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Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > December 2006 > Questions regarding 240v outlet
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Questions regarding 240v outlet
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| farseer 2006-12-19, 9:25 pm |
| Hello,
in my home are a few 240v outlets that used to serve air conditioners.
We now have a central air system, so those outlets are no longer
needed.
Can i leave the 240v outlets as is and plug any old device into them?
For instance, if i were to plug my alarm clock into that outlet, what
would happen?
How can iconvert them to 120v outlets? is it simply a matter of using
only one of the two hot wires to wire a new 15 or 20 am outlet?
thanks much
| |
| Mark Lloyd 2006-12-20, 3:25 am |
| On 19 Dec 2006 18:50:39 -0800, "farseer" <farseer@optonline.net>
wrote:
>Hello,
>
>in my home are a few 240v outlets that used to serve air conditioners.
>We now have a central air system, so those outlets are no longer
>needed.
>
>Can i leave the 240v outlets as is and plug any old device into them?
>For instance, if i were to plug my alarm clock into that outlet, what
>would happen?
>
>How can iconvert them to 120v outlets? is it simply a matter of using
>only one of the two hot wires to wire a new 15 or 20 am outlet?
>
>thanks much
Is there a neutral wire at those outlets, or just the 2 hots? You'd
need neutral for 120V.
--
6 days until the winter solstice celebration
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
"Never underestimate the power of stupid
people in large groups"
| |
| farseer 2006-12-20, 3:25 am |
| I don't know yet as i haven't opened them up. Assuming there is, i can
simply arbitrarily select one hot and the neutral wire those two to the
new 120v outlet, correct?
Going back to my other question, what if i plugged an alarm clock into
that 240v outlet as it is today, would that do any harm?
On Dec 19, 10:25 pm, Mark Lloyd <mll...@xmail.com10.invalid> wrote:
> On 19 Dec 2006 18:50:39 -0800, "farseer" <fars...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> need neutral for 120V.
> --
> 6 days until the winter solstice celebration
>
> Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
>
> "Never underestimate the power of stupid
> people in large groups"
| |
|
| farseer wrote:
> I don't know yet as i haven't opened them up. Assuming there is, i can
> simply arbitrarily select one hot and the neutral wire those two to the
> new 120v outlet, correct?
>
> Going back to my other question, what if i plugged an alarm clock into
> that 240v outlet as it is today, would that do any harm?
The plug should not fit. If you forced it somehow, the clock would
almost certainly be destroyed, perhaps spectacularly.
>
> On Dec 19, 10:25 pm, Mark Lloyd <mll...@xmail.com10.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
| |
| Toller 2006-12-20, 3:25 am |
|
"farseer" <farseer@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1166583039.387723.218440@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Hello,
>
> in my home are a few 240v outlets that used to serve air conditioners.
> We now have a central air system, so those outlets are no longer
> needed.
>
> Can i leave the 240v outlets as is and plug any old device into them?
> For instance, if i were to plug my alarm clock into that outlet, what
> would happen?
>
> How can iconvert them to 120v outlets? is it simply a matter of using
> only one of the two hot wires to wire a new 15 or 20 am outlet?
>
Years ago I plugged my electric razor into a 240v outlet in Israel. It
immediately went up in a puff of blue smoke. I expect your clock would meet
a similar fate.
Does the outlet have 3 holes or 4? If 3 (which is almost certain to be the
case) you have no neutral and cannot use it for anything but devices that
need pure 240v. If 4, you could use it as the basis for a multiwire
circuit.
BUT, if 3 you can pull replace the 240 breaker with a 120v breaker; and put
the left over hot (hopefully a white wire) into the neutral bus. You will
now have, as soon as you replace the outlet with a 120v outlet, a 120v
circuit!
Obviously you have to be certain that you replace all the 240 components
with their 120v counterpart, and that you get everything sized properly, but
it is not difficult.
| |
|
| Check the AC input to the alarm clock. If it can accept 100V - 240V
you should be ok. If not you will probably damage it with 220V.
[/quote]
___________________________________
Home Improvement Forum
http://www.spicyhome.com
| |
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| On 19 Dec 2006 19:36:03 -0800, "farseer" <farseer@optonline.net>
wrote:
>I don't know yet as i haven't opened them up. Assuming there is, i can
>simply arbitrarily select one hot and the neutral wire those two to the
>new 120v outlet, correct?
>
>Going back to my other question, what if i plugged an alarm clock into
>that 240v outlet as it is today, would that do any harm?
Only to your alarm clock, and maybe to the house.
Those will burn up.
Don't forget not to try to use your electric razor in Europe either,
unless it has a switch to set it for 240.
>
| |
| buffalobill 2006-12-20, 3:25 am |
| cannot be done safely. breaker and wire and outlet must all match.
alarm clock would normally trip a 15 amp breaker. but even with an
adapter, improperly feeding large available amperage into a low wattage
device is tempting a fire when the alarm clock fails.
farseer wrote:
> Hello,
>
> in my home are a few 240v outlets that used to serve air conditioners.
> We now have a central air system, so those outlets are no longer
> needed.
>
> Can i leave the 240v outlets as is and plug any old device into them?
> For instance, if i were to plug my alarm clock into that outlet, what
> would happen?
>
> How can iconvert them to 120v outlets? is it simply a matter of using
> only one of the two hot wires to wire a new 15 or 20 am outlet?
>
> thanks much
| |
| Dick Adams 2006-12-20, 9:25 am |
| I do my own electrical work except for three-phase (240v).
Within the last two years, I knew the line going to my dryer
was problematic. It was just a matter of replacing the line
from the box to the outlet - less than 40 feet. I paid
someone to do it. That's how afraid I am about three-phase.
Electricity kills people and burns down houses. If you do
not respect it, you could die from either the shock or
smoke inhalation.
Dick
| |
| Doug Miller 2006-12-20, 9:25 am |
| In article <1166583039.387723.218440@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "farseer" <farseer@optonline.net> wrote:
>in my home are a few 240v outlets that used to serve air conditioners.
>We now have a central air system, so those outlets are no longer
>needed.
>
>Can i leave the 240v outlets as is and plug any old device into them?
No. (Duh.) You can plug a 240V device into them.
>For instance, if i were to plug my alarm clock into that outlet, what
>would happen?
*If* you can get the plug into the receptacle -- which is doubtful, since the
prong configurations are complete different -- the result would be a loud
"POP" accompanied by a bad smell, smoke, and possibly flame.
Oh -- the alarm clock won't work any more, either.
>
>How can iconvert them to 120v outlets? is it simply a matter of using
>only one of the two hot wires to wire a new 15 or 20 am outlet?
Call an electrician. Please. You don't even begin to realize the danger you
could be creating. At a bare minimum, at least go to a library or a home
center (like Home Depot or Lowes) and get yourself a book on residential
electrical wiring. Electricity is dangerous to those who don't understand it,
and (no offense intended) your questions show that you're in that group.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| Pete C. 2006-12-20, 9:25 am |
| mm wrote:[color=darkred]
>
> On 19 Dec 2006 19:36:03 -0800, "farseer" <farseer@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> Only to your alarm clock, and maybe to the house.
>
> Those will burn up.
>
> Don't forget not to try to use your electric razor in Europe either,
> unless it has a switch to set it for 240.
A very large percentage of recent product have auto ranging power
supplies that are happy with 100-240V 50/60Hz. With these all you need
to worry about is plug adapters.
Pete C.
| |
| Pete C. 2006-12-20, 9:25 am |
| Mark Lloyd wrote:
>
> On 19 Dec 2006 18:50:39 -0800, "farseer" <farseer@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> Is there a neutral wire at those outlets, or just the 2 hots? You'd
> need neutral for 120V.
> --
> 6 days until the winter solstice celebration
>
> Mark Lloyd
> http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
>
> "Never underestimate the power of stupid
> people in large groups"
If you're changing to 120V, you can repurpose the other hot as your
neutral (suitably marked of course). Indeed if this is a single run that
served a window A/C it's probably 12/2 w/ ground with the white wire
tagged black or red with tape.
Pete C.
| |
|
| On 20 Dec 2006 00:23:01 -0800, "buffalobill" <wjohnston@adelphia.net>
wrote:
>cannot be done safely. breaker and wire and outlet must all match.
Well, the wire can be heavier than it needs to be. And the wire and
breaker can both be heavier than the outlet will allow to be plugged
in.
After all we plug an 11 amp Hoover vacuum cleaner into the same
outlet
>alarm clock would normally trip a 15 amp breaker.
Huh? I don't think he will know that you're kidding.
>but even with an
>adapter, improperly feeding large available amperage into a low wattage
>device is tempting a fire when the alarm clock fails.
If 20 amps will start a fire, 15 amps can probably do so too.
After all we plug an 11 amp Hoover vacuum cleaner into the same outlet
we plug a 1/10 of an amp radio. And that could be a 15 amp outlet or
a 20 amp outlet. Any of those appliances could some day have a
short.
[color=darkred]
>farseer wrote:
| |
| Jeff Wisnia 2006-12-20, 1:25 pm |
| Dick Adams wrote:
> I do my own electrical work except for three-phase (240v).
>
> Within the last two years, I knew the line going to my dryer
> was problematic. It was just a matter of replacing the line
> from the box to the outlet - less than 40 feet. I paid
> someone to do it. That's how afraid I am about three-phase.
>
> Electricity kills people and burns down houses. If you do
> not respect it, you could die from either the shock or
> smoke inhalation.
>
> Dick
You should consider ceasing to do your own electrical work . At least
until you learn what "three phase" means.
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.
| |
|
| You can not plug a 120v plug into a 240v receptacle unless you
physically take a pair of pliers or something and bend.
If there is a neutral there you can change the receptacle out to a
120v receptacle but would also need to change the breaker to a single
pole breaker. Just have to figure out which hot to use.
>Hello,
>
>in my home are a few 240v outlets that used to serve air conditioners.
>We now have a central air system, so those outlets are no longer
>needed.
>
>Can i leave the 240v outlets as is and plug any old device into them?
>For instance, if i were to plug my alarm clock into that outlet, what
>would happen?
>
>How can iconvert them to 120v outlets? is it simply a matter of using
>only one of the two hot wires to wire a new 15 or 20 am outlet?
>
>thanks much
| |
| Chris Friesen 2006-12-24, 3:25 am |
| Tazz wrote:
> You can not plug a 120v plug into a 240v receptacle unless you
> physically take a pair of pliers or something and bend.
>
> If there is a neutral there you can change the receptacle out to a
> 120v receptacle but would also need to change the breaker to a single
> pole breaker. Just have to figure out which hot to use.
Or change it to a split-wired duplex receptacle.
You'd still have to change the breaker to the appropriate amperage though.
Chris
| |
| Doug Miller 2006-12-24, 1:25 pm |
| In article <12os66bbqk3lgb2@corp.supernews.com>, Chris Friesen <cbf123@mail.usask.ca> wrote:
>Tazz wrote:
>
>Or change it to a split-wired duplex receptacle.
>
>You'd still have to change the breaker to the appropriate amperage though.
Nonsense.
Breakers are sized to the conductor. The ampacity of a conductor does not
depend on voltage. A 20A circuit requires 12ga wire, for example, regardless
of whether it's a 240V or 120V circuit.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| Chris Friesen 2006-12-27, 9:25 am |
| Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <12os66bbqk3lgb2@corp.supernews.com>, Chris Friesen <cbf123@mail.usask.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Nonsense.
>
> Breakers are sized to the conductor. The ampacity of a conductor does not
> depend on voltage. A 20A circuit requires 12ga wire, for example, regardless
> of whether it's a 240V or 120V circuit.
You sure about that?
My reading of tables 210.21(B)(2), 210.21(B)(3) and 210.24 is that when
using a given receptacle, there are limits as to the breaker amperage,
regardless of wire size.
For instance, you cannot put a 15A receptacle on a 30A or higher
circuit, and you can only put one on a 20A circuit if it is a duplex
receptacle or there are other receptacles on the same circuit.
Motors and arc welders are excepted from the above, but that's a whole
other story.
Chris
| |
| Doug Miller 2006-12-27, 9:25 am |
| In article <12p4vidankbkr0e@corp.supernews.com>, Chris Friesen <cbf123@mail.usask.ca> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
> <cbf123@mail.usask.ca> wrote:
>
>
>You sure about that?
Absolutely.
>
>My reading of tables 210.21(B)(2), 210.21(B)(3) and 210.24 is that when
>using a given receptacle, there are limits as to the breaker amperage,
>regardless of wire size.
That doesn't have anything at all to do with voltage, though -- and you
appeared to be saying that changing from 240V to 120V would require changing
the breaker to a different amperage as well, which is not the case.
>
>For instance, you cannot put a 15A receptacle on a 30A or higher
>circuit, and you can only put one on a 20A circuit if it is a duplex
>receptacle or there are other receptacles on the same circuit.
Right, but that's not the same issue. I think we're talking about two
different things.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| Chris Friesen 2006-12-27, 5:25 pm |
| Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <12p4vidankbkr0e@corp.supernews.com>, Chris Friesen <cbf123@mail.usask.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Right, but that's not the same issue. I think we're talking about two
> different things.
Sorry, my bad. I had assumed that the original circuits were
heavier-duty than 20A.
Assuming that the original circuits are 15A circuits, or 20A circuits
wired with #12, then there would be no need to change out the breaker.
Chris
| |
|
| On 19 Dec 2006 18:50:39 -0800, "farseer" <farseer@optonline.net>
wrote:
>Hello,
>
>in my home are a few 240v outlets that used to serve air conditioners.
>We now have a central air system, so those outlets are no longer
>needed.
>
>Can i leave the 240v outlets as is and plug any old device into them?
>For instance, if i were to plug my alarm clock into that outlet, what
>would happen?
>
>How can iconvert them to 120v outlets? is it simply a matter of using
>only one of the two hot wires to wire a new 15 or 20 am outlet?
>
>thanks much
It is possible that you have a 120V outlet that is a single 20A type.
If this is the case, then you can plug in a clock or anything else you
want to. This would be the outlet I would want my computer equipment
on.
If it is 240V then a standard plug would not fit. If it is 240V then
take the white wire off of one of the poles at the breaker box and put
it on the neutral buss. You can also change the breaker to 2 single
pole breakers, but it would work fine leaving the 2 pole.
Then, change the receptacle to a standard plug.
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