|
Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > April 2006 > Putting cement foundation where there is none
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
Putting cement foundation where there is none
|
|
| lagnaf 2006-04-04, 2:21 am |
| I have a small barn (20' X 24' - approximately 11 years old) built by a
previous property owner. Nice job with one major exception, he didn't
pour a footer (don't even ask me why). He simply built right on top of
the ground. The sill plate is pressure treated lumber, but I'm
concerned about rot. None visable yet, but I'm looking to put some
money into the structure to use it as a workshop, and wanted to deal
with this before I did. My dad thinks the treated lumber will last
another 15 years, but frankly I'm planing on being here much longer
than that (I also don't believe I'll get 15 more years before having a
problem).
A couple of details that you may need to know:
1.) While I was having an addition put on my house, I had a 5" thick
cement floor poured inside the barn, but it is isolated from the sill
plate by the radient insulation (think bubble wrap with some foil on
both sides), so the walls should be able to move independently of the
floor.
2.) The bottom foot of pine siding will have to be removed because of
rot. I'm hoping to use Trex or something similar to give it the look
of a foundation, and move the siding away from the ground. I would
like to eventually cedar shingle over the pine if the cement foundation
happens.
The big question is: Can I potentially dig up under the sill plate and
put down some sort of cement foundation/footer? Can I just do small
sections at a time and pour cement or buld a cement block wall just a
couple of blocks high. Maybe just a few cement piers? What about
jacking the whole structure up and digging pouring a complete footer?
In general, I'm not afraid of the work and have all the time in the
world, I just don't know what would be the best way to tackle the
problem. I would appreciate any comments from somebody with some
experience in this area.
Thanks,
Lagnaf
| |
|
|
> put down some sort of cement foundation/footer? Can I just do small
> sections at a time and pour cement or buld a cement block wall just a
> couple of blocks high. Maybe just a few cement piers? What about
> jacking the whole structure up and digging pouring a complete footer?
>
You need to jack it up so the wood is 6 inches or more above the ground. So
I would jack up half of it a couple of feet in the air, pour a footing and
stem wall, then set it back down and repeat for the second half.
| |
| tbasc@bellsouth.net 2006-04-04, 8:21 am |
| The six inch clearance is important if you are to avoid rot.
It's my experience that ground levels often raise around buildings.
(Planting beds, sod growth and the like)
Since the siding is to be removed around the bottom, you might want to
run temporary shoring through the building and firmly attached to studs
to give you lifting points.
Check local requirements for depth of footers and reinforcing.
TB
| |
| m Ransley 2006-04-04, 9:21 am |
| My 8x8 shed is set on 3 concrete blocks on each side, it is above the
dirt, It would be better to raise it as dirt will build up around it
causing damage eventualy. Concrete block would be alot quicker and
easier to slip under once you lift a side up. Or jack it up completely
in one operation .
| |
| lagnaf 2006-04-04, 9:21 am |
| Pat,
Thanks for the feedback. How do you jack up only half of the
structure? Do you mean one side at a time? Just tilt it? Do you
think I can just use bottle jacks and lally columns on the inside (on
top of the poured 5" floor) to support against the top of the walls. I
read somewhere that you can do this to support the walls for replacing
a rotted sill plate. Obviously to do this I would have to be sure the
top plate is tied good to the wall studs with deck supports or
something.
Thanks again,
Lagnaf
| |
| Frank Boettcher 2006-04-04, 11:21 am |
| On 3 Apr 2006 21:41:44 -0700, "lagnaf" <jburnett@amidoduco.com> wrote:
>I have a small barn (20' X 24' - approximately 11 years old) built by a
>previous property owner. Nice job with one major exception, he didn't
>pour a footer (don't even ask me why). He simply built right on top of
>the ground. The sill plate is pressure treated lumber, but I'm
>concerned about rot. None visable yet, but I'm looking to put some
>money into the structure to use it as a workshop, and wanted to deal
>with this before I did. My dad thinks the treated lumber will last
>another 15 years, but frankly I'm planing on being here much longer
>than that (I also don't believe I'll get 15 more years before having a
>problem).
>
>A couple of details that you may need to know:
>1.) While I was having an addition put on my house, I had a 5" thick
>cement floor poured inside the barn, but it is isolated from the sill
>plate by the radient insulation (think bubble wrap with some foil on
>both sides), so the walls should be able to move independently of the
>floor.
>
>2.) The bottom foot of pine siding will have to be removed because of
>rot. I'm hoping to use Trex or something similar to give it the look
>of a foundation, and move the siding away from the ground. I would
>like to eventually cedar shingle over the pine if the cement foundation
>happens.
>
>The big question is: Can I potentially dig up under the sill plate and
>put down some sort of cement foundation/footer? Can I just do small
>sections at a time and pour cement or buld a cement block wall just a
>couple of blocks high. Maybe just a few cement piers? What about
>jacking the whole structure up and digging pouring a complete footer?
>
>In general, I'm not afraid of the work and have all the time in the
>world, I just don't know what would be the best way to tackle the
>problem. I would appreciate any comments from somebody with some
>experience in this area.
>
>Thanks,
>Lagnaf
Your problem is that you indicate you just have a traditional frame
with studs on a sill plate. any jacking is more than likely going to
rack everything.
I would put a 2 x 10 or greater around the inside or outside of the
stud walls, whichever is easier to get to, tieing it to each stud and
the sill plate. Then dig footer holes at each corner, in the middle
of the each side. set a bottle jack (rental store) in the hole and
jack it up to get clearance and drop it on flat cinder blocks flush
with your slab (may take some steel shims to get it flushand some
gravel in the bottom of the hole to support the blocks). Once you have
it supported on these make shift piers, dig and pour a continuous
footer flush with your slab (pour around the blocks). Wrap a sill
flashing or vapor barrier on your plate before you make the pour and
rent a vibrator to make sure you get the concrete to flush out against
the sill plate. You will still start out with most of the load on the
piers, but they will settle and the load will transfer to your
continuous footer. You can leave the 2 x if it is not in the way or
remove and resuse.
Frank
| |
| Jim Elbrecht 2006-04-04, 12:21 pm |
| Frank Boettcher <fboettcher@comcast.net> wrote:
-snip-
>Your problem is that you indicate you just have a traditional frame
>with studs on a sill plate. any jacking is more than likely going to
>rack everything.
I sorta disagree. Trying to do one side at a time will most likely
twist things beyond repair--- But I'd still try to support the whole
thing on every corner and 2-3 more to a side and jack it up to pur
footers under.
>I would put a 2 x 10 or greater around the inside or outside of the
>stud walls, whichever is easier to get to, tieing it to each stud and
>the sill plate.
Since he's replacing the bottom siding-- a good time to check for stud
rot, etc-- [I'd use 2x12 & decking screws - 3 per stud- then use
them for shelves later.]
-snip some stuff that I more or less agree with-
>rent a vibrator to make sure you get the concrete to flush out against
>the sill plate.
That vibrator might be the best money you ever spend. I was lucky
enough to have a brother-in-law with one on a footer I poured a couple
years ago. It was worth 2 extra men for a day.
> You will still start out with most of the load on the
>piers, but they will settle and the load will transfer to your
>continuous footer. You can leave the 2 x if it is not in the way or
>remove and resuse.
Jim
| |
| Wayne Whitney 2006-04-04, 3:21 pm |
| On 2006-04-04, Jim Elbrecht <elbrecht@email.com> wrote:
> Frank Boettcher <fboettcher@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Since he's replacing the bottom siding-- a good time to check for stud
> rot, etc-- [I'd use 2x12 & decking screws - 3 per stud- then use
> them for shelves later.]
Deck screws don't have much shear rating compared to nails, and the
load on these fasteners will be shear. So I suggest nails or a screw
designed to have a high shear rating, like the Simpson Strong Drive
Screw.
Cheers, Wayne
| |
| Goedjn 2006-04-04, 3:21 pm |
|
>
>The big question is: Can I potentially dig up under the sill plate and
>put down some sort of cement foundation/footer? Can I just do small
>sections at a time and pour cement or buld a cement block wall just a
>couple of blocks high. Maybe just a few cement piers? What about
>jacking the whole structure up and digging pouring a complete footer?
>
If the studs are exposed on the inside, you can just
nail brackets upside down to them, put a beam under
the brackets, and stick bottle-jacks
underneath them to lift the barn. You'll probably want
to add some diagonal bracing and put in some temporary
"floor joists" to keep the walls from wracking and the
walls from spreading.
| |
| m Ransley 2006-04-04, 3:21 pm |
| How do you jack it up, carefully, its big and depending on how its put
together could come apart if you lift a side.
| |
| cornytheclown@hotmail.com 2006-04-04, 7:21 pm |
| Insure it... burn it.. rebuild correctly.....this is america for
christs sake.
|
|
|
|
|