Home Repair forum - Checking prices for American Standard Central Air

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Checking prices for American Standard Central Air

Carlos

2005-08-28, 2:21 pm

Hi All,

I would like to know if any of you can provide me with some prices of a
split system (AC + gas furnace), this includes anything else that needs
to be installed besides the furnace and compressor such as the coil. I
am insterested in American Standard prices (I can't find them
anywhere). For the AC unit, it will be a 3.5 ton 14 SEER + proper coil
for that unit. For the furnace it will be a 80,000 BTU 2 stage furnace,
82% efficient. I don't know the exact models, if there are different
American Standard models for those specs I would like the different
prices.
The other prices that I would be interested is the same spec above(3.5
ton 14SEER on the AC) but with variable speed, American Standard as
well.

I would highly appreciate any information you guys can provide. Please,
I am just interested in prices. I already went thru a thread finding
the right contractor, sizing, importance of proper installation etc
etc.

Carlos

SQLit

2005-08-28, 2:21 pm

TURTLE

2005-08-28, 3:22 pm

"Carlos" <paldama@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125247366.711445.24910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I would like to know if any of you can provide me with some prices of a
> split system (AC + gas furnace), this includes anything else that needs
> to be installed besides the furnace and compressor such as the coil. I
> am insterested in American Standard prices (I can't find them
> anywhere). For the AC unit, it will be a 3.5 ton 14 SEER + proper coil
> for that unit. For the furnace it will be a 80,000 BTU 2 stage furnace,
> 82% efficient. I don't know the exact models, if there are different
> American Standard models for those specs I would like the different
> prices.
> The other prices that I would be interested is the same spec above(3.5
> ton 14SEER on the AC) but with variable speed, American Standard as
> well.
>
> I would highly appreciate any information you guys can provide. Please,
> I am just interested in prices. I already went thru a thread finding
> the right contractor, sizing, importance of proper installation etc
> etc.
>
> Carlos

This is Turtle.

Carlos , i hate to say this but your going to walk off into a pit of snakes and
start telling the snakes if they can bite you or not. With this said i will talk
below.

i can tell you the price of any brand equipment and if i would give you each
cost of your 14 seer units you want and have it in great detail. Then you start
getting bids to do the job from contractors in the area and start telling them
what they pay for the equipment. Then this first cuts out all the Good
respectiable contractor to do your job. The hacks and crook will only be left to
talk to you about putting in the system. This may seem strange for you to catch
on to but I've seen it time and time again and a customer taken to the cleaners.
The quickest way to run a good professional HVAC contractor off is start
discussing what he pays for the equipment. The HVAC contractor knowes that the
p\rice of the equipmenmt plays a very little part in a good running hvac system.
Here is a example below for you to see.

Good Contractor: Equipment cost $2,800.00 + $1,500.00 Ductwork and tubing sets.
if you do it right it will be at least $1,000.00 of ductwork and duct supplies.

Cheap Bidder Contractor : Equipment $2,200.00 because the model numbers will
not match up for a 14 seer rating + $600.00 Ductwork and tubing sets. If he can
use all 6" Duct work and use Y's for all runs, too small or second hand tubing
sets, Don't Vacuum the system, Buy the equipment from a bankruptsey sales at a
warehouse, use a bunch of second hand small stuff to do the job with, and last
when you pay him for the job --- he is gone and never will come back for
warranty the work for a year like he should have.

If a fellow told me he could probley do a job for me for $100.00 and might be
alright. then another fellow told me that he would do that same job for
$1,000.00 and garrenty the job in writting and have a bonding company to stand
good for the work. i would pay the $1,000.00 to make sure it was done right.

TURTLE

Joseph Meehan

2005-08-28, 3:22 pm

Carlos wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I would like to know if any of you can provide me with some prices of
> a split system (AC + gas furnace), this includes anything else that
> needs to be installed besides the furnace and compressor such as the
> coil. I am insterested in American Standard prices (I can't find them
> anywhere). For the AC unit, it will be a 3.5 ton 14 SEER + proper
> coil for that unit. For the furnace it will be a 80,000 BTU 2 stage
> furnace, 82% efficient. I don't know the exact models, if there are
> different American Standard models for those specs I would like the
> different prices.
> The other prices that I would be interested is the same spec above(3.5
> ton 14SEER on the AC) but with variable speed, American Standard as
> well.
>
> I would highly appreciate any information you guys can provide.
> Please, I am just interested in prices. I already went thru a thread
> finding the right contractor, sizing, importance of proper
> installation etc etc.
>
> Carlos

In short, find the contractor not the equipment. A properly installed
OK unit will be far better and cheaper in the long run than the best unit
ever made installed by someone who does not do it right.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2005-08-28, 3:23 pm

"Carlos" <paldama@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I would like to know if any of you can provide me with some prices...
> For the AC unit, it will be a 3.5 ton 14 SEER...

How about 8 5340 Btu/h $69 Daewoo window ACs with a 20.4 effective EER
with extremely high system reliability and no installer attitudes? :-)

> For the furnace it will be a 80,000 BTU 2 stage furnace, 82% efficient.

Perhaps you need more airsealing and a sunspace with no fuel bill.

Nick

Carlos

2005-08-28, 5:21 pm

Thanks to Turtle for his input, the only one that came up with some
numbers. All I am asking for is for some prices, is that so hard to get
in this forums without people questioning why I am asking for
it??...let me decide what is relevant to me (as a consumer). I already
found a very reputable contractor that would do the job anyways, I
already got a quote for the whole job and I know he will do a good job.
All I am getting is sarcasm here.

Carlos

HeatMan

2005-08-28, 5:21 pm

"Carlos" <paldama@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125257423.607576.25550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks to Turtle for his input, the only one that came up with some
> numbers. All I am asking for is for some prices, is that so hard to get
> in this forums without people questioning why I am asking for
> it??...let me decide what is relevant to me (as a consumer). I already
> found a very reputable contractor that would do the job anyways, I
> already got a quote for the whole job and I know he will do a good job.
> All I am getting is sarcasm here.
>

The sarcasm is intended to make you realize that you may be in the middle of
nowhere and we give you pricing from where we live, in the middle of the
highest cost of living area in the country.

Different areas have different pricing. My pricing on American Standard
equipment will probably not be the same as a contractor 2500 miles away.

Turtle gave you some numbers that may not be right for your area. $4300.00
is a low-ball price in this area. Something like what you're talking about
would buy the equipment, but not much else, including labor....

Joseph Meehan

2005-08-28, 8:21 pm

Carlos wrote:
> Thanks to Turtle for his input, the only one that came up with some
> numbers. All I am asking for is for some prices, is that so hard to
> get in this forums without people questioning why I am asking for
> it??...let me decide what is relevant to me (as a consumer). I
> already found a very reputable contractor that would do the job
> anyways, I already got a quote for the whole job and I know he will
> do a good job. All I am getting is sarcasm here.
>
> Carlos

I don't think anyone is trying to be sarcastic. However we see quite a
few people who just don't get it. They don't see the importance of the tech
person when it comes to the job. When someone writes it is not easy to tell
if they understand that part or not. The responses you saw were honest
efforts to get the point across. Maybe in your case it was not needed, but
we could not know that.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Carlos

2005-08-28, 8:21 pm

Joseph, as I mentioned on my original message

"I would highly appreciate any information you guys can provide.
Please,
I am just interested in prices. I already went thru a thread finding
the right contractor, sizing, importance of proper installation etc
etc."

I do know that picking the right contractor is very very important. I
would just like to know what those equipment run for in the Southern
California are.

SQLit

2005-08-28, 9:21 pm

"Carlos" <paldama@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125268826.561560.142900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Joseph, as I mentioned on my original message
>
> "I would highly appreciate any information you guys can provide.
> Please,
> I am just interested in prices. I already went thru a thread finding
> the right contractor, sizing, importance of proper installation etc
> etc."
>
> I do know that picking the right contractor is very very important. I
> would just like to know what those equipment run for in the Southern
> California are.

Raw material costs could vary 20% from contractor to contractor. It really
depends on who is buying the equipment and how much their discount schedule
is. Most OEM's discount schedules range from 5 to 50% depending on the
equipment and incentives at the time of purchase.
Asking blind questions about pricing is misleading. Southern CA covers a
lot of territory. I would expect to pay more in San Diego that Yuma. Both
are in Southern California. San Diego is higher overhead compared to Yuma.
I was not trying to be sarcastic with you. I was pointing out that your
question was vague.

Just what are you going to do when you find the pricing in your area? Beat
up your contractor cause you think he is making to much? Worse your going
to beat yourself up cause you think he is making to much money.
There are things that are best left unknown.

Joseph Meehan

2005-08-28, 10:21 pm

Carlos wrote:
> Joseph, as I mentioned on my original message
>
> "I would highly appreciate any information you guys can provide.
> Please,
> I am just interested in prices. I already went thru a thread finding
> the right contractor, sizing, importance of proper installation etc
> etc."
>
> I do know that picking the right contractor is very very important. I
> would just like to know what those equipment run for in the Southern
> California are.

I don't know about everyone, but I missed the part about your already
reading the threads on picking a contractor. Sorry.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Stretch

2005-08-29, 2:21 am

Carlos,

I live in South Carolina. To sell you the equipment, make the
necessary duct modifications, flue and gas line modifications, wiring,
new pad, new thermostat, load calculation for proper sizing, air flow
testing and balancing and all the other stuff I do for a complete job,
assuming it would fit (without seeing your house), I would guess $8,000
to $10,000. That price would probably cover my XXX and yours. If you
have extreme duct problems, it could be more. If it was an easy jub,
it could be less. The overall price range could cover $4,500.00 to
$12,000.00. I never quote without seeing the job, measuring lots of
stuff including checking the existing air flow with accurate
instruments and getting a load calculation done by me or the local
utility. There is lots of stuff involved, and prices vary widly from
job to job. As Nick says, if you want it cheap, get window units. If
you want central system, prices can be much more. Nick talks about 20
EER. You won't find a window unit that efficient. The savings is in
only cooling part of the house instead of the whole thing. But if you
live in a high humidity area, if you don't get the humidity out of the
whole structure, you could grow mold on the walls. If you lived in
Philadelphia like Nick, that would not be a problem. In southern CA,
well it depends on your local weather conditions.

Stretch

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2005-08-29, 8:21 am

Stretch <sixfoot7@sccoast.net> wrote:

>...Nick talks about 20 EER. You won't find a window unit that efficient.
>The savings is in only cooling part of the house instead of the whole thing.

Roughly doubling the 10 EER, with automatic occupancy controls...

>But if you live in a high humidity area, if you don't get the humidity out
>of the whole structure, you could grow mold on the walls.

I think of that as a wintertime problem, if only part of a house is heated
and warm moist air leaks into a cold room. If some humid outdoor air leaks
into a room with no active AC in summertime, with some air leakage to other
rooms, that seems OK, altho whole-house airsealing is always a good idea.

Nick

Stretch

2005-08-29, 9:21 am

Nick, You think of that as a winter problem, vecause where you live, it
can be. Not everyonew lives where you do or has the same climate
conditions. I lived in western Pennsylvania for 30 years. When I
moved to South Carolina, I had to relearn my trade as the climate and
problems are completely different. In South Carolina, mold is
primarily a summer problem. While I went through a 1 year non-compete,
I had to work 70 miles from home in Florence South Carolina. Things
were very different. Think Globally. What you or I are used to may
not match his problems/conditions. Therefore our advice may not do him
any good.

Stretch

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2005-08-29, 9:21 am

Stretch <sixfoot7@sccoast.net> wrote:

>Think Globally...

Think physics :-)

Nick

Carlos

2005-08-29, 4:21 pm

Thanks Stretch for some of the figures.

15 Messages after and no straight answer to my question:

American Standard Split system:
AC unit, 3.5 ton 14 SEER + proper coil
Furnace 80,000 BTU 2 stage, 82% efficient."

I am also interested in the
Furnace 80,000 BTU Variable speed furnace, 82% efficient."

Location: (Whittier, CA)

Carlos

Dr. Hardcrab

2005-08-30, 6:21 am

"Carlos" <paldama@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125341072.245526.25450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks Stretch for some of the figures.
>
> 15 Messages after and no straight answer to my question:
>
> American Standard Split system:
> AC unit, 3.5 ton 14 SEER + proper coil
> Furnace 80,000 BTU 2 stage, 82% efficient."
>
> I am also interested in the
> Furnace 80,000 BTU Variable speed furnace, 82% efficient."
>
> Location: (Whittier, CA)

Carlos,

It doesn't matter what anyone tells you here unless they live in your
neighbohood. I could give you a price of $4200, but then someone else might
give you $6,000 and another may give you even higher. It all depends on the
area you live in. True, there are companies out there that look at the house
you live in and the car you drive and may jack up the price, but most are
priced to stay in business. O.K., let's say you find the equipment on line
(good luck!) for $3200. "My GOD! They are charging a thousand dollars for
labor!!!"
You have to realized there is lot involved in running a business (salaries,
insurance, gas, etc. I could list a lot more). People start yelling "Rip
Off!" but don't realize that it's like that whereever you go. Food,
clothing, you name it. Don't even get me started with cars!!! Everyone doing
this "Employee Price" gimmick. Yeah, right. I have relatives that work for
GM. NOBODY is getting cars/trucks at what they are getting them for. It's
just a sales gimmick. Just like ones that sell them "1% above invoice!!!".
Gimme a break.
If every piece of equipment or goods were given to the general public at
cost, then that would put the "middle man" out of business. But then where
would that leave you? Who is going to install it (properly, mind you)? And
when someone DOES install it improperly and it dies within a year or two,
who is going to fix it?
I understand why people would like to know what equipment costs, but
truthfully (and no offense) it's none of your damn business. Try calling one
of the major car manufacturers and ask them the cost on a certain vehicle.
Call a restaurant and ask them the cost of that dinner you paid 30 bucks for
last night.

and it's not like you see these HVAC guys running around in Hummers and
Escalades and living in mansions....

The best thing to do is ask your friends and neighbor who they would use and
then get at LEAST 3 companies to give you QUOTES (not estimates) and go
from there.

Carlos

2005-08-30, 5:21 pm

The "None of your business attitude" seems to run in the blood of all
the HVAC people here. Last time I went to my mechanic I got a breakdown
of labor plus parts, there is nothing wrong with paying more for the
work done by a more professional and reputable company, you get what
you paid for. I guess, I am not going to get an answer to a very simple
question in this forum since only HVAC people seem to visit my thread.

Carolina Breeze HVAC

2005-08-31, 1:21 am

"Carlos" <paldama@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125429407.960539.273180@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The "None of your business attitude" seems to run in the blood of all
> the HVAC people here. Last time I went to my mechanic I got a breakdown
> of labor plus parts, there is nothing wrong with paying more for the
> work done by a more professional and reputable company, you get what
> you paid for. I guess, I am not going to get an answer to a very simple
> question in this forum since only HVAC people seem to visit my thread.
>

Perhaps, but ALL our tickets break down the prices, but what we pay for the
parts, honestly isnt any of your business.
A tech across town might pay up to 3X the price we pay, and vice versa.
You dont know who is getting what for what, since each and every parts house
is on a different schedule.
Hell, I have paid $10 for a part at one store, only to find it at another
for $30.

The answer to your question is actually simple.

There is about 4 different wholesale prices for every single unit out there.
There are hundreds of different labor rates.

Dr. Hardcrab

2005-08-31, 8:21 am

"Carlos" <paldama@hotmail.com> wrote

> The "None of your business attitude" seems to run in the blood of all
> the HVAC people here. Last time I went to my mechanic I got a breakdown
> of labor plus parts, there is nothing wrong with paying more for the
> work done by a more professional and reputable company, you get what
> you paid for. I guess, I am not going to get an answer to a very simple
> question in this forum since only HVAC people seem to visit my thread.

I guarantee that the price of the "parts" are not the price he pays for
them.

But, I see your point. We DO break it down on service calls (parts, labor),
but on install jobs, one, bottom line price is given.

Prometheus

2005-08-31, 10:21 pm

On 28 Aug 2005 12:30:23 -0700, "Carlos" <paldama@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Thanks to Turtle for his input, the only one that came up with some
>numbers. All I am asking for is for some prices, is that so hard to get
>in this forums without people questioning why I am asking for
>it??...let me decide what is relevant to me (as a consumer). I already
>found a very reputable contractor that would do the job anyways, I
>already got a quote for the whole job and I know he will do a good job.
>All I am getting is sarcasm here.
>
>Carlos

Carlos,

It's tough for anyone but an HVAC person to get those numbers. You
can ask your contractor, but good luck even getting a wholesaler to
give you a quote on the phone if you don't have an established
contractor's account with them. My wife used to work for a
plumbing/HVAC supplier, and they set that policy because not all
contractors get the same prices- it depends on volume and their track
record when it comes to paying the bill, as well as a few intangibles
such as ability to schmooze and general manners. She was not allowed
to tell members of the general public what the list price on any given
product was.

So ulitmately, any number you get here will mean nothing- the
contractor you hire may have a better or worse standing with their
wholesaler. You can ask the contractor for a copy of the bill from
the wholesaler, but you're risking really ticking them off.

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