Home Repair forum - Finish for Front Door

Author

Finish for Front Door

HarryS

2006-04-27, 10:21 am

We have a wood front door with a clear finish. The problem is that the
finish won't stand up to sunlight. The bottom third of the door gets
sunlight but the top two thirds is shaded by the porch roof. About every
three years or so we have to strip the door and reapply the finish because
the lower third had discolored. We'd like to find a clear finish that will
stand up better to ultraviolet. We're in the process of going through the
refinishing process once again and are searching for a clear finish that's
better than all of the ones we've used in the past. Lowe's has a finish
that claims to have 100% more UV blocker but I'm suspecting even that may
not be much better.

Has anyone found a clear finish that stands above the rest when it comes to
exposure to sunlight?

Harry

dadiOH

2006-04-27, 11:21 am

HarryS wrote:
> We have a wood front door with a clear finish. The problem is that
> the finish won't stand up to sunlight. The bottom third of the door
> gets sunlight but the top two thirds is shaded by the porch roof.
> About every three years or so we have to strip the door and reapply
> the finish because the lower third had discolored. We'd like to find
> a clear finish that will stand up better to ultraviolet. We're in
> the process of going through the refinishing process once again and
> are searching for a clear finish that's better than all of the ones
> we've used in the past. Lowe's has a finish that claims to have 100%
> more UV blocker but I'm suspecting even that may not be much better.
>
> Has anyone found a clear finish that stands above the rest when it
> comes to exposure to sunlight?

Count your blessings, three years is very good. Exceptional, in fact,
depending on how many hours of sunlight per day. You would have less
work if you would reapply more frequently, lightly sanding first.

About the best exterior clear finish is a *good* marine spar varnish
(usually around $25/quart). You need to apply 5,6,7 coats initially and
don't let it go to the point of needing to be stripped before re-doing.

I don't understand your comment about the finish discoloring...the
finish shouldn't change much if any in color but the wood itself will.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

HarryS

2006-04-27, 12:21 pm

Well, the wood does tend to change color and requires sanding to return the
entire door to an even color. But, the finish also changes color getting a
whitish appearance. Actually, some finishes we've applied have tended to go
to a yellow color first, then whitish. All of them eventually go to a white
hazy appearance.

Are you saying that spar varnish won't do this?

I would say the door gets about 3 hours of sunlight per day, depending on
the time of year, of course.

I know the problem occurs because clear finishes just can't block out UV
like a well-pigmented opaque finish can. So, the finish manufacturers
include a UV Blocker to reduce the effects of sunlight on the finish.
Apparently, the UV Blockers delay the effects of sunlight, but not for long
in our experience. I just wondered if anyone had found a finish that works
exceptionally well.

Harry

"dadiOH" <dadiOH@wherever.com> wrote in message
news:YW34g.8402$BO2.5233@trnddc02...
> HarryS wrote:
>
> Count your blessings, three years is very good. Exceptional, in fact,
> depending on how many hours of sunlight per day. You would have less
> work if you would reapply more frequently, lightly sanding first.
>
> About the best exterior clear finish is a *good* marine spar varnish
> (usually around $25/quart). You need to apply 5,6,7 coats initially and
> don't let it go to the point of needing to be stripped before re-doing.
>
> I don't understand your comment about the finish discoloring...the
> finish shouldn't change much if any in color but the wood itself will.
>
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>

NickySantoro

2006-04-27, 12:21 pm

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:09:18 -0500, "HarryS"
<herrs4*takeout*@showmepro.com> wrote:

>We have a wood front door with a clear finish. The problem is that the
>finish won't stand up to sunlight. The bottom third of the door gets
>sunlight but the top two thirds is shaded by the porch roof. About every
>three years or so we have to strip the door and reapply the finish because
>the lower third had discolored. We'd like to find a clear finish that will
>stand up better to ultraviolet. We're in the process of going through the
>refinishing process once again and are searching for a clear finish that's
>better than all of the ones we've used in the past. Lowe's has a finish
>that claims to have 100% more UV blocker but I'm suspecting even that may
>not be much better.
>
>Has anyone found a clear finish that stands above the rest when it comes to
>exposure to sunlight?
>
>Harry
>
No. What blocks UV is pigment. The clearer the finish the less
pigment. The less pigment, the less block.

Noozer

2006-04-27, 12:21 pm

>>We have a wood front door with a clear finish. The problem is that the
> No. What blocks UV is pigment. The clearer the finish the less
> pigment. The less pigment, the less block.

Glass doesn't break down in sunlight, so pigment doesn't have to be a
requirement for to stand up to UV exposure. There must be some kind of clear
finish that can be applied that won't break down when exposed to the
elements.

Goedjn

2006-04-27, 1:21 pm

>
>Glass doesn't break down in sunlight, so pigment doesn't have to be a
>requirement for to stand up to UV exposure. There must be some kind of clear
>finish that can be applied that won't break down when exposed to the
>elements.
>
>

An interesting theory, but the available product lines seem to
include nothing that will last for more than about 4 years.

dadiOH

2006-04-27, 1:21 pm

HarryS wrote:
> Well, the wood does tend to change color and requires sanding to
> return the entire door to an even color. But, the finish also
> changes color getting a whitish appearance. Actually, some finishes
> we've applied have tended to go to a yellow color first, then
> whitish. All of them eventually go to a white hazy appearance.

What finish are you using? "White and hazy" sounds like lacquer that
has water damage.
_______________

> Are you saying that spar varnish won't do this?

All finishes - including paint - deteriorate in sunlight but I have
never seen a marine varnish turn white and hazy. It will gradually lose
shine and - if left long enough - start to lift (yellow spots) and get
sort of crumbly. BTW, you *can* get marine varnish without UV
inhibitors. I wouldn't.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

BobK207

2006-04-27, 4:21 pm

HarryS wrote:
> We have a wood front door with a clear finish. The problem is that the
> finish won't stand up to sunlight. The bottom third of the door gets
> sunlight but the top two thirds is shaded by the porch roof. About every
> three years or so we have to strip the door and reapply the finish because
> the lower third had discolored. We'd like to find a clear finish that will
> stand up better to ultraviolet. We're in the process of going through the
> refinishing process once again and are searching for a clear finish that's
> better than all of the ones we've used in the past. Lowe's has a finish
> that claims to have 100% more UV blocker but I'm suspecting even that may
> not be much better.
>
> Has anyone found a clear finish that stands above the rest when it comes to
> exposure to sunlight?
>
> Harry

Clear finsih performance is determined by:
UV blockers
Film thickness
wood prep

One of the best clear finishes for a front door

http://www.fiveyearclear.com/

it's a lot of work but it works

ishttp://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Exterior_Door_Finish.html

cheers
Bob

NickySantoro

2006-04-27, 6:21 pm

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:20:30 -0400, Goedjn <prose@mail.uri.edu> wrote:

>
>
>An interesting theory, but the available product lines seem to
>include nothing that will last for more than about 4 years.

If that....

NickySantoro

2006-04-27, 6:21 pm

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:54:44 GMT, "Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote:

>
>Glass doesn't break down in sunlight, so pigment doesn't have to be a
>requirement for to stand up to UV exposure. There must be some kind of clear
>finish that can be applied that won't break down when exposed to the
>elements.
>
>
Glass isn't an air dried coating. You're attempting to compare apples
to oranges.

PipeDown

2006-04-27, 8:21 pm

"BobK207" <rkazanjy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146163879.220009.103740@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> HarryS wrote:
>
>
> Clear finsih performance is determined by:
> UV blockers
> Film thickness
> wood prep
>
> One of the best clear finishes for a front door
>
> http://www.fiveyearclear.com/
>
> it's a lot of work but it works
>
>
> ishttp://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Exterior_Door_Finish.html
>
>
> cheers
> Bob
>

I wonder how fiberglass resin would stand up. Mind you, I haven't tried
this, just something else besides Polyurethanes to look into.

I wonder if there is a topical coating (like furniture polish) that you
could use regularly to extend the lifetime? Another thing to research on.
I doubt SPF30 lotion would do the trick but that's the idea.

Yahoogle (or Gohoo if you please) on "UV blocking polish" there does seem to
be some products out there that might help.

Norminn

2006-04-27, 9:21 pm

Noozer wrote:
>
>
> Glass doesn't break down in sunlight, so pigment doesn't have to be a
> requirement for to stand up to UV exposure. There must be some kind of clear
> finish that can be applied that won't break down when exposed to the
> elements.
>
>
>
I don't believe the clear finish breaks down as much as the heat and
moisture in the woodgrain - you can get pretty much the same effect with
a wood windowsill exposed to strong sunlight. Hot sun expands the wood
and opens the grain, allowing moisture through the finish that probably
has minute cracks along the grain. I would paint it with light color
paint. If there is a storm door, you might consider a film on the glass
to block some of the sun, along with leaving it open a tad for ventillation.

Noozer

2006-04-28, 3:21 am

>>> No. What blocks UV is pigment. The clearer the finish the less
> Glass isn't an air dried coating. You're attempting to compare apples
> to oranges.

No, I'm simply stating that not everthing will break down when exposed to
UV. With enough money I'm sure someone could come up with a 20year clear
coating.

Of course, then you'd have to wonder who could afford it.

dadiOH

2006-04-28, 11:21 am

Noozer wrote:
>
> No, I'm simply stating that not everthing will break down when
> exposed to UV. With enough money I'm sure someone could come up with
> a 20year clear coating.

Wait long enough and the glass - a super cooled liquid, not a solid -
will crystallize

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH

2006-04-28, 11:21 am

PipeDown wrote:
> "BobK207" <rkazanjy@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1146163879.220009.103740@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> I wonder how fiberglass resin would stand up.

Depends on the resin...epoxy resin starts to break down after a year or
so; polyester takes longer. Both are an absolute XXXXX to apply
initially and to re-do. I speak from experience...

I once did all the bright work on my 42' sailboat with polyester...on
some vertical surfaces I squeeged a sheet of thick mylar on top
(removing after resin set) to get a smooth surface. Worked fairly well
but next to impossible to get *all* the bubbles squeeged out so I
switched to applying multiple coats with a brush after thinning with
styrene then wet sanding and buffing with rubbing compound. Looked
great - for a while - then started disintegrating. I scrapped "modern
marvels" and went back to varnish.
________________

> I wonder if there is a topical coating (like furniture polish) that
> you could use regularly to extend the lifetime?

Yeah...a fresh coat of varnish

Steve

2006-04-29, 11:21 am

I have the same problem on our west-facing church doors. All finishes
will degrade in a few years.

Consider an oil finish. You'd have to strip the doors first, then apply
the oil. You'd still have to maintain the door with a new coat every
year or so, but the total labor would be much less.

"HarryS" <herrs4*takeout*@showmepro.com> wrote in
news:1251gjkatk0u4fb@corp.supernews.com:

> We have a wood front door with a clear finish. The problem is that
> the finish won't stand up to sunlight. The bottom third of the door
> gets sunlight but the top two thirds is shaded by the porch roof.
> About every three years or so we have to strip the door and reapply
> the finish because the lower third had discolored. We'd like to find
> a clear finish that will stand up better to ultraviolet. We're in the
> process of going through the refinishing process once again and are
> searching for a clear finish that's better than all of the ones we've
> used in the past. Lowe's has a finish that claims to have 100% more
> UV blocker but I'm suspecting even that may not be much better.
>
> Has anyone found a clear finish that stands above the rest when it
> comes to exposure to sunlight?
>
> Harry

m Ransley

2006-04-29, 12:21 pm

I used to refinish doors at a cost of 500 - 1500 Ive seen the doors Ive
done in the 80s -90s, they are still holding up after using Pratt and
Lambert Marine Varnish an 80$-90$ a gallon varnish, you can buy in
quarts cheaper. Whatever you use it must be a Marine product and not
aplied on a hot surface, do it after the sun passes on bare wood.

HarryS

2006-04-30, 11:21 am

Were these doors definitely receiving direct sunlight for a substantial
portion of the day? If so, this must be an exceptional finish and worth
looking into.

Harry

"m Ransley" <ransley@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:14902-44537DFB-41@storefull-3133.bay.webtv.net...
> I used to refinish doors at a cost of 500 - 1500 Ive seen the doors Ive
> done in the 80s -90s, they are still holding up after using Pratt and
> Lambert Marine Varnish an 80$-90$ a gallon varnish, you can buy in
> quarts cheaper. Whatever you use it must be a Marine product and not
> aplied on a hot surface, do it after the sun passes on bare wood.
>

m Ransley

2006-04-30, 11:21 am

Yes direct sun, South exposure, on churches, universities, a Frank Loyd
Right and other high quality homes in the chicago area ive done. 750 was
a usual base cost for a trashed out old Oak or Walnut door. Unlesss it
is a Marine product, forget it. The key issue is it must have
flexibility and UV stability, Polys are to hard, possibly even Marine
Poly. Contact a high quality boat maker, boat service yard, or boating
supply that handles wood boats, not just fiberglass at a local shop.
Aplication is critical as wood needs to be bare, cool, and not to be
heated in direct sun for many hours, often evening is best after sun has
passed for aplication. Sure you pay for P&L, but a quart can do most
doors and more than pay you back in its longevity.

LinkBot