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Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > February 2006 > Bosch washing machine - no spin
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Bosch washing machine - no spin
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| nigel.l.jones@gmail.com 2006-02-19, 12:21 pm |
| I have a UK Bosch front loading WFK2801 washing machine. It's around 8
years old.
I've had a few minor issues over the years - limescale and blown heater
elements, but it's basically worked fine.
It's been working fine until yesterday when I noticed a slight rasping
in (sparking? rubbing?) noise whilst spinning, but I ignored it. Wash
finished fine.
Today I put some clothes on for a rinse, and whilst the cycle completed
fine, the clothes were sodden. Further investigation showed the drum
would not rotate.
I dismantled the machine hoping to find a broken drive belt, but no..
- drive belt intact
- no water leaks (shorting)
- no burning evidence
I de-scaled various tubes etc I've done before that relate to
pumping/emptying & pressure sensing, which made no difference.
When the machines tries to spin, I can hear a relay clicking where I
would expect the drum to rotate. No error codes are shown (which has
happened before when the drum water/pressure sensor got blocked)
I removed the motor (easy, just 2 bolts + cables). Marked up as
- FHP motors
007 112 G 63 083480
0799 083971 600 N4 2422
230/240V 50Hz Isok1.B/F
Ac - Elektronik
FRW-Nr 304 7809 AA0
No idea what those numbers mean (apart from obvious)
Electrically there's a flat 7 pin connector. Top to bottom :
yellow, yellow, -> go to shaft at end of motor - measure speed?
blue ? near brushes
, gray -> motor brushes
, black ? near brushes
, brown ? near brushes?
,greeny yellow? disappear near brushes
What would you recommend to TEST the motor is at fault or not?
Any ideas for other likely causes?
Likely replacement/rufurbishment cost?
| |
| Fray Bentos 2006-02-19, 12:21 pm |
|
<nigel.l.jones@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1140362302.479291.230420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I have a UK Bosch front loading WFK2801 washing machine. It's around 8
> years old.
>
> I've had a few minor issues over the years - limescale and blown heater
> elements, but it's basically worked fine.
>
> It's been working fine until yesterday when I noticed a slight rasping
> in (sparking? rubbing?) noise whilst spinning, but I ignored it. Wash
> finished fine.
>
> Today I put some clothes on for a rinse, and whilst the cycle completed
> fine, the clothes were sodden. Further investigation showed the drum
> would not rotate.
>
> I dismantled the machine hoping to find a broken drive belt, but no..
> - drive belt intact
> - no water leaks (shorting)
> - no burning evidence
>
> I de-scaled various tubes etc I've done before that relate to
> pumping/emptying & pressure sensing, which made no difference.
>
> When the machines tries to spin, I can hear a relay clicking where I
> would expect the drum to rotate. No error codes are shown (which has
> happened before when the drum water/pressure sensor got blocked)
>
> I removed the motor (easy, just 2 bolts + cables). Marked up as
> - FHP motors
> 007 112 G 63 083480
> 0799 083971 600 N4 2422
> 230/240V 50Hz Isok1.B/F
> Ac - Elektronik
> FRW-Nr 304 7809 AA0
>
> No idea what those numbers mean (apart from obvious)
>
> Electrically there's a flat 7 pin connector. Top to bottom :
> yellow, yellow, -> go to shaft at end of motor - measure speed?
> blue ? near brushes
> , gray -> motor brushes
> , black ? near brushes
> , brown ? near brushes?
> ,greeny yellow? disappear near brushes
>
> What would you recommend to TEST the motor is at fault or not?
> Any ideas for other likely causes?
> Likely replacement/rufurbishment cost?
>
new brushes are needed if it is anything like my hotpoint.
that wouldn't spin, but washed normally.
couple of quid for mine
| |
| The3rd Earl Of Derby 2006-02-19, 12:21 pm |
| nigel.l.jones@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a UK Bosch front loading WFK2801 washing machine. It's around
> 8 years old.
>
> I've had a few minor issues over the years - limescale and blown
> heater elements, but it's basically worked fine.
>
> It's been working fine until yesterday when I noticed a slight rasping
> in (sparking? rubbing?) noise whilst spinning, but I ignored it. Wash
> finished fine.
>
> Today I put some clothes on for a rinse, and whilst the cycle
> completed fine, the clothes were sodden. Further investigation showed
> the drum would not rotate.
>
> I dismantled the machine hoping to find a broken drive belt, but no..
> - drive belt intact
> - no water leaks (shorting)
> - no burning evidence
>
> I de-scaled various tubes etc I've done before that relate to
> pumping/emptying & pressure sensing, which made no difference.
>
> When the machines tries to spin, I can hear a relay clicking where I
> would expect the drum to rotate. No error codes are shown (which has
> happened before when the drum water/pressure sensor got blocked)
>
> I removed the motor (easy, just 2 bolts + cables). Marked up as
> - FHP motors
> 007 112 G 63 083480
> 0799 083971 600 N4 2422
> 230/240V 50Hz Isok1.B/F
> Ac - Elektronik
> FRW-Nr 304 7809 AA0
>
> No idea what those numbers mean (apart from obvious)
>
> Electrically there's a flat 7 pin connector. Top to bottom :
> yellow, yellow, -> go to shaft at end of motor - measure speed?
> blue ? near brushes
> , gray -> motor brushes
> , black ? near brushes
> , brown ? near brushes?
> ,greeny yellow? disappear near brushes
>
> What would you recommend to TEST the motor is at fault or not?
> Any ideas for other likely causes?
> Likely replacement/rufurbishment cost?
Take brush out if they're less than half inch in replace them.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
| |
| Nigel Molesworth 2006-02-19, 1:21 pm |
| On 19 Feb 2006 07:18:22 -0800, nigel.l.jones@gmail.com wrote:
>Further investigation showed the drum would not rotate.
On its own, or by hand?
--
Nigel M
| |
| nigel.l.jones@gmail.com 2006-02-19, 3:21 pm |
| Ok, I removed the brushes.
There's a plastic housing around the brush. within that there's a metal
tube (rectangular) which contains the actual carbon brush. The brush
itself is still springy but with nothing pushing against it, protudes
by only around 2-4mm.
I'll also check the power connector to check the machine is trying to
run the motor (anyone know which pins, otherwise I'll work it out......)
| |
| Nigel Molesworth 2006-02-19, 3:21 pm |
| On 19 Feb 2006 10:26:42 -0800, nigel.l.jones@gmail.com wrote:
>I'll also check the power connector to check the machine is trying to
>run the motor (anyone know which pins, otherwise I'll work it out......)
BANG!
--
Nigel M
| |
|
|
nigel.l.jones@gmail.com wrote:
> Ok, I removed the brushes.
>
> There's a plastic housing around the brush. within that there's a metal
> tube (rectangular) which contains the actual carbon brush. The brush
> itself is still springy but with nothing pushing against it, protudes
> by only around 2-4mm.
>
> I'll also check the power connector to check the machine is trying to
> run the motor (anyone know which pins, otherwise I'll work it out......)
It's worth the monetary bet to wager that it's the brushes on your
electric motor
to fault.
Google for new brushes - some sites even tell you how long the carbon
part
is and I'll bet it is in the 25mm ballpark range (not 2 to 4mm).
Just replaced the brushes on our Zanussi washing machine - the parts
cost =A326
(gulp). A tenner each brush, plus delivery, plus vat.
But having used the machine for several years trouble free it pales
into
insignificance.
Since you probably will renew your brushes here's my tip: make sure you
use an
old toothbrush and remove as much carbon dust as is reasonably
practical
from around the motor.
On a previous machine I had replaced worn brushes two or three times
and then
we had a flashover problem one time when the accumulated carbon dust
proved
an easy route for the power to take.
So clean it out (and perhaps use an air line outside to dislodge any
further
particles. Dust mask time I'm sure.
Also, since you've probably dismantled a good part of the machine it
isn't too much
additional bother to check the sump for coins, underwired bra wires (if
nothing
else does I'll bet that this comment draws replies :-) and other
debris.
Clean out the inlet water filters too.
HTH
Mungo
P=2ES. When my mother in law moved house the tenants leaving her new
property
left the washing machine as part of the house sale.
Since she already had recently purchased a new machine, she didn't want
to
use the machine left, so I volunteered to take it off her hands.
A couple of T pieces and valves and a morning's endeavours meant that I
could
install the second machine in our garage beside the sink already there.
Result: two washing machines for SWMBO to use (sexist comment ladies,
I'm
kidding of course; take the wife with me everywhere so I don't have to
kiss
her goodbye ;-)
I'm sure others in a similar fortunate position would agree that having
a second
machine is a godsend when there's a family to deal with. Staying in the
West
of Scotland there's no water meter to contend with (before I get
further flack
from the environmental brigade).
Recommended if you've got the space to spare.
| |
| The3rd Earl Of Derby 2006-02-19, 4:21 pm |
| nigel.l.jones@gmail.com wrote:
> Ok, I removed the brushes.
>
> There's a plastic housing around the brush. within that there's a
> metal tube (rectangular) which contains the actual carbon brush. The
> brush itself is still springy but with nothing pushing against it,
> protudes by only around 2-4mm.
>
Sounds like the brushes do need replacing, if the springs are at full
lenght and the brushes are showing 2-4mm from edge of housing then I would
suspect these need changing.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
| |
| mrcheerful 2006-02-19, 6:21 pm |
|
<nigel.l.jones@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1140362302.479291.230420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I have a UK Bosch front loading WFK2801 washing machine. It's around 8
> years old.
>
> I've had a few minor issues over the years - limescale and blown heater
> elements, but it's basically worked fine.
>
> It's been working fine until yesterday when I noticed a slight rasping
> in (sparking? rubbing?) noise whilst spinning, but I ignored it. Wash
> finished fine.
>
> Today I put some clothes on for a rinse, and whilst the cycle completed
> fine, the clothes were sodden. Further investigation showed the drum
> would not rotate.
>
> I dismantled the machine hoping to find a broken drive belt, but no..
> - drive belt intact
> - no water leaks (shorting)
> - no burning evidence
>
> I de-scaled various tubes etc I've done before that relate to
> pumping/emptying & pressure sensing, which made no difference.
>
> When the machines tries to spin, I can hear a relay clicking where I
> would expect the drum to rotate. No error codes are shown (which has
> happened before when the drum water/pressure sensor got blocked)
>
> I removed the motor (easy, just 2 bolts + cables). Marked up as
> - FHP motors
> 007 112 G 63 083480
> 0799 083971 600 N4 2422
> 230/240V 50Hz Isok1.B/F
> Ac - Elektronik
> FRW-Nr 304 7809 AA0
>
> No idea what those numbers mean (apart from obvious)
>
> Electrically there's a flat 7 pin connector. Top to bottom :
> yellow, yellow, -> go to shaft at end of motor - measure speed?
> blue ? near brushes
> , gray -> motor brushes
> , black ? near brushes
> , brown ? near brushes?
> ,greeny yellow? disappear near brushes
>
> What would you recommend to TEST the motor is at fault or not?
> Any ideas for other likely causes?
> Likely replacement/rufurbishment cost?
>
You need a new brush/housing assembly, if it is the same as my bosch you buy
the whole end of the motor, it is about 80 quid or so, very easy to fit
though.
mrcheerful
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-19, 6:21 pm |
| We have 2 washers and 2 dryers, and honestly I would never go back to
just one of each. As a matter of fact since you can wash clothes twice
as fast as drying them I wouldnt mind having 4 dryers paired with 2
washers.
my mom moved in with us so I bought the second pair of machines, mom
died but the machines live on and are very convenient,
since the machines are getting old if one breaks its no big deal we
have redundancy
| |
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|
|
| On 19 Feb,
"Mungo" <mungoh@gmail.com> wrote:
> P.S. When my mother in law moved house the tenants leaving her new
> property
> left the washing machine as part of the house sale.
> Since she already had recently purchased a new machine, she didn't want
> to
> use the machine left, so I volunteered to take it off her hands.
> A couple of T pieces and valves and a morning's endeavours meant that I
> could
> install the second machine in our garage beside the sink already there.
> Result: two washing machines for SWMBO to use (sexist comment ladies,
> I'm
> kidding of course; take the wife with me everywhere so I don't have to
> kiss
> her goodbye ;-)
> I'm sure others in a similar fortunate position would agree that having
> a second
I kept my old (Hotpoint) machine about 15 years ago as a plumbed in reserve.
We used it to rinse swimming gear, to make sure it was servicable.
Twice it has proved to be faulty at the same time as the newer machine has
failed.
It now works as well, if not better than the new (expensive AEG) machine,
after the disintegrating concrete block attached to the drum has been
replaced with redundant roofing lead.
Spares are still readily available at a sensible price (unlike the AEG).
If you've got the space, go for a spare. It saves having to bodge quickly to
get out of the mire when SWMBO demands an instantly working machine.
--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply
| |
| nigel.l.jones@gmail.com 2006-02-22, 8:21 pm |
| Ok, so I'm stumped.
I got some new brushes and fitted them. I replaced the motor and am
sure I was't imaganing the drum spinning for a few minutes.
I tried again later and nothing. (Also no smells/bangs etc).
I figured the belt had come off, or brushes slipped off. Nope.
So the brushes are now long (1").
Looking down the shaft I can see the commutator.
I can check resistance between the commutator and each brush terminal
which proves the brushes are touching commutator.
I'm seeing about 5 ohms between the two brush terminals (sounds low -
shouldn't this include resistance of the armature?)
The brushes are at aprox 180deg on the commutator
Going back to the wiring again I see a 6 way connector
1. Yellowey green
2. brown
3. black
4. gray
5. blue
6.yellow
7. yellow
I think 6,7 go to something on the shaft - presumably a speed sensor -
200 ohms
4,5 go to the brushes - 4.5 ohms
2,3,1 go into the motor 1:3 0.5 ohm, 2:3 1 ohm 1:2 0.5 ohm ?
No other connections between above
Spot the error?
| |
| powerstation 2006-02-22, 10:21 pm |
|
<nigel.l.jones@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1140651084.537111.125480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Ok, so I'm stumped.
>
> I got some new brushes and fitted them. I replaced the motor and am
> sure I was't imaganing the drum spinning for a few minutes.
>
> I tried again later and nothing. (Also no smells/bangs etc).
>
> I figured the belt had come off, or brushes slipped off. Nope.
>
> So the brushes are now long (1").
>
> Looking down the shaft I can see the commutator.
> I can check resistance between the commutator and each brush terminal
> which proves the brushes are touching commutator.
>
> I'm seeing about 5 ohms between the two brush terminals (sounds low -
> shouldn't this include resistance of the armature?)
>
> The brushes are at aprox 180deg on the commutator
>
> Going back to the wiring again I see a 6 way connector
> 1. Yellowey green
> 2. brown
> 3. black
> 4. gray
> 5. blue
> 6.yellow
> 7. yellow
>
> I think 6,7 go to something on the shaft - presumably a speed sensor -
> 200 ohms
> 4,5 go to the brushes - 4.5 ohms
> 2,3,1 go into the motor 1:3 0.5 ohm, 2:3 1 ohm 1:2 0.5 ohm ?
> No other connections between above
>
> Spot the error?
>
Is the machine not spinning on the spin cycle or do you mean no motor action
even on wash ?
Peter
| |
| Roger Wareham 2006-02-23, 6:21 am |
| nigel.l.jones@gmail.com wrote:
> Ok, so I'm stumped.
>
> I got some new brushes and fitted them. I replaced the motor and am
> sure I was't imaganing the drum spinning for a few minutes.
A common cause of 'no spin but everything else OK' faults in various
makes of washing machine (I don't know if this applies to Bosch) is the
motor controller PCB usually mounted close to the bottom of the machine.
Check for burnt out tracks and repair by soldering a short piece of wire
across the gap.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
| |
| nigel.l.jones@gmail.com 2006-02-23, 6:21 pm |
| No motor action at all...
There's no motor PCB - cable goes straight to motor from controller.
The controller initially looks slightly black in one area, but a little
wipe and it looks clean - no clear sign of damage.
Actually I'm a bit stumped so it's probably
a) simple mistake - =A360+ callout/fix?
b) bust motor =A3lots
c) bust controller =A3150?
or get something like a Bosch WFO2467 for =A3271 or so....
This is now looking tempting given the machine is probably 7-8 years
old.. better washes, all new parts etc etc.
| |
| nigel.l.jones@gmail.com 2006-02-25, 9:21 am |
| Ok, so I got an expert in. I'd sorted the motor fine (whether it needed
it was debatable, but the brushes were only a couple mm long so they
would have need doing soon)
The pressure vessel was blocked, so the controller wouldn't start the
spin!
All fixed for =A330 which I think was great..... at least I know for nex
ttime (I should have thought.....)
| |
| glynny007@tiscali.co.uk 2006-02-27, 7:21 am |
|
nigel.l.jones@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a UK Bosch front loading WFK2801 washing machine. It's around 8
> years old.
>
> I've had a few minor issues over the years - limescale and blown heater
> elements, but it's basically worked fine.
>
> It's been working fine until yesterday when I noticed a slight rasping
> in (sparking? rubbing?) noise whilst spinning, but I ignored it. Wash
> finished fine.
>
> Today I put some clothes on for a rinse, and whilst the cycle completed
> fine, the clothes were sodden. Further investigation showed the drum
> would not rotate.
>
> I dismantled the machine hoping to find a broken drive belt, but no..
> - drive belt intact
> - no water leaks (shorting)
> - no burning evidence
>
> I de-scaled various tubes etc I've done before that relate to
> pumping/emptying & pressure sensing, which made no difference.
>
> When the machines tries to spin, I can hear a relay clicking where I
> would expect the drum to rotate. No error codes are shown (which has
> happened before when the drum water/pressure sensor got blocked)
>
> I removed the motor (easy, just 2 bolts + cables). Marked up as
> - FHP motors
> 007 112 G 63 083480
> 0799 083971 600 N4 2422
> 230/240V 50Hz Isok1.B/F
> Ac - Elektronik
> FRW-Nr 304 7809 AA0
>
> No idea what those numbers mean (apart from obvious)
>
> Electrically there's a flat 7 pin connector. Top to bottom :
> yellow, yellow, -> go to shaft at end of motor - measure speed?
> blue ? near brushes
> , gray -> motor brushes
> , black ? near brushes
> , brown ? near brushes?
> ,greeny yellow? disappear near brushes
>
> What would you recommend to TEST the motor is at fault or not?
> Any ideas for other likely causes?
> Likely replacement/rufurbishment cost?
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