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Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > August 2005 > Replacing roof - do I need "ice and water shied" ?
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Replacing roof - do I need "ice and water shied" ?
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| Hi,
I live in Toronto Canada and now I consider replacing roof. Pitch on the
roof is 9/12. Question is - do I need "Ice and water shield"? They usually
put it for eave protection around edges of the roof. I understood it is a
self adheasive thick felt paper. Can instead "Ice and water shield" be used
just 25 lb base sheet ? I was told that by Building code it is required just
for pitches 7/12 and lower, but still most of quotes I god included this.
Thank you
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| ameijers 2005-08-28, 10:21 pm |
|
"ttt" <ttt@Spamers.com> wrote in message
news:4JednaXjVqF4yI_eRVn-jQ@rogers.com...
> Hi,
>
> I live in Toronto Canada and now I consider replacing roof. Pitch on the
> roof is 9/12. Question is - do I need "Ice and water shield"? They usually
> put it for eave protection around edges of the roof. I understood it is a
> self adheasive thick felt paper. Can instead "Ice and water shield" be
used
> just 25 lb base sheet ? I was told that by Building code it is required
just
> for pitches 7/12 and lower, but still most of quotes I god included this.
>
Belt and suspenders, especially in the great frozen north. The steep pitch
mitigates the problem, but unless you have zero overhang, the eaves will
show a temperature differential, especially on sunny days when (part of) the
roof has a snow load. Your new roof is several k$ minimum. IMHO, a couple
hundred for the ice membrane is real cheap insurance. BTW, the stuff I have
seen looks more like rubber roof membrane than felt. Once it is down, it is
down- you have to pay attention laying it out, and holding it straight as
you pull the paper out from underneath.
aem sends...
| |
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| Don't cheapen out, with the wild weather and extremes that we have in the
T.O. area, it is worth every dollar. It is not self adhesive felt paper, it
a self adhesive rubberized plastic material. It had it used each side of
valleys, along eaves, gable ends and even under the ridge caps. Our weather
will find any opening to get through, particularly with the freeze/thaw
cycles and after freezing, rain especially when it freezing rains over snow.
Roofers want to use it to avoid callbacks for leaks in winter.
"ameijers" <aemeijers@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:setQe.251$ym5.6@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "ttt" <ttt@Spamers.com> wrote in message
> news:4JednaXjVqF4yI_eRVn-jQ@rogers.com...
usually[color=darkred]
a[color=darkred]
> used
> just
this.[color=darkred]
> Belt and suspenders, especially in the great frozen north. The steep
pitch
> mitigates the problem, but unless you have zero overhang, the eaves will
> show a temperature differential, especially on sunny days when (part of)
the
> roof has a snow load. Your new roof is several k$ minimum. IMHO, a couple
> hundred for the ice membrane is real cheap insurance. BTW, the stuff I
have
> seen looks more like rubber roof membrane than felt. Once it is down, it
is
> down- you have to pay attention laying it out, and holding it straight as
> you pull the paper out from underneath.
>
> aem sends...
>
| |
| bynnie 2005-08-28, 11:21 pm |
| ttt wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I live in Toronto Canada and now I consider replacing roof. Pitch on the
> roof is 9/12. Question is - do I need "Ice and water shield"? They usually
> put it for eave protection around edges of the roof. I understood it is a
> self adheasive thick felt paper. Can instead "Ice and water shield" be used
> just 25 lb base sheet ? I was told that by Building code it is required just
> for pitches 7/12 and lower, but still most of quotes I god included this.
>
> Thank you
Hi,
In regards to your question about water & ice shield,
I am a contractor in New England, where the winters are pretty
rough. (probably not as tough as Winters in Canada.
Anyways, "Ice & Water Shield" is much more than a self stick felt
paper. It is a 1/16 - 3/32 " layer of what is technically known as
Bichothane.(Spelling might not be 100%) Anyways, this material is an
excellent way of preventing ICE DAMS. Ice dams are when the Melting ice
turns to water and rolls down your roof & collects at the eves and then
refreezes,which causes a dam to form which in turn causes more melting
water to back up the roof under the shingles.Once it backs up about
10-12 " UNDER the shingles it may leak into the roof structure through
the nail holes.
The thing about Bichothane is that when a nail penetrates it, it is
self-healing and seals around the nail,resulting in a water proof
attachment.
It is an inexpensive "insurance" against common leaks.
If you really wanted a leakproof roof, you could put "water & ice "
shield all the way up to the peak of the roof. Not too many people do
this because the cost of the material alone is about $.40 a square
foot. But it is common to put this membrane along the eves because that
is where the water collects and refreezes in the winter.
Also another common place to put water and ice shield is in the
vallies on the roof. This is because water can collect in the winter
and refreeze at these points also, and depending on how your roofer
lays the shingles in the valley, more leaks tend to occur in sa valley
that is cut in place rather than "WEAVED". (a good roofer will WEAVE
his vallies)
All being said, the cost to you should only be about $1.50 - $2.00 U.S.
per lineal foot of roof per side,and per lineal foot of run for the
vallies.
I really can't see trying to save a couple of hundred dollars to
skip on the assurance warer and ice gives you against the costly
repairs that may happen such as rot in your walls, roof sheathing,
ruined sheet-rock etc.
I hope this may give you some insight to the realities of using the
water and ice sheild.
(An excellent brand of water and ice shield is GRACE, it is the only
one I personally use.)
| |
| bynnie 2005-08-28, 11:21 pm |
| ttt wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I live in Toronto Canada and now I consider replacing roof. Pitch on the
> roof is 9/12. Question is - do I need "Ice and water shield"? They usually
> put it for eave protection around edges of the roof. I understood it is a
> self adheasive thick felt paper. Can instead "Ice and water shield" be used
> just 25 lb base sheet ? I was told that by Building code it is required just
> for pitches 7/12 and lower, but still most of quotes I god included this.
>
> Thank you
Hi,
In regards to your question about water & ice shield,
I am a contractor in New England, where the winters are pretty
rough. (probably not as tough as Winters in Canada.
Anyways, "Ice & Water Shield" is much more than a self stick felt
paper. It is a 1/16 - 3/32 " layer of what is technically known as
Bichothane.(Spelling might not be 100%) Anyways, this material is an
excellent way of preventing ICE DAMS. Ice dams are when the Melting ice
turns to water and rolls down your roof & collects at the eves and then
refreezes,which causes a dam to form which in turn causes more melting
water to back up the roof under the shingles.Once it backs up about
10-12 " UNDER the shingles it may leak into the roof structure through
the nail holes.
The thing about Bichothane is that when a nail penetrates it, it is
self-healing and seals around the nail,resulting in a water proof
attachment.
It is an inexpensive "insurance" against common leaks.
If you really wanted a leakproof roof, you could put "water & ice "
shield all the way up to the peak of the roof. Not too many people do
this because the cost of the material alone is about $.40 a square
foot. But it is common to put this membrane along the eves because that
is where the water collects and refreezes in the winter.
Also another common place to put water and ice shield is in the
vallies on the roof. This is because water can collect in the winter
and refreeze at these points also, and depending on how your roofer
lays the shingles in the valley, more leaks tend to occur in sa valley
that is cut in place rather than "WEAVED". (a good roofer will WEAVE
his vallies)
All being said, the cost to you should only be about $1.50 - $2.00 U.S.
per lineal foot of roof per side,and per lineal foot of run for the
vallies.
I really can't see trying to save a couple of hundred dollars to
skip on the assurance warer and ice gives you against the costly
repairs that may happen such as rot in your walls, roof sheathing,
ruined sheet-rock etc.
I hope this may give you some insight to the realities of using the
water and ice sheild.
(An excellent brand of water and ice shield is GRACE, it is the only
one I personally use.)
| |
| Edwin Pawlowski 2005-08-29, 12:21 am |
|
"ttt" <ttt@Spamers.com> wrote in message
news:4JednaXjVqF4yI_eRVn-jQ@rogers.com...
> Hi,
>
> I live in Toronto Canada and now I consider replacing roof. Pitch on the
> roof is 9/12. Question is - do I need "Ice and water shield"? They usually
> put it for eave protection around edges of the roof. I understood it is a
> self adheasive thick felt paper. Can instead "Ice and water shield" be
> used just 25 lb base sheet ? I was told that by Building code it is
> required just for pitches 7/12 and lower, but still most of quotes I god
> included this.
>
> Thank you
Sure you can get away without it. How much will it cost? How much will it
cost to have the damaged roof re-done in a few years with some new decking?
If you think it is worth the risk of your house, go for it. Perhaps we'll
have enough global warming to make the question moot.
| |
|
| Thank you very much everyone for explanation.
I will most definatelly go with "Ice and water shield".
I was told that one of the reasons why this company does not like "Ice and
Water shield", because in 20 years when I have to replace roof again, this
shield will be stuck to roof and I might have to change playwood under
shield as they'll be stuck. Should I be voried about that?
Thanks again. This group is very very helpfull.
"ttt" <ttt@Spamers.com> wrote in message
news:4JednaXjVqF4yI_eRVn-jQ@rogers.com...
> Hi,
>
> I live in Toronto Canada and now I consider replacing roof. Pitch on the
> roof is 9/12. Question is - do I need "Ice and water shield"? They usually
> put it for eave protection around edges of the roof. I understood it is a
> self adheasive thick felt paper. Can instead "Ice and water shield" be
> used just 25 lb base sheet ? I was told that by Building code it is
> required just for pitches 7/12 and lower, but still most of quotes I god
> included this.
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
| |
|
|
> I am a contractor in New England, where the winters are pretty
> rough. (probably not as tough as Winters in Canada.
> Anyways, "Ice & Water Shield" is much more than a self stick felt
> paper. It is a 1/16 - 3/32 " layer of what is technically known as
> Bichothane.(Spelling might not be 100%) Anyways, this material is an
> excellent way of preventing ICE DAMS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Just a point of clarification, ice & water shield does not prevent ice
dams, it helps reduce or eliminate the leaks that you get once you
already have an ice dam. Proper insulation and ventilation is what
prevents ice dams from occuring.
As others have already said, don't skimp, get the ice & water shield.
Ken
| |
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| Yes, in 20 years, or even one year the Ice & Water Shield will be stuck
solid to the surface of the plywood. What is wrong with that, it is supposed
to be bonded to the plywood.
When my roof was replaced last year, the Ice & Water Shield was still there,
stuck tight to the plywood. The roofers just stuck another layer over it,
and it was ready to be shingled. No problem.
"ttt" <ttt@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:ibGdnQMy2eLZgY7eRVn-pA@rogers.com...
> Thank you very much everyone for explanation.
> I will most definatelly go with "Ice and water shield".
> I was told that one of the reasons why this company does not like "Ice and
> Water shield", because in 20 years when I have to replace roof again, this
> shield will be stuck to roof and I might have to change playwood under
> shield as they'll be stuck. Should I be voried about that?
>
> Thanks again. This group is very very helpfull.
>
>
> "ttt" <ttt@Spamers.com> wrote in message
> news:4JednaXjVqF4yI_eRVn-jQ@rogers.com...
usually[color=darkred]
a[color=darkred]
>
>
| |
| RicodJour 2005-08-29, 8:21 pm |
| bynnie wrote:
>
> In regards to your question about water & ice shield,
> I am a contractor in New England, where the winters are pretty
> rough. (probably not as tough as Winters in Canada.
> Anyways, "Ice & Water Shield" is much more than a self stick felt
> paper. It is a 1/16 - 3/32 " layer of what is technically known as
> Bichothane.(Spelling might not be 100%)
{snip}
> (An excellent brand of water and ice shield is GRACE, it is the only
> one I personally use.)
Bituthene=AE is also made by W. R. Grace and is another trade name like
Ice & Water Shield=AE. The generic term would be self-adhered roofing
underlayment.
To the OP - it's great stuff. You'd be foolish to leave it out.
R=AE
| |
| Todd H. 2005-08-29, 8:21 pm |
| "ttt" <ttt@Spamers.com> writes:
> Hi,
>
> I live in Toronto Canada and now I consider replacing roof. Pitch on the
> roof is 9/12. Question is - do I need "Ice and water shield"? They usually
> put it for eave protection around edges of the roof. I understood it is a
> self adheasive thick felt paper. Can instead "Ice and water shield" be used
> just 25 lb base sheet ? I was told that by Building code it is required just
> for pitches 7/12 and lower, but still most of quotes I god included
> this.
Ice guard is required by code for all new roofs here in Chicagoland.
I strongly suspect there's a good reason for this.
If you're doing a tear off or new roof, definitely get this extra
protection.
Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/
| |
|
| Todd H. wrote: Ice guard is required by code for all new roofs here in
Chicagoland.
I strongly suspect there's a good reason for this.
The
city/builders/roofing materials industry are in bed together, ya think?
Tom
| |
| Todd H. 2005-08-29, 9:21 pm |
| "tom" <tomeshew@msn.com> writes:
> Todd H. wrote: Ice guard is required by code for all new roofs here in
> Chicagoland.
> I strongly suspect there's a good reason for this.
> The
> city/builders/roofing materials industry are in bed together, ya think?
> Tom
Yeah, I'm sure it's that and not the spate of ice damning water
infiltration into the interior that countless neighbors have reported
on their older roofs.
Please.
--
Todd
PS Your tinfoil hat is on crooked.
| |
|
| Todd wrote Yeah, I'm sure it's that and not the spate of ice damning
water
infiltration into the interior that countless neighbors have reported
on their older roofs.
Please.
Just call it a healthy skepticism. Of course, the builders _could_
take a little extra time and effort to properly insulate and ventilate,
eh? Don't get me wrong, I&W shield's great stuff, but not necessary
when things are done right in the first place. Tom
| |
|
| In article <4JednaXjVqF4yI_eRVn-jQ@rogers.com>, ttt says...
>
>Hi,
>
>I live in Toronto Canada and now I consider replacing roof. Pitch on the
>roof is 9/12. Question is - do I need "Ice and water shield"? They usually
>put it for eave protection around edges of the roof. I understood it is a
>self adheasive thick felt paper. Can instead "Ice and water shield" be used
>just 25 lb base sheet ? I was told that by Building code it is required just
>for pitches 7/12 and lower, but still most of quotes I god included this.
>
>Thank you
>
Every roof I've seen go up over the past several years here in Maine has it
including our addition. I agree with the other posters....the relatively minimal
money you'd save isn't worth the risk of not using it.
Cin
--
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