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Bathroom Floor Replacement Questions
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| Jim McLaughlin 2006-02-26, 12:21 am |
| This might be kind of long, but I'd appreciate you reading it through.
Thanks.
I am going to bite the bullet and again replace a bathroom floor in May.
I have replaced the top surface once, about 18 - 20 years ago when I didn't
know what I was doing. Because I didn't then know what I was doing, I need
to do it again. I've gained a lot of knowledge since, but am always on
the look out for more.
Smallish bathroom, about 5' x 8".
Previously had really poor condition sheet vinyl over a particle board
underlayment.
Previously, I pulled the toilet and stored it in the back yard ( makes a
great planter!)
Stripped all the sheet vinyl from the floor up to the cabinate base, and the
shower pan. Removed any lingering vinyl adhesive with solvent, stripping
down to the particle board underlayment.
When I first replaced it, on the advice of the folks at Color Tile, I did
small tile (12" x 12" sheets) of 1" x 1" tiles. Thin set with a good notch
( 1/2 inch). Right over he particle board.
Surprise. After a lot of years of wear, many of the tiles are coming up.
Especially where there is some drip / moisture from the shower door when the
door is open.
Long to short, I have to pull all the tiles and re do.
I know I have a shower door problem re leaks. That I can and will deal
with before I do the floor. So, please ignore any shower door leak issues.
I also have a wierd bath room door access issue. The access from the master
bedroom to the bath is a pocket door. The pocket door didn't work when I
bought the house 30 yaers ago and still doesn't. The bedroom floor wall to
wall carpet. The bath has the afore mentioned tile. The pocket door is
both off its tarcks and won't clear either the WTW carpet, or the tile.
I am reluctantly willing to pull the wallboard off the bedroom side of the
pocket door to fix. I am not willing to pull the wallboard off the bath
side of the wall because that forms part of the tiled ( by the builder)
shower surround, and I'd really not want to have to replace the shower
walls. The tile on the walls still seem in good shape, and no leaks, etc
down into the family room below. My theory is if it ain't broke, don't fix
it.
I did have one leak onto the tile floor, from the toulet, after I did the
tile. This was about a year ago next June. Inside the toilet the
friggin' float arm broke off . The inlet valve thereafter opened, and the
inlet toilet valve kept allowing water into the tank. The tank totally
overflowed, with awter coming out of the lid. Of courese I was at work,
and when I got home after "X" hours, here was water everywhere. I sut off
the safety valve, got towels and the hop vac, and pulled up a lot of water
Wallboard on the ceiling of the family oom, under the bathroom, took a hit.
Oddly, the floor in the bath did not appear to suffer any additional
problems, no tile de laminating, etc. No where near any datile damage near
the toilet from the one time flood as compared to the damage by the leaky
shower door.
So, my questions are:
1. Whats the conventional wisdom regarding thicknesses of underlayment /
underfloor and cement board in a bathroom before a tile application?
Is it 3/4 ply (outdoor ply, marine ply, regulay ply, whatever?) plus 1/
4" cement board.
Is it 1/2 inch and 1/2 inch?
Is it /8 and 3/8?
What has worked for you?
My gut thought is that I need at least 1/2" ply plus whatever.
I also think I have to do an autopsy of the current floor to find out
how much room I have inder it, i.e. I need to know the thickness of the
present particle board underlayment.
2. The Orange Borg sells lots of 1/4" cement board. Lurking here, I read
a lot of negatives about cement board for bathroom underlayment. I hear a
lot of positives about hardyboard as an underlayment. Around here
(Portland, Or.) here there is a lot of favorable comment about Hardieplank
siding as a replacement for the LP or whoever crappy mold and nushrom
growing exterior siding.. Same company? Parallel product? Personal
experiences with hardy board vs. cement board?
3. Because this bathroom is so small, I like the look of the small tile (1"
x 1"). Is there any longvity benefit to the larger (6" x 6" or 12" x 12")
tile. I can cut the small stuff with a tile nibbler. I think I'd need a
tile saw for the 6x6 or 12x12. Any tile installation requires tile
cutting.
4. Underfloor heat. I have gas fired forced hot air. There is one vent in
the bath room floor. It gives adequate haet when I showere about 06:30 am,
as the set back thermostat kicks the heat up about 06:00. Still whil the
bathroom air is warm the floor is cold.
I have seen a lot of Home Time / This Old House shows with electric (not
water, electric) grids under the tile for heat.
Systems, brands, thoughts, etc.
Thanks for reading this maybe too long missive. I really would
appreciate your comments and suggestions.
--
Jim McLaughlin
Reply address is deliberately munged.
If you really need to reply directly, try:
jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom
And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
address.
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-26, 12:21 am |
| 20 years for vinyl tile is awesome! Congrats!
I would pull all the old floor and use cement board and ceramic tile.
But honestly isnt it time to look at the plumbing? How old is your
home? Drains plastic or metal?
You might be better off doing a complete bathroom redo. Since you home
is getting older
Any plans on selling someday?
If so do a job that will appeal to others!
Things like GFCI outlets, exhaust fan, additional heat, floor drain so
NEXT toilet overflow just goes down the sewer
Some put in a shower that has no step over, that way shower drain
drains entire bathroom in flood situation.
just some points to ponder
| |
| Jim McLaughlin 2006-02-26, 1:21 am |
| Dang it, I hate it when I am the first responder to my own posts!
Three other issues / questions?
5. I know I have to pull the old floor tile. I think I pull it
separately from the particle board. Thoughts?
6. I know I have to pull out all the old partical board. I can pull nails
easily. Any other thoughts on punning the particle board?
I figue I need puller bars anfd such, and not a circular saw or Saws
All, as I want to get the particle board up without cutting into the
underlying joists.
7 The shower pan is a massve, heavy soro of tile feling and not fiberglass
thing which I think is a kind of ceramic / cement artificial stone.
I really don't want to replace it, or remove it and reinstall it,
How d butt he new pl underlayment and cement board / hardyboad up
against t / under it?
I have this sinking 9bad pun) feeling that I have to wait until I do the
floor autopsy befor I know haw t do that, but I'd appreciat any "heads ups"
flks can provide.\
Looking forward to everybodyss intelligent suggestions as I approach
this.
Tahnks again in advance.
--
Jim McLaughlin
Reply address is deliberately munged.
If you really need to reply directly, try:
jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom
And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
address.
"Jim McLaughlin" <jim.mclaughlin> wrote in message
news:qrydnTZsR8UYv5zZRVn-qA@comcast.com...
> This might be kind of long, but I'd appreciate you reading it through.
> Thanks.
>
> I am going to bite the bullet and again replace a bathroom floor in May.
>
> I have replaced the top surface once, about 18 - 20 years ago when I
didn't
> know what I was doing. Because I didn't then know what I was doing, I
need
> to do it again. I've gained a lot of knowledge since, but am always on
> the look out for more.
>
> Smallish bathroom, about 5' x 8".
>
> Previously had really poor condition sheet vinyl over a particle board
> underlayment.
>
> Previously, I pulled the toilet and stored it in the back yard ( makes a
> great planter!)
>
> Stripped all the sheet vinyl from the floor up to the cabinate base, and
the
> shower pan. Removed any lingering vinyl adhesive with solvent, stripping
> down to the particle board underlayment.
>
> When I first replaced it, on the advice of the folks at Color Tile, I did
> small tile (12" x 12" sheets) of 1" x 1" tiles. Thin set with a good
notch
> ( 1/2 inch). Right over he particle board.
>
> Surprise. After a lot of years of wear, many of the tiles are coming
up.
> Especially where there is some drip / moisture from the shower door when
the
> door is open.
>
> Long to short, I have to pull all the tiles and re do.
>
> I know I have a shower door problem re leaks. That I can and will deal
> with before I do the floor. So, please ignore any shower door leak
issues.
>
> I also have a wierd bath room door access issue. The access from the
master
> bedroom to the bath is a pocket door. The pocket door didn't work when
I
> bought the house 30 yaers ago and still doesn't. The bedroom floor wall
to
> wall carpet. The bath has the afore mentioned tile. The pocket door is
> both off its tarcks and won't clear either the WTW carpet, or the tile.
>
> I am reluctantly willing to pull the wallboard off the bedroom side of the
> pocket door to fix. I am not willing to pull the wallboard off the bath
> side of the wall because that forms part of the tiled ( by the builder)
> shower surround, and I'd really not want to have to replace the shower
> walls. The tile on the walls still seem in good shape, and no leaks, etc
> down into the family room below. My theory is if it ain't broke, don't
fix
> it.
>
> I did have one leak onto the tile floor, from the toulet, after I did the
> tile. This was about a year ago next June. Inside the toilet the
> friggin' float arm broke off . The inlet valve thereafter opened, and
the
> inlet toilet valve kept allowing water into the tank. The tank totally
> overflowed, with awter coming out of the lid. Of courese I was at work,
> and when I got home after "X" hours, here was water everywhere. I sut
off
> the safety valve, got towels and the hop vac, and pulled up a lot of
water
> Wallboard on the ceiling of the family oom, under the bathroom, took a
hit.
> Oddly, the floor in the bath did not appear to suffer any additional
> problems, no tile de laminating, etc. No where near any datile damage
near
> the toilet from the one time flood as compared to the damage by the leaky
> shower door.
>
> So, my questions are:
>
> 1. Whats the conventional wisdom regarding thicknesses of underlayment /
> underfloor and cement board in a bathroom before a tile application?
>
> Is it 3/4 ply (outdoor ply, marine ply, regulay ply, whatever?) plus 1/
> 4" cement board.
>
> Is it 1/2 inch and 1/2 inch?
>
> Is it /8 and 3/8?
>
> What has worked for you?
>
> My gut thought is that I need at least 1/2" ply plus whatever.
>
> I also think I have to do an autopsy of the current floor to find out
> how much room I have inder it, i.e. I need to know the thickness of the
> present particle board underlayment.
>
> 2. The Orange Borg sells lots of 1/4" cement board. Lurking here, I
read
> a lot of negatives about cement board for bathroom underlayment. I hear
a
> lot of positives about hardyboard as an underlayment. Around here
> (Portland, Or.) here there is a lot of favorable comment about
Hardieplank
> siding as a replacement for the LP or whoever crappy mold and nushrom
> growing exterior siding.. Same company? Parallel product? Personal
> experiences with hardy board vs. cement board?
>
> 3. Because this bathroom is so small, I like the look of the small tile
(1"
> x 1"). Is there any longvity benefit to the larger (6" x 6" or 12" x 12")
> tile. I can cut the small stuff with a tile nibbler. I think I'd need
a
> tile saw for the 6x6 or 12x12. Any tile installation requires tile
> cutting.
>
> 4. Underfloor heat. I have gas fired forced hot air. There is one vent
in
> the bath room floor. It gives adequate haet when I showere about 06:30 am,
> as the set back thermostat kicks the heat up about 06:00. Still whil the
> bathroom air is warm the floor is cold.
>
> I have seen a lot of Home Time / This Old House shows with electric (not
> water, electric) grids under the tile for heat.
>
> Systems, brands, thoughts, etc.
>
> Thanks for reading this maybe too long missive. I really would
> appreciate your comments and suggestions.
> --
> Jim McLaughlin
>
> Reply address is deliberately munged.
> If you really need to reply directly, try:
> jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom
>
> And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
> address.
>
>
| |
| Jim McLaughlin 2006-02-26, 1:21 am |
|
--
Jim McLaughlin
Reply address is deliberately munged.
If you really need to reply directly, try:
jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom
And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
address.
<hallerb@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1140927049.707292.44880@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> 20 years for vinyl tile is awesome! Congrats!
>
No, it was sheet vinyl, not tile. I pulled it and replaced with "small
ceramic tile (1"x1").
> I would pull all the old floor and use cement board and ceramic tile.
>
Yeah, thats what I plan, question is what brand / kind of cement board.
> But honestly isnt it time to look at the plumbing? How old is your
> home?
Home built in 1972 as far as I acn tell. I am third owner, bought in
1980.
Drains plastic or metal?
>
Metal.
Supply pipes are galvanized, not copper.
> You might be better off doing a complete bathroom redo. Since you home
> is getting older
>
> Any plans on selling someday?
>
If so do a job that will appeal to others!
>
> Things like GFCI outlets, exhaust fan,
>
Has GRCI I insalled, both at the local plug in boxes plus GFCI breakers.
I also use suspenders and a belt on my pants. <G>
Has exhaust fan in general part of bathroom.
..additional heat, floor drain so NEXT toilet overflow just goes down the
sewer
>
Floor Drain -- now thats a thought. Depends upon what the floor autopsy
shows when I pull the particle board. The incident last summervwas the only
toilet tank overflow, so like the 100 yaer flood palin, the next oilet takn
overflow may be 20 years away...
> Some put in a shower that has no step over, that way shower drain
> drains entire bathroom in flood situation.
>
Yep. I agree with you that if I was starting om a clean sheet of paper,
wprkimg onlty with bare studs in the room, a no step shower would be
good.ah. I don'ty really want to do the pull out of the cutrent shower pan,
or pitch the floor for the shower drain to act as a floor drain.
See my second post about pocket door from bedroom and carpet issues.
> just some points to ponder
>
Good points. Thats why I asked. Los of folks have different perspectives
and experiences, and I'd rather ask now then after i really fouled things
up.
Thanks.
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| Goedjn 2006-02-27, 2:21 pm |
|
THe pocket door should work fine if you can get it
back on it's tracks. If it's still obstructed by the
carpet and/or tile, you just cut a half inch off the
bottom of it.
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