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Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > March 2006 > Toilet clogs repeatedly...
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Toilet clogs repeatedly...
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| crapper 2006-03-28, 6:21 pm |
| OK... so this is a little embarassing...
Just about anytime I take a crap in one of our toilets and the load is
"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
use toilet paper but still clogs often even if I flush before
wiping. [sorry for the details]
I can always clear it with a few quick plunges. I have tried using one
of those hand screw augurs (the ones with the plastic sleeve to
protect the trap) and it didn't meet any resistance nor did it fix the
problem. I have also tried feeling down the trap with my hand and
didn't feel any objects there.
The toilet itself is a regular gravit flush one, maybe 5-10 years
old. I can't see the model number.
Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
vent?
I can't see the waste pipe so I don't know the diameter but since this
is a 150 year old house, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues
somewhere with the plumbing. By the way the bathroom (and toilet) is
on the third floor and I suspect that it was plumbed in sometime in
the last 30 years
Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
the toilet if I don't have too...
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| hallerb@aol.com 2006-03-28, 6:21 pm |
| do all of your toilets do this?
Try flushing using a bucket of water. Does it flush OK this way?
If not theres a clog, and it never hurts to run a toilet auger down the
trap.
If it flushes ok using a bucket does the water kinda swirl around
without much force?
hard water can clog the interior passages of the toilet and cause this.
the good news its easily fixed.
take off the tank lid, is the water level near the top of the dip tube
like it should be? does the water flow out well when flushed?
i am certain we can help after we find out a bit more
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| Goedjn 2006-03-28, 7:21 pm |
| On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:31:13 GMT, crapper <NOCRAP@nocrap.com> wrote:
>OK... so this is a little embarassing...
>"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
.. . .
>Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
>the toilet if I don't have too...
Try dumping a bucket of water instead of flushing with the
handle. If the problem goes away, then your issue is
upstream of the bowl. If it doesn't, then the issue is
downstream of the bowl.
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| klaatu 2006-03-28, 8:21 pm |
| On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:31:13 GMT, crapper <NOCRAP@nocrap.com> wrote:
>OK... so this is a little embarassing...
>
>Just about anytime I take a crap in one of our toilets and the load is
>"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
>use toilet paper but still clogs often even if I flush before
>wiping. [sorry for the details]
>
>I can always clear it with a few quick plunges. I have tried using one
>of those hand screw augurs (the ones with the plastic sleeve to
>protect the trap) and it didn't meet any resistance nor did it fix the
>problem. I have also tried feeling down the trap with my hand and
>didn't feel any objects there.
>
>The toilet itself is a regular gravit flush one, maybe 5-10 years
>old. I can't see the model number.
>
>Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
>narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
>vent?
>
>I can't see the waste pipe so I don't know the diameter but since this
>is a 150 year old house, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues
>somewhere with the plumbing. By the way the bathroom (and toilet) is
>on the third floor and I suspect that it was plumbed in sometime in
>the last 30 years
>
>Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
>the toilet if I don't have too...
One thing you might check. Make sure that hole in the bottom part of
the bowl is clear. Rur your finger around it and inside as well. I
went thru all kinds of grief including looking for dead animals in the
roof vent and getting the cesspool pumped. I found that the toilet
cleaner that my wife put in the tank deposited and partially clogged
the hole. This hole must be free of junk in order to get the siphen
started.
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-03-28, 8:21 pm |
| the clogged hole will show up in troubleshoting as a fluses fine with a
bucket of water response.
I recently fixed a long troublesome toilet for a friend. 4 bucks worth
of acid cleaned the bowl rim and passages. toilet works fine today.
actually I only used 1/2 of the acid, so total repair 2 bucks
| |
| L d'Bonnie 2006-03-28, 8:21 pm |
| crapper wrote:
> OK... so this is a little embarassing...
>
> Just about anytime I take a crap in one of our toilets and the load is
> "large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
> use toilet paper but still clogs often even if I flush before
> wiping. [sorry for the details]
>
> I can always clear it with a few quick plunges. I have tried using one
> of those hand screw augurs (the ones with the plastic sleeve to
> protect the trap) and it didn't meet any resistance nor did it fix the
> problem. I have also tried feeling down the trap with my hand and
> didn't feel any objects there.
>
> The toilet itself is a regular gravit flush one, maybe 5-10 years
> old. I can't see the model number.
>
> Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
> narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
> vent?
>
> I can't see the waste pipe so I don't know the diameter but since this
> is a 150 year old house, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues
> somewhere with the plumbing. By the way the bathroom (and toilet) is
> on the third floor and I suspect that it was plumbed in sometime in
> the last 30 years
>
> Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
> the toilet if I don't have too...
Had that sort of problem a few years ago. Finally got P'd off
and took the toilet off the drain. Found a pen lodged
in the trap.
| |
| Jerry G. 2006-03-28, 9:21 pm |
| There may be something stuck inside the trap.
--
Jerry G.
======
"crapper" <NOCRAP@nocrap.com> wrote in message
news:m2r74mmf32.fsf@consult.pretender...
OK... so this is a little embarassing...
Just about anytime I take a crap in one of our toilets and the load is
"large" the toilet tends to clog. It happens almost all the time if I
use toilet paper but still clogs often even if I flush before
wiping. [sorry for the details]
I can always clear it with a few quick plunges. I have tried using one
of those hand screw augurs (the ones with the plastic sleeve to
protect the trap) and it didn't meet any resistance nor did it fix the
problem. I have also tried feeling down the trap with my hand and
didn't feel any objects there.
The toilet itself is a regular gravit flush one, maybe 5-10 years
old. I can't see the model number.
Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
vent?
I can't see the waste pipe so I don't know the diameter but since this
is a 150 year old house, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues
somewhere with the plumbing. By the way the bathroom (and toilet) is
on the third floor and I suspect that it was plumbed in sometime in
the last 30 years
Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this? I would prefer not to remove
the toilet if I don't have too...
| |
| tinacci336@sbcglobal.net 2006-03-28, 10:21 pm |
| Years ago Had a commode that would stop flushing then would flush
perfect for two or three times then stopup. After trying all ways to
auger it out finally took bowl up. Found the lid of a tin can in trap
that was acting like a butterfly, opening and closing.
The auger was bypassing it.
| |
|
| On 28 Mar 2006 17:16:12 -0800, tinacci336@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>Years ago Had a commode that would stop flushing then would flush
>perfect for two or three times then stopup. After trying all ways to
>auger it out finally took bowl up. Found the lid of a tin can in trap
>that was acting like a butterfly, opening and closing.
>The auger was bypassing it.
Bought my house and the seller mentioned the new toilets. So we pulled
them during a tile job before we moved in - several Q-tips ... never
got to the auger, but one did have a flush issue before the sell.
Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."
| |
| crapper 2006-03-30, 11:21 am |
| "hallerb@aol.com" <hallerb@aol.com> writes:
> do all of your toilets do this?
NO. Just the one on the 3rd floor.
>
> Try flushing using a bucket of water. Does it flush OK this way?
When it is clogged, I have tried filling the bowl all the way to the
brim to try to let "gravity" work, but it still doesn't clear.
When are you suggesting I use a bucket? If I use it before it clogs, I
won't know whether it would have clogged without the bucket. If I use
it after a clog, isn't that the same as just filling the bowl with water
Sometimes filling the bowl, causes it to clear but most of the time, I
need the plunger to clear it.
> If not theres a clog, and it never hurts to run a toilet auger down the
> trap.
I have tried the closet augur without success.
>
> If it flushes ok using a bucket does the water kinda swirl around
> without much force?
Unless clogged (or partially clogged) it seems to be ok.
> hard water can clog the interior passages of the toilet and cause this.
> the good news its easily fixed.
>
> take off the tank lid, is the water level near the top of the dip tube
> like it should be? does the water flow out well when flushed?
YES. Seems to work fine.
> i am certain we can help after we find out a bit more
THANKS.
| |
| crapper 2006-03-30, 11:21 am |
| Goedjn <prose@mail.uri.edu> writes:
> On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:31:13 GMT, crapper <NOCRAP@nocrap.com> wrote:
>
> . . .
>
> Try dumping a bucket of water instead of flushing with the
> handle. If the problem goes away, then your issue is
> upstream of the bowl. If it doesn't, then the issue is
> downstream of the bowl.
Well, when it is clogged, I have tried filling the bowl to the brim
(which should be as good as a bucket full, right?). Some of the time
the extra head of pressure clears it but most of the time I still need
the trusty plunger.
If you are saying that I should try the bucket *before* I get a clog,
how will I know whether the bucket helped or whether it would not have
clogged anyway?
| |
| crapper 2006-03-30, 11:21 am |
| "hallerb@aol.com" <hallerb@aol.com> writes:
> the clogged hole will show up in troubleshoting as a fluses fine with a
> bucket of water response.
Why will the bucket flush ok if the trap hole is clogged?
> I recently fixed a long troublesome toilet for a friend. 4 bucks worth
> of acid cleaned the bowl rim and passages. toilet works fine today.
>
> actually I only used 1/2 of the acid, so total repair 2 bucks
How do you know when "acid" is needed?
By the way I did try some acid a few months back to clean scratches
from the porcelain (which it did). Maybe not enough to have an effect
on any clogs but the toilet did see a few ounces of acid flushed down.
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-03-30, 12:21 pm |
| How do you know when "acid" is needed?
By the way I did try some acid a few months back to clean scratches
from the porcelain (which it did). Maybe not enough to have an effect
on any clogs but the toilet did see a few ounces of acid flushed down.
Go buy some acid under 5 bucks, muriatic. and a funnel!
DONT USE ANY OTHER CLEANERS OR ANYTHING IN TOILET AND FLUSH PLAIN WATER
A FEW TIMES BEFORE DOING THIS!
Wear eye protection, plunge toilet to get bowl water level as low as
possible, sponge remainder into bucket if you can, the less water the
more effective the acid
open window, insert funnel in dip tube opening in tank.our about a cup
of acid carefully in funnel dont splash.
then pour about a cup into bowl directly dont spash.
leave room shut door.
wait 15 minutes and flush toilet.like 10 tmes with plain water to
dilute and remove acid from your ghome plumbing lines
now try for a few days. any more clogs?
the clog helped by acid is in the bowl rim, the acid dissolves it. very
easy
you usually note when flushed with plain water the water just swirls
around and doesnt move with force down the drain
| |
| Goedjn 2006-03-30, 2:21 pm |
|
>
>Well, when it is clogged, I have tried filling the bowl to the brim
>(which should be as good as a bucket full, right?). Some of the time
>the extra head of pressure clears it but most of the time I still need
>the trusty plunger.
>
>If you are saying that I should try the bucket *before* I get a clog,
>how will I know whether the bucket helped or whether it would not have
>clogged anyway?
Ok, I think you have successfully demonstrated that the problem
is *NOT* insufficient flow from the tank to the bowl.
Which means that you have to drain and pull the toilet
itself, and check IT for obstructions, and look down the
waste pipe and see if there's either standing water or
an obstruction there. If that in turn doesn't reveal
the source of the problem, have someone come and
snake the main drain.
| |
| crapper 2006-03-30, 5:21 pm |
| Goedjn <prose@mail.uri.edu> writes:
>
> Ok, I think you have successfully demonstrated that the problem
> is *NOT* insufficient flow from the tank to the bowl.
>
> Which means that you have to drain and pull the toilet
> itself, and check IT for obstructions, and look down the
> waste pipe and see if there's either standing water or
> an obstruction there. If that in turn doesn't reveal
> the source of the problem, have someone come and
> snake the main drain.
Sounds like I have a fun project for the weekend...
I imagine the problem shouldn't be in the main drain since the
bathrooms on the 2nd floor all drain properly.
Based on feedback here, it sounds like the problem is either in the
trap (such as a small obstruction missed by my closet augur) or in the
drain pipe connecting the 3rd floor toilet with the 2nd floor drain
plumbing.
- Is it also true that it is unlikely to be a vent problem since the
blockages can be total and sustained even when the bowl is filled
with water? (i.e., a vent issue would just slow drainage)
- Can someone tell me what are the code requirements on toilet drains?
e.g., min diamater pipe width, maximum number of bends (if any),
etc.
| |
| crapper 2006-03-31, 1:21 am |
| Goedjn <prose@mail.uri.edu> writes:
>
> Ok, I think you have successfully demonstrated that the problem
> is *NOT* insufficient flow from the tank to the bowl.
One more "interesting" observation.
Sometimes when flushing, the solids will first appear to go down the
trap, then "regurgitate" up into the bowl and then drain back down
again. This does not always happen.
Does this indicate anything?
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-03-31, 7:21 am |
| One more "interesting" observation.
Sometimes when flushing, the solids will first appear to go down the
trap, then "regurgitate" up into the bowl and then drain back down
again. This does not always happen.
Does this indicate anything?
YES! It indicates the amount f water entering the bowl is marginal. So
your not getting enough OMPH to get past the trap inside the toilet and
start the suction of the flush. How toilets actually flush is pushing
enough water by rim holes of bowl ad the jet in the bottom of the bowl
to start the flush, vacuum finishes the job.
I am sure acid would fix it!
However since you like I was are skeptical.....
For the next week NEVER flush by pushing the lever!! NOT ONCE!
!!!!!ONLY FLUSH BY DUMPING A FULL BUCKET OF WATER INTO THE BOWL!!!
IF you get no clogs this PROVES its needs acid. and honestly its not as
dangerous as it sounds.
Again If the toilet flushes good using a bucket of water then the
plumbing downstream is fine.
| |
| PaPaPeng 2006-03-31, 2:21 pm |
| On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:31:13 GMT, crapper <NOCRAP@nocrap.com> wrote:
>Where is the likely source of the problem? clogged/bad trap? too
>narrow waste pipe? too many bends in the waste pipe? bad wax seal? bad
>vent?
The most likely cause and also the easiest solution to the problem is
to replace the wax seal. I have to do this for my toilet every two
years or so. My toilet is over the washer dryer and I suspect the
warm air from the dryer softens the wax seal causing it to lose its
seal integrity. The little air it lets in during the flush cycle
weakens the siphon action. The crap and the toilet paper barely gets
sucked out, and if there is a slightly larger load, they form a dam
and result in a messy overflow. Put in a new wax seal. If that fixes
the problem you know what to do in future. If it doesn't you are not
out by much in cost or effort.
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-03-31, 3:21 pm |
| The most likely cause and also the easiest solution to the problem is
to replace the wax seal. I have to do this for my toilet every two
years or so. My toilet is over the washer dryer and I suspect the
warm air from the dryer softens the wax seal causing it to lose its
seal integrity. The little air it lets in during the flush cycle
weakens the siphon action. The crap and the toilet paper barely gets
sucked out, and if there is a slightly larger load, they form a dam
and result in a messy overflow. Put in a new wax seal. If that fixes
the problem you know what to do in future. If it doesn't you are not
out by much in cost or effort.
Reply
true that might fix it but also the bolts may break, flange may have a
problem etc.
ONLY pull toilet after less invasive means have been attempted and
failed...
TRY using only a full bucket of water to flush, if it works ok every
time then its the toilet
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