Home Repair forum - Boy, am I in the wrong line of work .........

Author

Boy, am I in the wrong line of work .........

Steve B

2006-10-25, 9:25 pm

Yesterday, our large Whirlpool self cleaning oven quit working. That is,
the electronic panel on it went black, and the latch that holds it shut
during cleaning engaged partially. We can still open it with a fork, but
the oven or clock or electronics won't work.

Call the guy. $80 for someone to come out and tell us what's wrong.

Needs two fuses, the guy says. About $20 per, and another $60 for the
service call. He doesn't fix things, just gives estimates.

Today, the guy comes and says it will be $275 MORE to fix the thing. We say
we'll get back to him when he faxes us a written bid. No intention of
getting back to him.

The friggin thing can be replaced for $600. They want $355 to fix this.

Anyone got any suggestions? I think I can pull the unit and check the
obvious fuses.

Geez, these guys make my heart surgeon look like a minimum wage worker.

Steve

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-26, 3:25 am

"Steve B" <dsrttrvlr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:nMU%g.15978$ob4.14492@newsfe10.phx...
> Yesterday, our large Whirlpool self cleaning oven quit working. That is,
> the electronic panel on it went black, and the latch that holds it shut
> during cleaning engaged partially. We can still open it with a fork, but
> the oven or clock or electronics won't work.
>
> Call the guy. $80 for someone to come out and tell us what's wrong.
>
> Needs two fuses, the guy says. About $20 per, and another $60 for the
> service call. He doesn't fix things, just gives estimates.
>
> Today, the guy comes and says it will be $275 MORE to fix the thing. We
> say we'll get back to him when he faxes us a written bid. No intention of
> getting back to him.
>
> The friggin thing can be replaced for $600. They want $355 to fix this.
>
> Anyone got any suggestions? I think I can pull the unit and check the
> obvious fuses.
>
> Geez, these guys make my heart surgeon look like a minimum wage worker.
>
> Steve
>

Real appliance parts stores, and often public libraries have repair books
which deal with specific brands & models of appliances. I'd find one, or get
ready to shell out the cash to a repair person. My only other suggestion
would be to open the yellow pages and look for a locally owned appliance
store which has a repair & parts department. I recently had a drainage
problem with my dishwasher. I went to one of these stores to buy the service
manual. The parts guy asked what was wrong, showed me a $7.00 plastic valve,
and said the odds were 90% it would fix the problem. It did. He also spun
the computer screen around and showed me exactly where it went. I called
back the next day and asked his boss where the guy usually went for lunch,
and got him a $20.00 gift certificate.

Steve Barker LT

2006-10-26, 3:25 am

And when you replace it, buy a gas unit. Then you won't have to worry about
such things. (and you can cook properly on it too)

--
Steve

"Steve B" <dsrttrvlr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:nMU%g.15978$ob4.14492@newsfe10.phx...
> Yesterday, our large Whirlpool self cleaning oven quit working. That is,
> the electronic panel on it went black, and the latch that holds it shut
> during cleaning engaged partially. We can still open it with a fork, but
> the oven or clock or electronics won't work.
>
> Call the guy. $80 for someone to come out and tell us what's wrong.
>
> Needs two fuses, the guy says. About $20 per, and another $60 for the
> service call. He doesn't fix things, just gives estimates.
>
> Today, the guy comes and says it will be $275 MORE to fix the thing. We
> say we'll get back to him when he faxes us a written bid. No intention of
> getting back to him.
>
> The friggin thing can be replaced for $600. They want $355 to fix this.
>
> Anyone got any suggestions? I think I can pull the unit and check the
> obvious fuses.
>
> Geez, these guys make my heart surgeon look like a minimum wage worker.
>
> Steve
>

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-26, 3:25 am

"Steve Barker LT" <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5N2dnQr8rvP_gt3YnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@giganews.com...
> And when you replace it, buy a gas unit. Then you won't have to worry
> about such things. (and you can cook properly on it too)
>
> --
> Steve

He's talking about the electronics, not the circuit that makes the elements
glow. Gas ranges often have the same delicate electronics as electric
models.

Jim

2006-10-26, 3:25 am

"Steve B" <dsrttrvlr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:nMU%g.15978$ob4.14492@newsfe10.phx...
> Yesterday, our large Whirlpool self cleaning oven quit working. That is,
> the electronic panel on it went black, and the latch that holds it shut
> during cleaning engaged partially. We can still open it with a fork, but
> the oven or clock or electronics won't work.
>
> Call the guy. $80 for someone to come out and tell us what's wrong.
>
> Needs two fuses, the guy says. About $20 per, and another $60 for the
> service call. He doesn't fix things, just gives estimates.
>
> Today, the guy comes and says it will be $275 MORE to fix the thing. We
> say we'll get back to him when he faxes us a written bid. No intention of
> getting back to him.
>
> The friggin thing can be replaced for $600. They want $355 to fix this.
>
> Anyone got any suggestions? I think I can pull the unit and check the
> obvious fuses.
>
> Geez, these guys make my heart surgeon look like a minimum wage worker.
>
> Steve
Steve,

I can relate to this as I am a pipeline welder/contractor in the oil
industry. I make more than any Dr. and a lot of surgeons...... in fact, if I
needed structural welding done for myself, I'd hire someone else cause I
can't even afford my own rates....LOL.......Jim

Jim

2006-10-26, 3:25 am

> Steve,
>
> I can relate to this as I am a pipeline welder/contractor in the oil
> industry. I make more than any Dr. and a lot of surgeons...... in fact, if
> I needed structural welding done for myself, I'd hire someone else cause I
> can't even afford my own rates....LOL.......Jim
>Forgot to add that if it's broke that bad and you don't want to pay to fix
>it...then take it to a charitable place that rebuilds that sort of stuff
>and buy a new one...hope I was of some help..get'er done!...lol...Jim

nowforsale

2006-10-26, 3:25 am

lady calls a plumber because her plumbing doesn't work

plumber shows up and she shows him the plumbing

plumber pulls hammer out of tool kit, bangs on pipe, and says "that will be
$350 m'am"

lady says "just for banging on the pipe?"

plumber says "no m'am, it's for knowing where to bang on the pipe"

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-26, 9:25 am

"nowforsale" <nowforsale@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fWY%g.23303$GR2.4939@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> lady calls a plumber because her plumbing doesn't work
>
> plumber shows up and she shows him the plumbing
>
> plumber pulls hammer out of tool kit, bangs on pipe, and says "that will
> be $350 m'am"
>
> lady says "just for banging on the pipe?"
>
> plumber says "no m'am, it's for knowing where to bang on the pipe"
>

That's not funny!

In my previous house, there was a problem with the dip tube in the water
heater. It was covered under warranty, as long as the repair was done by one
of a handful of plumbers on AO Smith's list. While the plumber was at the
house, I pointed out the old iron drain pipes under my kitchen, which
clogged on a fairly regular basis. I was planning on remodeling the kitchen,
so I asked the plumber how much to switch the pipes to PVC. He said $350, so
as long as he was there, I had him do the job. It took 90 minutes.

Moved to a new house. The 50 year old iron pipes were even worse. Called the
same plumber and said "No rush, but if you're nearby, stop over and tell me
what the same thing will cost". He lives 10 minutes away. He stopped by.
Estimate: $1500.00. After I got up off the floor, I said "The other house
was $350. Why's this $1500?? It looks like about the same amount of pipe,
and it's much easier to work on here - it's all out in the open - no
corners". He says "Travel charges. I was already at your other house,
right?".

No further comment.

Stormin Mormon

2006-10-26, 9:25 am

I'm remembering the joke about a dentist who calls a plumber. When the
drain is cleared, the dentist remarks "I don't even make this much
money". The plumber replies "neither did I when I was a dentist".

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Jim" <myplace@home> wrote in message
news:12k0ds7t8204b01@corp.supernews.com...

Steve,

I can relate to this as I am a pipeline welder/contractor in the
oil
industry. I make more than any Dr. and a lot of surgeons...... in
fact, if I
needed structural welding done for myself, I'd hire someone else cause
I
can't even afford my own rates....LOL.......Jim

hallerb@aol.com

2006-10-26, 9:25 am

HBC my competitor servicing laminators charges 250 bucks for the first
hours labor to repair a 1500 buck laminator.

I charge a fraction of that, and feel like a thief somewtimes for a 00
bucks a hour, but it includes travvel........

laminators put plastic on paper a good example is menus clear covering.

Sears your best example of ripoff chars more travel to get the same
tech to service a furnace with air. 75 nucks charge for swapping tool
kits.....

being in the service business myself it costs a lot to operate, but
geez some are just a ripoff

jeffc

2006-10-26, 9:25 am

Yes it's expensive, but you have to keep some things in mind. It takes a
lot of overhead before you can make any money. Overhead in time and money
that you have to spend before you can charge anyone. If it's such an easy
buck, then why aren't you doing it? You'll get rich quickly and easily,
right?

Second, in that industry, you do not simply work 40 hours a week and get
paid that same $250 an hour or whatever outrageous thing it is. Maybe you
only get 15 hours a week like that. The rest of the time is spent dealing
with obnoxious customers who never end up using your services, dealing with
paperwork, buying material, etc etc etc. I'm not saying they don't make a
good living, but I'm saying it's naive to think of it in terms of "Oh, this
guy got paid this much for an hour's work, therefore he makes this much per
hour."

Steve Barker LT

2006-10-26, 9:25 am

And more often, not. I can't imagine why. I've never seen such a unit.

--
Steve Barker

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LfV%g.3988$ya1.1831@news02.roc.ny...
> "Steve Barker LT" <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5N2dnQr8rvP_gt3YnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> He's talking about the electronics, not the circuit that makes the
> elements glow. Gas ranges often have the same delicate electronics as
> electric models.
>

Mikey S.

2006-10-26, 9:25 am

You've never seen a gas stove with electronic controls?

--

Mike S.

"Steve Barker LT" <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:P-idndTf6YSlIt3YnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> And more often, not. I can't imagine why. I've never seen such a unit.
>
> --
> Steve Barker
>
>
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:LfV%g.3988$ya1.1831@news02.roc.ny...
>
>

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-26, 9:25 am

We're talking about the clock, timer, and very often, the electronic circuit
that controls the oven. We are NOT talking about the 4 knobs that control
the burners. With this is mind, you've either seen it, or you haven't
looked. There are plenty of them.

"Steve Barker LT" <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:P-idndTf6YSlIt3YnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> And more often, not. I can't imagine why. I've never seen such a unit.
>
> --
> Steve Barker
>
>
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:LfV%g.3988$ya1.1831@news02.roc.ny...
>
>

Nick Hull

2006-10-26, 1:25 pm

In article <Wh30h.357314$QM6.26729@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Mikey S." <abcxyz@att.net> wrote:

> You've never seen a gas stove with electronic controls?

I've seen them but would never buy a gas stove that wouldn't work during
a power failure ;)

--
Free men own guns - www.geocities/CapitolHill/5357/

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-26, 1:25 pm

Edwin Pawlowski

2006-10-26, 1:25 pm

"Nick Hull" <nhull@isp.com> wrote in message
news:nhull-725558.08170526102006@dialupusa.usenetserver.com...
> In article <Wh30h.357314$QM6.26729@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "Mikey S." <abcxyz@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> I've seen them but would never buy a gas stove that wouldn't work during
> a power failure ;)

Ovens may not, but burners will You have to light the burners with a match.

If a stove has anything electrical on it, even if it is just a light or a
timer, it must, by law, have a pilotless igniter

Steve B

2006-10-26, 1:25 pm

"Nick Hull" <nhull@isp.com> wrote in message
news:nhull-725558.08170526102006@dialupusa.usenetserver.com...
> In article <Wh30h.357314$QM6.26729@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "Mikey S." <abcxyz@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> I've seen them but would never buy a gas stove that wouldn't work during
> a power failure ;)
>
> --
> Free men own guns - www.geocities/CapitolHill/5357/

I know for goddam sure I will NEVER buy another stove with electronic
controls. I didn't want this one, but I didn't get to vote.

Just give me the simple one with manual controls that I can change in five
minutes.

I"ll cope.

Steve

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-26, 1:25 pm

"Steve B" <dsrttrvlr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:WF40h.20797$ob4.17172@newsfe10.phx...
>
> "Nick Hull" <nhull@isp.com> wrote in message
> news:nhull-725558.08170526102006@dialupusa.usenetserver.com...
>
> I know for goddam sure I will NEVER buy another stove with electronic
> controls. I didn't want this one, but I didn't get to vote.
>
> Just give me the simple one with manual controls that I can change in five
> minutes.
>
> I"ll cope.
>
> Steve
>

I tried to find one a few years ago. It's not that easy. I didn't check any
of the Wolf or Viking stoves, although I couldn't afford them anyway.

Cheri

2006-10-26, 1:25 pm

Steve B wrote in message ...

>I know for goddam sure I will NEVER buy another stove with electronic
>controls. I didn't want this one, but I didn't get to vote.
>
>Just give me the simple one with manual controls that I can change in
five
>minutes.
>
>I"ll cope.
>
>Steve

I hear you Steve. When I replaced my old oven with control knobs to one
with electronic controls, I had no idea what a pain it would be. All
that pressing arrows, waiting for the correct cooking time, then it goes
fast and zips past by several hours, and you have to go back, and start
over. Geez, never again.

Cheri

Cheri

PaPaPeng

2006-10-26, 5:25 pm

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:39:19 -0500, "Steve Barker LT"
<railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote:

>And when you replace it, buy a gas unit. Then you won't have to worry about
>such things. (and you can cook properly on it too)

I love the speed and heat of gas but I will never have such an
appliance in my house, except the gas furnace. An open flame is too
risky in a frame built house. The possibility of a gas leak is also
dangerous - a house destroying explosion or gas poisoning. I know I
may be unecessarily alarmist. But on two occassions I did leave my
2000 watt range element at max for the hours when I was not at home.
A similar mistake like that with a gas range would have left me with
no home to come home to.

Edwin Pawlowski

2006-10-26, 5:25 pm

"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> I love the speed and heat of gas but I will never have such an
> appliance in my house, except the gas furnace. An open flame is too
> risky in a frame built house. The possibility of a gas leak is also
> dangerous - a house destroying explosion or gas poisoning. I know I
> may be unecessarily alarmist. But on two occassions I did leave my
> 2000 watt range element at max for the hours when I was not at home.
> A similar mistake like that with a gas range would have left me with
> no home to come home to.

Gas would have saved you.

I've had gas for 58 years, electric for two in there some time ago. The
only time I ever had a problem was when my daughter almost burned the house
down with (mis)use of the electric range. It would not have happened with
the visible flame of a gas burner. What you fail to see is the reason the
electric was left on. You did not see the flame of gas that you would have
turned off because you saw it. Gas would have been safer in your case, and
in mine when my daughter left a pot unattended on an electric burner.

Yes, a couple of houses are damaged from gas each year, but so are people
electrocuted or burned in fires stated by electricity malfunctions Funny
that of 58 years of using gas, no problem, with two years of electric, the
fire department had to be called out.

George

2006-10-26, 5:25 pm

PaPaPeng wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:39:19 -0500, "Steve Barker LT"
> <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I love the speed and heat of gas but I will never have such an
> appliance in my house, except the gas furnace. An open flame is too
> risky in a frame built house. The possibility of a gas leak is also
> dangerous - a house destroying explosion or gas poisoning. I know I
> may be unecessarily alarmist. But on two occassions I did leave my
> 2000 watt range element at max for the hours when I was not at home.
> A similar mistake like that with a gas range would have left me with
> no home to come home to.

There is almost no difference. Electric elements certainly reach the
ignition temperature of almost anything that can be dropped or fall on
them. I can't imagine where leaving a gas burner on would be any
different than an electric element.

George

2006-10-26, 5:25 pm

Steve B wrote:
> "Nick Hull" <nhull@isp.com> wrote in message
> news:nhull-725558.08170526102006@dialupusa.usenetserver.com...
>
> I know for goddam sure I will NEVER buy another stove with electronic
> controls. I didn't want this one, but I didn't get to vote.
>
> Just give me the simple one with manual controls that I can change in five
> minutes.
>
> I"ll cope.
>
> Steve
>
>
Lots of luck finding anything without electronic controls.

Mikey S.

2006-10-26, 5:25 pm

What makes you think a Gas stove left on will be any more or less likely to
start a fire than an electric? A burner with nothing on it? Neither should
start a fire. A burner with food on it? Either will get plenty hot enough to
start a fire. An oven? Either one should be regulated to a safe temperature
by the thermostat.

--

Mike S.

"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eq22k2hkg97poacpnp5rpfdp5779oqnje5@4ax.com...
> I love the speed and heat of gas but I will never have such an
> appliance in my house, except the gas furnace. An open flame is too
> risky in a frame built house. The possibility of a gas leak is also
> dangerous - a house destroying explosion or gas poisoning. I know I
> may be unecessarily alarmist. But on two occassions I did leave my
> 2000 watt range element at max for the hours when I was not at home.
> A similar mistake like that with a gas range would have left me with
> no home to come home to.

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-26, 5:25 pm

"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eq22k2hkg97poacpnp5rpfdp5779oqnje5@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:39:19 -0500, "Steve Barker LT"
> <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I love the speed and heat of gas but I will never have such an
> appliance in my house, except the gas furnace. An open flame is too
> risky in a frame built house. The possibility of a gas leak is also
> dangerous - a house destroying explosion or gas poisoning. I know I
> may be unecessarily alarmist. But on two occassions I did leave my
> 2000 watt range element at max for the hours when I was not at home.
> A similar mistake like that with a gas range would have left me with
> no home to come home to.

People at various stages of life should not be allowed to operate certain
devices, such as stoves, automobiles, etc. Any chance that's you?

Charlie Morgan

2006-10-26, 5:25 pm

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:29:58 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:39:19 -0500, "Steve Barker LT"
><railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>I love the speed and heat of gas but I will never have such an
>appliance in my house, except the gas furnace. An open flame is too
>risky in a frame built house. The possibility of a gas leak is also
>dangerous - a house destroying explosion or gas poisoning. I know I
>may be unecessarily alarmist. But on two occassions I did leave my
>2000 watt range element at max for the hours when I was not at home.
>A similar mistake like that with a gas range would have left me with
>no home to come home to.

I love cooking with a gas stove except for trying to SIMMER something on very
low heat. The perfect setup for me would be a cooktop with at least one electric
burner for that purpose. I also greatly prefer the ovens to be electric. They do
make combo units with gas burners and electric oven, but that doesn't quite
fufill my wish.

CWM

Mikey S.

2006-10-26, 5:25 pm

You just need a stove with a simmer burner..mine has a 5th tiny burner in
the center, turned down it barely keeps a pot warm..which is just perfect at
times. It goes MUCH lower than a normal burner.
I have heard that an electric oven is better, but I can't comment on that,
never had one.

--

Mike S.

"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote in message
news:u4b2k2tjdo38d3d327n2gq98gc4esesge9@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:29:58 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I love cooking with a gas stove except for trying to SIMMER something on
> very
> low heat. The perfect setup for me would be a cooktop with at least one
> electric
> burner for that purpose. I also greatly prefer the ovens to be electric.
> They do
> make combo units with gas burners and electric oven, but that doesn't
> quite
> fufill my wish.
>
> CWM
>
>

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-26, 8:25 pm

"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote in message
news:u4b2k2tjdo38d3d327n2gq98gc4esesge9@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:29:58 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> I love cooking with a gas stove except for trying to SIMMER something on
> very
> low heat. The perfect setup for me would be a cooktop with at least one
> electric
> burner for that purpose. I also greatly prefer the ovens to be electric.
> They do
> make combo units with gas burners and electric oven, but that doesn't
> quite
> fufill my wish.
>
> CWM
>
>

Some cooking stores sell a flat, thick metal disk with a handle on it. Its
purpose is to diffuse the flame so it's easier to simmer.

Charlie Morgan

2006-10-26, 8:25 pm

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 22:18:55 GMT, "Mikey S." <abcxyz@att.net> wrote:

>You just need a stove with a simmer burner..mine has a 5th tiny burner in
>the center, turned down it barely keeps a pot warm..which is just perfect at
>times. It goes MUCH lower than a normal burner.
>I have heard that an electric oven is better, but I can't comment on that,
>never had one.

Thanks, Mikey. I've seen those, but they still produce a hot spot that is a
problem for some delicate things. In my new kitchen I had a two burner electric
cooktop with infinite temp control installed for this purpose. I used to put a
heavy iron plate over a gas burner, but it was not as user friendly.

CWM

user

2006-10-26, 8:25 pm

hallerb@aol.com wrote:
> HBC my competitor servicing laminators charges 250 bucks for the first
> hours labor to repair a 1500 buck laminator.
>
> I charge a fraction of that, and feel like a thief somewtimes for a 00
> bucks a hour, but it includes travvel........
>
> laminators put plastic on paper a good example is menus clear covering.
>
> Sears your best example of ripoff chars more travel to get the same
> tech to service a furnace with air. 75 nucks charge for swapping tool
> kits.....
>
> being in the service business myself it costs a lot to operate, but
> geez some are just a ripoff
>

WTF did you just say?

PaPaPeng

2006-10-26, 9:25 pm

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:33:07 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
<dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>People at various stages of life should not be allowed to operate certain
>devices, such as stoves, automobiles, etc. Any chance that's you?
>

Getting there. I am retired and live alone. I am normally pretty
alert. But on those two occassions I had episodes where I am in a
mental fog for weeks on end that I forgot even my own rule to always
finish whatever I am doing at the stove first before leaving the
kitchen. I have one of those "solid" pancake element stove where it
is hard to know if the stove is on unless the pot is aboil. During
those mental fog episodes I don't operate tools (eg.lawn mower, table
saw) or so something where I can get hurt. But one has gotta eat. I
don't have a car cuz' I don't use one enough to justify the expenses.
My bicycle is good for trips to the mall (groceries, library, Dollar
Store and MacDonalds, etc.) about 10 blocks away. There is a
humongous multiple big box store business park 20 blocks away. The
bus stop is just three houses away across my front door. Talkes me
downtown in 40 minutes to my favorite restaurants. Max 1.5 hours by
bus to anywhere cross town. I hardly of ever need to rent a car. For
emergencies there are friendly neighbors and relatives further away.
I never had to call in that favor yet. There is even a general
hospital 12 blocks away. I've got it made. No way will I ever move
elsewhere.

Sidney4

2006-10-26, 9:25 pm

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:GI80h.10545$gZ2.234@trndny07...

> I've had gas for 58 years

I'd hate to be around you, when you let loose.

hallerb@aol.com

2006-10-26, 9:25 pm

> I love cooking with a gas stove except for trying to SIMMER something on very
> low heat. The perfect setup for me would be a cooktop with at least one electric
> burner for that purpose.

my stove not real expensive has a simmer burner a small one and also a
high btu one...

Goedjn

2006-10-27, 5:25 pm

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:49:02 -0400, Charlie Morgan <*@*.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:29:58 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>I love cooking with a gas stove except for trying to SIMMER something on very
>low heat. The perfect setup for me would be a cooktop with at least one electric
>burner for that purpose. I also greatly prefer the ovens to be electric. They do
>make combo units with gas burners and electric oven, but that doesn't quite
>fufill my wish.

Isn't that pretty much what a double boiler is for?

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-27, 5:25 pm

"Goedjn" <prose@mail.uri.edu> wrote in message
news:0vm4k2lfk93962l10aauo2dqcdabjtis06@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:49:02 -0400, Charlie Morgan <*@*.com> wrote:
>
>
> Isn't that pretty much what a double boiler is for?

Yeah, for small quantities. Won't help much for a 5 gallon pot of soup.

Charlie Morgan

2006-10-27, 5:25 pm

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:21:15 -0400, Goedjn <prose@mail.uri.edu> wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:49:02 -0400, Charlie Morgan <*@*.com> wrote:
>
>
>Isn't that pretty much what a double boiler is for?

No, it really isn't.

CWM

MRS. CLEAN

2006-10-27, 5:25 pm

This reminds me when cars were first electronic. The mechanic would
charge you $500 to put it on "the machine" to determine you needed a
new board for $70.

If you can isolate the problem, and buy a new board or replace the
internal panel, you'd be better off than the route forced on you right
now.

When my dad's starter went out in his car, he replaced the entire line
for $100 instead of isolating the particular part (diagnosis $500 part
$10).

How old is your oven, anyway?

Steve B wrote:
> Yesterday, our large Whirlpool self cleaning oven quit working. That is,
> the electronic panel on it went black, and the latch that holds it shut
> during cleaning engaged partially. We can still open it with a fork, but
> the oven or clock or electronics won't work.
>
> Call the guy. $80 for someone to come out and tell us what's wrong.
>
> Needs two fuses, the guy says. About $20 per, and another $60 for the
> service call. He doesn't fix things, just gives estimates.
>
> Today, the guy comes and says it will be $275 MORE to fix the thing. We say
> we'll get back to him when he faxes us a written bid. No intention of
> getting back to him.
>
> The friggin thing can be replaced for $600. They want $355 to fix this.
>
> Anyone got any suggestions? I think I can pull the unit and check the
> obvious fuses.
>
> Geez, these guys make my heart surgeon look like a minimum wage worker.
>
> Steve

PaPaPeng

2006-10-27, 8:25 pm

On 27 Oct 2006 15:14:58 -0700, "MRS. CLEAN" <goldenmike4393@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>This reminds me when cars were first electronic. The mechanic would
>charge you $500 to put it on "the machine" to determine you needed a
>new board for $70.
>
>If you can isolate the problem, and buy a new board or replace the
>internal panel, you'd be better off than the route forced on you right
>now.
>
>When my dad's starter went out in his car, he replaced the entire line
>for $100 instead of isolating the particular part (diagnosis $500 part
>$10).

I can fix practically anything from 20 years ago and before. At least
there were discrete parts where one can figure out the malfunction and
replace/repair a component. With modern appliances and equipment just
replace the function module. It is a problem enough to take one apart
(concealed snap-on tabs) let alone ID which chip is for what and
there are no replacement parts anyway. And how does one solder PCB
micro traces that one can barely see as separate conductors.
Pointless repairs applies to many plastic parts in that if one part
fails the associated parts aren't going to last much longer anyway.

Any item $200 and under is a throwaway product if you can't fix it
within 30 minutes. Professional repair services find it cheaper to
replace modules. At best they may accummulate a box full of
"repairable" modules and rebuild them as a batch by mixing and
matching good parts from several modules. There is no money in
finding out how things actually go wrong and fix that anymore.

Steve Barker LT

2006-10-28, 3:25 am

What HE said.

--
Steve Barker

"Nick Hull" <nhull@isp.com> wrote in message
news:nhull-725558.08170526102006@dialupusa.usenetserver.com...
> In article <Wh30h.357314$QM6.26729@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "Mikey S." <abcxyz@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> I've seen them but would never buy a gas stove that wouldn't work during
> a power failure ;)
>
> --
> Free men own guns - www.geocities/CapitolHill/5357/

Steve Barker LT

2006-10-28, 3:25 am

Mine (maytag) has none. Just electric spark ign.

--
Steve Barker

"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:D7Sdna4wB4m1h9zYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@adelphia.com...
> Steve B wrote:
> Lots of luck finding anything without electronic controls.

Steve Barker LT

2006-10-28, 3:25 am

Mine has a KNOB you turn to a certain temp. No electronics. Yes, i've seen
the ones you speak of. Wouldn't have 'em. If i wanna know what time it is,
i'll look at my phone.

--
Steve Barker

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%t30h.3998$Ka1.1621@news01.roc.ny...
> We're talking about the clock, timer, and very often, the electronic
> circuit that controls the oven. We are NOT talking about the 4 knobs that
> control the burners. With this is mind, you've either seen it, or you
> haven't looked. There are plenty of them.
>
>
> "Steve Barker LT" <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:P-idndTf6YSlIt3YnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>

Steve Barker LT

2006-10-28, 3:25 am

Why would a gas oven light the house on fire any faster than an electric
one?

--
Steve Barker

"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eq22k2hkg97poacpnp5rpfdp5779oqnje5@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:39:19 -0500, "Steve Barker LT"
> <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I love the speed and heat of gas but I will never have such an
> appliance in my house, except the gas furnace. An open flame is too
> risky in a frame built house. The possibility of a gas leak is also
> dangerous - a house destroying explosion or gas poisoning. I know I
> may be unecessarily alarmist. But on two occassions I did leave my
> 2000 watt range element at max for the hours when I was not at home.
> A similar mistake like that with a gas range would have left me with
> no home to come home to.

Philip Lewis

2006-10-28, 3:25 am

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> writes:
>Some cooking stores sell a flat, thick metal disk with a handle on it. Its
>purpose is to diffuse the flame so it's easier to simmer.

lacking that, get a nice heavy iron skillet... same diffuse, and is
great to use.

--
May no harm befall you,
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
In my email replace SeeEmmYou.EeeDeeYou with CMU.EDU

PaPaPeng

2006-10-28, 3:25 am

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:35:38 -0500, "Steve Barker LT"
<railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote:

>Why would a gas oven light the house on fire any faster than an electric
>one?

I have come across lots of house fires started by candlelit dinners
and parties, by candlelit ranges, flame warmed fondue pots and of
course by gas ranges. I won't have an open flame anywhere in my
house. No cigarette smoking. Its just one of those safety and peace
of mind things. If its not there I don't have to worry about it or
have to make allowance for it (as in safety practices I have to take
into account when I light a candle.) I bet this Halloween will see
several house fires from candlelit pumpkins.

Stormin Mormon

2006-10-28, 1:25 pm

http://forums.vugames.com/servlet/J...unny%20fart.jpg

Light a match, Ed!

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Sidney4 >" <<sidney4@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:454167e8$0$13681$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:GI80h.10545$gZ2.234@trndny07...

> I've had gas for 58 years

I'd hate to be around you, when you let loose.

Steve Barker LT

2006-10-29, 8:25 pm

I suppose you have electric heat also eh? What a waste.

--
Steve Barker

"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:96u5k2psd3t1ikbmtii59ii7jn4kn77hn3@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:35:38 -0500, "Steve Barker LT"
> <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have come across lots of house fires started by candlelit dinners
> and parties, by candlelit ranges, flame warmed fondue pots and of
> course by gas ranges. I won't have an open flame anywhere in my
> house. No cigarette smoking. Its just one of those safety and peace
> of mind things. If its not there I don't have to worry about it or
> have to make allowance for it (as in safety practices I have to take
> into account when I light a candle.) I bet this Halloween will see
> several house fires from candlelit pumpkins.

PaPaPeng

2006-10-30, 3:25 am

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:56:10 -0600, "Steve Barker LT"
<railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote:

>I suppose you have electric heat also eh? What a waste.

In my original post I said gas heating is the only gas equipment I
will have. Its fast, clean, cheap and practically maintenance free.
My hot water heater is gas too. These two items of equipment are well
shielded and safe.

Nick Hull

2006-10-30, 9:25 am

In article <j31bk29tnolqr0is08m6pfp4a78058vbe0@4ax.com>,
PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:56:10 -0600, "Steve Barker LT"
> <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> In my original post I said gas heating is the only gas equipment I
> will have. Its fast, clean, cheap and practically maintenance free.
> My hot water heater is gas too. These two items of equipment are well
> shielded and safe.

Gas hot water heaters can trigger explosions if they are mounted on the
floor.

--
Free men own guns - www.geocities/CapitolHill/5357/

Larry Bud

2006-10-30, 1:25 pm

> I love the speed and heat of gas but I will never have such an
> appliance in my house, except the gas furnace. An open flame is too
> risky in a frame built house. The possibility of a gas leak is also
> dangerous - a house destroying explosion or gas poisoning.

I know what you mean. Every night I come home and there's another
neighbor of mine whose house blew up.

> I know I
> may be unecessarily alarmist. But on two occassions I did leave my
> 2000 watt range element at max for the hours when I was not at home.
> A similar mistake like that with a gas range would have left me with
> no home to come home to.

Why not? There would be an open flame, no hotter than your electric
range.

When I was in an apt, I had an electric range that I had a tea kettle
on. The damn whistle on the kettle didn't work, and I completely
forgot about it. About 20 minutes later I smelled something burning.
The electric range MELTED a hole in the bottom of the kettle. It was
pretty thick aluminum.

No way the gas range could have melted the aluminum.

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-30, 1:25 pm

"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1162225484.011850.90860@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> I know what you mean. Every night I come home and there's another
> neighbor of mine whose house blew up.

Same here. My neighborhood's down to 3 houses, where there used to be about
70 just a year ago.

Doug Miller

2006-10-30, 1:25 pm

In article <1162225484.011850.90860@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Why not? There would be an open flame, no hotter than your electric
>range.

Ummmm... do you really think that electric burners get as hot as a gas flame?
>
>When I was in an apt, I had an electric range that I had a tea kettle
>on. The damn whistle on the kettle didn't work, and I completely
>forgot about it. About 20 minutes later I smelled something burning.
>The electric range MELTED a hole in the bottom of the kettle. It was
>pretty thick aluminum.

It may have *burned* a hole in the bottom...
>
>No way the gas range could have melted the aluminum.
>
Sorry, but your reality check just bounced.

Aluminum melts at 660 C.
The temperature of a natural gas flame is approx 900 C.
[http://www.doctorfire.com/flametmp.html]

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Seymour Bigby-Heinz

2006-10-30, 1:25 pm

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:37:58 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
<dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1162225484.011850.90860@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>Same here. My neighborhood's down to 3 houses, where there used to be about
>70 just a year ago.

My own house has blown up 12 times already today!

Sy

PaPaPeng

2006-10-30, 1:25 pm

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 05:52:12 -0800, Nick Hull <nhull@isp.com> wrote:

>Gas hot water heaters can trigger explosions if they are mounted on the
>floor.

Remove yours then. I am very comfortable with mine.

krw

2006-10-30, 9:25 pm

In article <hAq1h.18000$TV3.10179@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
spambait@milmac.com says...
> In article <1162225484.011850.90860@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ummmm... do you really think that electric burners get as hot as a gas flame?

Confined, electric heat gets much hotter than an open flame. Ever
hear of curtains catching fire above an electric heating element?
Gas forced air or hydronic?

>
> It may have *burned* a hole in the bottom...

No, it'll melt it.

> Sorry, but your reality check just bounced.
>
> Aluminum melts at 660 C.

If it burned the aluminum it would ba a tad hotter than 660C! It
would have been quite a sight, if anything was left to see.

> The temperature of a natural gas flame is approx 900 C.
> [http://www.doctorfire.com/flametmp.html]

Well ventilated; not confined under the kettle.

--
Keith

Doug Miller

2006-10-31, 9:25 am

In article <MPG.1fb088802cf71561989a68@news.individual.net>, krw <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:
>In article <hAq1h.18000$TV3.10179@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
>spambait@milmac.com says...
> Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Confined, electric heat gets much hotter than an open flame.

Really?

> Ever
>hear of curtains catching fire above an electric heating element?

No.

>Gas forced air or hydronic?

Huh?
>
>
>No, it'll melt it.
>
>
>If it burned the aluminum it would ba a tad hotter than 660C! It
>would have been quite a sight, if anything was left to see.
>
>
>Well ventilated; not confined under the kettle.

Under a kettle on a gas burner isn't exactly "confined", you know. There's
plenty of room for air to enter. I repeat: your reality check bounced. The
temperature of a natural gas flame is *much* higher than the melting point of
aluminum.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Mikey S.

2006-10-31, 9:25 am

I've seen it done, an empty lightweight aluminum frying pan forgotten that
melted on a gas burner. It didn't run like water, but it melted a hole and
sagged. Lucky it was outside on a propane camping stove or it could have
damaged something else as well. The heat from a kitchen stove burner,
whether propane or natural gas would be quite similar.

I have used electric stoves a few times and I have no doubt they would melt
an aluminum pot or pan as well.

Either one can easily start a fire if misused.

But gas does cook better!

--

Mike S.

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:mLH1h.23739$e66.14527@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <MPG.1fb088802cf71561989a68@news.individual.net>, krw
> <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:
>
> Really?
>
>
> No.
>
>
> Huh?
>
> Under a kettle on a gas burner isn't exactly "confined", you know. There's
> plenty of room for air to enter. I repeat: your reality check bounced. The
> temperature of a natural gas flame is *much* higher than the melting point
> of
> aluminum.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Sam E

2006-10-31, 9:25 am

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:28:56 -0500, Seymour Bigby-Heinz
<sbutz@crock.o-stuff> wrote:

>On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:37:58 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
><dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>My own house has blown up 12 times already today!
>

Were you in it?

>Sy

Steve Barker LT

2006-10-31, 9:25 am

And I think that is the whole point. the stove is there for cooking, not
leaving empty pots on. There's a reason restaurants use gas and not pansy
assed electric burners and ovens.

--
Steve Barker

"Mikey S." <abcxyz@att.net> wrote in message
news:cqI1h.156446$QZ1.94764@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Either one can easily start a fire if misused.
>
> But gas does cook better!
>
> --
>
> Mike S.

Goedjn

2006-10-31, 9:25 am

>
>Under a kettle on a gas burner isn't exactly "confined", you know. There's
>plenty of room for air to enter. I repeat: your reality check bounced. The
>temperature of a natural gas flame is *much* higher than the melting point of
>aluminum.

I propose an experiment. Who's got a $5.00 aluminum pot and
a gas stove they don't mind scarring up?

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-31, 1:25 pm

"Goedjn" <prose@mail.uri.edu> wrote in message
news:cqpek2hgdubuupotr56s7kp480lnpfnjbl@4ax.com...
>
>
> I propose an experiment. Who's got a $5.00 aluminum pot and
> a gas stove they don't mind scarring up?
>

It wouldn't matter. Miller will still want the last word on the subject.

Doug Miller

2006-10-31, 1:25 pm

In article <u%J1h.4387$Ka1.2443@news01.roc.ny>, "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Goedjn" <prose@mail.uri.edu> wrote in message
>news:cqpek2hgdubuupotr56s7kp480lnpfnjbl@4ax.com...
>
>It wouldn't matter. Miller will still want the last word on the subject.

You just can't *stand* it when I know something you don't, can you?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

JoeSpareBedroom

2006-10-31, 1:25 pm

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:AdM1h.25652$7I1.17781@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> In article <u%J1h.4387$Ka1.2443@news01.roc.ny>, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> You just can't *stand* it when I know something you don't, can you?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

I haven't said a word about melting pots and evil stoves. I'm just watching
this silly debate.

floresrikitic@hotmail.com

2006-10-31, 1:26 pm

Steve B wrote:
> Yesterday, our large Whirlpool self cleaning oven quit working. That is,
> the electronic panel on it went black, and the latch that holds it shut
> during cleaning engaged partially. We can still open it with a fork, but
> the oven or clock or electronics won't work.
>
> Call the guy. $80 for someone to come out and tell us what's wrong.
>
> Needs two fuses, the guy says. About $20 per, and another $60 for the
> service call. He doesn't fix things, just gives estimates.
>
> Today, the guy comes and says it will be $275 MORE to fix the thing. We say
> we'll get back to him when he faxes us a written bid. No intention of
> getting back to him.
>
> The friggin thing can be replaced for $600. They want $355 to fix this.

Steve, maybe this is a clue to simplify your life. We have a new, but
very
simple and traditional gas stove/oven. Knobs for turning the burners
on and
off, and we clean the thing ourselves when needed. The thing probably
didn't
cost as much as what the guy wanted to fix yours.

LinkBot