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Prepping a home to sell
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| I am about accept a transfer at work and we're going to have to sell
our home. No biggie, I was ready to move anyway.
We live in an area with a fairly hot market, 2 homes near me moved in 3
days. My house is in ok condition, it's not a showpiece. Old, solid,
etc. Anyway, here are my questions. No flames, this is more of an
informal survey.
1) The attic was painted purple by the previous owners. I've cleaned
most of it out (it's about 800sq ft). Should I paint it - or at least
prime it - a less obnoxious color? I could finish it in 4 or 5 hours.
When we first looked at the house I thought "jeez, that is ugly".
2) Kitchen. It's old, the cabinets are sorta cheap and while they look
ok they aren't great. The SO wants to replace them, I'm really not up
for a kitchen redo if I have to be out of here in 3 months. I was
thinking of just cleaning them as best as I can, repainting the
kitchen, etc. The kitchen is semi bright, it's well light.
3) Wallpaper. Gawd I hate this mess (esp when it's old as dirt). I'm
now redoing the bathrooms. One of the bathrooms has a wall of wallpaper
that isn't responding to any of the removers. Would it be tacky to just
paint over it? It's smooth and there are no seams that are peeling,
it's just - ugly.
That's it, thanks.
| |
| scott21230@gmail.com 2006-02-26, 2:27 pm |
| The problem I see with a lot of the stuff you are doing is that if the
prospective buyer doesn't like yout tastes, they aren't going to pay
extra for new stuff that they don't like. However, I'd probably prime
the attic and clean the kitchen cabinets real good. #2 is hard to say
without a pic. And painting over wallpaper is a poor practice, but
common. Actualy wallpaper in a bathroom period is a poor practive. It
will peel eventually.
| |
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| I was going to prime the attic with white primer. To me it isn't a
"let's wow 'em" but to remove the "damn, that is one ugly color"
thought.  The other rooms are going to be painted standard colors,
offwhites and the like. I looked at a house last week that had walls
that had been painted dark colors then "sponged" with lighter colors.
Every room - and they had just done it.
I just read about using vinegar and hot water to remove wallpaper, I'll
give that a go. I hate wallpaper anyway, whoever put it in these
bathrooms should be smacked. Neighbors had theirs done, even with a
vent fan it peeled in several years (I questioned the quality of the
install, but paint at least holds up a while).
| |
| marktx2006 2006-02-26, 3:29 pm |
| I bought a steam iron from walmart the kind you iron your clothes
with. I filled it with tap water ,and steamed my wall paper off worked
great.messy but works. you can reat a wall paper steamer.My way worked
an the irons are cheap enough to throw away when they break.
other then that it is another tool in my work shop /garage .
| |
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| On 26 Feb 2006 09:53:06 -0800, "cas" <castufari@gmail.com> wrote:
>1) The attic was painted purple by the previous owners. I've cleaned
>most of it out (it's about 800sq ft). Should I paint it - or at least
>prime it - a less obnoxious color? I could finish it in 4 or 5 hours.
>When we first looked at the house I thought "jeez, that is ugly".
If I were you, I'd paint it a lighter color, for sure. If nothing
else, it'll make the space look larger.
>2) Kitchen. It's old, the cabinets are sorta cheap and while they look
>ok they aren't great. The SO wants to replace them, I'm really not up
>for a kitchen redo if I have to be out of here in 3 months. I was
>thinking of just cleaning them as best as I can, repainting the
>kitchen, etc. The kitchen is semi bright, it's well light.
I agree, just clean them really well. Maybe change out the handles
and drawer pulls if new ones would spiff up the cabinets.
Just don't overprice the house; make sure the house is value priced so
it'll sell. A friend with a similar kind of kitchen has now had to
drop her price $50k after 62 people went through the house over the
last 6 months and not one offer.
>3) Wallpaper. Gawd I hate this mess (esp when it's old as dirt). I'm
>now redoing the bathrooms. One of the bathrooms has a wall of wallpaper
>that isn't responding to any of the removers. Would it be tacky to just
>paint over it? It's smooth and there are no seams that are peeling,
>it's just - ugly.
*DO NOT* paint over the wallpaper. If you do, you will be consigned
to Dante's fifth circle of hell or even circle 9.3. Actually, have
you really exhausted all removal possibilities? Have you scored the
paper itself and rented a steamer? That *ALWAYS* works if the
water/vinegar (or DIF) soak isn't speedy enough for you.
You may think that just painting over the paper will be the perfect
solution, but paint is wet and often will lift up loose areas of the
paper underneath, creating a no-longer smooth surface, so best to just
remove the wallpaper.
| |
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| It has been my experience that you will rarely get your money back. A house
will sell for the going rate in your neighborhood. Imagine if you spent time
and money fixing it up and the new owners just scraped everything you did.
"cas" <castufari@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1140976386.525570.145680@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I am about accept a transfer at work and we're going to have to sell
> our home. No biggie, I was ready to move anyway.
>
> We live in an area with a fairly hot market, 2 homes near me moved in 3
> days. My house is in ok condition, it's not a showpiece. Old, solid,
> etc. Anyway, here are my questions. No flames, this is more of an
> informal survey.
>
> 1) The attic was painted purple by the previous owners. I've cleaned
> most of it out (it's about 800sq ft). Should I paint it - or at least
> prime it - a less obnoxious color? I could finish it in 4 or 5 hours.
> When we first looked at the house I thought "jeez, that is ugly".
>
> 2) Kitchen. It's old, the cabinets are sorta cheap and while they look
> ok they aren't great. The SO wants to replace them, I'm really not up
> for a kitchen redo if I have to be out of here in 3 months. I was
> thinking of just cleaning them as best as I can, repainting the
> kitchen, etc. The kitchen is semi bright, it's well light.
>
> 3) Wallpaper. Gawd I hate this mess (esp when it's old as dirt). I'm
> now redoing the bathrooms. One of the bathrooms has a wall of wallpaper
> that isn't responding to any of the removers. Would it be tacky to just
> paint over it? It's smooth and there are no seams that are peeling,
> it's just - ugly.
>
> That's it, thanks.
>
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-26, 4:21 pm |
| Well having sold a home just over a year ago....
People TODAY want move in condition! About 90% want NO WORK AT ALL! Now
if you want a fast sale then give them exactly that, a nice pristine
turn key home. If on the other hand your willing to wait endlessely for
the rare buyer who wants some work, then leave things as is, be
prepared for a BIG price hit, and a longer wait for the right buyer
Most max out the monthly mortage wanting more home and wouldnt have
money after the sale for remodeling, nor a desire to do it.
FIRST GET A HOME INSPECTION! Sure it will cost you $250 but it will
alert you to things buyers will be looking at and demanding a price
cut for repairs, lots of stuff can be fixed DIY, but once the buyers
home inspector checks things out they will demand receipts from
registered electricians, plumbers, etc.
so that flakey light switch or leaking drain can cost you a LOT
repaint the entire home in a nice neutral color like white or off
white, fix obvious things that are broke, and declutter the house, make
it look spacious even if you have to rent a storage bin somewhere
during the sale.
I heartily recommend you watch some shows like BUY ME, and HOUSE
HUNTERS, and designed to sell!
Just a few episodes will give you a idea of what your up against
I think your wife is right, redo the kitchen, thats the first thing
buyers look at, bad kitchen not interested
Oh yeah start preparing your disclosure list EVERYTHING that has ever
been a issue and not exactly perfect, if you leave anything out the
buyer can come back and sue you for the cost of repairs.
That happened to a old neighbor here. She sold her home and didnt
disclose tree roots she knew were in sewer. new owner moved in and had
clog Happened to call the same plumber , who had changed jobs but
snaked the sewer for the old owner.
old owner paid 8 grand for all new sewer line including under basement
floor all because she didnt disclose a year earlier it had been snaked.
I heard the original owner spent 2 grand on lawers fees too but dont
know for certain.
Things have changed GREATLY in real estate in the last 10 years, people
USED to look at homes and see possibilties
Now they want a PERFECT HOME
If your lucky the buyer will accept your home inspection and not pay
for a second one, but even if they do you will know what to expect...
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-26, 4:21 pm |
| Well having sold a home just over a year ago....
People TODAY want move in condition! About 90% want NO WORK AT ALL! Now
if you want a fast sale then give them exactly that, a nice pristine
turn key home. If on the other hand your willing to wait endlessely for
the rare buyer who wants some work, then leave things as is, be
prepared for a BIG price hit, and a longer wait for the right buyer
Most max out the monthly mortage wanting more home and wouldnt have
money after the sale for remodeling, nor a desire to do it.
FIRST GET A HOME INSPECTION! Sure it will cost you $250 but it will
alert you to things buyers will be looking at and demanding a price
cut for repairs, lots of stuff can be fixed DIY, but once the buyers
home inspector checks things out they will demand receipts from
registered electricians, plumbers, etc.
so that flakey light switch or leaking drain can cost you a LOT
repaint the entire home in a nice neutral color like white or off
white, fix obvious things that are broke, and declutter the house, make
it look spacious even if you have to rent a storage bin somewhere
during the sale.
I heartily recommend you watch some shows like BUY ME, and HOUSE
HUNTERS, and designed to sell!
Just a few episodes will give you a idea of what your up against
I think your wife is right, redo the kitchen, thats the first thing
buyers look at, bad kitchen not interested
Oh yeah start preparing your disclosure list EVERYTHING that has ever
been a issue and not exactly perfect, if you leave anything out the
buyer can come back and sue you for the cost of repairs.
That happened to a old neighbor here. She sold her home and didnt
disclose tree roots she knew were in sewer. new owner moved in and had
clog Happened to call the same plumber , who had changed jobs but
snaked the sewer for the old owner.
old owner paid 8 grand for all new sewer line including under basement
floor all because she didnt disclose a year earlier it had been snaked.
I heard the original owner spent 2 grand on lawers fees too but dont
know for certain.
Things have changed GREATLY in real estate in the last 10 years, people
USED to look at homes and see possibilties
Now they want a PERFECT HOME
If your lucky the buyer will accept your home inspection and not pay
for a second one, but even if they do you will know what to expect...
| |
| Edwin Pawlowski 2006-02-26, 4:21 pm |
|
"Ed" <friday@fishinthe.net> wrote in message
news:1203ug0b1cff03e@corp.supernews.com...
> It has been my experience that you will rarely get your money back. A
> house will sell for the going rate in your neighborhood. Imagine if you
> spent time and money fixing it up and the new owners just scraped
> everything you did.
Ever watch the TV show "Sell This House"? Amazing how much return there is
on a couple of hundred properly spent dollars. Who cares if the new owners
re-paint the day they move in, as long as they liked the house and paid top
dollar for it.
I'd pain the attic, spruce up the kitchen. I'd not replace cabinets, but
I'd paint, maybe add a shelf or planter if needed, maybe a new light fixture
or under cabinet light on the counter if you have none. Light, bright,
colors everywhere in the house.
Remove any clutter you may have lurking in the garage or basement, even some
furniture if crowded, to give the illusion of being a large house.
As for the going rate for the neighborhood, you want to be on top of it or
even exceed it if possible.
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-26, 5:21 pm |
| Lowes sells very nice low cost kitchen cabinets, that along with new
countertops and sink can pay back more than they cost.
a couple more great tv shows
Flip THIS house
Flip THAT house
the names similiar and both explain what sells and why
flip this house often says new kitchen 6 grand payback 13 grand in
added home value
| |
|
|
"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:MDnMf.16843$NS6.12760@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Ed" <friday@fishinthe.net> wrote in message
> news:1203ug0b1cff03e@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Ever watch the TV show "Sell This House"? Amazing how much return there
> is on a couple of hundred properly spent dollars.
True, but you aren't going to re-d9o a kitchen, cabinets and all, for a
couple of hundred.
| |
| Steven L Umbach 2006-02-26, 5:21 pm |
| I agree with ED. My neighbors keep their houses pretty nice and anytime
anyone moves just before the new owner comes in you find all the carpet and
flooring out on the curb with perfectly good appliances and sometimes even
cabinets. It seems like with cheap mortgage rates people have no problem
adding another 10 - 50 thousand on to get exactly what they want.
All the ROI for remodels is hype in my opinion propagated by those that can
profit from such. I have a perfectly fine kitchen with oak cabinets but
everything is not the latest or greatest. If I spent 40 thousand on a
kitchen remodel it "might" add 10 thousand to the value of my house. Where
you can get great ROI is when you can do the labor mostly yourself for areas
of the house that really need it such as an outdated master bath. One of our
neighbors bought every conceivable upgrade/option to their house when the
neighborhood just started believing the salesperson that they would recover
all the costs at resale and to their living experience. They took a huge
beating when they sold a few years later getting just a little more than the
same model without all the upgrades.
Of course when you sell a house it should be neat, clean, and uncluttered
and most everything in good working order. I am not saying that you should
not put any money into getting a house ready for sale. Light fixtures are
one way to really spruce things up for not much. Fresh paint is well worth
while if you can do it yourself if any rooms need it as are some
plants/flowers. If you have too much stuff [like me] consider renting some
storage space to get the junk out before putting it on the market. Good
luck. --- Steve
"Ed" <friday@fishinthe.net> wrote in message
news:1203ug0b1cff03e@corp.supernews.com...
> It has been my experience that you will rarely get your money back. A
> house will sell for the going rate in your neighborhood. Imagine if you
> spent time and money fixing it up and the new owners just scraped
> everything you did.
>
>
>
> "cas" <castufari@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1140976386.525570.145680@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-26, 6:21 pm |
| You dont want to over improve, but if the kitchen cabinets are shabby
nice low cost ones might be in order.
I suggest the original poster go look at a few homes in their existing
neighborhood that are for sale, lie and say your checking for a out of
state friend Check condition price etc, see what others are up to.
You can be checking out realtors while your at it, if your going to use
one to sell your home
the more educated you are + better sales!!
| |
| bambam@nospam.tnx 2006-02-26, 7:21 pm |
| On 26 Feb 2006 09:53:06 -0800, "cas" <castufari@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>1) The attic was painted purple by the previous owners. I've cleaned
>most of it out (it's about 800sq ft). Should I paint it - or at least
>prime it - a less obnoxious color? I could finish it in 4 or 5 hours.
>When we first looked at the house I thought "jeez, that is ugly".
Sure, prime it twice. "Ugly is a turn off."
>
>2) Kitchen. It's old, the cabinets are sorta cheap and while they look
>ok they aren't great. The SO wants to replace them, I'm really not up
>for a kitchen redo if I have to be out of here in 3 months. I was
>thinking of just cleaning them as best as I can, repainting the
>kitchen, etc. The kitchen is semi bright, it's well light.
Cleaning. Get rid of clutter. Nothing on the countertop for
showings. Make sure everything works. Going further than this
will bring ever diminishing returns.
>3) Wallpaper. Gawd I hate this mess (esp when it's old as dirt). I'm
>now redoing the bathrooms. One of the bathrooms has a wall of wallpaper
>that isn't responding to any of the removers. Would it be tacky to just
>paint over it? It's smooth and there are no seams that are peeling,
>it's just - ugly.
Get it off and repaint. Or, leave it.
If the market truly is hot, any house in a desireable neighbourhood
will sell, provided it's priced into the market.
Ours is a hot market right now ... even less desireable homes are
drawing six and seven bids and sales are generally for 110 to 120
percent of asking price within a couple of days.
Ken
| |
| BobK207 2006-02-26, 8:21 pm |
|
hallerb@aol.com wrote:
> You dont want to over improve, but if the kitchen cabinets are shabby
> nice low cost ones might be in order.
>
> I suggest the original poster go look at a few homes in their existing
> neighborhood that are for sale, lie and say your checking for a out of
> state friend Check condition price etc, see what others are up to.
>
> You can be checking out realtors while your at it, if your going to use
> one to sell your home
>
> the more educated you are + better sales!!
On the stuff you asked about
1) The attic
Prime w/ Zinsser Cover Stain & then top coat white or off white
http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductId=12
2) Kitchen.
Clean & repaint MAYBE new pulls.............keep it simple
3) Wallpaper.
Remove it or leave.
DO NOT PAINT OVER! Gives the impression that you cut corners & brings
up the question where else?
This stuff works like magic.....almost fun to use (in a sick sorta way)
http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=17
http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=18
http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=20
cheers
Bob
cheers
Bob
| |
| Edwin Pawlowski 2006-02-26, 8:21 pm |
|
"Steven L Umbach" <n9rou@n0-spam-for-me-comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> All the ROI for remodels is hype in my opinion propagated by those that
> can profit from such. I have a perfectly fine kitchen with oak cabinets
> but everything is not the latest or greatest. If I spent 40 thousand on a
> kitchen remodel it "might" add 10 thousand to the value of my house.
Sure, an expensive kitchen is a poor upgrade, but a few hundred bucks to
freshen a house is a sure winner. That has been proven many times.
| |
| Mark Lloyd 2006-02-26, 9:21 pm |
| On 26 Feb 2006 10:02:24 -0800, scott21230@gmail.com wrote:
>The problem I see with a lot of the stuff you are doing is that if the
>prospective buyer doesn't like yout tastes, they aren't going to pay
>extra for new stuff that they don't like. However, I'd probably prime
>the attic and clean the kitchen cabinets real good. #2 is hard to say
>without a pic. And painting over wallpaper is a poor practice, but
>common. Actualy wallpaper in a bathroom period is a poor practive. It
>will peel eventually.
The house I bought had wallpaper in the bathroom. Most of it peeled
off and there was more wallpaper under that.
There was also the stinky carpet...
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
| |
| Marc_G 2006-02-26, 10:21 pm |
| In article <1140982238.389982.229690@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
hallerb@aol.com says...
> Oh yeah start preparing your disclosure list EVERYTHING that has ever
> been a issue and not exactly perfect, if you leave anything out the
> buyer can come back and sue you for the cost of repairs.
>
>
>
This is a great reason to sell As-Is, if your market is at all hot.
We just sold a house in Columbia, MD over the summer. The house was in
great condition but the last thing we wanted was some disclosure issue
to come back and bite us later. In hot markets, most people sell as-is
for this reason.
In slow markets, such as where we bought, this isn't an option, though.
People will make an assumption that there's something wrong with the
home.
Customs vary widely from market to market, so rely on your sellers'
agent to advise you.
Marc
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-26, 11:21 pm |
| For whatever its worth I watched flip this house tonight, as part of
the flip renovations they installed a entire new kitchen cost 10 grand.
said it would return 20 grand in added value.
flip this house always installs new kitchens because they say they get
back more than they spend.
| |
|
| On 26 Feb 2006 18:17:07 -0800, "hallerb@aol.com" <hallerb@aol.com>
wrote:
>For whatever its worth I watched flip this house tonight, as part of
>the flip renovations they installed a entire new kitchen cost 10 grand.
>said it would return 20 grand in added value.
>
>flip this house always installs new kitchens because they say they get
>back more than they spend.
Master baths are next.... IMHO.
Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."
| |
| bambam@nospam.tnx 2006-02-27, 12:21 am |
| On 26 Feb 2006 18:17:07 -0800, "hallerb@aol.com" <hallerb@aol.com>
wrote:
>For whatever its worth I watched flip this house tonight, as part of
>the flip renovations they installed a entire new kitchen cost 10 grand.
>said it would return 20 grand in added value.
>
>flip this house always installs new kitchens because they say they get
>back more than they spend.
If it's on television, it must be true. And universally applicable.
Ken
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-27, 12:21 am |
| If it's on television, it must be true. And universally applicable.
Ken
Theres also flip that house, househunters and a bunch of other shows,
ALL indicate you get back more than you spend for a kitchen makeover.
so do realtors and friends that have sold homes. Heck I sold one and
redid the kitchen with lowes cabinets and new appliances. Nice but not
expensive
I had a couple realtors look at the home before i remodeled it. then
after I was done.Did most of the work myself and some friends. The
realtors had ZIP profit potential for whatever advice they offered.
What I mean is their buddies werent getting the remodeling job and they
knew that from the get go!
It was a LOT of work, spent $12,000 grossed about $30,000 more total.
So my 12 grand netted me a 18 grand profit.
| |
| Random Netizen 2006-02-27, 12:21 am |
| In article <1140982238.783252.178790@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, hallerb@aol.com
says...
>I think your wife is right, redo the kitchen, thats the first thing
>buyers look at, bad kitchen not interested
I don't think I'd go through the hassle of a kitchen reno just to boost the selling
price. Yes, it's _possible_ that there might be a profit from the renovation, but it's
also possible that the costs of the renovation won't significantly boost the selling
price, in which case you've taken on a huge PITA with no real return for your efforts.
Personally, I think that "before selling" renovations should be limited to basic things
like ensuring all necessary minor repairs are completed, painting the home a neutral
color, removing clutter, and cleaning everything thoroughly. These items are all
guaranteed to make a buyer more comfortable with the home and don't cost too much to do.
If you do a search on the net for "renovation payback", you'll find plenty of averages of
the cost recovery for various renovations. Very rarely are the percentages greater than
100%, meaning that you won't make back all of the money that you put into the renovation.
| |
|
| On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 03:14:40 GMT, bambam@nospam.tnx wrote:
>On 26 Feb 2006 18:17:07 -0800, "hallerb@aol.com" <hallerb@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>If it's on television, it must be true. And universally applicable.
>
>Ken
So "word of mouth" would not be applicable? It wasn't stated as true.
Your market may vary.
Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."
| |
| ccs>ikyr 2006-02-27, 10:21 am |
| > We live in an area with a fairly hot market, 2 homes near me moved in 3
> days.
IMHO, having just bought a house in a hot market a couple years ago
(DC), this could work for or against you depending on the part of the
market you're in. In DC, as another poster pointed out, people who can
pay, say, above the median home price in the market are usually looking
for a turn-key house -- everything upgraded and ready to go. OTOH, a
market like that has a lot of bottom feeders, like myself, who are
desperate to get a house that fits their budget. I was specifically
looking for a house with good bones, but old everything, because I
wanted my money to go toward paying for the neighborhood. The
renovations will come later. The house I bought has the original 1958
everything.
So, I guess I would recommend, as others have, cleaning and painting,
stripping the wallpaper, and leaving the structure of the kitchen as
is. If you're going to redo the kitchen, you'll have to redo it so it
suits the standards of the neighborhood, not do it on the cheap, or the
buyer won't value it much. Completely redoing a kitchen for $10K, as
seen on TV, in a hot market sounds like a pipe dream. You'd be lucky
to buy the *cabinets alone* that an upmarket buyer would expect for
that amount.
One other random thought: when shopping for a house, if I saw evidence
the homeowner had tried to do repairs or renovations that were beyond
his abilities, I generally turned around and walked out. You never
know what's hidden behind the walls that the owner tried to do himself
and screwed up. If you're going to do anything really serious, hire a
professional.
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-27, 11:21 am |
| OTOH, a
market like that has a lot of bottom feeders, like myself, who are
desperate to get a house that fits their budget. I was specifically
looking for a house with good bones, but old everything, because I
wanted my money to go toward paying for the neighborhood. The
renovations will come later. The house I bought has the original 1958
everything.
-----------------------------------------
Bottm feeders by description are looking for LOW prices
I guess it depends on what you want to sell your home for
| |
| ccs>ikyr 2006-02-27, 11:21 am |
| Everyone is looking for low prices, actually...
The point I was hoping to make is that hot markets are not just
populated with upscale buyers who will turn their noses up at an old
kitchen. There are plenty of bottom-feeders who will gladly buy a
house without a new kitchen.
The question is not what price you want to sell your house for. The
question is what will be the *net* gain from upgrading the house before
selling. My amateur assessment is the OP should either upgrade as
suits a turn-key buyer or leave it alone.
| |
| Banty 2006-02-27, 12:21 pm |
| In article <1141051126.339405.122070@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, ccs>ikyr
says...
>
>Everyone is looking for low prices, actually...
>
>The point I was hoping to make is that hot markets are not just
>populated with upscale buyers who will turn their noses up at an old
>kitchen. There are plenty of bottom-feeders who will gladly buy a
>house without a new kitchen.
>
There are also people who plan to remodel to get exactly what they want, and
don't want to pay for someone else's upgrade first.
>The question is not what price you want to sell your house for. The
>question is what will be the *net* gain from upgrading the house before
>selling. My amateur assessment is the OP should either upgrade as
>suits a turn-key buyer or leave it alone.
>
Yep. Depends on the market and neighborhood. But there is probably no reason
to do a real fancy upgrade beyond what makes a fairly pretty and servicable
kitchen. Leave alone, or do a few refurbishments. No remod.
Banty
| |
| Norminn 2006-02-27, 12:21 pm |
| cas wrote:
> I am about accept a transfer at work and we're going to have to sell
> our home. No biggie, I was ready to move anyway.
>
> We live in an area with a fairly hot market, 2 homes near me moved in 3
> days. My house is in ok condition, it's not a showpiece. Old, solid,
> etc. Anyway, here are my questions. No flames, this is more of an
> informal survey.
>
> 1) The attic was painted purple by the previous owners. I've cleaned
> most of it out (it's about 800sq ft). Should I paint it - or at least
> prime it - a less obnoxious color? I could finish it in 4 or 5 hours.
> When we first looked at the house I thought "jeez, that is ugly".
I like purple, but would change that to reduce the "ugh" factor.
>
> 2) Kitchen. It's old, the cabinets are sorta cheap and while they look
> ok they aren't great. The SO wants to replace them, I'm really not up
I would never do that to sell a house, as it is an expense for esthetics
not likely to be recovered on selling.
> for a kitchen redo if I have to be out of here in 3 months. I was
> thinking of just cleaning them as best as I can, repainting the
> kitchen, etc. The kitchen is semi bright, it's well light.
Clean. Reduce clutter. Paint if you love painting or the old paint is
damaged.
>
> 3) Wallpaper. Gawd I hate this mess (esp when it's old as dirt). I'm
> now redoing the bathrooms. One of the bathrooms has a wall of wallpaper
> that isn't responding to any of the removers. Would it be tacky to just
Vinyl? What have you used? If the surface won't peel off, use coarse
sandpaper to score it horizontally. Spray with warm water, let it soak
in, spray again, soak again, and start peeling/scraping GENTLY.
Wallpaper paste will not soften unless moisture reaches it - that is the
secret.
> paint over it? It's smooth and there are no seams that are peeling,
> it's just - ugly.
Unless it is horrible, leave it alone. The new wallpaper may rate as
"just as ugly".
>
> That's it, thanks.
>
I would make sure that systems are secure, like no leaks or holes. When
I last sold a house, it needed paint in the kitchen - faded and worn
paint around wall switches, a small stain here and there. Needed
reroof. Home was 10 years old, solid and well built. Those qualities
are essential and usually very obvious. Realtor said not to worry about
cleaning carpet or painting or reroof, and we got a good price. Some
folks will be shopping for a house which requires nothing immediate, and
some will be shopping for a home that is the right size, style, location
and amenities even if it needs new wallpaper.
| |
| Jennifer 2006-02-27, 12:21 pm |
|
Banty wrote:
> There are also people who plan to remodel to get exactly what they want, and
> don't want to pay for someone else's upgrade first.
Yep. I'm one of those. With my last house, the kitchen had been
remodeled within the last five years, but I hated everything about
it... pinky-tan oak cabinets, white appliances, a strange little range
and hood, ornate brass lighting fixtures... I spent two years in that
house thinking, "I really hate this kitchen, but it would be such a
waste to remodel when it's all practically brand new". That kitchen is
one of the reasons I was so happy when we got the opportunity to move
When DH and I were shopping for our new house, we deliberately looked
for places with older kitchens that we could upgrade/update without
feeling completely wasteful. We actually wound up finding a home that
had been recently updated by people with our same taste, so we got
really lucky there. Both of our runners-up had old kitchens with good
layouts that just needed updating (new countertops and appliances,
mostly).
I agree with most of the responses here, by the way... double prime the
attic, clean clean clean, leave the kitchen cabinets alone except for
cleaning and maybe a change of hardware, and either remove the
wallpaper or leave it alone. If you really have the time to devote to
it, sanding and painting the kitchen cabinets might help, but that's a
LOT of work and you run the risk of people like my husband coming
through and saying "ugh, I hate painted cabinets". You can't please
everybody, but you only really need to please one
--
Jennifer
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| The Reverend Natural Light 2006-02-27, 1:21 pm |
| I've never seen these disclosures everyone talks about here. In my
area, every house sells with a disclaimer. The last place I sold had
zero problems and I knew it's history from day one. The realtor still
insisted that I list the place with a disclaimer instead of disclosure
because "It's just how they do it".
Then there's "As-Is", which basically means the well or septic is bad
or it's a termite farm.
-rev
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| Goedjn 2006-02-27, 2:21 pm |
| On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:39:20 -0600, Mark Lloyd <mlloyd@xmail.com10>
wrote:
>On 26 Feb 2006 10:02:24 -0800, scott21230@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>The house I bought had wallpaper in the bathroom. Most of it peeled
>off and there was more wallpaper under that.
The fact that the wallpaper in question won't come off with the
standard removal techniques implies that it's some sort of
plastic-coated steam-resistant crap. You'll probably need to
perforate it with a ponce wheel before any chemical/steam
treatment stands a chance.
| |
| Neill Massello 2006-02-27, 5:21 pm |
| hallerb@aol.com <hallerb@aol.com> wrote:
> Theres also flip that house, househunters and a bunch of other shows,
> ALL indicate you get back more than you spend for a kitchen makeover.
> so do realtors and friends that have sold homes.
And do those sources of information have any interests involved in the
question? Who advertises on those shows? And if it was generally
believed that renovation didn't pay off, how many people would watch
them? Do the realtors who advise owners to renovate before selling get
commissions based only on the pre-renovation value of the house?
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-27, 5:21 pm |
| And do those sources of information have any interests involved in the
question? Who advertises on those shows? And if it was generally
believed that renovation didn't pay off, how many people would watch
them? Do the realtors who advise owners to renovate before selling get
commissions based only on the pre-renovation value of the house?
Amazing the divergence of opinions on thisa subject. my situation
invested 12 grand made a extra 18 grand and the house sold faster.
I suggest anyone considering selling check their local library. its
free and see what the sell house books say.
I have a question for the dis believers....
Why is house flipping became so popular today if upgrading doesnt
result in more profit
Go right ahead sell your house cheap if you want, a hard worker will
buy it, fix it up and make a nice profit.... by selling it to someone
else for a lot more
| |
|
| On 27 Feb 2006 08:13:50 -0800, "The Reverend Natural Light"
<reverend@fourthgen.org> wrote:
>I've never seen these disclosures everyone talks about here. In my
>area, every house sells with a disclaimer. The last place I sold had
>zero problems and I knew it's history from day one. The realtor still
>insisted that I list the place with a disclaimer instead of disclosure
>because "It's just how they do it".
Here we use "disclosures", the seller must disclose any previously
known problems, problems fixed, etc. It's legal to bury a body on my
property in Las Vegas, but I MUST disclose this information to the
buyer. They can back out of the deal if they don't like the
information disclosed. I don't know about disclaimers, but I imagine
they both provide similar information. I won't mention every nail hole
I patch, but I will say "yes the AC compressor was replaced under
warranty"...
>Then there's "As-Is", which basically means the well or septic is bad
>or it's a termite farm.
Zackly...... I have a house listed with an above ground spa and it is
clearly stated "as-is" for the spa. I didn't want to move it.
Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-27, 6:21 pm |
| I think the reason most here dont believe upgrading is a good idea is
very apparent!!
This board is universally populated by the DIY group, and for that
reason isnt a good base to ask.
Myself I would rather buy a fixer upper.
My wife on the other hand has NO INTEREST in remodeling.
This became very apparent in orlando florida where we used the last day
of our vacation for some home shopping. She wanted a turn key special
preferably brand new.
My favorite house was a older one near a dead end street with old
stately trees and large lots. My wife didnt like this home, since it
had a odor problem and needed work.
I told the realtor pull up and toss the carpets, scrub the entire
place, seal all walls and floors, and put in a new kitchen.
realtor responded obviously you have done this beforee, this house will
sell slow since only 10% of the market is looking for a fixer upper,
and the sales price will be at least 20% under normal value.
For board members here WE ARE THAT 10%, hope the original poster finds
his
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-27, 6:21 pm |
| I think the reason most here dont believe upgrading is a good idea is
very apparent!!
This board is universally populated by the DIY group, and for that
reason isnt a good base to ask.
Myself I would rather buy a fixer upper.
My wife on the other hand has NO INTEREST in remodeling.
This became very apparent in orlando florida where we used the last day
of our vacation for some home shopping. She wanted a turn key special
preferably brand new.
My favorite house was a older one near a dead end street with old
stately trees and large lots. My wife didnt like this home, since it
had a odor problem and needed work.
I told the realtor pull up and toss the carpets, scrub the entire
place, seal all walls and floors, and put in a new kitchen.
realtor responded obviously you have done this beforee, this house will
sell slow since only 10% of the market is looking for a fixer upper,
and the sales price will be at least 20% under normal value.
For board members here WE ARE THAT 10%, hope the original poster finds
his
| |
| Frank Boettcher 2006-02-27, 6:21 pm |
| On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:46:57 GMT, KLS <xymergy@suds.com> wrote:
..
>
>*DO NOT* paint over the wallpaper. If you do, you will be consigned
>to Dante's fifth circle of hell or even circle 9.3. Actually, have
>you really exhausted all removal possibilities? Have you scored the
>paper itself and rented a steamer? That *ALWAYS* works if the
>water/vinegar (or DIF) soak isn't speedy enough for you.
>
>You may think that just painting over the paper will be the perfect
>solution, but paint is wet and often will lift up loose areas of the
>paper underneath, creating a no-longer smooth surface, so best to just
>remove the wallpaper.
I just went through this decision process (wall paper, paint or
remove) In my kitchen I removed it. What a nightmare. Used
solution, with the tool that scores or makes holes so that the
solution can get through. No dice. Went to the rent center and got a
steamer. got the wallpaper off and a good portion of the drywall
surface paper. Spent a week fairing out and repairing the drywall and
then had to prime with a shellac based stain blocker because the
adhesive residue after multiple cleanings would not let the paint
stick. Came out OK after a lot of work.
After that nightmare I decided to paint over the dining room wall
paper. Put on a coat of oil based stain blocker. Then used a
lightweight vinyl spackling compound at the seams and silconized
acrilic caulk at the chair rail and crown molding border with the
walpaper. Then another coat of stain blocker. Then normal, high
quality latex wall paint. The finished dining room is outstanding,
much better than the kitchen. With far less work.
| |
|
| On 27 Feb 2006 13:16:14 -0800, "hallerb@aol.com" <hallerb@aol.com>
wrote:
>This board is universally populated by the DIY group, and for that
>reason isnt a good base to ask.
Don't rule out common sense of the DIYer (I'm not a tradesman). I read
this thread and see plenty want to save money, time and effort. Maybe
from experience they think the local market won't recover the dollars
and effort invested. I've made extra efforts to ensure a selling home
is "move-in" condition...and it paid well....
>Myself I would rather buy a fixer upper.
A first time buyer may option for a fixer upper. An
investor/speculator wants it ready - no hassle.
>My wife on the other hand has NO INTEREST in remodeling.
Good for your wallet, I can't say the same.
Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."
| |
| Neill Massello 2006-02-27, 8:21 pm |
| hallerb@aol.com <hallerb@aol.com> wrote:
> Amazing the divergence of opinions on thisa subject. my situation
> invested 12 grand made a extra 18 grand and the house sold faster.
You made a profit. Mazel tov. Not everybody does.
> Why is house flipping became so popular today if upgrading doesnt
> result in more profit
Not all "flipping" involves renovation. In some markets, new properties
get flipped even before construction is complete. The flipping mania is
(was?) more a product of low interest rates and hot real estate markets
than the profitability of renovation.
(BTW, please use proper quoting in your posts.)
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-27, 8:21 pm |
| There are 2 issues:
Making a profit
Making a quick sale:
A home needing work is more likely to remain on the market longer,
sadly many see their neighbor sell for $X and figure their home is
worth that much
Meanwhile the first home is turnkey perfect
Their home needs tons of work.
Then they wonder why its not selling and price cutting begins
| |
| Rick Brandt 2006-02-27, 9:21 pm |
| <hallerb@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141073693.594970.239210@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> And do those sources of information have any interests involved in the
> question? Who advertises on those shows? And if it was generally
> believed that renovation didn't pay off, how many people would watch
> them? Do the realtors who advise owners to renovate before selling get
> commissions based only on the pre-renovation value of the house?
>
> Amazing the divergence of opinions on thisa subject. my situation
> invested 12 grand made a extra 18 grand and the house sold faster.
[snip]
Made an extra 18 compared to what? For you to know that you made an extra 18
you would have to have your house on the market and get several solid offers and
use those to assess the highest amount you would get without renovating the
kitchen, turn all of those offers down, do the renovation, and then receive an
offer from one of those same buyers for 18,000 dollars more AND have that buyer
tell you that the reason he offered the extra 18 was because of the renovation.
My theory is that you have absolutely no idea whether the renovation returned
one cent more than if you had not done it. The above scenario being so
implausible that there would be no way to know one way or the other.
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-27, 9:21 pm |
|
Made an extra 18 compared to what? For you to know that you made an
extra 18
you would have to have your house on the market and get several solid
offers and
use those to assess the highest amount you would get without renovating
the
kitchen, turn all of those offers down, do the renovation, and then
receive an
offer from one of those same buyers for 18,000 dollars more AND have
that buyer
tell you that the reason he offered the extra 18 was because of the
renovation.
My theory is that you have absolutely no idea whether the renovation
returned
one cent more than if you had not done it. The above scenario being so
implausible that there would be no way to know one way or the other.
---------------------------------------------
Got estimates of sales price from realtor selling as it was. Took their
suggestions, general fix up paint new kitchen W/appliances and
carpeting small 2 bedroom home, added GFCIs and other minor buyers
issues
Had realtors return and put on market at 32 grand more than initial
estimate, final sale price 30 grand more than initial estimate.
With my cost of 12 grand my profit was 18 grand Plus house sold fast.
Pittsburgh is a slow market that hasnt seen the housing bubble of most
of the country, many nice homes sell foir 150 grand, the home I sold
was less, so percentage of sales price remodeling really effected the
final profit.
It really doesnt matter what anyone makes on their home but I hate to
see people lose potential big profit to save a few bucks
| |
| ccs>ikyr 2006-02-27, 10:21 pm |
| Now I see why you put in a 12K kitchen -- seems about right for a 150K
house.
It sounds like you're leaving some costs out. You can correct these
assumptions, of course, but let's say one were interested in "flipping"
a house like the one you describe. Costs you didn't mention are
settlement costs -- agent fees to begin with average about 5%, and
that's when you buy it and when you sell it; if we adopt the convention
that you bear half these costs, that's $7500; add other fees and taxes
and you're at least up to $10K between the two transactions. Now let's
assume it took you three months to "flip" the house. You're paying the
mortgage for three months -- that's another $3000, say. So now we've
hit $13,000. What else is missing? What about all the time you put
into the house? You probably put a couple hours a week in, between
shopping for the kitchen, talking to agents, cleaning, painting, and
doing other odd jobs around the house. What about the value of your
time? How much do you make an hour? $20? $30? 13 weeks x 2 hours x
$25 = $650. Prorated property taxes, utilities for three months, etc.
What are we up to? $14K?
Sounds like you made $4K. Not bad, but not the slam-dunk you're
portraying. It's probably true that there are some arbitrage between
the turn-key crowd and the bottom feeder crowd in general. (From the
buyer's side, you can exploit this by buying a fixer-upper.)
Congratulations on your success, but I don't think it's as obvious as
you say that the OP should follow your example.
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-02-27, 11:21 pm |
| Now I see why you put in a 12K kitchen -- seems about right for a 150K
house.
It sounds like you're leaving some costs out. You can correct these
assumptions, of course, but let's say one were interested in "flipping"
a house like the one you describe. Costs you didn't mention are
settlement costs -- agent fees to begin with average about 5%, and
that's when you buy it and when you sell it; if we adopt the convention
that you bear half these costs, that's $7500; add other fees and taxes
and you're at least up to $10K between the two transactions. Now let's
assume it took you three months to "flip" the house. You're paying the
mortgage for three months -- that's another $3000, say. So now we've
hit $13,000. What else is missing? What about all the time you put
into the house? You probably put a couple hours a week in, between
shopping for the kitchen, talking to agents, cleaning, painting, and
doing other odd jobs around the house. What about the value of your
time? How much do you make an hour? $20? $30? 13 weeks x 2 hours x
$25 = $650. Prorated property taxes, utilities for three months, etc.
What are we up to? $14K?
Sounds like you made $4K. Not bad, but not the slam-dunk you're
portraying. It's probably true that there are some arbitrage between
the turn-key crowd and the bottom feeder crowd in general. (From the
buyer's side, you can exploit this by buying a fixer-upper.)
Congratulations on your success, but I don't think it's as obvious as
you say that the OP should follow your example.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasnt a flip, it was my moms who had died. Completely paid for solid
home, but needed work. I put a LOT of hours in, but got them all out at
the time of sale. I think its closer to what a regular homeowner goes
thru. buy house, live in house, use house, abuse house.
now when the time to sell comes what to do?
On another thing the $150K house here would be FAR more in other parts
of the country.The pittsburgh areas lost about 1/3 of its population in
the last 25 years, so theres little demand for housing, the entire area
is depressed. very sad. nice friendly people though, with affordable
housing.
My in laws are trying to sell a home in fredrick MD. house just 6 years
old, pristine condition, brother in law got job with navy NCIS, like
the tv show. Its been on the market since october, price dropped 3
times. housing market has collapsed there, open houses have zero
shoppers. they will end up giving away house just to moive on
Nearly EVERYONE HERE is a DIY person! So we probably enjoy remodeling
and putting our mark on homes.
But 90% of house shoppers want a turnkey home!
By avoiding fixing up a house you are cutting the percentage of
shoppers by 90%
Hey if you want less $$$ go right ahead, its yours to waste and doesnt
effect me in the least!
| |
| Random Netizen 2006-02-28, 1:21 am |
| In article <1141073693.594970.239210@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>, hallerb@aol.com
says...
>I suggest anyone considering selling check their local library. its
>free and see what the sell house books say.
Any number of sources will tell you that you will typically only recover a portion of the
cost of a major home renovation when the house is sold - typically around 65-75% of the
cost of the renovation.
Yes, it's possible to do a renovation and make a profit on the house sale, but it's hard
to figure out how much of the "profit" is a result of the renos, and how much of it is
due to other factors (i.e. a rising housing market, etc.).
>Why is house flipping became so popular today if upgrading doesnt
>result in more profit
House flipping is popular today because the real estate market has been rising sharply
over the past few years in most markets. Flipping doesn't seem too popular when housing
prices are dropping.
>Go right ahead sell your house cheap if you want, a hard worker will
>buy it, fix it up and make a nice profit.... by selling it to someone
>else for a lot more
Renovations are a pain in the XXX to live through. It's one thing to renovate a place
that you aren't planning on living in, but the original question in this thread dealt
with the person's own home. Why somebody would live through a kitchen renovation just to
make a few extra bucks on the home sale is beyond me, but I suppose it takes all kinds...
| |
| The Reverend Natural Light 2006-02-28, 11:21 am |
| The disclaimer basically says that you don't have to tell the buyer
anything. As a buyer, it's a damn scary document to see attached to
the contract, but it's "the way they do it" around here and you have
to.
-rev
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