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Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > April 2006 > Good all-weather water-proof outdoor paint/sealer?
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Good all-weather water-proof outdoor paint/sealer?
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| Ken Moiarty 2006-04-13, 12:21 am |
| Hi,
I'm having to replace the outside mouldings (and possibly frame) of a
doorway on my garage. This doorway is on a side that is very often exposed
to "horizontal rain" due to local blustery winds during rainy (Vancouver)
weather, and as a result the mouldings (and possibly door frame) have become
water logged and are rotting. Therefore, after to do the repairs, I want to
be sure the problem doesn't recur by using a paint and/or sealer that will
keep the wind driven rain from breaking through and causing damage to the
wood for some time to come. Therefore... any recommendations anybody?
TIA,
Ken
| |
| Al Bundy 2006-04-13, 12:21 am |
| "Ken Moiarty" <kmoiarty35@shaw.ca> wrote in
news:123rdc5kb26ar28@news.supernews.com:
> Hi,
>
> I'm having to replace the outside mouldings (and possibly frame) of a
> doorway on my garage. This doorway is on a side that is very often
> exposed to "horizontal rain" due to local blustery winds during rainy
> (Vancouver) weather, and as a result the mouldings (and possibly door
> frame) have become water logged and are rotting. Therefore, after to
> do the repairs, I want to be sure the problem doesn't recur by using a
> paint and/or sealer that will keep the wind driven rain from breaking
> through and causing damage to the wood for some time to come.
> Therefore... any recommendations anybody?
>
> TIA,
> Ken
>
>
>
Aside from priming and painting the standard stuff, couple of things I
can think of "to be sure the problem doesn't recur":
Is there any of the "composite" molding available where you are. Never
rots. Doesn't split when nailed or screwed. Paintable. Here for instance,
brick molding comes in primed pine and the composite stuff. Price for
either is comparable.
Not sure if you have a table and chop saw or your abilities. Make some
out of PT. Make sure you let it dry (few weeks maybe). Then prime and
paint.
| |
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| On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 22:05:44 -0500, Al Bundy <postmaster@127.0.0.1>
wrote:
>"Ken Moiarty" <kmoiarty35@shaw.ca> wrote
>
>
>Aside from priming and painting the standard stuff, couple of things I
>can think of "to be sure the problem doesn't recur":
>
>Is there any of the "composite" molding available where you are. Never
>rots. Doesn't split when nailed or screwed. Paintable. Here for instance,
>brick molding comes in primed pine and the composite stuff. Price for
>either is comparable.
I disagree wth this advice. Using a composit material in this
situation is likely to leave you with rotting wood behind the moulding
(in the frame), which is more difficult to deal with than rotting
molding.
>Not sure if you have a table and chop saw or your abilities. Make some
>out of PT. Make sure you let it dry (few weeks maybe). Then prime and
>paint.
Disagree wth this, too. First, because you'll be making lots of cuts,
you'll be exposing the interior of the wood, where the PT checmicals
haven't reached. To maintain the PT, you should dip the cut ends. But
if you do that, paint won't hold to the wood. Paint doesn't bind very
well to PT wood anyway, leading to water getting behind the PT wood
and into the frame.
Second, pressure treated wood won't rot (right away), but it will
crack and split due to exposure (or just over time, because PT is
rarely well dried). Because PT wood tends to be low quailty wood to
begin with, it tends to split pretty easily. And then you'll again be
dealing with water problems in the frame.
I would recommend just doing a good job with traditional materials.
1. Backprime every piece of wood you use. In your situation, I would
prime the non-exposed frame pieces, as well. Prime all the cut
end-grains. Use a good quality oil-based primer.
2. Use a high quality oil-based paint.
3. While you're doing the repairs, consider how water can escape from
behind the moulding if it gets there. Allow for "drainage".
4. Check it a few times a year and repair any breaks in the paint film
or other problem you see.
Anther thought would be to consider using cedar. I don't have any real
experience with it -- I live in the US North East, and the only cedar
we see is in siding. But in Vancover you might be able to get other
sizes in cedar. But check with others here or at your local stores, as
I don't know enough about cedar to recommend it - just something to
look into.
Terry
| |
| Al Bundy 2006-04-14, 1:21 am |
| Terry <noemail@none.invalid> wrote in
news:lpcs32hiqu39onvjolc77kqi01fbu3093j@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 22:05:44 -0500, Al Bundy <postmaster@127.0.0.1>
> wrote:
>
>
> I disagree wth this advice. Using a composit material in this
> situation is likely to leave you with rotting wood behind the moulding
> (in the frame), which is more difficult to deal with than rotting
> molding.
>
>
> Disagree wth this, too. First, because you'll be making lots of cuts,
> you'll be exposing the interior of the wood, where the PT checmicals
> haven't reached. To maintain the PT, you should dip the cut ends. But
> if you do that, paint won't hold to the wood. Paint doesn't bind very
> well to PT wood anyway, leading to water getting behind the PT wood
> and into the frame.
>
> Second, pressure treated wood won't rot (right away), but it will
> crack and split due to exposure (or just over time, because PT is
> rarely well dried). Because PT wood tends to be low quailty wood to
> begin with, it tends to split pretty easily. And then you'll again be
> dealing with water problems in the frame.
>
> I would recommend just doing a good job with traditional materials.
>
> 1. Backprime every piece of wood you use. In your situation, I would
> prime the non-exposed frame pieces, as well. Prime all the cut
> end-grains. Use a good quality oil-based primer.
>
> 2. Use a high quality oil-based paint.
>
> 3. While you're doing the repairs, consider how water can escape from
> behind the moulding if it gets there. Allow for "drainage".
>
> 4. Check it a few times a year and repair any breaks in the paint film
> or other problem you see.
>
> Anther thought would be to consider using cedar. I don't have any real
> experience with it -- I live in the US North East, and the only cedar
> we see is in siding. But in Vancover you might be able to get other
> sizes in cedar. But check with others here or at your local stores, as
> I don't know enough about cedar to recommend it - just something to
> look into.
>
> Terry
>
You make some good points & possibilities Terry. Could contest some a
little but that's not getting anyone anywhere.
If done via painting, endpriming and back priming are a must like you
said. Painting with oil based is another. In cases where the endcuts are
very likely to get repeated water exposure, I've even coated the ends
with silicone. Not sure how effective it was but I don't think it hurt.
| |
|
| On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:19:22 -0500, Al Bundy <postmaster@127.0.0.1>
wrote:
>If done via painting, endpriming and back priming are a must like you
>said. Painting with oil based is another. In cases where the endcuts are
>very likely to get repeated water exposure, I've even coated the ends
>with silicone. Not sure how effective it was but I don't think it hurt.
Good idea, and reminds me that I forgot to mention caulk. With
"horizontal rain", as the OP talked about, I would be carefull to
caulk all the joints. Leave the bottom open, so water has an exit.
T.
| |
| m Ransley 2006-04-14, 9:21 am |
| If its water logged now water is getting behind it, I dont see it a
paint issue but a caulking issue.
| |
|
| Bear in mind the horizontal continuous wind causes simlar affects that a
topmost horizontal surface may have due to moisture disturbance of the
surface.
Caulk the heck out of every joint, crevice, or whatever. Use caulking that
is flexible with the weather and takes paint and primer well. If you do
well here, most any famous brand paint or primer will work designed for
outdoor use. I use Sherwin XXXXXXXX paint/primer myself.
--
Jonny
"Ken Moiarty" <kmoiarty35@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:123rdc5kb26ar28@news.supernews.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm having to replace the outside mouldings (and possibly frame) of a
> doorway on my garage. This doorway is on a side that is very often
> exposed to "horizontal rain" due to local blustery winds during rainy
> (Vancouver) weather, and as a result the mouldings (and possibly door
> frame) have become water logged and are rotting. Therefore, after to do
> the repairs, I want to be sure the problem doesn't recur by using a paint
> and/or sealer that will keep the wind driven rain from breaking through
> and causing damage to the wood for some time to come. Therefore... any
> recommendations anybody?
>
> TIA,
> Ken
>
| |
|
| Water doesn't exit vertically with horizontal wind.
--
Jonny
"Terry" <noemail@none.invalid> wrote in message
news:sa2v32tj4chhts04q6ge1f5t8l3g6vqigj@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:19:22 -0500, Al Bundy <postmaster@127.0.0.1>
> wrote:
>
>
> Good idea, and reminds me that I forgot to mention caulk. With
> "horizontal rain", as the OP talked about, I would be carefull to
> caulk all the joints. Leave the bottom open, so water has an exit.
>
> T.
| |
|
| "Jonny" <spamyourself@blackworm.net> wrote:
>"Terry" <noemail@none.invalid> wrote
>Water doesn't exit vertically with horizontal wind.
Of course it does. The wind drives the water into a joint, but once
into the joint there's no wind to speak of, and the water will move
down.
Even if it didn't, you would want to leave an exit path so the wood
will dry out after the rain and wind stops.
Terry
| |
| Ken Moiarty 2006-04-15, 1:21 pm |
| Thanks to all of you guys for the helpful responses. I'm going to go with
the oil based paint and proper caulking route. Using cedar is not a bad
idea, except that the cedar sold today may or may not be the heart- wood you
could be sure of buying 30 years ago. Due to reduced old growth logging in
lieu of pressure from environmentalist groups, a lot of the cedar today is
from young trees and therefore basically just sapwood, which doesn't last
like the, previously common, old cedar heartwood lumber. And due to PR
concerns in this day of 'environmentalistic sentimentalism', lumber vendors
won't tell you if they are selling cedar heartwood, as that would invite
negative publicity from aggresssive environmental-activist groups who are
opposed to all old growth logging. (I learned all this when I was
researching cedar as an option for my backyard deck.)
Ken
| |
| Al Bundy 2006-04-15, 9:21 pm |
| "Jonny" <spamyourself@blackworm.net> wrote in
news:cX%%f.4724$sq5.2345@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
> Bear in mind the horizontal continuous wind causes simlar affects that
> a topmost horizontal surface may have due to moisture disturbance of
> the surface.
>
> Caulk the heck out of every joint, crevice, or whatever. Use caulking
> that is flexible with the weather and takes paint and primer well. If
> you do well here, most any famous brand paint or primer will work
> designed for outdoor use. I use Sherwin XXXXXXXX paint/primer myself.
> Use caulking that is flexible with the weather and takes paint and
> primer well.
Paintable silicone or polyurethane would be my first thought. Yea maybe
5 bucks a tube but probably only need one or two.
| |
| MaxChunk@ergebnis.de 2006-04-18, 12:21 am |
| > .... a lot of the cedar today is
> from young trees and therefore basically just sapwood, which doesn't last
> like the, previously common, old cedar heartwood lumber.
That's what I have always thought... the newly planted little trees in
the replanted commercial forests just don't have the quality of the old
growth forests. Not even close.
Max
| |
| Jim Hunter 2006-04-18, 2:21 am |
| What's wrong with cellular plastic trim moulding? No rot, ever.
"Al Bundy" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Xns97A6CD293AD8EAlBundy@216.196.97.142...
> "Jonny" <spamyourself@blackworm.net> wrote in
> news:cX%%f.4724$sq5.2345@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
>
>
>
>
> Paintable silicone or polyurethane would be my first thought. Yea maybe
> 5 bucks a tube but probably only need one or two.
| |
| Terry 2006-04-18, 12:21 pm |
| On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 01:05:42 -0400, "Jim Hunter"
<jhunter3678@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Jonny" <spamyourself@blackworm.net> wrote
>
>
>
>What's wrong with cellular plastic trim moulding? No rot, ever.
>
You've still got to caulk or somehow seal around it, to protect the
wood behind it.
T.
| |
| Al Bundy 2006-04-19, 12:21 am |
| Terry <noemail@none.invalid> wrote in
news:e3u9421rk7aos8s7gooo1d2533u17pftip@4ax.com:
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 01:05:42 -0400, "Jim Hunter"
> <jhunter3678@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> You've still got to caulk or somehow seal around it, to protect the
> wood behind it.
>
> T.
Absolutely on the caulking. No matter what is used. If kept caulked, I'd
say nothing is wrong with the cellular stuff.
I guess what you were getting at in one post in this thread:
> Terry <noemail@none.invalid> wrote in
> news:lpcs32hiqu39onvjolc77kqi01fbu3093j@4ax.com:
> I disagree wth this advice. Using a composit material in this
> situation is likely to leave you with rotting wood behind the moulding
> (in the frame), which is more difficult to deal with than rotting
> molding.
is that the composite doesn't rot regardless if caulking has dried out.
Then all appears primo on the surface while studs behind turns to mush.
Invite for ants/termites as well.
But that's why I mentioned the silicone or polyurethane caulk.
All a matter of owner awareness/attentiveness. I worry if nothing is
wrong that I must have missed something. I've seen people ignore
plumbing leaks/missing tub caulk until a 2nd floor toilet or shower can
be seen from downstairs...sometimes protruding through.
| |
|
| Yep the plastic stuff "Azek" is the way to go, I use it here on Cape Cod,
especially near the ocean, they have a special two part "calk" that actually
bonds to material (like airplane glue on plastic), behind the trim use
vicor, make a proper sill pan on your doors and windows out of copper or
lead (again vicor the opening first) and you're all set.
http://www.bostoncedar.com/azek.html
ED
"Al Bundy" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Xns97A9EB9569102AlBundy@216.196.97.142...
> Terry <noemail@none.invalid> wrote in
> news:e3u9421rk7aos8s7gooo1d2533u17pftip@4ax.com:
>
>
>
> Absolutely on the caulking. No matter what is used. If kept caulked, I'd
> say nothing is wrong with the cellular stuff.
>
> I guess what you were getting at in one post in this thread:
>
>
>
>
>
> is that the composite doesn't rot regardless if caulking has dried out.
> Then all appears primo on the surface while studs behind turns to mush.
> Invite for ants/termites as well.
>
> But that's why I mentioned the silicone or polyurethane caulk.
>
> All a matter of owner awareness/attentiveness. I worry if nothing is
> wrong that I must have missed something. I've seen people ignore
> plumbing leaks/missing tub caulk until a 2nd floor toilet or shower can
> be seen from downstairs...sometimes protruding through.
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