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Ground Fault Interrupter question
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| Jim-Poncin 2006-01-29, 7:21 pm |
| I apparently ruined the ground fault interrupter outlet in the garage when I
was trying to fix something. The thing has been a pain in the XXX. I plan to
replace it with a regular non-gfi wall outlet.
Any major reason not to? I know enough not to grab hot wires.
Thanks
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| Gideon 2006-01-29, 7:21 pm |
|
Jim-Poncin wrote:
I apparently ruined the ground fault interrupter outlet in the garage when I
was trying to fix something. The thing has been a pain in the XXX. I plan to
replace it with a regular non-gfi wall outlet.
Any major reason not to?
====================
Nope. Those GFCIs are a ripoff and really not needed.
Just like paying insurance premiums, bi-annual visits to
the dentist, annual physical exams, driver's education
classes, safety settings on weapons and washing your
hands before eating.
I'd go into more detail, but I'm in the middle of removing
the nose guard safety springs on all of my nail guns.
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"Jim-Poncin" <jphkjkhkj@jkjhjkhkj.net> wrote in message
news:swbDf.5837$1n4.4713@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I apparently ruined the ground fault interrupter outlet in the garage when I
> was trying to fix something. The thing has been a pain in the XXX. I plan to
> replace it with a regular non-gfi wall outlet.
>
> Any major reason not to? I know enough not to grab hot wires.
>
> Thanks
For starters, it's a code requirement (210-8(a)(2) if the outlet is accessible
You may know enough not to grab hot wires, but do you inspect each cord and power tool
before you plug it in every time you use them? Saw a training film on accidental
electrocution years ago. A mom was making a video of her kid using a shop vac to clean his
car. It had a fault, he's dead.
I guess it depends on valuable your (or someone else's) life is...
| |
|
| A properly grounded outlet is pretty safe. GFCI protection offers more
protection against equipment malfunction, especially in wet environments
"Jim-Poncin" <jphkjkhkj@jkjhjkhkj.net> wrote in message
news:swbDf.5837$1n4.4713@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>I apparently ruined the ground fault interrupter outlet in the garage when
>I was trying to fix something. The thing has been a pain in the XXX. I plan
>to replace it with a regular non-gfi wall outlet.
>
> Any major reason not to? I know enough not to grab hot wires.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
| |
|
| It's also possible the "problems" you have had are caused by the very thing
that GFCI's protect against
"RBM" <rbm2(remove this)@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ZYbDf.1442$uD5.370@fe12.lga...
>A properly grounded outlet is pretty safe. GFCI protection offers more
>protection against equipment malfunction, especially in wet environments
>
>
> "Jim-Poncin" <jphkjkhkj@jkjhjkhkj.net> wrote in message
> news:swbDf.5837$1n4.4713@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>
| |
|
| Does that mean that every outlet should be GFCI?
"Rick" <notta@goodone.com> wrote in message
news:DXbDf.8481$vU2.3360@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Jim-Poncin" <jphkjkhkj@jkjhjkhkj.net> wrote in message
> news:swbDf.5837$1n4.4713@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
when I[color=darkred]
plan to[color=darkred]
>
>
> For starters, it's a code requirement (210-8(a)(2) if the outlet is
accessible
>
> You may know enough not to grab hot wires, but do you inspect each cord
and power tool
> before you plug it in every time you use them? Saw a training film on
accidental
> electrocution years ago. A mom was making a video of her kid using a shop
vac to clean his
> car. It had a fault, he's dead.
>
>
> I guess it depends on valuable your (or someone else's) life is...
>
>
| |
|
| In article <swbDf.5837$1n4.4713@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
jphkjkhkj@jkjhjkhkj.net says...
>
>I apparently ruined the ground fault interrupter outlet in the garage when I
>was trying to fix something. The thing has been a pain in the XXX. I plan to
>replace it with a regular non-gfi wall outlet.
>
>Any major reason not to? I know enough not to grab hot wires.
Well, one major reason: it has been required by code in garage areas for over
20 years. Replace it with a new GFCI. If the old one was a 'pain in the XXX',
it was either because it is faulty, or it is just doing its job and dropping
off the power due to a ground fault.
Dennis
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|
|
"Gideon" <zerospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:74cDf.70701$Q11.35382@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>
> Bob wrote:
> Does that mean that every outlet should be GFCI?
>
> =============
>
> It means that the outlets in the most dangerous
> locations should be GFCI.
>
Actually, only the first outlet in a circuit needs a GFCI. All of the
outlets downstream will also be protected.
Side note: one time while putting in a basement renovation, I managed to cut
through the Romex which was a part of the circuit into which I was plugged.
Protected by a GFCI, the only thing that happened is that the GFCI tripped
and the tool died. Without a GFCI, I could have wound up as part of a 120V
circuit --
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| Tony Hwang 2006-01-29, 11:21 pm |
| Gideon wrote:
> Jim-Poncin wrote:
> I apparently ruined the ground fault interrupter outlet in the garage when I
> was trying to fix something. The thing has been a pain in the XXX. I plan to
> replace it with a regular non-gfi wall outlet.
>
> Any major reason not to?
>
> ====================
>
> Nope. Those GFCIs are a ripoff and really not needed.
> Just like paying insurance premiums, bi-annual visits to
> the dentist, annual physical exams, driver's education
> classes, safety settings on weapons and washing your
> hands before eating.
>
> I'd go into more detail, but I'm in the middle of removing
> the nose guard safety springs on all of my nail guns.
>
>
Hi,
I am laughing.
| |
| Tony Hwang 2006-01-29, 11:21 pm |
| Jim-Poncin wrote:
> I apparently ruined the ground fault interrupter outlet in the garage when I
> was trying to fix something. The thing has been a pain in the XXX. I plan to
> replace it with a regular non-gfi wall outlet.
>
> Any major reason not to? I know enough not to grab hot wires.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
Hi,
You are alive today because GFCI died for you, LOL
| |
| SQLit 2006-01-29, 11:21 pm |
|
"Gideon" <zerospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:DUbDf.70700$Q11.69312@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>
> Jim-Poncin wrote:
> I apparently ruined the ground fault interrupter outlet in the garage when
I
> was trying to fix something. The thing has been a pain in the XXX. I plan
to
> replace it with a regular non-gfi wall outlet.
>
> Any major reason not to?
>
> ====================
>
> Nope. Those GFCIs are a ripoff and really not needed.
> Just like paying insurance premiums, bi-annual visits to
> the dentist, annual physical exams, driver's education
> classes, safety settings on weapons and washing your
> hands before eating.
>
> I'd go into more detail, but I'm in the middle of removing
> the nose guard safety springs on all of my nail guns.
>
Excellent response.
Do you suppose that he caught the sarcasm?
| |
| gfretwell@aol.com 2006-01-30, 12:21 am |
| On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:15:45 -0500, "Bob" <bobb25@comcast.net> wrote:
>Does that mean that every outlet should be GFCI?
In the 2008 NEC it is very likely they will all have to be AFCI wich
gives you 30ma GFCI protection, unless the new rule gets killed in
the coordinating committee. It is currenty approved by CMP 2.
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-01-30, 1:21 am |
| when you go to sell your home it will have to be replaced. they are
cheap and add much safety, install a new one now
| |
| Mark Lloyd 2006-01-30, 1:21 am |
| On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 23:07:15 GMT, "Gideon" <zerospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Jim-Poncin wrote:
>I apparently ruined the ground fault interrupter outlet in the garage when I
>was trying to fix something. The thing has been a pain in the XXX. I plan to
>replace it with a regular non-gfi wall outlet.
>
>Any major reason not to?
>
>====================
>
>Nope. Those GFCIs are a ripoff and really not needed.
>Just like paying insurance premiums, bi-annual visits to
>the dentist, annual physical exams, driver's education
>classes, safety settings on weapons and washing your
>hands before eating.
>
>I'd go into more detail, but I'm in the middle of removing
>the nose guard safety springs on all of my nail guns.
>
I had a GFCI in my kitchen that failed with a loud buzzing sound. It
had attracted a boxfull of ants, ant eggs, and ant feces.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
| |
|
| On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 00:24:19 GMT, "JimR" <jimr@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>"Gideon" <zerospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:74cDf.70701$Q11.35382@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>Actually, only the first outlet in a circuit needs a GFCI. All of the
>outlets downstream will also be protected.
>
Be sure to include the outlet your refrigerator is plugged into. The
smell of rotting food means you're protected.
>Side note: one time while putting in a basement renovation, I managed to cut
>through the Romex which was a part of the circuit into which I was plugged.
>Protected by a GFCI, the only thing that happened is that the GFCI tripped
>and the tool died. Without a GFCI, I could have wound up as part of a 120V
>circuit --
>
| |
|
| On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 00:24:19 GMT, "JimR" <jimr@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>"Gideon" <zerospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:74cDf.70701$Q11.35382@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>Actually, only the first outlet in a circuit needs a GFCI. All of the
>outlets downstream will also be protected.
So should the first outlet in every circuit have a GFCI?
What about the ceiling and wall fixtures?
Is there a difference between GFI and GFCI.
>Side note: one time while putting in a basement renovation, I managed to cut
>through the Romex which was a part of the circuit into which I was plugged.
>Protected by a GFCI, the only thing that happened is that the GFCI tripped
>and the tool died. Without a GFCI, I could have wound up as part of a 120V
>circuit --
>
Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.
| |
|
| On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:25:27 -0600, dthompson4389@SPAMwowway.com (DT)
wrote:
>
>
>
>Well, one major reason: it has been required by code in garage areas for over
>20 years. Replace it with a new GFCI. If the old one was a 'pain in the XXX',
>it was either because it is faulty, or it is just doing its job and dropping
>off the power due to a ground fault.
I had neighbors who took their 110V smoke detector in for repairs
because it kept going off. While they didn't have it, the fire
started, in the stove clock. It has been sending out tiny bits of
"smoke", products of combustion, for weeks, and they thought they were
all false alarms.
>
>Dennis
Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.
| |
| Mark Lloyd 2006-01-30, 2:21 am |
| On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:25:27 -0600, dthompson4389@SPAMwowway.com (DT)
wrote:
>In article <swbDf.5837$1n4.4713@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>jphkjkhkj@jkjhjkhkj.net says...
>
>
>Well, one major reason: it has been required by code in garage areas for over
>20 years. Replace it with a new GFCI. If the old one was a 'pain in the XXX',
>it was either because it is faulty, or it is just doing its job and dropping
>off the power due to a ground fault.
>
>Dennis
I had one GFCI that would trip anytime you plugged in something. Even
an extension cord with nothing on the other end. Even one of those
plastic outlet fillers.
It was the same one that attracted that boxfull of ants, ant eggs, and
ant feces.
Replacing that GFCI (and killing the ants) fixed both problems.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
| |
| George E. Cawthon 2006-01-30, 2:21 am |
| Rick wrote:
> "Jim-Poncin" <jphkjkhkj@jkjhjkhkj.net> wrote in message
> news:swbDf.5837$1n4.4713@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>
>
>
> For starters, it's a code requirement (210-8(a)(2) if the outlet is accessible
>
> You may know enough not to grab hot wires, but do you inspect each cord and power tool
> before you plug it in every time you use them? Saw a training film on accidental
> electrocution years ago. A mom was making a video of her kid using a shop vac to clean his
> car. It had a fault, he's dead.
>
>
> I guess it depends on valuable your (or someone else's) life is...
>
>
You and Gideon ought to get together and make
half-way reasonable statement.
| |
| George E. Cawthon 2006-01-30, 2:21 am |
| George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Rick wrote:
>
> You and Gideon ought to get together and make half-way reasonable
> statement.
Oops that was supposed to be get together with Rick.
| |
| George E. Cawthon 2006-01-30, 2:21 am |
| George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Rick wrote:
>
> You and Gideon ought to get together and make half-way reasonable
> statement.
I give can get it right so I'll quit and blame it
on the terrible cold I've got. I think is a lack
of GFCI in my brain.
| |
|
| mm wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 00:24:19 GMT, "JimR" <jimr@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> So should the first outlet in every circuit have a GFCI?
>
Only required for receptacles in "dangerous locations" (generally
outside, garage, basement, kitchen). To state the obvious, the circuit
downstream from the GFCI has to be wired to the load side of the GFCI.
> What about the ceiling and wall fixtures?
>
Only required for receptacles. Also some pool lites.
> Is there a difference between GFI and GFCI.
>
IIRC they all used to be called GFIs. I believe now GFIs trip on 30 mA
ground fault (for equipment protection) and GFCIs trip on 5 mA (to
protect people).
For your amusement plug connnected refrigerators/freezers in commercial
kitchens have to be protected by GFCIs. The argument is properly
operating refrigerators won't trip a GFCI and people have been
shocked/electrocuted? by refrigerators.
bud--
| |
|
|
"George E. Cawthon" <GeorgeC-Boise@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:rPhDf.310520$qk4.273841@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> George E. Cawthon wrote:
>
> I give can get it right so I'll quit and blame it
> on the terrible cold I've got. I think is a lack
> of GFCI in my brain.
Not sure what you're trying to say either, but read the original post. The guy has
problems with the GFCI and apparently ruined it while trying to "fix" something. In his
case, I think a GFCI would be a good idea...
| |
| Chris Lewis 2006-01-30, 2:21 pm |
| According to Bud-- <remove.BudNews@isp.com>:
> IIRC they all used to be called GFIs. I believe now GFIs trip on 30 mA
> ground fault (for equipment protection) and GFCIs trip on 5 mA (to
> protect people).
GFI (Ground Fault Interrupter) is the same thing as GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit
(or Current) Interrupter). Just slightly different acronym.
GFI/GFCIs trip at 5ma. AFCIs (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters) trip on
arc detection _and_ have a ground fault function at around 30ma.
> For your amusement plug connnected refrigerators/freezers in commercial
> kitchens have to be protected by GFCIs. The argument is properly
> operating refrigerators won't trip a GFCI and people have been
> shocked/electrocuted? by refrigerators.
I would imagine so. Large units, heavy duty electrics, usually metal
casings.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
| |
| someone 2006-01-30, 4:21 pm |
| On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 23:07:15 GMT, "Gideon" <zerospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Jim-Poncin wrote:
>I apparently ruined the ground fault interrupter outlet in the garage when I
>was trying to fix something. The thing has been a pain in the XXX. I plan to
>replace it with a regular non-gfi wall outlet.
>
>Any major reason not to?
>
>====================
>
>Nope. Those GFCIs are a ripoff and really not needed.
>Just like paying insurance premiums, bi-annual visits to
>the dentist, annual physical exams, driver's education
>classes, safety settings on weapons and washing your
>hands before eating.
>
>I'd go into more detail, but I'm in the middle of removing
>the nose guard safety springs on all of my nail guns.
>
And I'm cutting off all the extraneous (ground) prongs on electrical
cords, and thinking about how much cheaper a house will be without all
those ground wires and the annoying circuit breakers.
&&&&
Sorry about the following irrelevancy, but it needed saying anyway...
Dusty knew it was a sin to eat meat on Friday, so he had a green salad
instead.
Dusty got a bad stomach ache because of some spoiled lettuce, and went
to a hospital. His condition got much worse, despite the half-hourly
praying. He got to go home after 4 agonizing months, sometimes so bad
he had trouble hearing the prayers.
On the way home, he met a woman (also Catholic) on the street, and
really couldn't control the urge to have immediate sex. Both believed
any sort of protection here was a sin, so Dusty got a bad case of
AIDS.
After 8 more agonizing months in the hospital (should have been much
less, but this is a Catholic hospital and they don't believe in
euthanasia), the AIDS had caused enough brain damage to make Dusty a
mental vegetable.
Death took another year, despite the now-constant prayers. He had an
extremely expensive funeral paid for by donations from around the
world, which no one enjoyed.
As to the possible existence of Heaven, remember there is nothing left
of Dusty at this point.
Meanwhile, Buddy ate a hot dog and lived a long and happy life.
| |
|
| Chris Lewis wrote:
> According to Bud-- <remove.BudNews@isp.com>:
>
>
>
> GFI (Ground Fault Interrupter) is the same thing as GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit
> (or Current) Interrupter). Just slightly different acronym.
>
> GFI/GFCIs trip at 5ma. AFCIs (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters) trip on
> arc detection _and_ have a ground fault function at around 30ma.
>
I found the reference for what I said. It is from Mike Holt at:
http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarc...rs~20030301.htm
bud--
| |
| Jim-Poncin 2006-01-31, 1:21 pm |
|
"JimR" <jimr@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:T0dDf.5900$1n4.690@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Gideon" <zerospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:74cDf.70701$Q11.35382@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> Actually, only the first outlet in a circuit needs a GFCI. All of the
> outlets downstream will also be protected.
>
> Side note: one time while putting in a basement renovation, I managed to
> cut through the Romex which was a part of the circuit into which I was
> plugged. Protected by a GFCI, the only thing that happened is that the
> GFCI tripped and the tool died. Without a GFCI, I could have wound up as
> part of a 120V circuit --
In replacing the defective garage GFCI, I got zapped. I switched the circuit
breaker marked for the garage outlets off. Started taking the old outlet out
and got zapped. It didn't injure me, but obviously I didn't enjoy it.
I used my hot light to test which circuit breaker actually broke the
circuit - it was marked for smoke detectors.
The moral of this story is get a hot light and use it before trusting what
the electrician marked up on the breaker box.
| |
| Mark Lloyd 2006-01-31, 11:21 pm |
| On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:36:29 GMT, "Jim-Poncin"
<jphkjkhkj@jkjhjkhkj.net> wrote:
>
>"JimR" <jimr@invalid.net> wrote in message
>news:T0dDf.5900$1n4.690@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>In replacing the defective garage GFCI, I got zapped. I switched the circuit
>breaker marked for the garage outlets off. Started taking the old outlet out
>and got zapped. It didn't injure me, but obviously I didn't enjoy it.
>
>I used my hot light to test which circuit breaker actually broke the
>circuit - it was marked for smoke detectors.
>The moral of this story is get a hot light and use it before trusting what
>the electrician marked up on the breaker box.
>
>
>
>
Or do your own marking. That's something I always do when moving in
somewhere.
BTW, most panels were insufficiently marked, such as "plugs" (where?)
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
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