BORG associate that served them.
> We went on a run to the local BORG to get the right amount of #10 and
> I was surprized to see that most, if not all, of the wiring sold there
> was all BX! (I don't recall actually seeing Romex there)
I have never been to NYC except to visit Kennedy airport, just passing
through.
Again, I will say the same thing about the Chicago orginal post.
Not to many single story single family homes. Right?
I would also guess that Boston would be the same. Any place with
multi-family and multi story would be the same.
What is a BORG?
It would appear my experiences in the western US are a tad different than
the eastern big cities.
| |
| John Hines 2005-08-28, 3:22 pm |
| "SQLit" <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote:
>
>"Calvin Henry-Cotnam" <calvin@remove.daxack.ca.invalid> wrote in message
>news:HU9Qe.125$hW.123@tor-nn1...
>for
>located?
>
>I have never been to NYC except to visit Kennedy airport, just passing
>through.
>Again, I will say the same thing about the Chicago orginal post.
>Not to many single story single family homes. Right?
No, there are single family homes in Chicago. A lot of the collar
villages have the same restrictions. I do, and I'm 21 miles west of
downtown Chicago.
Lots of single family homes in that area.
>I would also guess that Boston would be the same. Any place with
>multi-family and multi story would be the same.
AFAIK, anything multistory has to be metallic wiring. NM is really only
for residential use.
>What is a BORG?
Slang for Home Depo, due to their boxy stores, monochrome colors, and a
Star Trek TNG reference.
>It would appear my experiences in the western US are a tad different than
>the eastern big cities.
Do you have any chain stores selling building supplies from big boxy
stores?
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"John Hines" <jbhines@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:8et3h1lag41esi8fnllve7lpd734edal7i@4ax.com...
> "SQLit" <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote:
>
BX.[color=darkred]
them.[color=darkred]
>
> No, there are single family homes in Chicago. A lot of the collar
> villages have the same restrictions. I do, and I'm 21 miles west of
> downtown Chicago.
>
> Lots of single family homes in that area.
>
>
> AFAIK, anything multistory has to be metallic wiring. NM is really only
> for residential use.
>
>
> Slang for Home Depo, due to their boxy stores, monochrome colors, and a
> Star Trek TNG reference.
>
>
> Do you have any chain stores selling building supplies from big boxy
> stores?
Yes but I do not usually purchase from them. Since I have the ability to
purchase from electrical wholesalers.
| |
| Calvin Henry-Cotnam 2005-08-30, 7:21 pm |
| SQLit (sqlit@qwest.net) said...
>
>What is a BORG?
Big Orange Retail Giant.
--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence."
- Napoleon
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NOTE: if replying by email, remove "remove." and ".invalid"
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