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Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > April 2006 > Is 10 gauge wire enough to run compressor?
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| Author |
Is 10 gauge wire enough to run compressor?
|
|
| thetiler 2006-04-26, 2:21 am |
| My friend ran 10-3 wire from his power box to his new workshop
about 150 away, he says with 10 guage wire. He says it has three
wires so I assume this is what they call 10-3.
He wants to buy a 60 gallon, 3 hp compressor, one of those $400
one's at tractor supply that are 240 volt and push about 10.3cfm
@90psi.
I'm worried that his wire is not heavy enough. I have (3) 4 guage
wires
running to my workshop which will run 75 amps, more than I'll ever
need.
He ran his wire before telling me, so it's already buried and done.
His wire looks awful small. I know when I run my portable compressors
to take out tile in people's homes, they will kick off 15 amp breakers
all
the time. I need to find a strong plug like where the washer is
plugged in.
I know his larger compressor will demand a lot more juice to kick over
and run.
Will his 10 guage wire support the proposed compressor, or will
he ruin the motor on it as I suspect?
BTW, he is also running many shop lights in the shop, which will
add to the draw some.
Thanks for your help,
thetiler (not theelectrician)
| |
| retiredelectrician64@aol.com 2006-04-26, 7:21 am |
| On 25 Apr 2006 21:55:59 -0700, "thetiler" <thetiler@juno.com> wrote:
>My friend ran 10-3 wire from his power box to his new workshop
>about 150 away, he says with 10 guage wire. He says it has three
>wires so I assume this is what they call 10-3.
>He wants to buy a 60 gallon, 3 hp compressor, one of those $400
>one's at tractor supply that are 240 volt and push about 10.3cfm
>@90psi.
>
>I'm worried that his wire is not heavy enough. I have (3) 4 guage
>wires
>running to my workshop which will run 75 amps, more than I'll ever
>need.
>He ran his wire before telling me, so it's already buried and done.
>
>His wire looks awful small. I know when I run my portable compressors
>to take out tile in people's homes, they will kick off 15 amp breakers
>all
>the time. I need to find a strong plug like where the washer is
>plugged in.
>I know his larger compressor will demand a lot more juice to kick over
>and run.
>
>Will his 10 guage wire support the proposed compressor, or will
>he ruin the motor on it as I suspect?
>BTW, he is also running many shop lights in the shop, which will
>add to the draw some.
>
>Thanks for your help,
>
>thetiler (not theelectrician)
You are correct. #10 wire is far too small.
I'd use at least a #50 wire.
Just multiply the wire number by 10 and you get the proper voltage.
#10 wire is for 100 volts
#50 wire is for 500 volts.
Use the #50 for maximum power.
Retired Electrician
| |
| Joseph Meehan 2006-04-26, 9:21 am |
| thetiler wrote:
> My friend ran 10-3 wire from his power box to his new workshop
> about 150 away, he says with 10 guage wire. He says it has three
> wires so I assume this is what they call 10-3.
Don't assume. It may be 10-2 and he may be counting the ground.
> He wants to buy a 60 gallon, 3 hp compressor, one of those $400
> one's at tractor supply that are 240 volt and push about 10.3cfm
> @90psi.
What does the manufacturer recommend? What are the amp specs for the
compressor? Not all 3 HP's are created equal and they don't all draw the
same current.
>
> I'm worried that his wire is not heavy enough. I have (3) 4 guage
> wires
> running to my workshop which will run 75 amps, more than I'll ever
> need.
> He ran his wire before telling me, so it's already buried and done.
>
> His wire looks awful small. I know when I run my portable
> compressors to take out tile in people's homes, they will kick off 15
> amp breakers all
> the time. I need to find a strong plug like where the washer is
> plugged in.
> I know his larger compressor will demand a lot more juice to kick over
> and run.
>
> Will his 10 guage wire support the proposed compressor, or will
> he ruin the motor on it as I suspect?
> BTW, he is also running many shop lights in the shop, which will
> add to the draw some.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> thetiler (not theelectrician)
--
Joseph Meehan
Dia duit
| |
| Joseph Meehan 2006-04-26, 9:21 am |
| retiredelectrician64@aol.com wrote:
...
>
> You are correct. #10 wire is far too small.
> I'd use at least a #50 wire.
>
> Just multiply the wire number by 10 and you get the proper voltage.
> #10 wire is for 100 volts
> #50 wire is for 500 volts.
?????
>
> Use the #50 for maximum power.
>
>
> Retired Electrician
--
Joseph Meehan
Dia duit
| |
| trader4@optonline.net 2006-04-26, 9:21 am |
|
Joseph Meehan wrote:
> retiredelectrician64@aol.com wrote:
> ..
>
> ?????
>
I hope this is a joke. The wire gauge is determined by the amps, not
the voltage. And 50 gauge wire? LOL
In fact, at 240V, this circuit will be drawing half the current as a
compressor on 120V, which helps, but certainly 10 gauge is too small to
be supplying a shop with compressor at 150 ft. One wonders what people
are thinking when they do this. I mean compared to all the labor, the
cost of right sizing, or even oversizing the cable is mice nuts.
>
> --
> Joseph Meehan
>
> Dia duit
| |
| ds549@webtv.net 2006-04-26, 9:21 am |
| wonder what breaker hes useing with that 10 wire... i think 30amp is
the biggest breaker reccomended. i think according to chart he should
have used 4 number 8 wires to his garage to wire up a new breaker pannel
,,and have a 50 amp breaker on it at the house where it connects........
i think that guy reccomending 50 wire is jokeing.. have wired up several
garages with 4 #8 wires and have worked well.lucas
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm
| |
|
| His compressor at 240 volts will draw in the neighborhood of 15 amps. Any
lights he has on the circuit will surely dim when the compressor starts, but
should otherwise work fine.
"thetiler" <thetiler@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1146027359.041067.224730@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> My friend ran 10-3 wire from his power box to his new workshop
> about 150 away, he says with 10 guage wire. He says it has three
> wires so I assume this is what they call 10-3.
> He wants to buy a 60 gallon, 3 hp compressor, one of those $400
> one's at tractor supply that are 240 volt and push about 10.3cfm
> @90psi.
>
> I'm worried that his wire is not heavy enough. I have (3) 4 guage
> wires
> running to my workshop which will run 75 amps, more than I'll ever
> need.
> He ran his wire before telling me, so it's already buried and done.
>
> His wire looks awful small. I know when I run my portable compressors
> to take out tile in people's homes, they will kick off 15 amp breakers
> all
> the time. I need to find a strong plug like where the washer is
> plugged in.
> I know his larger compressor will demand a lot more juice to kick over
> and run.
>
> Will his 10 guage wire support the proposed compressor, or will
> he ruin the motor on it as I suspect?
> BTW, he is also running many shop lights in the shop, which will
> add to the draw some.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> thetiler (not theelectrician)
>
| |
| hallerb@aol.com 2006-04-26, 10:21 am |
| the killer is the long cable run, the wire will heat rather than power
the motor, buried wires heat more since they cant dissapate heat as
well as those exposed.
given all this it will probably work but snt a good idea.
i have number 10 gauge wire on a 5hp 30 gallon compressor but the wire
is only a few feet long....
never gets warm
| |
|
| I used this method to power my flux capacitor. You can double the
wires and multiply the voltage. I used 3 # 50 wires to get 125,000,000
volts (500^3)
| |
| Mark Lloyd 2006-04-26, 12:21 pm |
| On 26 Apr 2006 04:53:25 -0700, trader4@optonline.net wrote:
>
>Joseph Meehan wrote:
>
>I hope this is a joke. The wire gauge is determined by the amps, not
>the voltage. And 50 gauge wire? LOL
>
50 gauge wire would be hard to see.
[color=darkred]
>In fact, at 240V, this circuit will be drawing half the current as a
>compressor on 120V, which helps, but certainly 10 gauge is too small to
>be supplying a shop with compressor at 150 ft. One wonders what people
>are thinking when they do this. I mean compared to all the labor, the
>cost of right sizing, or even oversizing the cable is mice nuts.
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
| |
| Tony Hwang 2006-04-26, 12:21 pm |
| retiredelectrician64@aol.com wrote:
> On 25 Apr 2006 21:55:59 -0700, "thetiler" <thetiler@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> You are correct. #10 wire is far too small.
> I'd use at least a #50 wire.
>
> Just multiply the wire number by 10 and you get the proper voltage.
> #10 wire is for 100 volts
> #50 wire is for 500 volts.
>
> Use the #50 for maximum power.
>
>
> Retired Electrician
In this case "retired" should be replaced with "retarded", LOL!
| |
|
| Source:
newsfeed.news.ucla.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!pln-w!spln!lex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1:
Obviously from a train engine-ear. Typical of today's crops.
<retiredelectrician64@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5jeu42l7f74hn4ahj79og5e8nsrsbth33d@4ax.com...
> On 25 Apr 2006 21:55:59 -0700, "thetiler" <thetiler@juno.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> You are correct. #10 wire is far too small.
> I'd use at least a #50 wire.
>
> Just multiply the wire number by 10 and you get the proper
> voltage.
> #10 wire is for 100 volts
> #50 wire is for 500 volts.
>
> Use the #50 for maximum power.
>
>
> Retired Electrician
| |
| Toller 2006-04-26, 2:21 pm |
|
"thetiler" <thetiler@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1146027359.041067.224730@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> My friend ran 10-3 wire from his power box to his new workshop
> about 150 away, he says with 10 guage wire. He says it has three
> wires so I assume this is what they call 10-3.
> He wants to buy a 60 gallon, 3 hp compressor, one of those $400
> one's at tractor supply that are 240 volt and push about 10.3cfm
> @90psi.
>
> I'm worried that his wire is not heavy enough. I have (3) 4 guage
> wires
> running to my workshop which will run 75 amps, more than I'll ever
> need.
> He ran his wire before telling me, so it's already buried and done.
>
> His wire looks awful small. I know when I run my portable compressors
> to take out tile in people's homes, they will kick off 15 amp breakers
> all
> the time. I need to find a strong plug like where the washer is
> plugged in.
> I know his larger compressor will demand a lot more juice to kick over
> and run.
>
> Will his 10 guage wire support the proposed compressor, or will
> he ruin the motor on it as I suspect?
> BTW, he is also running many shop lights in the shop, which will
> add to the draw some.
>
I've never seen replies like what you got. Is it an obvious troll that I am
not catching?
Anyhow, he can run 30a at 240v. (or 24a if you consider a compressor a
continuous load, which it might be...) But that should be plenty for a 3hp
motor, which is typically 18a or so. Even if you throw in 6a (1400w!) for
lights, he is still okay.
Obviously you will want to verify it is 10/3, because you can't run 120v
lights and a 240v compressor on 10/2.
But why not check the rating on the compressor to see what it requires?
| |
| gfretwell@aol.com 2006-04-26, 2:21 pm |
| On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:32:02 -0500, Mark Lloyd <mlloyd@xmail.com10>
wrote:
>50 gauge wire would be hard to see.
The initials "RCH" come to mind ;-)
| |
|
| ds549@webtv.net wrote:
i think according to chart he should
> have used 4 number 8 wires to his garage to wire up a new breaker pannel
> ,,and have a 50 amp breaker on it at the house where it connects........
> i think that guy reccomending 50 wire is jokeing.. have wired up several
> garages with 4 #8 wires and have worked well.lucas
>
4 x 8 = 32, obviously the wrong size.
50/4 = 12.5 - you can use #12 or #13 when 4 wires are used
| |
| grover 2006-04-26, 11:21 pm |
| #50 ?
Be careful about what you hear here......
#10 is good for 30 amps - has nothing to do with volts...... There is
no such thing as #50 wire for AC distribution - it would be less than
hair thin!
Perhaps you need an electrician - not a retired one!
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 04:19:46 -0500, retiredelectrician64@aol.com
wrote:
>On 25 Apr 2006 21:55:59 -0700, "thetiler" <thetiler@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
>You are correct. #10 wire is far too small.
>I'd use at least a #50 wire.
>
>Just multiply the wire number by 10 and you get the proper voltage.
>#10 wire is for 100 volts
>#50 wire is for 500 volts.
>
>Use the #50 for maximum power.
>
>
>Retired Electrician
| |
| thetiler 2006-04-27, 1:21 am |
| I will check when I go over there to see whether it is 10-2
or 10-3. A similar compressor at TSC draws 15 amps.
As someone else mentioned...I worry about the long distance
out to the building.
If the wire is 10-3, could another length of 10-3 be run
(will have to re dig the ditch but it would be fresh dirt)
and the two 10-3 wires be joined together in parallel?
thetiler
| |
| thetiler 2006-04-27, 1:21 am |
| The response wasn't even funny either. In my original
question, I mentioned that I had done my own building
with #4 wire which would carry 75 amps, so his
reference to #50 wire makes no sense...perhaps this
is a 15 year old on mommy's computer?
Newsgroup humor is tricky and shouldn't be attempted
by children.
thetiler
| |
| Tony Hwang 2006-04-27, 1:21 am |
| thetiler wrote:
> The response wasn't even funny either. In my original
> question, I mentioned that I had done my own building
> with #4 wire which would carry 75 amps, so his
> reference to #50 wire makes no sense...perhaps this
> is a 15 year old on mommy's computer?
>
> Newsgroup humor is tricky and shouldn't be attempted
> by children.
>
> thetiler
>
Hi,
I never saw 50 guage wire in my life as an EE. It'd be much smaller than
a hear strand
| |
| Tony Hwang 2006-04-27, 1:21 am |
| thetiler wrote:
> I will check when I go over there to see whether it is 10-2
> or 10-3. A similar compressor at TSC draws 15 amps.
> As someone else mentioned...I worry about the long distance
> out to the building.
>
> If the wire is 10-3, could another length of 10-3 be run
> (will have to re dig the ditch but it would be fresh dirt)
> and the two 10-3 wires be joined together in parallel?
>
> thetiler
>
Hi,
Actually 1 Hp is equal to something like 750W.
| |
| djh7097@yahoo.com 2006-04-27, 10:21 am |
| 10ga is good for 9.5hp. He could run TWO of these compressors and still
have enough for 2.5kW of lighting!
| |
| gfretwell@aol.com 2006-04-27, 4:21 pm |
| On 27 Apr 2006 05:35:15 -0700, djh7097@yahoo.com wrote:
>10ga is good for 9.5hp
Explain that.
| |
| Goedjn 2006-04-27, 4:21 pm |
| On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:21:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>On 27 Apr 2006 05:35:15 -0700, djh7097@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
>Explain that.
10 GA <= 30A
240V * 30A = 7200 Watts
Horsepower = Watts * .00134
7200 Watts * .00134 = 9.6+ HP
What's to explain?
| |
| gfretwell@aol.com 2006-04-27, 5:21 pm |
| On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:45:37 -0400, Goedjn <prose@mail.uri.edu> wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:21:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>10 GA <= 30A
>240V * 30A = 7200 Watts
>Horsepower = Watts * .00134
>
>7200 Watts * .00134 = 9.6+ HP
>
>What's to explain?
A nice theoretical assumption
I would like to see a name plate that said FLA was less than 24 amps
(80% of conductor ampacity) before I said that was OK. 24a is a lot
more like the real life draw of a 5HP motor at 240v.
| |
| Mark Lloyd 2006-04-27, 6:21 pm |
| On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:03:29 GMT, Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote:
>thetiler wrote:
>
>Hi,
>I never saw 50 guage wire in my life as an EE. It'd be much smaller than
>a hear strand
I think the smallest I've seen is 44 gauge magnet wire.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
| |
| Steve Barker LT 2006-04-28, 1:21 am |
| You know, what is code and what will work are way apart two different
things. When my dad built our detached (200' away) garage in 1962, I'm sure
he was only thinking lights. As the years went on, we not only had 8 - 40
watt fluorescent bulbs, but also an old 5 hp air compressor, a 200A Hobart
MIG welder, grinders, drop lights, AND an overhead natural gas fired forced
air heater. All the while the garage was wired with 10/3 AND buried. I
remember when we bought the welder, he was skeptical the 10ga would carry
it. But to our surprise, the lights didn't even flicker when using the
welder. So we just left well enough alone. The 10/3 was fed off the main
household panel with a 30A breaker as it should have been and I don't EVER
remember it breaking and needing to be reset.
--
Steve Barker
"thetiler" <thetiler@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1146027359.041067.224730@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> My friend ran 10-3 wire from his power box to his new workshop
> about 150 away, he says with 10 guage wire. He says it has three
> wires so I assume this is what they call 10-3.
> He wants to buy a 60 gallon, 3 hp compressor, one of those $400
> one's at tractor supply that are 240 volt and push about 10.3cfm
> @90psi.
>
> I'm worried that his wire is not heavy enough. I have (3) 4 guage
> wires
> running to my workshop which will run 75 amps, more than I'll ever
> need.
> He ran his wire before telling me, so it's already buried and done.
>
> His wire looks awful small. I know when I run my portable compressors
> to take out tile in people's homes, they will kick off 15 amp breakers
> all
> the time. I need to find a strong plug like where the washer is
> plugged in.
> I know his larger compressor will demand a lot more juice to kick over
> and run.
>
> Will his 10 guage wire support the proposed compressor, or will
> he ruin the motor on it as I suspect?
> BTW, he is also running many shop lights in the shop, which will
> add to the draw some.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> thetiler (not theelectrician)
>
| |
| djh7097@yahoo.com 2006-04-28, 4:21 pm |
| 20% over thoeritical (or 19A) is more typical which still leaves stacks
for his lighting
| |
|
| Your arithmetic is fine, but a typical motor is not 100 percent
efficient--probably less than 90 percent, in these sizes. Second, they
do not run at unity power factor (don't aks me to explain), seems as if
..8 or so for single phase. So--divide amperage by .8, then by .9 for
FL current--but of course it doesn't always run at full load.
Then--the real killer. These motors often draw 2x-3x on start up.
More drop in line, longer to start. May blow your breaker, more likely
just hard on motor. Takes longer to start, more heating, shorter life.
so 7200*.9*.8=5kw.
The real answer is to figure out the ohmic loss in the wire during
start up.
My guess--as someone earlier said, it will probably work, lights will
dim. Once the motor is up to speed--lights will come back up. Bad
practice, false economy. But--you aren't likely to burn down the
house.
Once, not taking my own advice, I ran a 230V 1/3/4 hp well pump off 2X
10Ga at about 900 ft. That is two 10GA direct burial, wired in
parallel. Saw about 10-15V drop. Dumb.
Goedjn wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:21:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> 10 GA <= 30A
> 240V * 30A = 7200 Watts
> Horsepower = Watts * .00134
>
> 7200 Watts * .00134 = 9.6+ HP
>
> What's to explain?
| |
| Larry Bud 2006-04-28, 4:21 pm |
|
thetiler wrote:
> The response wasn't even funny either. In my original
> question, I mentioned that I had done my own building
> with #4 wire which would carry 75 amps, so his
> reference to #50 wire makes no sense...perhaps this
> is a 15 year old on mommy's computer?
Nah, the guy's an electrician. Tradesmen generally hate DIYers.
| |
| Christopher H. Laco 2006-04-28, 5:21 pm |
| thetiler wrote:
> My friend ran 10-3 wire from his power box to his new workshop
> about 150 away, he says with 10 guage wire. He says it has three
> wires so I assume this is what they call 10-3.
> He wants to buy a 60 gallon, 3 hp compressor, one of those $400
> one's at tractor supply that are 240 volt and push about 10.3cfm
> @90psi.
>
> I'm worried that his wire is not heavy enough. I have (3) 4 guage
> wires
> running to my workshop which will run 75 amps, more than I'll ever
> need.
> He ran his wire before telling me, so it's already buried and done.
>
> His wire looks awful small. I know when I run my portable compressors
> to take out tile in people's homes, they will kick off 15 amp breakers
> all
> the time. I need to find a strong plug like where the washer is
> plugged in.
> I know his larger compressor will demand a lot more juice to kick over
> and run.
>
> Will his 10 guage wire support the proposed compressor, or will
> he ruin the motor on it as I suspect?
> BTW, he is also running many shop lights in the shop, which will
> add to the draw some.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> thetiler (not theelectrician)
>
Just for the sake of saying so, when they built my house, they underside
the feed to the garage...why on gods earth people would wire the whole
house with the same gauge, EXCEPT for the feed to the garage is beyond
me. And yes, it barely powers the compressor sometimes, even with a
burst-friendly breaker. Since I don't use it more than once a month, it
has not yet been worth the effort of restring that line.
| |
|
| Totally bogus statement. This newsgroup has over a dozen professional
electricians and a handful of EE's that give helpful advise on a daily basis
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1146251259.553782.162130@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> thetiler wrote:
>
> Nah, the guy's an electrician. Tradesmen generally hate DIYers.
>
| |
| gfretwell@aol.com 2006-04-29, 3:21 pm |
| On 28 Apr 2006 11:17:59 -0700, djh7097@yahoo.com wrote:
>20% over thoeritical (or 19A) is more typical which still leaves stacks
>for his lighting
The theoretical "wattage" of a motor means nothing. You have to use
the name plate FLA rating or use NEC table 430.248 (single phase AC
motor)
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