Home Repair forum - Oil Furnace smokes

Author

Oil Furnace smokes

K_man

2006-10-27, 8:25 pm

I am new here, thanks for reading.
I have had my furnace worked on and cleaned, but there was some junk
in the lines so I ended up changing the nozzle my self (after unit cut
off a few times).
I had a few weeks of cleaning or changing nozzles, but it
seems to be running better now.
The unit calls for a 1.0 gph 80 degree type A, but I used a type W
because the guy at hardware store said it was ok to use.
Is this correct?
The problem I'm having now is that when the heat comes on and
the unit runs for a while, smoke is coming out near the chamber
somewhere.
Would the wrong nozzle cause this?
It is a delvan nozzle.

This is a Columbia Boiler with a becket burner.

Jeff Wisnia

2006-10-29, 5:25 pm

K_man wrote:

> I am new here, thanks for reading.
> I have had my furnace worked on and cleaned, but there was some junk
> in the lines so I ended up changing the nozzle my self (after unit cut
> off a few times).
> I had a few weeks of cleaning or changing nozzles, but it
> seems to be running better now.
> The unit calls for a 1.0 gph 80 degree type A, but I used a type W
> because the guy at hardware store said it was ok to use.
> Is this correct?
> The problem I'm having now is that when the heat comes on and
> the unit runs for a while, smoke is coming out near the chamber
> somewhere.
> Would the wrong nozzle cause this?
> It is a delvan nozzle.
>
> This is a Columbia Boiler with a becket burner.
>

Try posting to alt.hvac, you'll get lots of answers there.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

Proctologically Violated©®

2006-10-29, 9:25 pm

Well, smart-assed answers, at any rate.
Does the boiler have a separate air adjustment/intake/blower?
These might need adjusting.
More complicated if the unit has high fire/low fire.
Too much air can drastically lower system efficiency. Heat up the
proverbial chimbley.
--
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Ever-preparing for The Grand Insertion
Party Nominee, IPPVM
Independent Party of the Proctologically Violated®© (M)asses
"That's proly not a hemorrhoid you're feeling.... "
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"Jeff Wisnia" <jwisnia@conversent.net> wrote in message
news:CfWdnX-vydzbvNjYnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> K_man wrote:
>
>
> Try posting to alt.hvac, you'll get lots of answers there.
>
> Jeff
>
> --
> Jeffry Wisnia
> (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
> The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

Eigenvector

2006-10-29, 9:25 pm

"Jeff Wisnia" <jwisnia@conversent.net> wrote in message
news:CfWdnX-vydzbvNjYnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> K_man wrote:
>
>
> Try posting to alt.hvac, you'll get lots of answers there.
>
> Jeff

Oh he'll get answers alright, answers about his intelligence, geneology, and
if patient maybe an answer to his question.

Proctologically Violated©®

2006-10-30, 3:25 am

Yeah, mebbe if he begs or offers up his sister.
--
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Ever-preparing for The Grand Insertion
Party Nominee, IPPVM
Independent Party of the Proctologically Violated®© (M)asses
"That's proly not a hemorrhoid you're feeling.... "
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"Eigenvector" <m44_master@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:j-idnXPgUN6Y7djYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Jeff Wisnia" <jwisnia@conversent.net> wrote in message
> news:CfWdnX-vydzbvNjYnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> Oh he'll get answers alright, answers about his intelligence, geneology,
> and if patient maybe an answer to his question.
>

K_man

2006-10-30, 8:25 pm

> Does the boiler have a separate air adjustment/intake/blower?
> These might need adjusting.
> More complicated if the unit has high fire/low fire.
> Too much air can drastically lower system efficiency. Heat up the
> proverbial chimbley.
> --
Yes it does have a blower motor that has some numbers (kind of like a
sun dial).
I can post some pictures later. There is a black pen marking on number
8, but it is set on
number 4. I guess the part with the air intake slots loosens up and you
turn to adjust?

The tech guy was messing with some adjustment one day and his assistant
would tell him
when the chimney was burning cleaner.

I just had the guy clean it. It was cutting off a lot, but tonight it
stayed on. I used some HOT oil treatment, so maybe it has worked in.

So tonight I turned the heat on and it takes a while for the smoke to
really pick up.
It looks like it's coming

K_man

2006-10-30, 8:25 pm

Proctologically Violated©®

2006-10-30, 9:25 pm

Yeah, you can likely adjust the air like that. But, by providing too much
combustion air, you might be masking another problem.
But most boilers smoke on ignition, and clear up after.
Does the burner fire normally, smoke later on, with each cycle, w/ you not
touching it?
Or do you clean the nozzle each time, it's OK, and then starts smoking?
That might provide a clue.

I'm rusty on #2 oil stuff (actually, on all stuff), but smoke is usually a
low air/oil ratio, and a clogged oil nozzle would RAISE the air/oil ratio.
Or an atomization issue. Air can be used to *atomize* the oil in the
nozzle, and if those passages get clogged, you'll get smoke.
Maybe there are two adjustments, one for atomizing air, one for combustion
air.
--
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, for *Anyone BUT* a Democrat or a Republican
Ending Corruption in Congress is the Single Best Way
to Materially Improve Your Life
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"K_man" <kenny.hamilton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162252083.005581.14450@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Yes it does have a blower motor that has some numbers (kind of like a
> sun dial).
> I can post some pictures later. There is a black pen marking on number
> 8, but it is set on
> number 4. I guess the part with the air intake slots loosens up and you
> turn to adjust?
>
> The tech guy was messing with some adjustment one day and his assistant
> would tell him
> when the chimney was burning cleaner.
>
> I just had the guy clean it. It was cutting off a lot, but tonight it
> stayed on. I used some HOT oil treatment, so maybe it has worked in.
>
> So tonight I turned the heat on and it takes a while for the smoke to
> really pick up.
> It looks like it's coming from inside the unit, but it's hard to pin
> point.
> It's not billowing out, but steady enough to smell.
>

Edwin Pawlowski

2006-10-30, 9:25 pm

"K_man" <kenny.hamilton@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> The tech guy was messing with some adjustment one day and his assistant
> would tell him
> when the chimney was burning cleaner.

He was a hack. A good serviceman uses instruments to tell if the burner is
efficient and smoke free. Getting the job done right will save on oil.

Proctologically Violated©®

2006-10-31, 3:25 am

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:%az1h.1745$wX.81@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "K_man" <kenny.hamilton@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> He was a hack. A good serviceman uses instruments to tell if the burner
> is efficient and smoke free. Getting the job done right will save on oil.
>
Actually, not true. When I was workin on berlers (#6), the only time we
used instruments was when preparing for inspections--and most of those were
exhaust/chimney related.
Good, efficient flames are obvious to a trained eye. Less obvious is the
issue of *too much* draft or combustion air, but regardless, good flames
themselves are rarely a problem, and a good old school mechanic will get the
air/draft very close w/o gauges, etc.
A moron w/ gauges is still a moron.
---
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, for *Anyone BUT* a Democrat or a Republican
Ending Corruption in Congress is the Single Best Way
to Materially Improve Your Life
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

Doug

2006-10-31, 3:25 am

On 30 Oct 2006 15:48:03 -0800, "K_man" <kenny.hamilton@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Yes it does have a blower motor that has some numbers (kind of like a
>sun dial).
>I can post some pictures later. There is a black pen marking on number
>8, but it is set on
>number 4. I guess the part with the air intake slots loosens up and you
>turn to adjust?
>
>The tech guy was messing with some adjustment one day and his assistant
>would tell him
>when the chimney was burning cleaner.
>
>I just had the guy clean it. It was cutting off a lot, but tonight it
>stayed on. I used some HOT oil treatment, so maybe it has worked in.
>
>So tonight I turned the heat on and it takes a while for the smoke to
>really pick up.
>It looks like it's coming from inside the unit, but it's hard to pin
>point.
>It's not billowing out, but steady enough to smell.

A burner misadjusted in terms of the air/fuel ratio will indeed smoke
but the smoke should be going up the chimney.

If smoke is entering the space outside the furnace or boiler, I
suspect back pressure in the combustion chamber, probably a draft
problem, possibly flue passages clogged with soot. If you are not VERY
familiar with this, get a pro in to do a complete cleaning and
checkout. You are using a bandaid approach....

Doug

2006-10-31, 3:25 am

Good point.
--
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, for *Anyone BUT* a Democrat or a Republican
Ending Corruption in Congress is the Single Best Way
to Materially Improve Your Life
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"Doug" <sparks06524nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2cndk21jbk5euk81ermtanq46377cqso13@4ax.com...
> On 30 Oct 2006 15:48:03 -0800, "K_man" <kenny.hamilton@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> A burner misadjusted in terms of the air/fuel ratio will indeed smoke
> but the smoke should be going up the chimney.
>
> If smoke is entering the space outside the furnace or boiler, I
> suspect back pressure in the combustion chamber, probably a draft
> problem, possibly flue passages clogged with soot. If you are not VERY
> familiar with this, get a pro in to do a complete cleaning and
> checkout. You are using a bandaid approach....
>
> Doug
>

yourname

2006-10-31, 1:25 pm

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
> news:%az1h.1745$wX.81@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Actually, not true. When I was workin on berlers (#6), the only time we
> used instruments was when preparing for inspections--and most of those were
> exhaust/chimney related.
> Good, efficient flames are obvious to a trained eye. Less obvious is the
> issue of *too much* draft or combustion air, but regardless, good flames
> themselves are rarely a problem, and a good old school mechanic will get the
> air/draft very close w/o gauges, etc.
> A moron w/ gauges is still a moron.
> ---
> Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
> Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
> Absolutely Vote, for *Anyone BUT* a Democrat or a Republican
> Ending Corruption in Congress is the Single Best Way
> to Materially Improve Your Life
> entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
> all d'numbuhs
>
>
>
Actually it is true, Boilers nowadays are efficient enough that you need
to do real smoke tests[littlepipe, filter paper etc] to tell the
difference between relative efficiency. Just burning now dying is not
good enough for 2.50 a gallon oil.

Plus heavy oil boilers are quite the diffent animal

2006-10-31, 1:25 pm

I believe that most of the efficiency nowadays is coming from improved heat
transfer, not combustion breakthroughs.
Ergo, adjusting a high efficiency boiler is likely similar, given similar
oil-atomization techniques.
Not saying instruments aren't good, just that I'd take a guy w/o instruments
who knew the real deal, over a 'here's-yer-bill-sir" tech w/ a cupla
instruments.
I used to do those smoke tests, w/ the filter paper, etc, in NYC. The smoke
requirements actually necessitated wasting a lot of heat!! IOW, cleaner
air, by a tad, at the expense of wasting oil!
Go figger.
--
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, for *Anyone BUT* a Democrat or a Republican
Ending Corruption in Congress is the Single Best Way
to Materially Improve Your Life
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"yourname" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:ktK1h.6763$ee4.1257@trndny06...
> Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> Actually it is true, Boilers nowadays are efficient enough that you need
> to do real smoke tests[littlepipe, filter paper etc] to tell the
> difference between relative efficiency. Just burning now dying is not good
> enough for 2.50 a gallon oil.
>
> Plus heavy oil boilers are quite the diffent animal

uncablu

2006-10-31, 5:25 pm

Proctologically Violated©® Wrote:
> "Edwin Pawlowski" esp@snet.net wrote in message
> news:%az1h.1745$wX.81@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...-
>
> "K_man" kenny.hamilton@gmail.com wrote in message-
>
> The tech guy was messing with some adjustment one day and his
> assistant
> would tell him
> when the chimney was burning cleaner.-
>
> He was a hack. A good serviceman uses instruments to tell if the
> burner
> is efficient and smoke free. Getting the job done right will save on
> oil.
> -
> Actually, not true. When I was workin on berlers (#6), the only time
> we
> used instruments was when preparing for inspections--and most of those
> were
> exhaust/chimney related.
> Good, efficient flames are obvious to a trained eye. Less obvious is
> the
> issue of *too much* draft or combustion air, but regardless, good
> flames
> themselves are rarely a problem, and a good old school mechanic will
> get the
> air/draft very close w/o gauges, etc.
> A moron w/ gauges is still a moron.
> ---
> Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
> Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
> Absolutely Vote, for *Anyone BUT* a Democrat or a Republican
> Ending Corruption in Congress is the Single Best Way
> to Materially Improve Your Life
> entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to
> reply--ie,
> all d'numbuhs

I am a licensed mechanical contractor and have been in the field for
almost 40 years, and I will be the first one to admit, that I cannot
tune-up an oil fired device by eye. Furthermore I will challenge any
one to prove to me that they can.

Proctologically Violated stated that "Good efficient flames are obvious
to a trained eye" but that draft is less obvious. Since draft is a flow
of air (too little, just enough or too much) and it is not visually
obvious, is not the concept of seeing a good flame, without knowing
what the draft is, an impossibility?

Also if getting it "very close w/o gauges" is not close enough for
inspections, how close is very close?

My analizer prints off all its findings for the homeowner and for me,
so there is no question about what was done.

So I guess that I am just a moron with a guage, but when I have
finished a tune-up I know that I got it right, and have evidence that
will stand up in court to prove it. Can your tech say the same?

Uncablu.

--
uncablu

2006-10-31, 8:25 pm

I'm not saying anyone w/ gauges is a moron. Just said if I had to choose,
I'd choose a knowledgeable guy w/o gauges over a neophyte w/ gauges.
My point was that at least at the time when I was doin berlers, the EPA
requirements (or whomever) were inconsistent w/ really good fuel efficiency.
We did what we had to do for the inspections, then set up the flame/draft
for a really good efficient burn, which was just at the brink of too-little
air, for reasons of heat transfer/contact time.
You can do all this by eye, and a little finagling. At least in bigassed #6
burners w/ high volume/high pressure atomizers, the flame had a real sweet
spot, white-white bright hot, really awesome.
W/ rotary-style burners, you couldn't get anywhere near that flame.

Mebbe now it's more finicky, but a flame is a flame, at least within similar
combustion motiffs.
--
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, for *Anyone BUT* a Democrat or a Republican
Ending Corruption in Congress is the Single Best Way
to Materially Improve Your Life
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"uncablu" <uncablu.2gkczb@diybanter.com> wrote in message
news:uncablu.2gkczb@diybanter.com...
>
> Proctologically Violated©® Wrote:
>
>
> I am a licensed mechanical contractor and have been in the field for
> almost 40 years, and I will be the first one to admit, that I cannot
> tune-up an oil fired device by eye. Furthermore I will challenge any
> one to prove to me that they can.
>
> Proctologically Violated stated that "Good efficient flames are obvious
> to a trained eye" but that draft is less obvious. Since draft is a flow
> of air (too little, just enough or too much) and it is not visually
> obvious, is not the concept of seeing a good flame, without knowing
> what the draft is, an impossibility?
>
> Also if getting it "very close w/o gauges" is not close enough for
> inspections, how close is very close?
>
> My analizer prints off all its findings for the homeowner and for me,
> so there is no question about what was done.
>
> So I guess that I am just a moron with a guage, but when I have
> finished a tune-up I know that I got it right, and have evidence that
> will stand up in court to prove it. Can your tech say the same?
>
> Uncablu.
>
>
>
>
> --
> uncablu

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